Throwers and throws coaching

RoyMcC · 03-02-2011 11:22am #1

There have to be people that look at this forum that are NOT runners/triathletes, surely? If so then they must, in time, realise that there's nothing for them here. So, in the faint hope that this thread won't drop like a stone (as did the last one on shot putt about 18 months ago) let's be having you! Throwers, coaches, put your hands up.

Are you a competitive thrower? Do you coach throws? Are you in fact Dan Kennedy, Bart Rogers, Ailish O'Brien, Dave Sweeney or Phil Conway (those coaches I know in the Dublin area.) What do you make of the standard of throwing in Ireland, the facilities, interest amongst young athletes? Is there a big regional difference?

Come on, there's a lot more to athletics than you'd guess from the threads on this forum. Let's keep this thread on top

ecoli · 03-02-2011 12:03pm

RoyMcC wrote: »

There have to be people that look at this forum that are NOT runners/triathletes, surely? If so then they must, in time, realise that there's nothing for them here. So, in the faint hope that this thread won't drop like a stone (as did the last one on shot putt about 18 months ago) let's be having you! Throwers, coaches, put your hands up.

Are you a competitive thrower? Do you coach throws? Are you in fact Dan Kennedy, Bart Rogers, Ailish O'Brien, Dave Sweeney or Phil Conway (those coaches I know in the Dublin area.) What do you make of the standard of throwing in Ireland, the facilities, interest amongst young athletes? Is there a big regional difference?

Come on, there's a lot more to athletics than you'd guess from the threads on this forum. Let's keep this thread on top

Took a course with Bart before. I will admit before the course I was under the assumption that strength was the primary factor in these events. When I was opened up to the disciplines i was shocked to see how much technique can improve you.
Regarding the throws events i think in spite of what seem to be declining standards the women's hammer is one that we seem to have a good crop of talented juniors who are ready take up the mantle from O Keefe. 3 of the 4 top ranked women of last year were in fact 20 or younger. Likewise in the discuss 2 of the top three were of the same age and also the shot with the top three being junior
Perhaps we could be in for a treat over this generation and see a resurgence in throwing events (atleast in the womens side)?

a_non_a_mouse · 03-02-2011 1:02pm

facilities are terrible for throwers.
I almost cry sometimes when I see clips on youtube etc of people training indoor with multiple nets for throws etc.
Its not something most young throwers in Ireland have access to.
Its hard to work on technique when your hands are freezing and the sector is wet/icy. (yes, I know you have to make to with what you have and believe me, I done some sessions in very unusual places over the years!)

Its hard to find places to throw hammer and discus, and the better the athlete the harder it is, distances climb and so does the weight being thrown.
Not too many places where you can throw a 4kg+ hammer 50m+ in safety.
Javelin really needs tartan type surface for runup and again safety is a big issue here. Its hard for good throwers to train even during regular club training times, the risk of killing poor 7 year old Mary/Johnny who runs across the infield is too high.
Standard of coaching is also patchy.....you get pockets of talent coming through with the old exception. Access to quality coaches is huge, you hear many reasons why kids drop out of athletes, one of the reasons I believe is that, kids get stuck at a certain level and when they see no improvement they drift to other sports. I believe the interest is there for the throws but not enough exposure to good quality coaches. (I mean did Belvedere just happen to attract more than its fair share of hammer throwers over the years, or did it just get its fair share but did a much better job of training the kids and keeping them in the sport?)
I know the regional squads and the national throws squads are trying and money is obviously a factor but there is a long way to go.
there should really be much more of these sessions and they need to ensure that they have the best coaches available for these sessions.
Also, I believe the carding standards don't encourage our throwers enough.
I could be corrected, but I don't think there is any juvenile/junior athlete who has carding standard in the shot, there is i think 1 in the discus and about 6/8 in the hammer.
I think they should shave just a little off for shot/discus to give people something to at least aim for...at the moment, its a bit too aspiration for most.
I see a whole bunch of good male hammer throwers, most of who are in their last year as junior in 2011, I'm hoping some of them make the breakthrough at senior level and yes there is some talent on the female hammer also, so hopefully we will have someone pushing EOK.

madon · 03-02-2011 10:41pm

I threw shot years ago- started as I was looking for a medal in county championships- ended up I was alright at it and went on to qualify to the all irelands a few years in a row and school championships etc.
I was lucky too to have a coach from another local club happy to help with teaching me technique etc. as the club I was in was pretty new and didn't have a coach for field events.
The reason I stopped throwing and could be the reason why a lot of teenage girls stop is because I got to the age where I needed to build up muscle to progress and its one thing a teenage girl does not want to do.

donothoponpop · 03-02-2011 11:56pm

RoyMcC wrote: »

There have to be people that look at this forum that are NOT runners/triathletes, surely? If so then they must, in time, realise that there's nothing for them here. So, in the faint hope that this thread won't drop like a stone (as did the last one on shot putt about 18 months ago) let's be having you! Throwers, coaches, put your hands up.

