Season 4 Finale : HAVE read the books - spoilers possible

Witcher · 16-06-2014 3:46pm

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Also, what's with all the wraiths outside the three eyed raven's home? This is the same in the books afaik, but you'd think someone would have got rid of them at some stage.

I don't think BR gets many visitors so it's never been a priority:pac:

Daith · 16-06-2014 3:48pm

Blay wrote: »

I don't think BR gets many visitors so it's never been a priority:pac:

Plus he wanted Jojen to die to make into weirwood paste.....

Witcher · 16-06-2014 3:49pm

Daith wrote: »

Plus he wanted Jojen to die to make into weirwood paste.....

There's Jojen paste all over the north now:pac:

Daith · 16-06-2014 3:52pm

Blay wrote: »

There's Jojen paste all over the north now:pac:

Was just a glamour. Not a real explosion or did the show ruin another book reader's wild theory?

Witcher · 16-06-2014 3:53pm

Daith wrote: »

Was just a glamour. Not a real explosion or did the show ruin another book reader's wild theory?

I think Meera cut his throat before she left him. They blew up his body to stop him becoming a wight.

GerB40 · 16-06-2014 4:00pm

Daith wrote: »

Plus he wanted Jojen to die to make into weirwood paste.....

Well we can't have Brannibal now because Jojen is a pile of ash. It's a shame, I liked that theory..

Daith · 16-06-2014 4:04pm

GerB40 wrote: »

Well we can't have Brannibal now because Jojen is a pile of ash. It's a shame, I liked that theory..

GRRM kills characters that you like.

The TV Show kills theories that you like!

Liam O · 16-06-2014 4:30pm

Blay wrote: »

Aw say it ain't so Liam O?:pac:

I suppose here is still better, I'd miss you moaning about every scene of every episode if I went over there:pac:

If you've a problem with the discussion start a new one. Moaning eh? Good way to blanket discredit criticism. I've been quite complimentary of recent episodes. This one was poorly adapted.

Witcher · 16-06-2014 4:38pm

Liam O wrote: »

If you've a problem with the discussion start a new one. Moaning eh? Good way to blanket discredit criticism. I've been quite complimentary of recent episodes. This one was poorly adapted.

When you're criticising everything and anything you lose credibility. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion, you most certainly are no matter what it is.

username123 · 16-06-2014 4:54pm

Liam O wrote: »

If you've a problem with the discussion start a new one. Moaning eh? Good way to blanket discredit criticism. I've been quite complimentary of recent episodes. This one was poorly adapted.

Youre joking right? I suggest you go back and read your own posts, you are negative about every single episode. I dont want to go quoting all your negativity from other episode threads, but its there. Its as though you dont like the show at all.

Liam O · 16-06-2014 5:09pm

username123 wrote: »

Youre joking right? I suggest you go back and read your own posts, you are negative about every single episode. I dont want to go quoting all your negativity from other episode threads, but its there. Its as though you dont like the show at all.

The show has so much more potential than they are showing. When they have the right director they can do great things, the problem is that they spend time with ridiculous things like Grey Worm and Missandei among other pointless stories rather than give more time to big scenes like Oberyn and Clegane. I think I've said I don't really like the show on multiple occasions so not sure what that has to do with it. It's a collection of great scenes and casting around some terrible acting and structure most weeks. When they get it right it's amazing but it's few and far between.

MacBizzle · 16-06-2014 5:20pm

Liam O wrote: »

The show has so much more potential than they are showing. When they have the right director they can do great things, the problem is that they spend time with ridiculous things like Grey Worm and Missandei among other pointless stories rather than give more time to big scenes like Oberyn and Clegane. I think I've said I don't really like the show on multiple occasions so not sure what that has to do with it. It's a collection of great scenes and casting around some terrible acting and structure most weeks. When they get it right it's amazing but it's few and far between.

