Households must pay for water meters.

15-04-2012 2:45pm

Icepick wrote: »

Water is a product similar to electricity and gas and should have been charged directly a long time ago.

You can live without electricity and gas if you want to. You can't live without water. I think it's disgusting to charge for water and it's typical of a American-style capitalist system where "if you can't pay for it you can't have it" regardless of how essential it might be.

Freddie59 · 15-04-2012 2:45pm

Stinicker wrote: »

Water = Life, so pay up or die, yes nice idealogy, NeoCon America called its wants its ideology back. Plus it is Ireland its rains practically non-stop and we have more than our fair share of rainfall, it is another stealth tax to bailout the Fianna Fail gamblers I won't be paying.

Water is paid for out of general taxation, and we pay too much of this already, I swear it is if the Government has went and gone Ryanair on the whole country, every little thing is a separate charge now.

And all being propped up by a "socialist" party.......

Stinicker · 15-04-2012 2:53pm

Karsini wrote: »

You can live without electricity and gas if you want to. You can't live without water. I think it's disgusting to charge for water and it's typical of a American-style capitalist system where "if you can't pay for it you can't have it" regardless of how essential it might be.

Ironically true American Capitalism is a far superior system to what we are subjected to what I would call Cronie-Capital-Socialism, basically socialism for the wealthy where failure is rewarded massively and dog eat dog capitalism for the people where you can have nothing for free and have to pay through the nose for every single thing. No wonder so many people live off the state, I can't blame them when you see how corrupt Ireland is.

Many people have alot of hate for George W. Bush and rightly so however I will admire him for letting Lehman brothers fail, he stood by and did nothing and left the business fail, that was true capitalism where the state should not interfere.

If a small business gets in trouble there is no help or rescue, similarly for the self employed who cannot even draw welfare, however if you are a large multi-billion bank or corporation it is bailouts all round, slaps on the back, a huge bonus rewarding failure and mass theft and then brandys and cigars afterwards in the ol'd bhoys club with whatever crooked politician you have bribed out.

lugha · 15-04-2012 2:56pm

Karsini wrote: »

You can't live without water.

Should food be free also?

I certainly think that people should have the choice not to be supplied with water if they want to source it themselves.

Biggins · 15-04-2012 2:56pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

And all being propped up by a "socialist" party.......

:pac:

Socialist? :pac:

The founding members of Labour have turned over in their graves months ago with the antics of the current lot of two-faced traitors to the very people they are supposed to be also representing.

Morag · 15-04-2012 2:58pm

They will be told to get the hell off my property.

The_Thing · 15-04-2012 2:58pm

As soon as the metering infrastructure is in place the Government traitors will auction it off to the highest bidder and the money raised from the sale will go to the bond-holders.

FG \ Labour should be drowned in barrels full of their own piss.

woodoo · 15-04-2012 3:01pm

So fast forward 3 years and your average family will be paying €1000 property tax, €500 motor tax €300 water tax. Still having to pay for their own bin collection.

awec · 15-04-2012 3:03pm

I wonder when they bring in these water charges, will whatever tax I pay now for my water be reduced accordingly, or in reality am I going to just be paying for my water twice. :rolleyes:

Because you can be damn sure you're not getting free water now!

Biggins · 15-04-2012 3:03pm

The_Thing wrote: »

...FG \ Labour should be drowned in barrels full of their own piss.

Shush, they will charge us for that too.

woodoo · 15-04-2012 3:09pm

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

No I think it's that new builds can easily accommodate a water metre. It was explained to me when we bought our house that it was almost a matter of just bolting a metre into the point which incidentally is just outside my front gate rather than inside the property such as it is in my parents home.

Someone was obviously thinking ahead.

And i wonder will the €300 be for every house regardless. Basically making the new build people subsidise the work needed on older houses. Even though the older houses benefited from cheaper housing, stamp duty and development charges. This whole charade has the makings of finally bring the people to the streets.

Naomi00 · 15-04-2012 3:28pm

Icepick wrote: »

Water is a product similar to electricity and gas and should have been charged directly a long time ago.