Are you a competitive thrower? Do you coach throws? Are you in fact Dan Kennedy, Bart Rogers, Ailish O'Brien, Dave Sweeney or Phil Conway (those coaches I know in the Dublin area.) What do you make of the standard of throwing in Ireland, the facilities, interest amongst young athletes? Is there a big regional difference?

Come on, there's a lot more to athletics than you'd guess from the threads on this forum. Let's keep this thread on top

This forum is an umbrella for T&F on Boards too- if you feel its not working for athletics, then we need to do something proactive about that. Perhaps a dedicated T&F sticky pointing to the best threads? Or any other ideas- basically the moderators here are open to any ideas on how best to increase the readership on the athletics part of the forum, its certainly something that needs to be pushed a bit (an fair play to Roy for getting the ball rolling).

RoyMcC · 04-02-2011 1:05am

ecoli wrote: »

When I was opened up to the disciplines i was shocked to see how much technique can improve you.

Indeed, and too few athletes have the patience to accept that they'll only succeed long term by allying technique to conditioning.

ecoli wrote: »

Perhaps we could be in for a treat over this generation and see a resurgence in throwing events (atleast in the womens side)?

Let's hope so. The standard at the national championships in 2009 was woeful to put it kindly.

RoyMcC · 04-02-2011 1:30am

Cracking post a_non_a_mouse, thank you.

a_non_a_mouse wrote: »

facilities are terrible for throwers.
I almost cry sometimes when I see clips on youtube etc of people training indoor with multiple nets for throws etc.
Its not something most young throwers in Ireland have access to.
Its hard to work on technique when your hands are freezing and the sector is wet/icy. (yes, I know you have to make to with what you have and believe me, I done some sessions in very unusual places over the years!).

I don't know - the main tracks I know (Santry, Irishtown, Tullamore, UCC) have reasonable circles/runways. But it's unusual to find anyone using them. Agreed the Irish/British weather conspires against us and one can only dream of training in warm, dry conditions all year. But it didn't stop Sheridan, Callaghan, Conway, McHugh, O'Keefe etc from reaching world standard.

a_non_a_mouse wrote: »

Its hard for good throwers to train even during regular club training times, the risk of killing poor 7 year old Mary/Johnny who runs across the infield is too high.

Bloomin' runners eh. If they got used to having javs flying across the infield maybe it wouldn't happen.

a_non_a_mouse wrote: »

Access to quality coaches is huge, you hear many reasons why kids drop out of athletes, one of the reasons I believe is that, kids get stuck at a certain level and when they see no improvement they drift to other sports. I believe the interest is there for the throws but not enough exposure to good quality coaches.

I believe that there is enough quality coaching there but somehow it's not producing results. But the same can be said of GB where even they, with infinitely more resources, are struggling badly at world level.

a_non_a_mouse wrote: »

(I mean did Belvedere just happen to attract more than its fair share of hammer throwers over the years, or did it just get its fair share but did a much better job of training the kids and keeping them in the sport?)

Phil Conway was, until recently, a teacher at Belvedere and therefore had a captive audience

a_non_a_mouse wrote: »

I think they should shave just a little off for shot/discus to give people something to at least aim for...at the moment, its a bit too aspiration for most.
I see a whole bunch of good male hammer throwers, most of who are in their last year as junior in 2011, I'm hoping some of them make the breakthrough at senior level and yes there is some talent on the female hammer also, so hopefully we will have someone pushing EOK.

Great - there seems to be some good development work going on, as there is in GB. Somehow the British Isles have fallen way off the standard in the last 30 years.

RoyMcC · 04-02-2011 1:41am

madon wrote: »

The reason I stopped throwing and could be the reason why a lot of teenage girls stop is because I got to the age where I needed to build up muscle to progress and its one thing a teenage girl does not want to do.

Good point, but how things have changed in that respect. I think many people still have this image of the Soviet women throwers who probably built motorways for a living :eek: Take a look these days and there's far more of an emphasis on all-round athleticism and speed. You won't find a better example than Anita White in that respect.

madon you could have been a champ!

RoyMcC · 04-02-2011 1:44am

donothoponpop wrote: »

This forum is an umbrella for T&F on Boards too- if you feel its not working for athletics, then we need to do something proactive about that. Perhaps a dedicated T&F sticky pointing to the best threads? Or any other ideas- basically the moderators here are open to any ideas on how best to increase the readership on the athletics part of the forum, its certainly something that needs to be pushed a bit (an fair play to Roy for getting the ball rolling).

