Dublin Bus Mythbuster

s8080 wrote: »

I'm starting to think you're probably enjoy being a martyr, you have been told how to avoid being overcharged but cant be bothered.
some people love complaining, woe betide me, why me,
sure posters still come on here to bitch about dublin bus raising fares, when its pointed out to them the NTA set the fares they go quite.
the dart stopped working ,posters bitch about dublin bus not putting on extra buses, when pointed out to them that can’t without the permission of the NTA they go quite

Not once have i claimed drivers are perfect, but when i point out that your anger is directed at the wrong target, posters can’t accept it
Everything posters bitch about here has a explanation, when you are told the truth some can’t accept it and have a hissy fit.
Ask your questions and i will answer them truthfully, press pause on your hatred towards dublin bus and read the answer i give you, then you might be able to accept the answer

Problem is you come on promising to explode myths and answer questions, and you're just avoiding answering questions or making up irrelevant edge cases.

I've often seen buses go past "full" with a couple of people standing downstairs, your response is to go on a rant about letters of complaint when people are asked to move upstairs, and then start talking about people in wheelchairs not being able to see if there's another wheelchair user on the bus. That's got absolutely nothing to do with it. For all I know there may be times when a driver's been directed not to stop - I'm just trying to find out if this is ossibly the case.

Then when I ask why somewhere between 10 and 20% of buses I get have the ticket machine set incorrectly, you start blaming me and calling me a martyr instead of answering the question. You also seem to be missing the point that even if I tell the driver every time it happens, everybody else who's already on the bus has the wrong ticket. Fortunately, other more helpful posters like AlekSmart are able to explain in a straightforward, coherent manner that there are in fact valid reasons why this can happen so often.

I said the vast majority of Dublin Bus drivers seem to be amiable people doing a good job, and you tell me to "press pause on my hatred for Dublin Bus".

I haven't seen you bust a single myth yet. Here, I'll give you one more go, because I genuinely don't know about this one:
If ticket machines are regularly incorrectly set, showing the bus as being at an earlier stage than it actually is, then a passenger boarding and asking for a ticket to a particular destination is going to be overcharged as a result.

cdebru wrote: »

A lot of the cash boxes the money falls straight through, some have no lights so the driver can't see the money, sometimes coins fall behind each other, so all he sees is a 2 euro coin, sometimes people through the money in as the machine is dropping the previous fare so it disappears sometimes the machine gets stuck so fares go on top of each other, so in answer don't be an arse, if you pop in 2.50 for a 2.35 just say it, then the driver knows you want a change ticket and how much you paid.

You see the other problem is a large percentage just Dont want a change ticket, so the driver prints one, the passenger walks off and the next passenger grabs the change ticket instead of their ticket and it all gets confusing.

A very valid point here,and one which points to a Flat Fare being the most reasonable approach to ending the absymally long Dwell Times on Dublin Bus Services.

It is now generally accepted (even if off-the-record) that the 2001 Wayfarer TGX150 has reached the limits of it's effectivity for BAC/NTA use.

The architecture of the machine imposes limitations upon what it can physically perform versus the tasks which are now imposed upon it.

The choice is between attempting to Life-Extend the TGX150 by means of Software Updates and Leapcard Tweaks OR to transfer completely to newer "fit for purpose" systems from either Wayfarer or one of the many other suppliers active in the sector.

The abolition of Cash Transactions is now an inevitability IMO,with large numbers of customers dropping in the excess amount and walking away,even in some cases telling a driver to "Keep the change !!".

Many Customers are of the impression that the Drop Safe incorporates a coin counter or that the Driver counts each amount...neither being true.

If I am challenged,I will remind customers that I CAN,if desired,count each amount,but as I would have to do this for every customer the journey time would increase significantly.

IF a Customer is concerned about their change ticket,I would recommend making it obvious to the driver,before or during the drop,that you are overpaying..a millisecond delay as you display the €2.50 or whatever is all it takes to allow a Driver to pre-enter that amount,thus automatically generating a change-ticket.

The Fare-Stage system we continue to operate in Dublin,belongs to an era long gone,a time when Conductors roamed the streets,each with the time and focus to delve individually into each individual customers requirements....that time is no longer available to a Busdriver tasked with operating in a modern urban environment,even more so when it is compromised by large scale disruptions such as LUAS BXD work.

