Heineken Cup - General Discussion Thread

Burgo · 20-11-2011 5:23pm

durkadurka wrote: »

Who do we want to win?

Montpellier, stuck a few quid on them

Big Nelly · 20-11-2011 5:23pm

wixfjord wrote: »

Don't care what people say, Donald is a classy player.
No shame not being Dan Carter.

Some of hsi passes and touches today are pure class alright

Should have been a peno and red card there. Ref was unsighted but touch judge was 2 ft away and said nothing

Didnt even need to see the replay to see it.

Big Nelly · 20-11-2011 5:47pm

A draw now would be great:D

thomond2006 · 20-11-2011 5:48pm

Bath win 16-13

wixfjord · 20-11-2011 5:48pm

Bath win.
Not too bad of a result tbh.
Montpellier will be well out by the time we get them last, and I don't think Bath are any great shakes at all.
Only thing is that we have them up first.

matthew8 · 20-11-2011 5:49pm

I'm surprised Bath got away with that there, they basically held the ball in the same ruck for 30 seconds to let the clock run out.

tolosenc · 20-11-2011 5:50pm

matthew8 wrote: »

I'm surprised Bath got away with that there, they basically held the ball in the same ruck for 30 seconds to let the clock run out.

I'm surprised Montpellier didn't go for the drop as soon as it was on.

matthew8 · 20-11-2011 5:52pm

tolosenc wrote: »

I'm surprised Montpellier didn't go for the drop as soon as it was on.

They didn't have very long to do it and I'm sure they would've wanted to wait until injury time anyway.

shuffol · 20-11-2011 6:03pm

Same story as Clermont last season, Leinster will be in the driving seat if they can take more points off Bath than they take off them in the double header. But no doubt about it Leinster should be going there expecting to win.

wixfjord · 20-11-2011 6:30pm

shuffol wrote: »

Same story as Clermont last season, Leinster will be in the driving seat if they can take more points off Bath than they take off them in the double header. But no doubt about it Leinster should be going there expecting to win.

Indeed.
A win away at Bath first would be huge though, both in terms of the group and of a possible home QF. If for example we got a LBP and won the second game, we'd probably looking at a far lower seed if we won the group.

I'd expect quite a few guys to be rested against Treviso, and a fairly fullish squad against Cardiff in the RDS the week after.

Would like to see Madigan get a start next week.

Also, did anyone notice the Irish guys being taken off in the last game or two. Rotation is definitely needed this year, and I'd expect the likes of SOB, Heaslip, Ross, Healy etc to get a lot less gametime.

iroced · 20-11-2011 6:34pm

Couldn't follow the Montpellier game. Just saw the disastrous beginning (10-0 after a couple of min). French media are saying that we can be a bit disappointed as we could have turned the game and won it. But I read that our try is spoiled by 2 forward passes... Ah a LBP is better than nothing.
Hopefully these 2 HEC games have raised our confidence for the TOP14 (apparently our scrum was very good). That should be our main target this season, try to come back up and play HEC next year again. With this year experience we'll have a better chance.

In the end, as I expected, it's going to be an easy group for Leinster. You have more quality, more depth in the squad and more experience.

matthew8 · 20-11-2011 6:46pm

iroced wrote: »

Couldn't follow the Montpellier game. Just saw the disastrous beginning (10-0 after a couple of min). French media are saying that we can be a bit disappointed as we could have turned the game and won it. But I read that our try is spoiled by 2 forward passes... Ah a LBP is better than nothing.
Hopefully these 2 HEC games have raised our confidence for the TOP14 (apparently our scrum was very good). That should be our main target this season, try to come back up and play HEC next year again. With this year experience we'll have a better chance.

In the end, as I expected, it's going to be an easy group for Leinster. You have more quality, more depth in the squad and more experience.

Your scrum killed Bath's, Trinh-Duc played well again, only complaint I had about your performancewas Ouedraego was fairly anonymous. Still, from the first 2 games 3 points won't get you anywhere, it will take a miracle to get out of the pool, only way I can see you doing that is if you beat us.

iroced · 20-11-2011 6:54pm

matthew8 wrote: »

Still, from the first 2 games 3 points won't get you anywhere, it will take a miracle to get out of the pool, only way I can see you doing that is if you beat us.

Yeah, you're probably right. But there will be no shame of not getting out of this group for us. It's our first ever participation in the competition and we "prepared" it the worst possible way putting ourself in a very uncomfortable position in the TOP 14 and getting to the opening game against the defending champion in a complete unknown form (no confidence in the team + return of the internationals). It turned out to be a fantastic performance for us that could well be a new starting point in our season.

Then, if we win our 2 remaining home games and get a LBP in Glasgow, I'll be fairly happy. And if you win all your games we could finish second which would already be an achievement.