Thanks donothoponpop, but it's up to the field eventers themselves to prove that they have a voice.

stupidrobot · 04-02-2011 3:16am

Wow, a throws thread, never thought I'd see one of these! I met Eamon Coughlin briefly last year, he asked me what I did, I think he thought I was a runner. I said "I'm afraid I'm a thrower", he replied jokingly that there was not need to be sorry but sometimes you almost feel like there is!:)

a_non_a_mouse is spot on basicly. Two petitions were set up after the circle in Santry was put down. (For those who don't know) There is a sector in the hammer and discus events that the implement must land within when thrown. The circle was "aimed" in the wrong direction and the left hand sector line met the track about 50m out the field. Judges stood in the circle and made throwers wait for runners to pass during national championships for fear of hitting them and one athlete landed a hammer near one of long jump pits once. You can imagine Eileen O'Keefe chipping 70m, quite easy for her to land the hammer in one of the lanes. Added to that the circle was covered in leveling compond, ie pure ice. It rained during one competition and all the discus throwers protested by refusing to throw, it was suicide to try to turn in.
Athlone has excellent facilities but when the Dr. Pat O'Callaghan Cup was held there last year we had trouble with the cage, the netting droops towards the centre at the top and unless you hit it dead down the middle the handle of the hammer would hit off or even get stuck in the netting. To correct this most of the netting had to be taken down!

Coaching is boardline nonexistant in certain areas. I mentioned once that there is not a single coach in the country capable of teaching rotational shot putt. I'm involved with the Irish Throwers Club and get lots of emails looking for Javelin coaches. Unless they live near Dan Kennedy there is little I can advise them on.
Very few athletes have, to date, stayed in the sport full time beyond Junior level which means we have a very small pool of people who have the ability to coach. People like Dan Kennedy and Phil Conway have done unbelievable work but can't be expected to bring the entire country forward on their own. Coaching is deffinatly the area we are lacking most in.

Phil Conway and George Eyres have done great work in bringing through the current batch of junior men's hammer throwers, especially Conal Campion and Killian Barry. Conway turned Belvedere into a production line for throwers, basicly recruiting the most suited out of the rugby teams to do a bit of T&F during the rugby off season. I competed at senior schools level against Cian Healy in the shot but I think he only did one year of clubs, where as players like Podge White eventually went over fully into the throws. They were getting the techinque training from one of the top minds in the country but getting the speed and strength training from rugby, elements which are ignored in training by most other throws coaches. Few coaches in the throws know anything about strength training and there isn't really any place they can learn about the specific types of strength required for different throws, though I think that Phil, George and the AAI Throws Squad put on a day about it last year.

In general, in isolated areas we are doing fantastic. But we have to consider how many great throwers are falling by the wayside in other parts of the country for want of coaching. Rant over, sorry for its length!

RoyMcC · 04-02-2011 2:49pm

Good post from an active thrower! See, they do exist :pac:

Afaik they still haven't realigned that circle in Santry (I can't think that it's a big job) so the hammer throwers are relegated to the bog beyond the car park.

stupidrobot you could push javelin people towards Bart (Clonliffe) or Dave Sweeney (Bray?) who are excellent. I don't know what the expertise is like down the country though.

Certainly a talented coach can make a dramatic difference. As a_non_a_mouse said earlier, if an athlete ceases to improve then they will lose interest. The good, trained coach will have the know-how to be able to pick up an 'ok' athlete (at any event) and to bring them on towards their potential.

One would hope that the squads system would start producing shortly, fingers crossed.

madon · 04-02-2011 8:26pm

RoyMcC wrote: »

Good point, but how things have changed in that respect. I think many people still have this image of the Soviet women throwers who probably built motorways for a living :eek: Take a look these days and there's far more of an emphasis on all-round athleticism and speed. You won't find a better example than Anita White in that respect.

madon you could have been a champ!

I think I was a few years out of throwing and the international throwers started getting smaller- I was born too early!

I don't know about champ- you have my interest back in it though. I might have to visit the folks and brush off the circle my Dad cemented in the back garden!

multisport · 07-02-2011 10:24pm

How much of throwing technique is common across the disciplines?

follow on question....

how much could the technique from shot/javelin/etc be applied to other throwing sports, such as canoepolo or olympic handball.

Or even darts? given that someone said to me once that darts is the drinking mans javelin. Tongue coming out through cheek on this.

RoyMcC · 07-02-2011 10:53pm

multisport wrote: »

How much of throwing technique is common across the disciplines?

follow on question....

how much could the technique from shot/javelin/etc be applied to other throwing sports, such as canoepolo or olympic handball.

Or even darts? given that someone said to me once that darts is the drinking mans javelin. Tongue coming out through cheek on this.

I'll leave the last one for the humourists on here

All four throws have the commonality that the power comes not from the arm but from the legs which, through good technique, transfer that power up through the body and arm to release the implement at the optimum speed and angle. Anyone with practice and without being overly strong can deliver a reasonable shot, discus or hammer.

Javelin is an exception where, without a natural strong and 'fast' throwing arm, one is unlikely to be successful.

