cross on Carrauntoohil cut down

hiddenmongoose · 22-11-2014 7:22pm #1

why would anybody go to the lengths to climb up to cut the cross down ? honestly why would you do something like that?

fits · 22-11-2014 7:29pm

There is a theory that the metal in the cross mast just failed. And its not implausible. Pretty windy up there after all.

captainwang · 22-11-2014 7:38pm

It looks very much like it was cut with an angle grinder unfortunately from the pictures. Rust isn't shiny like that.

fits · 22-11-2014 7:40pm

Saw this on after hours. Pole failing under load. I honestly think its the most likely explanation. hell of a job to carry cutting equipment up there.

http://polescentral.acuitybrands.com/Images/pdf%20images/wind_loading_harmonics___Wind_Induced_Vibrations_I_2.jpg

laoch na mona · 22-11-2014 8:26pm

this is my favorite non news story ever, honestly who is sad enough to get upset over an archaic symbol of holy Ireland being removed
and likewise who is sad enough to climb a mountain just to cut down a poxy cross

groovyg · 22-11-2014 8:40pm

Its odd that somebody would go to the bother of carrying an angle grinder up there to cut it down.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cross-on-summit-of-carrauntoohil-cut-down-1.2011907

Dunno what that Kerry county councilor is smoking tho!!

Kerry county councillor John Joe Culloty who earlier this year proposed a crucifix be hung in the council chamber in Killarney, said the cutting of the cross was a further step in the move towards “a Godless society”.

Mr Culloty said he had not known the cross had been cut down and expressed disappointment at the news. He would be doing all in his power to have the cross reinstated he said.
Mr Culloty said Christianity and Catholicism was the religion of the majority of the people and references to it were enshrined in the Constitution.

But he claimed both the Taoiseach and the President had last Christmas made speeches without reference to God, making it “very clear what is coming down the tracks”. This he explained was a reference to the State moving away from its Christian ethos and people having “to give up everything in an attempt to become secular”.

He said he saw the removal of the cross as part of a drive to “allow what is not normal and to become normal”. He said he meant abortion, gay

Its pure vandalism, it was only a few weeks ago that somebody sent me pics on fb of marked boulders in yellow paint all the way up to Carrauntoohil via heavenly gates.

Alun · 22-11-2014 9:32pm

I'm going to be a bit controversial here and say that it shouldn't have been put there in the first place. Things like that, and I don't just mean crosses, simply don't belong on the top of mountains.

BarryD · 22-11-2014 9:45pm

What about passage graves then Alun? Should they be bulldozed!!

I'd be concerned about John Joe Culloty etc., though - can you imagine what equipment they might want to bring up there to reinstate it.

I'd view it as vandalism as whether we like it or not, the mountain is in private ownership and the local people who live in that district saw fit to put it up for their own reasons.

More controversial perhaps are the placement of footbridges to assist walkers and/or carparks. And what about what seems to be a growing thing of having a personal memorial erected - 'So and so loved these hills, RIP' etc.?

BarryD · 22-11-2014 9:53pm

Probably used something like this http://www.ie.screwfix.com/makita-dga452z-4-angle-grinder-18v-bare-a13ec5.html

Here's the photo - who knows??

riffmongous · 22-11-2014 10:08pm

It's private land and anything that threatens the relationship between walkers and landowners should be condemned imo

loobylou · 23-11-2014 9:39am

It was pig ugly, the mountain will be a better place without it.
Personally hope its not replaced, but if it is (as I suspect), how about a stone celtic cross which may at least blend somewhat into its environment.

23-11-2014 10:46am

Read the Pat Falvey status update on it.

It went like this.

Pat Falvey Pat Falvey Pat Falvey Pat Falvey cross cut Pat Falvey Pat Falvey.

fits · 23-11-2014 10:53am

Deleted User wrote: »

Read the Pat Falvey status update on it.

It went like this.

Pat Falvey Pat Falvey Pat Falvey Pat Falvey cross cut Pat Falvey Pat Falvey.

lol!

fits · 23-11-2014 10:58am

BarryD wrote: »

More controversial perhaps are the placement of footbridges to assist walkers and/or carparks.

I wouldnt have any objection to these at all. Have visited places like Slovenia which have high altitude huts and via ferrata cabling installed, and New Zealand which just has a fantastic well maintained, well marked hiking infrastructure in place. I wish we could open up the tracks in Ireland even more.

Smartly Dressed · 23-11-2014 11:00am

Without wanting to sound militant, I hope it's the first of many to be cut down.