Only if you are getting a proper product, the electricity and gas people buy generally works as it is supposed to. The water system in Ireland is full of flaws, and judging from the general trend in this country I highly doubt the money collected from water charges will go back into fixing the pipe system and on improving the quality of the water, more likely will be wasted on something stupid.

Biggins · 15-04-2012 3:32pm

woodoo wrote: »

...This whole charade has the makings of finally bring the people to the streets.

There are many on the streets. 2,000+ yesterday in Galway alone.
Sadly, the rest of the country won't join them.
They are too complacent still like good little obeying farm animals, jumping up and coughing up when political masters says so.

Till Ireland finally kops itself on, gets off its sofa's, its barstools and away from the Pravda style RTE news broadcasts, the status quo will continue.

I can dress the above previous words in nice polite wording of fancy light political correctness but the time for being polite has passed.
A good lot in Ireland needs some brunt home truths to be told to them!

Am Chile · 15-04-2012 3:42pm

Biggins wrote: »

There are many on the streets. 2,000+ yesterday in Galway alone.
Sadly, the rest of the country won't join them.
They are too complacent still like good little obeying farm animals, jumping up and coughing up when political masters says so.

Till Ireland finally kops itself on, gets off its sofa's, its barstools and away from the Pravda style RTE news broadcasts, the status quo will continue.

I can dress the above previous words in nice polite wording of fancy light political correctness but the time for being polite has passed.
A good lot in Ireland needs some brunt home truths to be told to them!

I was there at yesterdays march, rte said 4.000 + were there yesterday meaning there was more given rte have dressed down numbers at other protests, More people will take to the streets now.

shedweller · 15-04-2012 3:47pm

Will this meter malarkey apply to someone with a well?
Anyway, i currently spend everything i earn. So i'll have to cut spending in the local economy to pay these new taxes.
Do the powers that be really want to break this country?
Is it part of a bigger plan?

woodoo · 15-04-2012 3:51pm

shedweller wrote: »

Will this meter malarkey apply to someone with a well?

Throw Hogan down the well.

Biggins · 15-04-2012 3:53pm

Am Chile wrote: »

I was there at yesterdays march, rte said 4.000 + were there yesterday meaning there was more given rte have dressed down numbers at other protests, More people will take to the streets now.

I only hope and prey they do.
Its not before time.

shedweller · 15-04-2012 3:56pm

Cue the slick propaganda machine.......

dj jarvis · 15-04-2012 3:56pm

me ..... i have had enough

i will be pushing for a no vote on the treaty in may.

they can stick the household charge and water meter charge up their collective thieving political arses

since the last shower of bastards hung us up to dry this lot have been pulling on our ankles to make sure we are dead

income tax up - USC up - Motor tax up - motor fuel up , house heating up
food up , household charge , prop tax coming , water charges coming
retirement age up - stealth taxes ALL over the place

add this to - my wages down 40% - work down by at least 50% , self employed so if what little work i have left drys up i have NO social entitlements ( also have a chronic long term illness that costs me a fortune each month ) , mortgage to pay , 2 small kids - i have no more to give

the kildare st mafia will have you believe that the world will stop turning if we vote no - well as i see it for me it just cant get any worse
i would be far better off on the dole if i was lucky enough to qualify

VOTE NO - NO MORE PAYING SOMEONE ELSE'S DEBTS

if they bother to help me , then maybe just maybe ill help them
till then - **** you FG\LB

ilovesleep · 15-04-2012 3:58pm

Am Chile wrote: »

I was there at yesterdays march, rte said 4.000 + were there yesterday meaning there was more given rte have dressed down numbers at other protests, More people will take to the streets now.

I am so fcuking sick of RTE. Puppets to the government, they are. Feeding a certain group who are senile and simple over exaggerated situations so people tow the line that the government wants us to follow so that the gravy train keeps on rolling with over inflated pay, perks and pensions. The simple and the senile are throwing good money after bad. In return RTE are going to be saved with a broadcasting charge. I want RTE abolished.

donegal_road · 15-04-2012 3:59pm

right, Im going to contribute something possitive to this.. I have just looked into rainwater harvesting systems for domestic houses (just google it and see). I will start a new thread on this soon and post updates and progress as I go along.

