Super Rugby [Super 15] - General Discussion Thread

Taco Corp · 05-04-2013 11:35pm

have to say, I'm really not a fan of the half time interviews with players that they do in the SH. there really is no useful insight to be gained from someone who's out of breath.

matthew8 · 06-04-2013 12:59am

The TMO stuff doesn't bother me because the scrums are so much quicker in S15. Teams that actually try and get it out.

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 8:50am

Canes v Waratahs thoroughly entertaining, some great tries. For Lions watch, Folau has been a rock under the high ball, and Drew Mitchell looks sharp. Hooper good at 7.

Edit: Plus Palu back at 8, which is good news for the Wallabies.

swiftman · 06-04-2013 8:50am

savea nice hands, 3 trys in the second half are nice. first 2 are well worked

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 8:55am

Unbelievably, if Canes win, Saders drop to 4th in NZ conference...but 7th overall. Tells you a bit about the relative strength of the conferences.

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 9:03am

Ardie Savea has had a decent SXV debut. Along with halfback, 7 is a real bunfight for the ABs.

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 9:05am

Julian Savea really does do a great Lomu impression :pac:

lologram · 06-04-2013 9:14am

Swiwi wrote: »

Julian Savea really does do a great Lomu impression :pac:

Poor Julian just got done by a terrible bounce. Would have had a hat trick otherwise!

Kiwi_knock · 06-04-2013 9:35am

Game of the Weekend coming up now.

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 9:38am

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Game of the Weekend coming up now.

Yes, I love watching paint dry, waiting for the kettle to boil, and watching the Force v the Rebels.

Luckily, it's actually sunny outside, so I'm (very) reluctantly giving it a miss...

Kiwi_knock · 06-04-2013 9:51am

Good start for the Rebels, finding a bit a space. Leading 5-0

Clareman · 06-04-2013 9:57am

Next time someone goes on about how the Super 15 is the best rugby ever and northern hemisphere is terrible in comparison I'm going to make them watch this match

Kiwi_knock · 06-04-2013 10:00am

Another try for the Rebels 15-0.

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 10:23am

Clareman wrote: »

Next time someone goes on about how the Super 15 is the best rugby ever and northern hemisphere is terrible in comparison I'm going to make them watch this match

To which I would reply Zebre v Newport Gwent Dragons

Kiwi_knock · 06-04-2013 10:24am

15-11 at half time, game is not as bad as I expected.

Clareman · 06-04-2013 10:46am

Swiwi wrote: »

To which I would reply Zebre v Newport Gwent Dragons

And my retort would be not really, 3 leagues in 1 so you'd have the top 5 Rabo, top 5 English and top 5 French.

Kiwi_knock · 06-04-2013 10:48am

Another try for the Rebels, good try it was as well. JOC has looked good today, some nice touches. 20-11 now.

Clareman · 06-04-2013 10:51am

JoC really looks up for this 1 doesn't he

Kiwi_knock · 06-04-2013 11:01am

Would have been a lovely try if it had counted, ball was only slightly forward.

decisions · 06-04-2013 11:03am

That was only about an inch away from being a great try.

Kiwi_knock · 06-04-2013 11:07am

23-23. Will be a good end to the game.

Kiwi_knock · 06-04-2013 11:10am

Great piece of play there by Woodward, he showed some good pace. Rebels lead 30-23.

Kiwi_knock · 06-04-2013 11:24am

Good win for the Rebels, it was a good game to watch as well.

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 11:26am

Clareman wrote: »

And my retort would be not really, 3 leagues in 1 so you'd have the top 5 Rabo, top 5 English and top 5 French.

That should be the HEC format but I think each country has guaranteed representation meaning the scots & Italians are always in the pool stages of HEC, is that correct?

Clareman · 06-04-2013 11:35am

Swiwi wrote: »

That should be the HEC format but I think each country has guaranteed representation meaning the scots & Italians are always in the pool stages of HEC, is that correct?

Yup, that and every team in the Super competition play each other so it's a proper contest, no "groups of death".

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 11:49am

Clareman wrote: »

Yup, that and every team in the Super competition play each other so it's a proper contest, no "groups of death".

That used to be the format but now you have home & away in your own conference, and either home or away against 4 of the 5 teams from the other 2 conferences, so you miss playing 2 of the 15 teams in the SXV pool stages.