Big Nelly · 20-11-2011 7:02pm

wixfjord wrote: »

Also, did anyone notice the Irish guys being taken off in the last game or two. Rotation is definitely needed this year, and I'd expect the likes of SOB, Heaslip, Ross, Healy etc to get a lot less gametime.

Its going to have to be done after the WC and they will be all burned out by the end of season and we will win nothing.

I called at half time to empty the bench and thankful it happened. I would of liked to see Madigan get more game time. It took Sexton to have a nasty head clash to see him been taken off. Should have been off before that. Looked sore as well. He was still rubbing his head and wincing on the bench a good 15 mins after coming off

matthew8 · 20-11-2011 7:19pm

iroced wrote: »

Yeah, you're probably right. But there will be no shame of not getting out of this group for us. It's our first ever participation in the competition and we "prepared" it the worst possible way putting ourself in a very uncomfortable position in the TOP 14 and getting to the opening game against the defending champion in a complete unknown form (no confidence in the team + return of the internationals). It turned out to be a fantastic performance for us that could well be a new starting point in our season.

Then, if we win our 2 remaining home games and get a LBP in Glasgow, I'll be fairly happy. And if you win all your games we could finish second which would already be an achievement.

You'll get more than a losing bonus point in Glasgow, I'm fairly sure of that.

totallegend · 20-11-2011 8:42pm

matthew8 wrote: »

You'll get more than a losing bonus point in Glasgow, I'm fairly sure of that.

Don't mind iroced, he knows exactly how good Montpellier are! Before the Leinster game, he was on here giving it all this about how he expected Leinster to wipe the floor with them, just an honour to be playing the champions of Europe etc, and then the team come out and steamroller us... The lad could teach the Kerry footballers a lesson in cute hoorism

At this very early stage, I'm expecting the pool winners to be:
P1: Scarlets; it's theirs to lose, if they come out even in the head to head with Munster they're in the driving seat.
P2: Cardiff; as with Scarlets, coming out even of the head to head with Edinburgh should see them top the group.
P3: Leinster; but the pool could be tighter than we all thought it would be.
P4: Clermont; tight pool but their squad is so deep and strong that they have to be favourites.
P5: Saracens; despite the loss yesterday, I think they'll edge it
P6: Toulouse; as for Clermont, a ridiculously deep squad.

I think Munster and Biarritz will be the best runners-up.

matthew8 · 20-11-2011 9:13pm

totallegend wrote: »

Don't mind iroced, he knows exactly how good Montpellier are! Before the Leinster game, he was on here giving it all this about how he expected Leinster to wipe the floor with them, just an honour to be playing the champions of Europe etc, and then the team come out and steamroller us... The lad could teach the Kerry footballers a lesson in cute hoorism

At this very early stage, I'm expecting the pool winners to be:
P1: Scarlets; it's theirs to lose, if they come out even in the head to head with Munster they're in the driving seat.
P2: Cardiff; as with Scarlets, coming out even of the head to head with Edinburgh should see them top the group.
P3: Leinster; but the pool could be tighter than we all thought it would be.
P4: Clermont; tight pool but their squad is so deep and strong that they have to be favourites.
P5: Saracens; despite the loss yesterday, I think they'll edge it
P6: Toulouse; as for Clermont, a ridiculously deep squad.

I think Munster and Biarritz will be the best runners-up.

I wouldn't be so sure about the Scarlets. This season's campaign is a carbon copy of the one 2 years ago, though against better opposition. A win against the French team first, followed by a shock win in England and then they play Munster twice. And we all remember what Leinster did to them then.

wixfjord · 20-11-2011 9:14pm

matthew8 wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure about the Scarlets. This season's campaign is a carbon copy of the one 2 years ago, though against better opposition. A win against the French team first, followed by a shock win in England and then they play Munster twice. And we all remember what Leinster did to them then.

They're a better team than then though, and have beaten better teams too.

durkadurka · 20-11-2011 9:24pm

I reckon munster will 'munster' them at least 6 points to 4 in the double header. Munster will then kill castres at home leaving them needing something to get in Northampton to qualify or win the group.

iroced · 20-11-2011 9:24pm

totallegend wrote: »

Don't mind iroced, he knows exactly how good Montpellier are! Before the Leinster game, he was on here giving it all this about how he expected Leinster to wipe the floor with them, just an honour to be playing the champions of Europe etc, and then the team come out and steamroller us... The lad could teach the Kerry footballers a lesson in cute hoorism

Haha ! I'll just correct you "I know exactly how good Montpellier can be"

.
But, if you had seen any of Montpellier's games before the Leinster one, you couldn't honestly say that our display was not a big surprise.