Am Chile · 15-04-2012 4:00pm

Phil got a nice warm welcome in Carlow last wednesday and another warm welcome in Waterford on friday night, all local anti household tax/anti water charge groups should hound him wherever he goes to make an appearance. whatever venue/event he is schduled to turn up at there should a protest/picket planned and people lying in wait to hound him.

Freddie59 · 15-04-2012 4:00pm

lugha wrote: »

Should food be free also?

I certainly think that people should have the choice not to be supplied with water if they want to source it themselves.

I wonder will people be allowed drill for a well in their back gardens?

Robdude · 15-04-2012 4:01pm

Hahaha - it's like watching a trainwreck in slow motion....

The_Thing · 15-04-2012 4:05pm

woodoo wrote: »

Throw Hogan down the well.

The rotting carcass would poison the well.

mikom · 15-04-2012 4:06pm

woodoo wrote: »

Throw Hogan down the well.

"We're gonna need a bigger well"

dj jarvis · 15-04-2012 4:08pm

i suggest that EVERYONE should get the water stop outside their houses where they want to install the water meters WELDED shut

that will stop their gallop for a bit

social disobedience is the way to do this

they want to charge me for water that smells stronger of chlorine than my local gym

not a chance lads - my beating stick is going to get used if they come near my property

PrincessLola · 15-04-2012 4:08pm

Biggins wrote: »

If true - thats another bill then for every householder in the country - on top of their already household tax.
Aren't FG and Labour great!

I don't know who to vote for anymore, I just hate them all so much.

May have to do the unthinkable and vote for SF next time.

lugha · 15-04-2012 4:12pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

I wonder will people be allowed drill for a well in their back gardens?

I’d have no objection in principle, though there probably wouldn’t be a well in most gardens I think. And there may be other issues in build up areas. But certainly people could look at rain harvesting mechanisms.

If they want the convenience of piped water then people should pay for it, and as is the case with electricity and gas and so on, paying according to the amount you use seems perfectly sensible to me. But if people do not want these conveniences then they should have the right not to have them if that is there wish. I'd fully support anyone taking that stance.

ilovesleep · 15-04-2012 4:13pm

Many homes in Galway are still drinking bottled water out of fear of being infected with sewage again.

genie · 15-04-2012 4:13pm

donegal_road wrote: »

right, Im going to contribute something possitive to this.. I have just looked into rainwater harvesting systems for domestic houses (just google it and see). I will start a new thread on this soon and post updates and progress as I go along.

I have a rainwater harvesting system for my house (so anyone turning up on my doorstep expecting to install a water meter has got another thing coming!) and it is fantastic. I was a bit sceptical when I first moved in but I now wouldn't be without it.

I live on my own but even so with baths, washing machine, a rather old fashioned loo which uses quite a lot of water, the level in the tank has never dropped below halfway in a (rare!) dry spell.

The tank holds around 15,000 gallons of water. The water is taken from the gutters on the back of my house. I have water butts for the garden taking water from the front of the house and also from my sheds. All in all, I have never run out of water.

It really is something which a lot more people should look into doing.

ilovesleep · 15-04-2012 4:20pm

lugha wrote: »

I’d have no objection in principle, though there probably wouldn’t be a well in most gardens I think. And there may be other issues in build up areas. But certainly people could look at rain harvesting mechanisms.

If they want the convenience of piped water then people should pay for it, and as is the case with electricity and gas and so on, paying according to the amount you use seems perfectly sensible to me. But if people do not want these conveniences then they should have the right not to have them if that is there wish. I'd fully support anyone taking that stance.