You sound like you just want the show to be the books, which isn't what they're trying to do,

GerB40 · 16-06-2014 5:26pm

I assume that, because Varys left with Tyrion, we won't be seeing Illyrio (or whatever his name is) in Essos. Perhaps Varys will take his place and we'll get some of his back story, especially seeing as they're going to where Varys became "the spider".
Plus we'll have two of the most intelligent characters together trying to make the most of their new situations which sounds far more interesting than how it transpires in the book.
That does leave the whole Kevan Lannister thing though but that'll probably be changed too..

username123 · 16-06-2014 5:27pm

Liam O wrote: »

The show has so much more potential than they are showing. When they have the right director they can do great things, the problem is that they spend time with ridiculous things like Grey Worm and Missandei among other pointless stories rather than give more time to big scenes like Oberyn and Clegane. I think I've said I don't really like the show on multiple occasions so not sure what that has to do with it. It's a collection of great scenes and casting around some terrible acting and structure most weeks. When they get it right it's amazing but it's few and far between.

I agree there is some dross, but the show is not meant to be the same as the books. It's playing for a non book reading audience too. Already many non book readers think there are too many characters on screen while us book readers are missing small characters like Strong Belwas.

I honestly cannot agree with you re terrible acting. Who?

MacBizzle · 16-06-2014 5:28pm

username123 wrote: »

I agree there is some dross, but the show is not meant to be the same as the books. It's playing for a non book reading audience too. Already many non book readers think there are too many characters on screen while us book readers are missing small characters like Strong Belwas.

I honestly cannot agree with you re terrible acting. Who?

DANY. Jesus, I could do a better job.

Witcher · 16-06-2014 5:28pm

Alex Graves on LS and the Hound

Looks like she's not going to appear at all.

Liam O · 16-06-2014 5:37pm

username123 wrote: »

I agree there is some dross, but the show is not meant to be the same as the books. It's playing for a non book reading audience too. Already many non book readers think there are too many characters on screen while us book readers are missing small characters like Strong Belwas.

I honestly cannot agree with you re terrible acting. Who?

Dany and Shae this season bring down the quality of every scene they're in. Bran is quite annoyingly acted even though I like the character. I think the show is acted well in general but some baffling decisions such as putting ex porn stars in lets it down hugely. Kit Harrington is very up and down too.

Liam O · 16-06-2014 5:44pm

MacBizzle wrote: »

You sound like you just want the show to be the books, which isn't what they're trying to do,

I don't. Last week's ep was as different to the books as could be and I thought it was brilliantly adapted. This week's was poorly done, they rushed through so many storylines with great potential. I've always maintained the show if on any other network would be 2-5 episodes a season longer which they could really do with rather than cramming so much into episodes that are for some reason normally 50 minutes these days.

GerB40 · 16-06-2014 5:47pm

Blay wrote: »

Alex Graves on LS and the Hound

Looks like she's not going to appear at all.

I don't see it that way. He basically said that, to his knowledge, LS won't be appearing. But he isn't a writer, he's a director. Which means he can only work with the story D&D give him. He even makes a point of reminding the interviewer how secretive the writers are so he obviously can't tell whether or not they're keeping her in the show.
If she's irrelevant to the story as a whole they probably will cut her out. If she's relevant to the story down the line they might be keeping her up their sleeves until she matters.
Although the longer LS doesn't appear, the less believable her appearance will be but this is fantasy after all.

Witcher · 16-06-2014 5:53pm

GerB40 wrote: »

I don't see it that way. He basically said that, to his knowledge, LS won't be appearing. But he isn't a writer, he's a director. Which means he can only work with the story D&D give him.

He still has a lot of insight into how they want the series to run/play out. He has to know how they want things to flow so he can direct episodes. He's giving as definite a no as we have seen thus far.

I think this quote sums up how LS is seen within the context of D&D's show;

But to bring back Michelle Fairley, one of the greatest actresses around, to be a zombie for a little while — and just kill people? It is really sort of, what are we doing with that? How does it play into the whole story in a way that we’re really going to like?

I think they're trying to tone down some of the fantasy elements within the story; CH for example. LS will be a casualty of their stylistic direction I think. If they wanted her in they would have made time this season and had her in for the cliffhanger.

rawn · 16-06-2014 5:59pm

I'm actually shocked that so many people dislike Emilia Clarke's acting. I think she is one of the strongest actors in the series, her voice carries so much strength and I feel she portrays emotions in a more complex and believable manner than most of the other actors!