Lately I've observed a growing trend in my locality of people leaving religious paraphernalia and framed RIP notes to the deceased on top of mountains. I find it to be quite a selfish practice.

jank · 23-11-2014 2:33pm

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

Without wanting to sound militant, I hope it's the first of many to be cut down.

Lately I've observed a growing trend in my locality of people leaving religious paraphernalia and framed RIP notes to the deceased on top of mountains. I find it to be quite a selfish practice.

Why?

Do you think these are selfish too?

W1ll1s · 23-11-2014 2:48pm

To be quite honest,that looks better than a old rusty cross...

camlinhall · 23-11-2014 2:55pm

BarryD wrote: »

Probably used something like this http://www.ie.screwfix.com/makita-dga452z-4-angle-grinder-18v-bare-a13ec5.html

Here's the photo - who knows??

I was thinking portable generator and Sherpas.. but yes, a cordless might do it before the battery dies

Smartly Dressed · 23-11-2014 3:28pm

jank wrote: »

Why?

Do you think these are selfish too?

Yes I do. As people, we just can't seem to leave anything alone. We feel compelled to leave our (ugly) mark everywhere we go, whether it's by throwing pennies in a stream or blemishing stunning landscape with prayer flags and crosses. I don't want to see a framed, glass and plastic reminder that ''Lady Smith died on the 5th of October 2003, aged 4" every time I reach the top of a particular mountain. It's not that I don't feel sympathy, I just think it's inappropriate to leave things like that on public property.

I know a lot of these traditions are about socialising with future generations and interacting with the past, but it should be done in designated sites and definitely not by throwing a religious symbol on the top of a mountain.

Hugh_C · 23-11-2014 6:28pm

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

Yes I do. As people, we just can't seem to leave anything alone. We feel compelled to leave our (ugly) mark everywhere we go, whether it's by throwing pennies in a stream or blemishing stunning landscape with prayer flags and crosses. I don't want to see a framed, glass and plastic reminder that ''Lady Smith died on the 5th of October 2003, aged 4" every time I reach the top of a particular mountain. It's not that I don't feel sympathy, I just think it's inappropriate to leave things like that on public property.

I know a lot of these traditions are about socialising with future generations and interacting with the past, but it should be done in designated sites and definitely not by throwing a religious symbol on the top of a mountain.

To be fair on Sherpa and western climbers/trekkers who have left prayer flags in the photo above (at Dukla Pass if I'm not mistaken, one of the most moving places I've been), they last maybe a year before disintegrating and disappearing. They're transitory. The cross on the other hands is/was a lot more permanent and iconic. I think it should not be re-erected, I think it should be replaced by a stone carving/monument by a local artist depicting something that isn't as divisive and represents all aspects of the community.

a148pro · 23-11-2014 9:32pm

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

Lately I've observed a growing trend in my locality of people leaving religious paraphernalia and framed RIP notes to the deceased on top of mountains. I find it to be quite a selfish practice.

I couldn't disagree more. I feel close to my God (i.e. nature) when I'm in those kind of places. I also feel really really alive. So when I see a memorial to someone else, who probably loved the mountains too, it reminds me of how important it is to live my life to the full and do stuff like that more often.

As long as either of them aren't done gaudily I don't mind. I think its a bit selfish to want it all to yourself.

BarryD · 23-11-2014 9:43pm

Yes, but you wouldn't want a whole clatter of memorials either, would you?? It could get out of hand if everyone did it?

Odelay · 23-11-2014 10:12pm

Alun wrote: »

I'm going to be a bit controversial here and say that it shouldn't have been put there in the first place. Things like that, and I don't just mean crosses, simply don't belong on the top of mountains.

If they had to put something there a simple sculpture to acknowledge the hard work of the kerry mountain rescue might be more appropriate.

riffmongous · 23-11-2014 10:34pm

What's wrong with the old countryside code, leave property as it is and leave nothing behind but footprints?

robp · 23-11-2014 11:39pm

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

Without wanting to sound militant, I hope it's the first of many to be cut down.

Lately I've observed a growing trend in my locality of people leaving religious paraphernalia and framed RIP notes to the deceased on top of mountains. I find it to be quite a selfish practice.

Well it is militant and criminal too. The cross is a landmark on private land. I am all for maintaining untouched wilderness but Carrauntoohil is just not suitable for that. Anyway there is a certain dishonestly trying to remove all human traces there- the spot is steeped in human cultural significance.

From an aesthetic point of view the cross added a lot. Those who complain that a cross is divisive are being unreasonable precious. Why not leave Carrauntoohil as it is, cross and all.