I had to Google canoeball - the throw is all in the arm so a good javelin thrower could transfer their delivery technique with some success I'd say, though obviously minus the legwork. Handball? That was a 'hitting' game when I was at school, admittedly many years ago.

multisport · 07-02-2011 11:03pm

for anyone else who's not familiar with canoepolo... most of ye I guess

http://canoepolo.sportpicsuk.com/g14153.html has a few pics from the 2010 world champs in Milan.

Olympic handball http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TzIlW9p3a8 and http://www.olympichandball.org/

meathcountysec · 08-02-2011 11:26am

multisport wrote: »

How much of throwing technique is common across the disciplines?

follow on question....

how much could the technique from shot/javelin/etc be applied to other throwing sports, such as canoepolo or olympic handball.

Or even darts? given that someone said to me once that darts is the drinking mans javelin. Tongue coming out through cheek on this.

Opens can of worms…

edit: displaying a certain degree of inter-event snobbery between throwers here

The javelin is the one true throwing event, as in using an over-arm throwing action of the arm. Having said that, there is a commonality in all the throws techniques in that, for an instance, a two-legged stance is held, with a blocking action from one leg to accelerate the implement.

As far as darts is concerned, I imagine the shot arm action is more akin to it than the javelin. Wouldn’t fancy being in the same room as a darts-player throwing over-arm. ;-)

Picks up can, walks away, trailing non-arthropod invertebrates.

a_non_a_mouse · 08-02-2011 11:52am

multisport wrote: »

How much of throwing technique is common across the disciplines?

I'll ignore most of the post, but the above is a common question and people think if your big and strong you will be good at the throws, in particular the shot and hammer.

Throwing technique is very different accross all 4 throws (i'm ignoring weight for distance/height and other non main stream throws)
things in common as pointed out by RoyMcC is that bulk of the work is actually done by the legs, balance, co-ordination and speed is also key in all.

I don't think javelin is alone in requiring a "fast arm", its also vital for shot and discus, you can practice all you like but if you haven't got a fast arm, it just ain't going to go very far.
I've seen strong kids who can't run very fast or far being pushed towards the shot and they don't last, its not valid talent identification!
I'm sure Phil Conway in Belvo for example didn't search out the kids who were last in the school sprint or last in the school cross county, I'm sure he had some talent identification process in place which would have identified explosiveness, balance and co-ordination.

ecoli · 08-02-2011 12:25pm

a_non_a_mouse wrote: »

I'm sure Phil Conway in Belvo for example didn't search out the kids who were last in the school sprint or last in the school cross county, I'm sure he had some talent identification process in place which would have identified explosiveness, balance and co-ordination.

Think this is definitely true I can think of Luke Mangan (who dominated the my age group growing up year in year out). Luke made his success in school through being a quite talented rugby player. Like this our club have found some of the best throwers we have had come from a successful rugby background.

The explosive power developed in rugby training seems to be a good platform to develop from. Given our recent rugby success its a wonder why we don't capitalize on this pool of talent to develop throwing in this country. Given the fact there are alot of good rugby players who dont quite make it in rugby and usually fall off sport means there would be quite a few who could be funneled into the athletics scene

donothoponpop · 08-02-2011 8:04pm

ecoli wrote: »

The explosive power developed in rugby training seems to be a good platform to develop from. Given our recent rugby success its a wonder why we don't capitalize on this pool of talent to develop throwing in this country. Given the fact there are alot of good rugby players who dont quite make it in rugby and usually fall off sport means there would be quite a few who could be funneled into the athletics scene

Its a good idea, would be interesting to see if anything came of it. Athletics poaching from rugby would be a new one though. Often the "problem" is talented throwers are drawn more towards rugby when they have to make a choice- more money, better facilities, greater exposure. I remember being told by a coach how hard it was to keep Victor Costello in the shot put- rugby was taking all of his time, and indeed won out in the end (although Victor did become an Olympian for Ireland in 92).

RoyMcC · 23-02-2011 6:13pm

Delighted to see a few of my ex-young Crusader athletes medalling in the shot at the Dublin Indoors last weekend.

Alix Hughes U16G gold
Isabel O'Leary U14G gold
Niamh Ferry U14G silver
Emily Shiels U14G bronze
Roisin McGuill U13G silver

But really the last three-named are not throwers. It shines a bit of a light on why the standard of throwing in Ireland is so poor generally. Many youngsters from the Dublin clubs roll up to the juvenile championships (indoor & outdoor) and enter the throws events just to 'have a go'. Very few seem to have picked up an implement before. The officials (I was one during 2008/9) spend half their time instructing the youngsters how to throw a shot/discus/javelin before measuring the resultant sorry effort.

I can only presume that the 'strong' Dublin clubs don't have the equipment/facilities/coaches which is sad.