Witcher · 16-06-2014 6:00pm

rawn wrote: »

I'm actually shocked that so many people dislike Emilia Clarke's acting. I think she is one of the strongest actors in the series, her voice carries so much strength and I feel she portrays emotions in a more complex and believable manner than most of the other actors!

The only time her voice has any strength is when she's speaking Valyrian, the rest of the time she speaks in a monotone, half bored way.

GerB40 · 16-06-2014 6:00pm

Liam O wrote: »

Dany and Shae this season bring down the quality of every scene they're in. Bran is quite annoyingly acted even though I like the character. I think the show is acted well in general but some baffling decisions such as putting ex porn stars in lets it down hugely. Kit Harrington is very up and down too.

Dany, fair enough I won't argue with you there. She's certainly not the worst actor I've seen but the quality of acting on this show is so high that she does seem a bit amateur in comparison.
Shea, I can't complain about her acting. She's done what was asked of her and any complaints I would have would be with how her scenes were written.
The same can be said about Bran. He did as well as any actor could with the little screen time he had.
Before this season I would have agreed with you regarding Kit Harrington but he was excellent this season. It was his time to shine and he acted accordingly.
Of all the reasons people can criticise Game of Thrones, acting definitely isn't one of them.

Iwasfrozen · 16-06-2014 6:02pm

GerB40 wrote: »

I don't see it that way. He basically said that, to his knowledge, LS won't be appearing. But he isn't a writer, he's a director. Which means he can only work with the story D&D give him. He even makes a point of reminding the interviewer how secretive the writers are so he obviously can't tell whether or not they're keeping her in the show.
If she's irrelevant to the story as a whole they probably will cut her out. If she's relevant to the story down the line they might be keeping her up their sleeves until she matters.
Although the longer LS doesn't appear, the less believable her appearance will be but this is fantasy after all.

What's the point of adapting the books at all if you leave out cool characters?

GerB40 · 16-06-2014 6:35pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What's the point of adapting the books at all if you leave out cool characters?

I totally agree. After the red wedding, the Lady Stoneheart reveal was what I was looking forward to seeing the most. Even though she doesn't do an awful lot that initial shock just blew me the fúck away..
Realistically though, money restraints and more importantly time restraints make it difficult to fit her into a ten episode season.
We actually see her only twice that I remember, and most of the mentions of her are off the cuff remarks that only serve to remind the readers that she even exists.
Rumours of a mad lady leading the Brotherhood without banners are grand in a 600+ page book but next to impossible in the show unless she actually contributes to the story.
I really do hope she's important but I'm starting to get the feeling she ain't..

Awesomeness · 16-06-2014 6:56pm

As a tv show I thought that was awesome. But as a book reader I am very pissed.

Jojen dying was fine - dont like him in the books anyway but got my hopes up for coldhands. Brans story is too far ahead and heading in to unreleased books.

Brienne beating the hound annoyed me though I thought it was well done. No val or dalla. No LS.

And no tysha mention bit the cake. That tywin scene just seemed so boring and no shock or emotion to it compared to the books.

Again as a tv show awesome but i dont think i can enjoy this show anymore until after all the books are done

OneOfThem Stumbled · 16-06-2014 6:57pm

Unlike others I'm not a total purist about LS or Coldhands.

I think zombification as a plot device can only go so far.

The introduction of LS in the fist place always felt like a... little bit... of a cop out by GRRM. If you are going to kill a character, kill them; if not, don't. The only real purpose that LS serves is for revenge against the Freys. That, and the continued war in the Riverlands was really quite cool.

I haven't a clue where the war is atm in the series. Is Riverrun captured? Are the Brotherhood Without Banners Disbanded? Are the Ironborn doing... anything? Did Stannis lose Storm's End?

I mean, the war is kind of a big deal. Certainly more so than Jamie and Cersei's tempestuous romance.