The situation,for example,currently on display in O Connell St,whereby the ONLY DublinBus-Route (16) serving our International Airport is located adjacent to some of the most restrictive parts of the BXD road restrictions,yet it's Drivers are fully expected to peform the duties so rendolent of the 1950's Conductor as if nothing was amiss...FFS..The surrounding streetscape is more akin to the surface of Mars yet nobody even considered it slightly desirable to have a ticket-vending machine/operative at the Stop...just to give the Driver a sporting chance and the Customer an opportunity of a faster and smoother boarding experience....Would it be worthwhile ?....I say YES !...The Authorities (There are MANY of these) all go...."HMMmmmm....we don't really think so.... )

Off topic...?......NO it's not,as it cuts to the chase of what is so urgently required in Dublins Public Transport...FAR LOWER DWELL TIMES (Change required or NOT)

s8080 wrote: »

the two modern wonders of GPS tracking and CCTV have resulted in the vast majority of complaints put in about driver been dismissed straight away.

It' like drawing teeth - what about the other 2 questions?

And I'll add one - how do you know about the complaints from different garages and head office?

s8080 wrote: »

there is a large canteen in city centre where drivers from all the depots meet, drivers transfer between depots , drivers have friends in other depots, drivers talk to each other, depots are not at war with each other.

Well you don't want to answer all my questions and the answers provided can be summed up in "my mate told me", with not once piece of evidence to back up your claims.

This is not a mythbuster thread, it's a myth creator thread, creating myth about the NTA, DB management and passengers.

It seems to me you would have a great job if there were no passengers.

s8080 wrote: »

i will answer any question asked, your problem is you don’t like the answer.

why would a bus with room pass you by at a stop?
you could be drinking beer at the stop, you could have cause problems on the bus before, the word could have been put out on the radio “ do not pick up the passenger at stop xxx, they are trouble”
Does this answers satisfy?

No, actually, none of those answers are satisfactory explanations for why I've stood with other passengers at rush hour going to work while buses failed to stop with no more two or three passengers standing. I will concede that sometime we fail to all hide our collective beer in time and this may be a factor. And I admit it is possible I have caused problems on a bus before by pointing out to a driver that his ticket machine is incorrectly set, which is obviously such a rare event as to have a passenger blacklisted for life.

as you seem to notice the ticket machine is not set correctly, why don’t you inform the driver?
if you are in a supermarket and a item scans the wrong price at the check out, do you tell the check out operator or bite your lip and come on here bitching about being over charged in the supermarket?

you ask if the machine is set wrong are passengers being over charged?
the answer is NO.
the simple fact is the driver has issued tens of thousand of tickets, when a passenger gets on at stop A and ask for fare to stop B the driver don’t even look at the ticket machine, they know how much it costs and press the button.
No one is getting ripped off.

Happy now?

Thank you so much. You've finally actually answered a question. I was uncertain as to whether a driver keys a destination code into the ticket machine and the machine decides the fare, or it's based on the driver's knowledge. I'm genuinely relieved to know that the driver determines the fare, and my fellow passengers are not being overcharged.

It actually makes no difference to me, since I just state the correct fare and pay that rather than a destination. I realise this is against standard Dublin Bus practice, but it has become a habit, which I apologise for. Perhaps this minor act of rebellion partly explains why I've been left standing at the stop by "full" buses. I should probably stand at a stop on my own to avoid dragging other passengers down with me.

As to your other question, if I'm overcharged in the supermarket I would usually go back and take advantage of Tesco's "double the difference" guarantee. Unfortunately, it's never happened to me, so my net gain there is zero.
I have occasionally pointed out to drivers that their machines are incorrectly set. While their response has been generally positive, it takes me a while to get going in the morning and I frequently forget to check. For this I bear full responsibility. I also dislike confrontation and, especially if the stop is busy, I am reluctant to delay boarding further by arguing over my ticket. I feel most drivers appreciate this, as the delay due to the time it takes for the ticket machine to switch over to Leap mode is bad enough for all parties concerned, without some idiot passenger moaning about incorrect stage settings.

I apologise for my spinelessness. I will in future refuse to be a victim. If I am ever again faced with a choice between quietly paying the correct fare or refusing to let the bus move until the ticket machine has been corrected, and all previous passengers have been issued correct tickets, I hereby resolve to do the right thing, even if I lack Dutch courage from my bus-stop beer-swilling.

Thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedule to engage in mythbusting for us unenlightened folk. If I may ask a final question, are you the one with the glasses or the beret?

s8080 wrote: »

if you don’t want to believe me don’t.
the fact is the workings of dublin bus are your hobby, you are probably one of these guys we see at the side of the street taking photos of buses and copying down the licence plate number in a note book. if this is what makes you happy i wish you all the best.

you come on here and share your knowledge of dublin bus, most of this knowledge is easily obtained on the dublin bus web site, i.e. time tables and which bus goes where.

then you have me and other drivers who have posted here, giving you info that no member of the public would ever know unless we told you.
when you don’t agree with what we state you dismiss it, i have zero reason to lie

Please don't personalise posts.

Moderator

Dear s8080

Do you have any idea why stops in Dublin are so close together? I have never been in a city where they are so close, in some cases less than 150m. Would drivers prefer if stops were spaced further apart?

As passenger I would prefer if there were less of them. I would have slightly longer to walk at the start of my journey but there would be less jolting and I would get there faster as there would be less stops.

Is this something that drivers have strong views on?

AlekSmart wrote: »

In an attempt to address MOH's comment regarding Stage Updating,I'll give my own experiences.

The main reason for it happening so often is startingly simple.

STAGES ARE NOT PHYSICALLY MARKED ONSTREET.

The simple expedient of re-applying the stage marking which were comprehensively removed nearly a decade ago would solve the vast majority of the problem.

Why any Company purporting to utilize a Fare-Stage based system decided to remove the Stage Markings remains a total mystery,but remove them they did,with great dedication and perseverance.

This low-tech regressive act resulted in Customers & Staff alike being pitted against each other in an arcane test of route and stop knowledge that has lasted the decade since.

Why...?.....I have no idea,however it pre-dates the NTA so they can push their chests out and tut-tut to infinity.

Following the Stage Marking removal,it was then down to individual drivers (and customers) dedication and route knowledge as to where individual stages were located.

The simplicity of updating the Stages,is perversely,one of the reasons for it occuring so often...It is,by far,the easiest element of Ticket Machine Operation to forget in the heat of a driving day/night.
Added to this is the fact that the stage number is the same size as the remainder of the numbers which appear on the TIM Screen,which makes it less easy for a driver to spot the error until too late.

Making the Stage Number a larger size and placing it centrally on the TIM screen would have added to its conspicuity,but that never occured either.

All of the above is,of course,easier to deal with when one is paying cash and can check their ticket immediately by reading the printed information (IF you get a wrongly staged ticket,SHOW It to the Driver IMMEDIATELY,as it must be annuled before the following customer is ticketed)

Leapcard's present a slightly different case,as the ONLY method the customer has of checking is the TIM display which is quite momentary,so a sharp lookout is required.

If a Leapcard user does spot a misfare,then the transaction can be annulled within a two-minute window.(Irrespective of folowing transactions).

The good news is that in early 2015,Automatic Stage Updating (via GPS) will be implemented,thus ending over a decade of undesirable uncertainty and avoidable unpleasantness...;)

Meanwhile,it is worthwhile taking the time to check out the Fare Calculator Tab on www.dublinbus.ie, ,currently the ONLY place one can cross reference the Stage Number with the actual Bus-Stop Number (Be warned however,some discrepancies may still be found :eek:)

Sorry. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
You're not telling me that in order for the information on ticket machines to be correct, the driver must MANUALLY input his location at every stage? Seriously?

AlekSmart wrote: »

In an attempt to address MOH's comment regarding Stage Updating,I'll give my own experiences.

The main reason for it happening so often is startingly simple.

STAGES ARE NOT PHYSICALLY MARKED ONSTREET.

The simple expedient of re-applying the stage marking which were comprehensively removed nearly a decade ago would solve the vast majority of the problem.

Why any Company purporting to utilize a Fare-Stage based system decided to remove the Stage Markings remains a total mystery,but remove them they did,with great dedication and perseverance.

This is very interesting.

So, theoretically, if one was challenged by an inspector for staying four stages on a 1-3 stage ticket, would one really be liable for a fine? Particularly on a leap cards where the destination is displayed on a hard-to-read screen for a few seconds.

One could very easily make the point that you stated your destination, and were charged for a 1-3 stage journey. Given that there are close to zero ways for a passenger to know anything about the stage system and correct a driver error, can a passenger ever be in the wrong?