Is the situation the same elsewhere in the Republic?

a_non_a_mouse · 24-02-2011 2:46pm

yeah, I've seen similar with people being entered into competitions by coaches who either can't or don't show the kids how to throw beforehand.
Its crazy and to be honest its unfair not just on the officials (I feel your pain, I've fouled some kids on all their throws cos they keep walking out the front) but its also unfair on the kids.
they may get an "easy" medal in a county/regional event and then at the next level they get destroyed.

and while on the subject of throws...
the standard in the womens national seniors was much lower than the standard in the national juniors (all credit to the medalist all the same) and with less entries.

RoyMcC · 24-02-2011 4:13pm

a_non_a_mouse wrote: »

yeah, I've seen similar with people being entered into competitions by coaches who either can't or don't show the kids how to throw beforehand.
Its crazy and to be honest its unfair not just on the officials (I feel your pain, I've fouled some kids on all their throws cos they keep walking out the front) but its also unfair on the kids.
they may get an "easy" medal in a county/regional event and then at the next level they get destroyed.

and while on the subject of throws...
the standard in the womens national seniors was much lower than the standard in the national juniors (all credit to the medalist all the same) and with less entries.

Indeed the Dublin/Leinster youngsters tend to get marmalised once they get to nationals. Best for many of them not to turn up really. There must therefore be some good stuff going on in Munster and elsewhere?

How's Claire Fitzgerald (Tralee) doing these days? She was/is some prospect and was thrown to the lions far too young (imo) in the Euro Cup two years ago.

stupidrobot · 24-02-2011 6:48pm

RoyMcC wrote: »

Indeed the Dublin/Leinster youngsters tend to get marmalised once they get to nationals. Best for many of them not to turn up really. There must therefore be some good stuff going on in Munster and elsewhere?

How's Claire Fitzgerald (Tralee) doing these days? She was/is some prospect and was thrown to the lions far too young (imo) in the Euro Cup two years ago.

She's returned from a year in Manhattan and is throwing with UCC now, won the weight and shot at the indoor varsities. Can't imagine she's being coached by anyone, can't imagine who could coach someone at that level in that area. Some of the coaches for the National Throws Squads are athletes selected to be on the Squad so this takes us back to our problems with coaching in the country.

Pity they couldn't have shown just one throw of the shot putt on that Athletics coverage from the National Indoors. I watched mainly the way I could pretent to be shocked and act indignant but I knew well it wouldn't be shown! I've never seen any shot putt coverage from the indoors. (By coverage I mean even an indication that the event exists)

itsallaboutheL · 24-02-2011 7:02pm

Is it possible to get into throwing late in the day?

Not having come from an athletics background?

I've been cutivating a bit of an interest in highland games and would like to give throwing something or other a shot (parden the pun) at some stage.

/thread hijack

stupidrobot · 24-02-2011 7:15pm

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Is it possible to get into throwing late in the day?

Not having come from an athletics background?

I've been cutivating a bit of an interest in highland games and would like to give throwing something or other a shot (parden the pun) at some stage.

/thread hijack

Your chances of qualifying for the Olympics might be a bit limited but I know a few who've taken up throwing from scratch in their early 30's and are competing at a high level in their province. One guy has been doing the hammer for about a year and is getting over the 40m barrier which is solid enough throwing and he's doing high 5s to 6m in the 56lbs. I'll pm you on some details about the Irish Throwers Club and the Irish Strength Association, their the two groups holding Highland Games.

itsallaboutheL · 24-02-2011 7:22pm

stupidrobot wrote: »

Your chances of qualifying for the Olympics might be a bit limited but I know a few who've taken up throwing from scratch in their early 30's and are competing at a high level in their province. One guy has been doing the hammer for about a year and is getting over the 40m barrier which is solid enough throwing and he's doing high 5s to 6m in the 56lbs. I'll pm you on some details about the Irish Throwers Club and the Irish Strength Association, their the two groups holding Highland Games.

Appreciate it.

RoyMcC · 24-02-2011 10:13pm

stupidrobot wrote: »

She's returned from a year in Manhattan and is throwing with UCC now, won the weight and shot at the indoor varsities. Can't imagine she's being coached by anyone, can't imagine who could coach someone at that level in that area. Some of the coaches for the National Throws Squads are athletes selected to be on the Squad so this takes us back to our problems with coaching in the country.

Pity they couldn't have shown just one throw of the shot putt on that Athletics coverage from the National Indoors. I watched mainly the way I could pretent to be shocked and act indignant but I knew well it wouldn't be shown! I've never seen any shot putt coverage from the indoors. (By coverage I mean even an indication that the event exists)

Claire must have had a good coach in Kerry to get to that level, albeit she wasn't the finished article when I saw her in the juvenile nationals. Surely AI must be doing everything to ensure she's got proper coaching support

There HAS to be a top throws coach in UCC/Cork, surely.

As to TV coverage don't feel victimised. The only time the BBC ever show throws it's only a gesture - maybe the final couple of throws. It was a bit better when Backley was up there with the world's best, but not much

a_non_a_mouse · 25-02-2011 5:08pm

RoyMcC wrote: »

There HAS to be a top throws coach in UCC/Cork, surely.