With water metering and charges coming in many people will look into effeciencies like this and if not will severely cut back on using water like maybe showering less. The cutback on water usage will mean less money raised so it means that water will be increased year on year on year.

melekalikimaka · 15-04-2012 4:23pm

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I wonder how they will install the meters without trespassing on private property and, in essence damaging private property (whatever pipes that have to mess around with)?

just because its private property does not mean that the government cant access it... look under the constitution and see who 'actually' owns your land

The_Thing · 15-04-2012 4:26pm

Am Chile wrote: »

Whatever venue/event he is schduled to turn up at there should a protest/picket planned and people lying in wait to hound him.

Hogan has to be lucky all the time, we only have to be lucky once.

I will have news of another event he's scheduled to attend in the coming weeks and I will be letting the Campaign know of the details when I have them.

Biggins · 15-04-2012 4:28pm

To summarise, so far in just over a year we have had of FG and Labour

* Irish people are left with a full 1.5 BILLION bill.
(Because FG/Labour won't hold to account the religious orders)

* Refusing to say if or not, they are still having meetings with shysters named in the Mahon report!

* Their cronyism blankly continues.

* They break even their own wage rules with awarded massive hikes.

* They refuse to hold to account those that have been deemed bad in the Mahon report
(...And as such by in-action, what a waste of money that was!)

* Cancelled six other investigations!
(Possibly because some of their own involved yet again?)

* They have TOTALLY reversed positions on many, many areas and particular topics.

* They have invented many a new tax, charge, payment, levy or whatever name they can think up by the month.

* They are price fixing the cost of drink!
(As in their own FG manifesto, by side-effect, in aiding bars to see rake more profits alone - but never mentioning ANYTHING about teens - but thats the excuse now!)

* They have jumped like good little lapdogs at every order from French/German masters.
(Even more than once, giving them budget details before even the Irish people get them!)

* Reversed position on Third level fees!

* Still paying out to the Bondholders.

* Sourcing data from household bills, possibly breaking European privacy laws!

* Making paycuts to some public servants while uping their own expenses and inventing more for themselves.

* Changed the Dail clocking in system so they can exploit it in a number of ways - even if they are not actually there!

* Refusing so far to hold Mr Ahern to further account!

* Changed their position on corporate donations!

* Changed their position on the number of TD's needed!

* Stalled on the 16 years report about changes much needed to fathers rights!

* Refusing to change rule 68 of the national schools (religion related) and rule 69, which is purely sexist!

* Stalling (hoping we will forget?) over the matter of the Seanad - still instead using it to reward their own!

* Made a total fcuk-up of the household charge!

* Made a total fcuk-up of the turf-cutting issue!

* Dropped the climate change bill in November 2011

* Slaughtered Garda resources and numbers!

* Reversed the addressing of the (too) many quango's. Using them instead to place their own people on them!

* FG and Lab Manifestos: stated there would be vetting of appointments to state boards by the Oireachtas.
Now? Example: Party political appointments have been made, without any oversight or transparency. In October 2011, they appointed the former head of AIB Investment Management as head of the New Era quango, without revealing her pay or conditions.

* Addressing further the Freedom of Information act? Become non-existent. Vanished!
Instead rushed through and totally fcuked up laws pertaining to the internet, right of use giving cut-off powers to a semi-state body that is also possibly breaking European law!

...And the above is just off the top of my head as I can remember them.

Joko · 15-04-2012 4:29pm

The_Thing wrote: »

Hogan has to be lucky all the time, we only have to be lucky once.

I will have news of another event he's scheduled to attend in the coming weeks and I will be letting the Campaign know of the details when I have them.

Great quoting the IRA :rolleyes:

tfitzgerald · 15-04-2012 4:31pm

PrincessLola wrote: »

I don't know who to vote for anymore, I just hate them all so much.

May have to do the unthinkable and vote for SF next time.

I really don't think I'll vote anymore . They are all the same not one of en gives a damn about the man in the street

Yakuza · 15-04-2012 4:39pm

genie wrote: »

The tank holds around 15,000 gallons of water.

? Really - that's massive - around 4 *4 *4 metres. That's a serious tank!

What I'd like to know is how the hell are they physically going to retrofit a meter to my house - as far as I can see, the water intake is under concrete from my drive up to behind my kitchen sink.