And yes, it was an honour for the club to play the champions of Europe on our first ever H Cup game. They actually made a special jersey to celebrate it

. And, we stepped up to the event by playing our best game of the season by far, which makes me very proud of my team.
But, despite our great game, we could only play for 60 min. You crushed us in the last 20 min during which I almost couldn't breathe as I was seeing Leinster coming closer and closer and closer.... And despite our heroic defense, you would have won "easily" if you had not commited so many attacking mistakes (bad passes, forward passes, knock on, bad inspiration, etc...).

Then, after 2 games the so-called champions of Europe are well ahead (despite not having played their best rugby). Glasgow beat Bath letting them take the LBP. Bath beat us and we got the LBP. You destroyed Glasgow.
So, I don't think I'm really underestimating my team's potential in saying that we should beat both Glasgow and Bath at home and get a LBP in Glasgow (an away victory is always tough in H Cup so it'll be a surprise if we get it). I'm expecting nothing from Dublin where we'll be hammered (I mean last year you beat Racing 38-22, Clermont 24-8 and Saracens 43-20, we're not in the same league as these clubs unless maybe Racing), unless you're already sure of having a home QF and put a second team out to rest your key players. And, yes, I think it's gonna be an "easy" group for Leinster

.

greendom · 20-11-2011 9:27pm

wixfjord wrote: »

Bath win.
Not too bad of a result tbh.
Montpellier will be well out by the time we get them last, and I don't think Bath are any great shakes at all.
Only thing is that we have them up first.

How do you work that one out? 2 games against Glasgow and a home game against Bath - they could quite easily be on 15 points

wixfjord · 20-11-2011 9:29pm

greendom wrote: »

How do you work that one out? 2 games against Glasgow and a home game against Bath - they could quite easily be on 15 points

They're in the bottom 3 of the French league, and will more than likely throw in the towel after today.
They're more than likely out, and even if they aren't, they won't beat us in the Aviva at that stage of the year.
They've Toulouse at home and Biarritz (fellow strugglers) away before the next two rounds, are away to Glasgow first, and have Metro and Brive after the double header. The two Glasgee games will be the very least of their worries.

durkadurka · 20-11-2011 9:33pm

They're playing us in the rds, which is worse for them I think.

I suspect that Glasgow might front up at home to them.

I've said since the draw that bath away is the key game in terms of getting a home qf. Win that and we can book the aviva for 9th aPril or whenever.

wixfjord · 20-11-2011 9:34pm

durkadurka wrote: »

They're playing us in the rds, which is worse for them I think.

I suspect that Glasgow might front up at home to them.

Has that been announced yeah re RDS?
Certainly won't beat us there.

durkadurka · 20-11-2011 9:37pm

wixfjord wrote: »

Has that been announced yeah re RDS?
Certainly won't beat us there.

They are contracted to play 12 games in rds, which is 10 league games and two hec games. Only allows two regular season games to move to aviva. So yeah it's defo in rds.

wixfjord · 20-11-2011 9:40pm

durkadurka wrote: »

They are contracted to play 12 games in rds, which is 10 league games and two hec games. Only allows two regular season games to move to aviva. So yeah it's defo in rds.

Ah I see, probably wouldn't sell out anyway.

durkadurka · 20-11-2011 9:43pm

We filled or nearly filled aviva four times last year. I reckon you couldnt go to the well much more. Today didn't sell out for example because so many occasional match goers are going to the aviva games.

Taco Corp · 20-11-2011 9:58pm

wixfjord wrote: »

Robson is unbearable at all times.

I didn't see the match and therefore didn't hear Robson but eh.....FYP

.ak · 21-11-2011 12:44am

Pity for Montpellier. Thought they were the better team in the second half. Would've loved a draw from a Leinster perspective.

irishbucsfan · 21-11-2011 12:57am

totallegend wrote: »

P3: Leinster; but the pool could be tighter than we all thought it would be.

I actually think it will end up suiting Leinster perfectly from here on out:

Round 3
Leinster beat Bath in Bath, no BP
Glasgow beat Montpellier in Glasgow, LBP for Montpellier

Round 4
Leinster beat Bath in Dublin, bonus point (Bath will give up)
Montpellier beat Glasgow in Montpellier, LBP for Glasgow

After those games; Leinster 15, Glasgow 9, Montpellier 7, Bath 6

Round 5
Leinster beat Glasgow in Glasgow, no BP
Montpellier beat Bath in Montpellier, no BP

After those games; Leinster 19, Montpellier 11, Glasgow 9, Bath 6

Leinster qualify with 1 game to spare, only have to beat a disinterested Montpellier in the Aviva to secure #1 or 2 seeding.

Obviously things are never as simple as this, but I think it's quite likely to be what happens.

Heineken Cup - General Discussion Thread

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