...had me a chuckle at that...
I don't know who coaches ClaireF in shot/discus, but I'd put a small bet that whoever it is....is NOT associated with either UCC or a Cork club...

as stupidrobot said, I'm not sure of any Cork coach who could coach someone at her level.

RoyMcC · 25-02-2011 5:21pm

Someone must coach those young throwers that blitz the Dublin kids? Though possibly it's true that, beyond the Pale, the youngsters are just...bigger? That counts in the younger age groups though it becomes far less relevant as they get older.

I'd love to have the gig coaching throws in those surroundings at the Mardyke next to the river - maybe one day...

electrictrad · 02-03-2011 11:42pm

RoyMcC wrote: »

There HAS to be a top throws coach in UCC/Cork, surely.

:D:D. . .I'm sorry, that one cracked me up. . .

AFAIK, there is NO specialist coach in Cork County for shot putt, discus, javelin, or hammer. . .Bandon, Midleton, Leevale, West Muskerry, Blarney-Inniscara, and Riverstick-Kinsale have general coaches or older juveniles coaching the basics, but the county is crying out for a resident throws specialist

. . .the nearest specialist coaches are Jerry Horgan in Kerry for discus and hammer, John Sheehan in Limerick, and Louis Windenboer in Carlow for Javelin. . .the regional squad set-up, and the national throws squad is a godsend for anyone good enough (or dedicated enough) to qualify

That said, there is no shortage of throws enthusiasts down here. . .

RoyMcC · 03-03-2011 10:44am

It's sad that not even one of the senior throwers in the area can see their way to clear to taking the initiative. Even one dedicated coach who has (1) done it him/herself at a high level and (2) who is willing to pass on their expertise can make a big difference very quickly.

There was a lad, Patsy O'Connor, from Tralee I met a couple of years back. He seemed very enthusiastic and knowledgeable and the sort of bloke that could make an impression.

However Ireland isn't alone in this lack of expertise.

madon · 04-03-2011 9:38am

If you wanted to coach Shot or discuss how would you go about doing it?

RoyMcC · 04-03-2011 10:00am

madon wrote: »

If you wanted to coach Shot or discuss how would you go about doing it?

1. If you know something about it get yourself down to your local club. Tell them you want to coach. They'll be delighted to have your help, especially if you can make a regular commitment.

2. Depending on the club, the head coach there ought to be able to point you in the right direction. Otherwise pick up the phone to your local RDO and ask him about courses and qualifications.

3. But the main thing is, if you've got enthusiasm and really wish to help throwers, or potential throwers, you'll be a godsend.

a_non_a_mouse · 04-03-2011 10:36am

RoyMcC wrote: »

3. But the main thing is, if you've got enthusiasm and really wish to help throwers, or potential throwers, you'll be a godsend.

Absolutely....

electrictrad · 05-03-2011 10:44pm

RoyMcC wrote: »

if you've got enthusiasm and really wish to help throwers, or potential throwers, you'll be a godsend.

Can't agree more. . .every volunteer helps keep the sport alive

a_non_a_mouse · 09-03-2011 6:59pm

electrictrad wrote: »

Listen, just a shout out for the throwers, especially the juniors who get forgotton during this winter season. . .let's not forget that we're likely to have 4 or 5 throwers at the Euro Juniors later in the year. . .Pons and Hanlon will both be around or above 50m in the discus. . .Doyle and Hickey are over 15m already in the shot. . .Barry, Doyle, McCabe, Furlong, and Campion will be over or above 60m in the hammer, and who'd bet against Oosthousen breaking 60m in the javelin. . .as well as some very talented juveniles. . . it's gonna be a fantastic summer for throwing!

"moved" this as it was going to drown in the other thread...
I kinda agree...
Discus...Pons and Hanlon both have a great chance of making standard...but I'd guess only one will be picked at most.
Shot Putt....junior men's standard is 17.60m with 6k....I'd love to see someone get that distance, but I just can't see it...Doyle threw 16.15m in the AAA's...can't see him improving a meter and half before July...16m is already good throwing...
hammer...We could have a few male hammer throwers who could get the standard of 66m....including McGuigan from Finn Valley who you missed in your name check

But what about the ladies?
Kennedy could make it in the hammer (55m)
Maloney could make it in the Shot depending on how much Shot work she is doing in US but 13.85m is a big ask
I'm not seeing any other females coming close...

but yeah, could have good competitions during the year.....real dept in the Junior Men's Hammer...if everyone turns up 55m would probably be need for top8...65m to be in contention for a medal...
Schools Senior boys hammer could be a cracker also....campion is gone from school but I think there is still enough to have a situation where 50m+ could be needed for top6 there.

roll on the fine weather and the outdoor season...

a_non_a_mouse · 11-03-2011 5:15pm

Upcoming throws coaching...

a few coaching sessions including all throws in Munster over the next couple of weeks...

http://www.corkathletics.org/

electrictrad · 11-03-2011 8:00pm

a_non_a_mouse wrote: »

But what about the ladies?
Kennedy could make it in the hammer (55m)
Maloney could make it in the Shot depending on how much Shot work she is doing in US but 13.85m is a big ask
I'm not seeing any other females coming close...

but yeah, could have good competitions during the year.....real dept in the Junior Men's Hammer...if everyone turns up 55m would probably be need for top8...65m to be in contention for a medal...
Schools Senior boys hammer could be a cracker also....campion is gone from school but I think there is still enough to have a situation where 50m+ could be needed for top6 there.

roll on the fine weather and the outdoor season...