I'm sure they'll change the law to empower inspectors to come on to your property and install stuff, just to make it nice and legal, like. Fcukers.

Joko · 15-04-2012 4:41pm

Biggins wrote: »

* Dropped the climate change bill in November 2011

That bill would have put the handbrakes on any economic growth. If want to pay more bull**** carbon tax and PSO levies on energy bills, go ahead and campaign for its introduction.

melekalikimaka · 15-04-2012 4:43pm

Yakuza wrote: »

I'm sure they'll change the law to empower inspectors to come on to your property and install stuff, just to make it nice and legal, like. Fcukers.

what law says they cant right now?

Biggins · 15-04-2012 4:43pm

Joko wrote: »

That bill would have put the handbrakes on any economic growth. If want to pay more bull**** carbon tax and PSO levies on energy bills, go ahead and campaign for its introduction.

Yea, thats the spin they put on it.
Like I trust their PR spun words!

the bolt · 15-04-2012 4:47pm

could be a few nixxers going,bypassing meters.not very hard to do .:D

Bullseye1 · 15-04-2012 4:47pm

Water is not free. This is pure propaganda spouted by LAs and government. People who pay tax do not get water for free.

If local authorities had actually spent the money they made from levies imposed on developers and fixed the water pipes which lose up to 1/3 of the water this would not be an issue.

If local authorities had imposed conditions of planning on developers to provide water meters this issue would not have arisen.

Robdude · 15-04-2012 4:51pm

lugha wrote: »

I’d have no objection in principle, though there probably wouldn’t be a well in most gardens I think. And there may be other issues in build up areas. But certainly people could look at rain harvesting mechanisms.

If they want the convenience of piped water then people should pay for it, and as is the case with electricity and gas and so on, paying according to the amount you use seems perfectly sensible to me. But if people do not want these conveniences then they should have the right not to have them if that is there wish. I'd fully support anyone taking that stance.

If I paid no taxes - I'd totally agree with you. But we already pay taxes....

This is like going to an 'All you can eat buffet' and paying 10 euro for food and drink. Then, during the meal, the manager comes out and asks for another euro.

After all - he has to provide electricity and maintain the building!

Then, you go up for a second plate of food and he comes back and says, 'Whoa - you are getting MORE food? I need to charge you another euro!'

Which is odd because you thought it was all you can eat - but I guess that makes sense.

Then he comes back and says - 'You know, the silverware and dishes you are eating off of - they aren't free! I have to pay for them. I have to pay someone to watch them! I need another euro from you!'

And you pay it.

Then he returns - to introduce the 'chair and table fee' - so you pay it.
Then he returns - this time to introduce a fee for the water you drinking.
Then he returns - this time to charge you for the food you are eating.

Now you are paying 2-3x as much as you used to pay - and you've got itemized charges that cover ALL of the things your original fee was supposed to pay; with no explanation for what the original 10 euro is no going to.

My taxes haven't gone down - what new benefit am I getting in place of the water I used to get in exchange for my taxes?

flutered · 15-04-2012 4:51pm

lugha wrote: »

Should food be free also?

I certainly think that people should have the choice not to be supplied with water if they want to source it themselves.

i have news for you and it is all sad, phil the flute(r) claims that it is a national resource, as so it is the property of the goverment, he expects it to be paid for,he expects every one to shell out and keep smileing.

Yakuza · 15-04-2012 4:52pm

melekalikimaka wrote: »

what law says they cant right now?

I would be pretty surprised if there was currently a law that allows government agents to come onto private property and start digging it up to install something. As far as I know, only Customs have draconian powers (warrantless entry) and that's only to take stuff away, not install more.

But, just as they are ( in the process of) amending the Data Protection laws to get their grubby mits on householder name data from the utility companies, they'll empower agents to do exactly the above.

Biggins · 15-04-2012 4:54pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Water is not free. This is pure propaganda spouted by LAs and government. People who pay tax do not get water for free.

If local authorities had actually spent the money they made from levies imposed on developers and fixed the water pipes which lose up to 1/3 of the water this would not be an issue.