Why introduce the Brotherhood Without Banners, and Beric Dondarrion, and all the rest, if you're gonna do nothing with it? Same deal with Tyrion's back story. Did they suddenly just say "ah nah, the viewers will have forgotten that stuff" and rip it out?

Iwasfrozen · 16-06-2014 7:25pm

GerB40 wrote: »

I totally agree. After the red wedding, the Lady Stoneheart reveal was what I was looking forward to seeing the most. Even though she doesn't do an awful lot that initial shock just blew me the fúck away..
Realistically though, money restraints and more importantly time restraints make it difficult to fit her into a ten episode season.
We actually see her only twice that I remember, and most of the mentions of her are off the cuff remarks that only serve to remind the readers that she even exists.
Rumours of a mad lady leading the Brotherhood without banners are grand in a 600+ page book but next to impossible in the show unless she actually contributes to the story.
I really do hope she's important but I'm starting to get the feeling she ain't..

She contributes to the story alright, Brienne's arc wouldn't be complete without her. I mean is Brienne suddenly going to decide to kill Jaime on her own?

But even if she didn't contribute to the story overall the rule of cool should be enough to see her in the show, otherwise what's the point of adapting the books at all if not for the sheer enjoyment of the viewers?

podgemonster · 16-06-2014 7:27pm

Well I thoroughly enjoyed that episode, the lack of LS was disappointing but I trust in D&D and what they have planned for season 5.

My guess is the Riverlands will be a major focus for next year and it's best to do it properly with a proper cast of bandits rather than bringing them on and for the sake of a 5 minute jaw dropper that'll be almost as effective in S5E1.

Bar S2 the show does like to end on a high and Arya smiling on a ship was a sweet moment. Firstly the Mannis bit was excellent, the size of the charge, the flashing of the banners, 2 men in the mist emerging. Wonderful. Poweful. Stannis.

I never tire of Hodor going apeshít, show went full fantasy there in that bit could be a sign of things in TWOW.

Cersei really rattled Tywin, he was more uncomfortable there than in the privy scene. Dance has been a tour de force from his first scene to his last I will miss him, we all will. As for the Tysha thing well if would never have worked. Even reading the illiterate thread they get confused over the smallest of things, bringing up a conversation from S1 would have melted their heads, it had to be about Shae in the end. Unfortunately necessary.

What wasn't necessary but freaking unreal was Brienne v. The Hound. That was a vicious fight, so much aggression. An amoured warriors just kicked a lady full for in the fanny and she does a Mike Tyson on him. The backdrop for the Arya scenes were incredible. The valley where the hound lay dying to the shore along where Arya rides to her boat. Beautiful

Did you know that one episode of Game of thrones is cheaper to make than an episode of Friends in its final season due to the demands of the leads. HBO are producing the most lavish expansive and well crafted series I have ever seen or possibly will ever. It's not perfect mind or totally in step in the books but I know I will be a little sadder next week when I don't see those epic opening credits.

A Great Season
#BringBackJoff

Iwasfrozen · 16-06-2014 7:28pm

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Unlike others I'm not a total purist about LS or Coldhands.

I think zombification as a plot device can only go so far.

The introduction of LS in the fist place always felt like a... little bit... of a cop out by GRRM. If you are going to kill a character, kill them; if not, don't. The only real purpose that LS serves is for revenge against the Freys. That, and the continued war in the Riverlands was really quite cool.

I haven't a clue where the war is atm in the series. Is Riverrun captured? Are the Brotherhood Without Banners Disbanded? Are the Ironborn doing... anything? Did Stannis lose Storm's End?

I mean, the war is kind of a big deal. Certainly more so than Jamie and Cersei's tempestuous romance.

Why introduce the Brotherhood Without Banners, and Beric Dondarrion, and all the rest, if you're gonna do nothing with it? Same deal with Tyrion's back story. Did they suddenly just say "ah nah, the viewers will have forgotten that stuff" and rip it out?

The beautiful thing about Lady Stoneheart is she is revenge personified. The North remembers and the Frey's severely wronged the Starks so now Lady Stoneheart is taking her revenge on anyone even loosely connected to Walder.

Season 4 Finale : HAVE read the books - spoilers possible

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