I agree with ya, I should've mentioned the ladies; Cara has a good chance. . .but I'd bet on only one qualifier at most in the ladies. . . all the potential competitors at European level are too young. . .I see us with three or four women at the Euro's in 3 or 4 years. . .its funny how all the contenders in the womens are Munster athletes. . .

The hammer is unbelieveable at the moment, lets hope that they push each other over the 66m . . .I don't see McGuigan being picked over the likes of Doyle or Barry even if he does get the standard. . .age will come into play if we have more than 3. . .

RoyMcC · 11-03-2011 8:45pm

electrictrad wrote: »

The hammer is unbelieveable at the moment, lets hope that they push each other over the 66m . . .I don't see McGuigan being picked over the likes of Doyle or Barry even if he does get the standard. . .age will come into play if we have more than 3. . .

Not surprised to hear that electrictrad. A couple of years ago I attended (as a coach) a hammer masterclass led by Paddy McGrath at Santry. The turnout of athletes was such that the group had to be split with Phil Conway. There were some great guys and gals there - enthusiastic, gagging to improve. If a few of these are now breaking through then I'm delighted

(admin, need 'delighted' smiley.)

RoyMcC · 11-03-2011 9:34pm

Sorry, weak moment. Couldn't resist posting Pat O'Callaghan, Olympic hammer gold medallist in Amsterdam 1928. May he be an inspiration to our present day throwers.

(1928, a rare claim for Jersey success at the Olympics. Cyril Gill led off the GB 4 x 100m team who won the bronze. Cyril is buried in Gouray churchyard in Jersey.)

stupidrobot · 21-04-2011 2:01am

Good weekend of throwing ahead to get the season started, a Kerry AAI Open competition on Friday, seems they have all field events and a few runs, event is permitted and I think Claire Fitzgerald is trying for the U23 discus standard.
On Monday the Dr. O'Callaghan Cup is being held in Wexford, everything from U16 to O70. Organisers are trying to get a permit for that as well as DMP and a few surrounding clubs have some athletes looking for the Junior marks in hammer and discus, with a lack of permitted competitions a few athletes have already had to start traveling to Scotland etc to hunt qualifying marks.

RoyMcC · 21-04-2011 6:34am

Thanks SR, we'll rely on you reporting back with the highlights next week.

It's only the dedicated throwers that will have trained through the winter and they'll get their rewards now the season's here. So much more pleasant to be in the circle or on the runway with the sun shining. I was coaching a bit of hammer on Tuesday evening and sudenly the cage was surrounded - 'can we have a go at that?' Long may it continue.

RoyMcC · 21-04-2011 4:21pm

Not much Irish connection here but the throwers might like this (and we're winding down for the long weekend.)

Tuesday evening at our track an U20 lad was throwing discus, name of Lawrence Okaye from Croydon. He's the training partner of our top boy around about the same age. He's a big lad but still a raw talent. Most of his throws were slamming into the cage but he eventually nailed one. It was with the senior 2kg weight and it went a mile. Unusually their coach (John Hillier) called for a measure - fortunately the discus had left a nice mark on landing. It was 64 metres which, in competition, would have put him top of the GB senior rankings for 2010.

Looking forward to see what he produces over the course of the season.

zico10 · 21-04-2011 5:40pm

RoyMcC wrote: »

Not much Irish connection here but the throwers might like this (and we're winding down for the long weekend.)

Tuesday evening at our track an U20 lad was throwing discus, name of Lawrence Okaye from Croydon. He's the training partner of our top boy around about the same age. He's a big lad but still a raw talent. Most of his throws were slamming into the cage but he eventually nailed one. It was with the senior 2kg weight and it went a mile. Unusually their coach (John Hillier) called for a measure - fortunately the discus had left a nice mark on landing. It was 64 metres which, in competition, would have put him top of the GB senior rankings for 2010.

Looking forward to see what he produces over the course of the season.

A mile = 1,609.344 metres. You need to brush up on either your imperial or metric measurements, I'm not sure which.
Sorry I'm not working these days and I've too much time on my hands.

stupidrobot · 23-04-2011 2:38pm

zico10 wrote: »

A mile = 1,609.344 metres. You need to brush up on either your imperial or metric measurements, I'm not sure which.
Sorry I'm not working these days and I've too much time on my hands.