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 5:41pm

Great game between Stormers & Cheetahs. 50m drop-goal puts the Cheetahs back in front.

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 6:01pm

And the Cheetahs flyhalf holds his nerve to kick the winning penalty in extra time

He looks a handy player, I'm not sure I've ever seen a Springbok team with a non-white at 10 (at least not starting).

Just love the Cheetahs, fantastic team to watch.

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny · 06-04-2013 6:03pm

Burton Francis playing 10 today........has he played for every side barring the kings in SA?

Great result for probably the most entertaining side in the SXV

Taco Corp · 06-04-2013 6:13pm

Interesting moment from the Blues match this morning

http://www.rugbydump.com/2013/04/3111/maa-nonu-puts-the-shoulder-into-former-team-mate-piri-weepu

there were a couple of instances were players seemed to get Walsh to go to the TMO in this match. I'd hate to see that become more frequent. Officials don't always get it right but it should be left up to them

Pudsy33 · 06-04-2013 6:18pm

I am glad they did it, that was a scummy hit from Nonu.

CatFromHue · 06-04-2013 6:18pm

What did Ali Williams say?

"You can't go nice on Ma'a.......?

Taco Corp · 06-04-2013 6:22pm

Pudsy33 wrote: »

I am glad they did it, that was a scummy hit from Nonu.

this wasn't one of the incidents where players asked, sorry I wasn't very clear on that. Walsh happened to see it on the big screen.

CatFromHue wrote: »

What did Ali Williams say?

"You can't go nice on Ma'a.......?

Rugbydump have the quote as this:
"You can't guy nice on Ma'a because you and him have got beef,"

CatFromHue · 06-04-2013 6:29pm

Nonu and Walsh have beef (I never thought I'd say that phrase!), what over?

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny · 06-04-2013 6:51pm

In fairness to Walsh, at least he went back after seeing the incident and carded Nonu. Fair play Steve. He's one of my favorite refs, lets the game flow and give a bit of a comedy show with the players!

JustinDee · 06-04-2013 7:29pm

Swiwi wrote: »

To which I would reply Zebre v Newport Gwent Dragons

Followed by today's Clermont v Montpellier effort.

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 7:42pm

JustinDee wrote: »

Followed by today's Clermont v Montpellier effort.

Clermont were great, but Montpellier might as well have been Scotland in disguise - full marks for effort, but not much in the way of enterprise. I did somewhat lose interest once Clermont pulled away.

I enjoy both comps, better atmosphere in the HEC, generally (but definitely not always) a better standard of rugby in the SXV.

decisions · 06-04-2013 9:00pm

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

there were a couple of instances were players seemed to get Walsh to go to the TMO in this match. I'd hate to see that become more frequent. Officials don't always get it right but it should be left up to them

Always going to happen, I think each captain should get 2 opportunities during the game to request the tmo look at something. Otherwise the ref will be hounded to check things.

The tmo having extended powers is a great thing as long as it is used correctly, referees should not be relying on it to make every call.

Tox56 · 06-04-2013 9:03pm

Swiwi wrote: »

Clermont were great, but Montpellier might as well have been Scotland in disguise - full marks for effort, but not much in the way of enterprise. I did somewhat lose interest once Clermont pulled away.

I enjoy both comps, better atmosphere in the HEC, generally (but definitely not always) a better standard of rugby in the SXV.

But it goes back to the defence debate again. Leinster-Wasps (not H Cup I know) was a great, entertaining and high scoring game, but the defence by both sides was truly shocking. Is the quality of the attack flattered by the quality of the defence, because that Leinster-Wasps game wouldn't have looked too out of place in a Super rugby game.

Swiwi · 06-04-2013 9:08pm

Tox56 wrote: »

But it goes back to the defence debate again. Leinster-Wasps (not H Cup I know) was a great, entertaining and high scoring game, but the defence by both sides was truly shocking. Is the quality of the attack flattered by the quality of the defence, because that Leinster-Wasps game wouldn't have looked too out of place in a Super rugby game.

Had to check it wasn't irishbucsfan there tox

Not every super game is a defence-free try-fest, but I agree the super attack v super defence argument can never really be resolved...so long as the 2 competitions have no interaction.