If local authorities had imposed conditions of planning on developers to provide water meters this issue would not have arisen.

I take exception to the charging of a water meter.

If someone wants to charge me something, they can pay-up themselves for the means to charge me for use of water!

I do not object to paying for something I use.
I object to their forcing a meter on me (if I want it or not) and then telling me I must also pay for it!
Not only that but because they have 'awarded' me the privilege of having a meter, they then on top of this are going to charge me yearly (another form of tax!) for the luxury of having it!
...and what's this rental cost going towards? Its maintaince?

flutered · 15-04-2012 4:55pm

genie wrote: »

I have a rainwater harvesting system for my house (so anyone turning up on my doorstep expecting to install a water meter has got another thing coming!) and it is fantastic.

It really is something which a lot more people should look into doing.

as we are nearer boston than berlin, most parts of the u.s. have a roof tax, they charge for the rain water, the flute(r) will try the same here next year.

ilovesleep · 15-04-2012 4:55pm

Biggins wrote: »

To summarise, so far in just over a year we have had of FG and Labour

* Irish people are left with a full 1.5 BILLION bill.
(Because FG/Labour won't hold to account the religious orders)

* Refusing to say if or not, they are still having meetings with shysters named in the Mahon report!

* Their cronyism blankly continues.

* They break even their own wage rules with awarded massive hikes.

* They refuse to hold to account those that have been deemed bad in the Mahon report
(...And as such by in-action, what a waste of money that was!)

* Cancelled six other investigations!
(Possibly because some of their own involved yet again?)

* They have TOTALLY reversed positions on many, many areas and particular topics.

* They have invented many a new tax, charge, payment, levy or whatever name they can think up by the month.

* They are price fixing the cost of drink!
(As in their own FG manifesto, by side-effect, in aiding bars to see rake more profits alone - but never mentioning ANYTHING about teens - but thats the excuse now!)

* They have jumped like good little lapdogs at every order from French/German masters.
(Even more than once, giving them budget details before even the Irish people get them!)

* Reversed position on Third level fees!

* Still paying out to the Bondholders.

* Sourcing data from household bills, possibly breaking European privacy laws!

* Making paycuts to some public servants while uping their own expenses and inventing more for themselves.

* Changed the Dail clocking in system so they can exploit it in a number of ways - even if they are not actually there!

* Refusing so far to hold Mr Ahern to further account!

* Changed their position on corporate donations!

* Changed their position on the number of TD's needed!

* Stalled on the 16 years report about changes much needed to fathers rights!

* Refusing to change rule 68 of the national schools (religion related) and rule 69, which is purely sexist!

* Stalling (hoping we will forget?) over the matter of the Seanad - still instead using it to reward their own!

* Made a total fcuk-up of the household charge!

* Made a total fcuk-up of the turf-cutting issue!

* Dropped the climate change bill in November 2011

* Slaughtered Garda resources and numbers!

* Reversed the addressing of the (too) many quango's. Using them instead to place their own people on them!

* FG and Lab Manifestos: stated there would be vetting of appointments to state boards by the Oireachtas.
Now? Example: Party political appointments have been made, without any oversight or transparency. In October 2011, they appointed the former head of AIB Investment Management as head of the New Era quango, without revealing her pay or conditions.

* Addressing further the Freedom of Information act? Become non-existent. Vanished!
Instead rushed through and totally fcuked up laws pertaining to the internet, right of use giving cut-off powers to a semi-state body that is also possibly breaking European law!

...And the above is just off the top of my head as I can remember them.

We need to get rid of these fcuks out of power. They need an ousting from government. FF number 2 continuing with greed and corruption. We need a revolution.

lugha · 15-04-2012 4:59pm

flutered wrote: »

i have news for you and it is all sad, phil the flute(r) claims that it is a national resource, as so it is the property of the goverment, he expects it to be paid for,he expects every one to shell out and keep smileing.

Could you not say exactly the same thing about the natural gas we get from Kinsale? Should we get gas free?

And property of the people, not the government.

Households must pay for water meters.

Comments