At first I thought zico10 was just trolling when I saw that all their recent posts are in distance running threads. But then I thought if they really are from a distance background they probably don't know what a discus is ("is that the ball with the wire coming out of it or is that the short puck?") As such they probably don't understand how ridiculous it would be for a discus to go 1,609m and then became confused by a 1,545m discrepancy so we shouldn't be too harsh.
You do need to brush up on your rhetoric though and learn about analogy. "He threw a mile" is the same as "He drove from the starting blocks" (he didn't actually get into a car and drive to the 100m finish line) or "he flew around the last lap" (he didn't actually grow wings, lift off the ground and fly over the heads of the other runners)
And of course, welcome to the throws thread!

That is very, very impressive throwing RoyMcC! What's the technique like and how old is he?

Kerry Easter Open started with blistering heat (doesn't mean people actually broke out in blisters, just that it was warm) and ended with the place half flooded (doesn't mean...never mind).
Claire threw 44m in the discus, Dan Clifford won the discus at 44m and shot at 13.77m, senior men's hammer won at 52.36m, Rachel and Alice Akers were at 51-52m with their respective weights in the hammer, I didn't see much more, results should be up on one of the Kerry sites by today or tomorrow.

Numbers are low but a few top athletes coming for the Dr. O'Callaghan on Monday. This is a great oppertunity for athletes to get some early season throwing done. If well supported the ITC can grow and put on more competitions, if poorly supported then it will provide less and less. It would be a terrible pity especially to lose the Dr. O'Callaghan competition from the program so if anyone can make it down to Wexford on Monday there is an event for almost everyone. Look for Irish Throwers Club on Facebook, support greatly appriciated!

RoyMcC · 23-04-2011 4:02pm

Zico was only messing.

Okaye's technique? Considering he's new to the game, not bad. John Hillier is probably the best technical coach in GB - he's got connections with Jersey thus our little cluster of national-class performers. His discus throwers do endless throws into the cage, especially over the winter months, honing technique. That's certainly something I've learnt - there's not much future in forever slinging discs into the outfield and fetching them back. By the time you've done that once someone else has had a dozen throws into the cage.

Hope the sun brings a crowd out on Monday. Well done the ITC for keeping the flame alive. Can't find you on Facebook though

stupidrobot · 23-04-2011 4:39pm

Sorry to zico if they were only messing but with runners you can never know:D

Powell, the American thrower, talked about "shagging" the discus at the end of a video someone showed once. No, it's not what you think! he'd stand in the outfield and throw the discus back for the guys who were throwing from the cage. So 10 guys would take 1 throw each and he'd take 10 throws. Throwing into the cage is a great idea.

Here's a link to the ITC events page for the competition, hope the mods don't mind.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/event.php?eid=203358253019019

Anyone know anything about Conor McCullough? I've seen on a forum post recently that he's not throwing this year.

zico10 · 23-04-2011 7:34pm

stupidrobot wrote: »

Sorry to zico if they were only messing but with runners you can never know:D

No worries, nobody ever knows when I'm joking in real life either so it's okay. I assure you I know what a discus is and I realise even Superman would have a hard job throwing it a mile. He want one big f*** off stadium if nothing else.

But you're right I don't know a huge pile about throwing, although from the little I do know what Roy says sounds impressive. Should have said this first off.

stupidrobot · 23-04-2011 7:51pm

zico10 wrote: »

No worries, nobody ever knows when I'm joking in real life either so it's okay. I assure you I know what a discus is and I realise even Superman would have a hard job throwing it a mile. He want one big f*** off stadium if nothing else.

But you're right I don't know a huge pile about throwing, although from the little I do know what Roy says sounds impressive. Should have said this first off.

Haha, sorry about that then!

There is a silly clip on youtube of Steve Reeves as Hercules from a 60's movie literaly throwing the discus a mile from a standing throw, they get in a chariot to follow it.

The Olympic B standard in the Discus is 63m to put it in perspective!

RoyMcC · 24-04-2011 8:52am

stupidrobot wrote: »

Throwing into the cage is a great idea.

Best done with a rubber training discus of the correct weight, or you'll feck your proper implements.

EdMoses · 24-04-2011 9:54am

I have gotten involved in helping out with some coaching for a girls primary school who will be participating in the Dublin primary schools championships in June. In a previous life I had a background in hurdling so this was why I was drafted in. I've also tried to cover some of the other technical events with the girls using my limited knowledge of same. My question is this. One of the girls on her first attempt at the 2kg shot made a throw of 7m 60. Compared to all of the other kids she was miles ahead. It was just a tryout so we haven't had an opportunity to do any work on technique etc yet. Just wondering does this show potential of some sort? It looked pretty good to me. She's a very clever kid and I think would respond well to being coached. Would it be worth my time getting someone from a local club to give her a few tips or is it something I might be able to do myself? Many thanks.

Throwers and throws coaching

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