If they had to put something there a simple sculpture to acknowledge the hard work of the kerry mountain rescue might be more appropriate.

The cross did acknowledge important local figures.

jank · 24-11-2014 1:05am

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

Yes I do. As people, we just can't seem to leave anything alone. We feel compelled to leave our (ugly) mark everywhere we go, whether it's by throwing pennies in a stream or blemishing stunning landscape with prayer flags and crosses. I don't want to see a framed, glass and plastic reminder that ''Lady Smith died on the 5th of October 2003, aged 4" every time I reach the top of a particular mountain. It's not that I don't feel sympathy, I just think it's inappropriate to leave things like that on public property.

I know a lot of these traditions are about socialising with future generations and interacting with the past, but it should be done in designated sites and definitely not by throwing a religious symbol on the top of a mountain.

I see your point to an extent. However, humans by nature have left their mark on this planet in various forms of monuments, buildings and memorials. The Taj Mahal was built as a memorial to someones dead wife? Perhaps we should bulldoze it? The pyramids were burial sites for dead pharaohs. We should leave the desert alone! Newgrange and Stonehenge Etc...etc..

When people climb mountains it means different things to different people. For some its purely a physical feat, for others the meaning is almost entirely spiritual. We are all different and we should respect that. Therefore being militant about leaving memorials or religious symbols is not really a respect for other humans it is actually a manifestation of militarism and selfishness of itself. We should be tolerant of others even though we may not agree 100% of the means.

Anyone who has been to Tibet will recognise how much devastation and destruction the Chinese communists wreaked on the country especially its cultural and religious symbols of Tibetan Buddhism. I do not agree with many aspect of this religion but I respect that people have a right to it and would never go out of my way to deface or defile such monuments. The Chinese did this as part of 'liberating' and 'freeing' Tibet from superstition. Some 90% of monasteries were destroyed in the cultural revolution including in places of geographical significance like Everest base camp. This period of time was called "The Great Leap Forward" in China.

Nobody is saying that we should build a Burger King up on a mountain top, or have the place littered with hundreds of memorial picture's. If the problem was that bad then a solution could be marked out. However, the odd one here or there doesn't bother me personally and the cross itself is of cultural significance to the people of the surrounding land. You may not agree with it but that does not mean you have a right or a mandate to cut it down.

BreadnBuddha · 24-11-2014 9:21am

That ugly pox of a cross was erected in the late 1970's. It was hideous.

I'm delighted it's been dropped and saddened at the prospect of some gob****e holy joe clown pushing hard enough to get it repaired or replaced.

You want to stick a cross on your living room wall or build a new chapel down the road, fire away. More power to you. Just leave that crap off the mountains.

From boots full of concrete to park benches to crosses, none of it has any place on a mountain.

Lucidly54 · 24-11-2014 10:16am

I am amazed no-body has cashed in on it and seen the potential for miracles and mirages and cures and stuff - Carrauntoohil could have been the Medujore of Ireland ( before the Cross was cut down) and all these boring Holy Mary and Holy Joe mountain clmbers could have had another dimension to running up and down damp mountains on a Saturday morning returning only with smelly socks and grazed knuckles. There could have been a far off mystical stare in the eyes.

From a local point of view there could be holy water straight from the streams being sold in bottles and these sheep farmers from the Gap and their mountain guides are so cute normally ( in a money making sense, one must stress) it is just incredible they let this opportunity slip.....and being non-salty,

24-11-2014 10:52am

I really hope they find the lads who did it...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...and get them to work on wind turbines...

robp · 24-11-2014 11:59am

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

That ugly pox of a cross was erected in the late 1970's. It was hideous.

I'm delighted it's been dropped and saddened at the prospect of some gob****e holy joe clown pushing hard enough to get it repaired or replaced.

You want to stick a cross on your living room wall or build a new chapel down the road, fire away. More power to you. Just leave that crap off the mountains.

From boots full of concrete to park benches to crosses, none of it has any place on a mountain.

You really are a parody of yourself. I'd advise you not to comment on areas outside your expertise. By insisting on the mountain being its mountainty self you want to impose your own fanciful ideal of what a mountain should be, destroying any heritage in the process. From a legal perspective the fact the cross is 20 th century changes nothing.

I hope the thugs who did this are prosecuted. We don't value our heritage enough in the country. A year ago some scumbags went out of their way to smash a medieval cross in Dunsany Meath. This trend has to be combated.

Yawlboy · 24-11-2014 12:20pm

did it have planning permission in the first place?

cross on Carrauntoohil cut down

Comments