.ak · 06-04-2013 9:53pm

Swiwi wrote: »

I enjoy both comps, better atmosphere in the HEC, generally (but definitely not always) a better standard of rugby in the SXV.

Not sure I agree with that, and I'm generally a SXV advocate. With both the competitions being so diluted by some very poor teams there's no definite. I would say generally speaking the knock out games in the H-Cup produces better rugby (and that's because handling skills isn't the be all and end all of rugby). But as a competition as a whole, then no, neither have a better standard than either imo.

matthew8 · 06-04-2013 10:06pm

I'd say the Super 15 is on a higher level by a fair bit. For one there's less of a spread of quality players. The best 3 rugby nations in the world having their players spread between 15 teams is going to produce better teams than the NH clubs, who have less quality players and more teams. The attitude is so much more positive too. All the time in the NH teams are just keeping the ball in the scrum begging for a penalty, which you don't typically see in the S15. More rugby is played. Higher tempo.

It has to be said too the conditions and pitch quality in the Super 15 are much better. So far this weekend the NH teams too have utilised some nice conditions to enable high scoring.

yimrsg · 06-04-2013 10:50pm

Don't know what it is but many of Super XV side's performances vary massively week from week, probably due to the touring and bye-weeks having big implications, many sides are looking jaded right about now. It's like watching the Top 14 where teams have home and away sides after some of the Jekyll and Hyde performances so far.

I think the breaks between the rounds in the HC and return to their domestic competition allow European sides to catch their breath a bit and up their game for the HC, it's very hard to do that in the Super XV as you've got variables like touring for weeks at a time and facing sides which could be in better condition after having a bye week. There's also the more restrictive 22 man squads versus 23 in the HC.

matthew8 · 06-04-2013 11:00pm

One tough thing to grasp about the S15 is just how far the teams have to travel to go to other countries. When South African teams have to go to New Zealand they're travelling half way around the world. It's like going from Ireland to Japan. I pity the Western force, there's no other team that's even within one timezone of them.

JustinDee · 06-04-2013 11:24pm

Who cares though? Europeans are not the target audience of Super Rugby. It is there to develop/promote the game in each respective region via affinity. Being better or worse than the ERC competitions is rather irrelevant, I'd feel unless discussing the national sides.

Morf · 07-04-2013 4:04am

Couple of points.

Nice to see a try with a forward pass being ruled-out by the TMO. I think I've seen about 4 or 5 tries recently with forward looking passes that were checked by TMO that were let go.

Kaplan let absolutely anything go at the breakdown between the Canes and Waratahs. This allowed Ardie Savea to may hay. Plenty of times I could see Tahs players looking at as if "aren't you going to blow this?".

Ma'a Nonu is not a very clever player. Possibly could have gotten a second yellow just for stupidity. That and it seems every team he goes to develops a very bad attitude problem. I think the Canes and Blues are very glad to be rid of him.

Swiwi · 07-04-2013 8:27am

JustinDee wrote: »

Who cares though? Europeans are not the target audience of Super Rugby. It is there to develop/promote the game in each respective region via affinity. Being better or worse than the ERC competitions is rather irrelevant, I'd feel unless discussing the national sides.

I agree. There's no point going too far down the "which comp is better" pathway, because it always ends in tears...or infractions.

I don't ever see the winner of the SXV playing the winner of the HEC (if the HEC continues), so it'll remain a topic of debate. As yimrsg points out the HEC is an intermittent comp, whereas the SXV is week by week (with the break for the June test matches), and with the travel, I think they're right that that leads to variable performances by all teams. At the end of the day, you have to win maybe 50% of away games to qualify for the knockout stages.

Swiwi · 08-04-2013 2:38pm

Games of the week: lots of good match-ups this week, but Blues v Canes and Stormers v Sharks would seem the pick of the bunch. Both Savea brothers were in great form for the Canes & Braid v A.Savea should be a good battle. J.Savea just gets better & better - watch out Ireland! I expect both brothers to feature in a black jersey at some stage. Stormers, despite being a good side, are in a bit of a must-win game this weekend with the Sharks.

Pudsy33 · 08-04-2013 2:46pm

Im excited for Chiefs vs Reds

.ak · 08-04-2013 2:59pm

How did Saders manage to lose the game on Friday? I missed it. Were Sharks really good?

Super Rugby [Super 15] - General Discussion Thread

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