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Cyclist awarded €15,000 after thumb almost broken by road-rage bus driver

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    #2
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    you can't do someone for ALMOST doing something can you?


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    #3
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    There is also a thread going on this over in Cycling

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056534445

    Suffice it to say this gentleman's behavour in using a footpath to overtake a stopped bus is not winning him any favours in that forum.


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    #4
    Mr Simpson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    corktina wrote: »
    you can't do someone for ALMOST doing something can you?

    It was ALMOST broken, the muscles and ligaments were torn though


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    #5
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    mmcn90 wrote: »
    It was ALMOST broken, the muscles and ligaments were torn though
    That case must be why so many BE buses no longer drop off passengers before O'Connell bridge, some still stop on Eden Quay. Suffice to say the driver had no right to touch the cyclist and should not have attacked him or knocked his phone from his hand! Will this guy be sacked from Bus Eireann over this?


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    #6
    Mr Simpson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    That case must be why so many BE buses no longer drop off passengers before O'Connell bridge, some still stop on Eden Quay. Suffice to say the driver had no right to touch the cyclist and should not have attacked him or knocked his phone from his hand! Will this guy be sacked from Bus Eireann over this?

    The article says the driver could not be served with notice of trial as he is in prison, I would imagine this means he no longer works for BE.

    On a side note, I wonder did he ever work for BE or was he one of the many drivers driving buses leased to BE from private industry.


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    #7
    Patser
    Registered Users Posts: 7,947 ✭✭✭Patser


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    That case must be why so many BE buses no longer drop off passengers before O'Connell bridge, some still stop on Eden Quay. Suffice to say the driver had no right to touch the cyclist and should not have attacked him or knocked his phone from his hand! Will this guy be sacked from Bus Eireann over this?


    I'm a Bus Eireann driver based in Broadstone and don't recognise his name or of hearing anything about him. I'd be fairly sure that if one of our driver's was jailed for anything, the gossip would have flown around the place.

    Also the article mentions that the driver was out of the bus helping to unload passengers' luggae. This isn't the norm for BE drivers, we're told not to leave the cab unless really to assist someone struggling with luggage or disabled.

    So my gut instinct is that this guy might be a private hire for BE, which makes me wonder why BE are being held accountable.


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    #8
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    mmcn90 wrote: »
    The article says the driver could not be served with notice of trial as he is in prison, I would imagine this means he no longer works for BE.
    You'd never know, he could be on a career break while in prison! :)

    There's another thread here about how IE had on staff a lad with convictions for assault and possession of weapons.


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    #9
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Patser wrote: »
    I'm a Bus Eireann driver based in Broadstone and don't recognise his name or of hearing anything about him. I'd be fairly sure that if one of our driver's was jailed for anything, the gossip would have flown around the place.

    Also the article mentions that the driver was out of the bus helping to unload passengers' luggae. This isn't the norm for BE drivers, we're told not to leave the cab unless really to assist someone struggling with luggage or disabled.

    So my gut instinct is that this guy might be a private hire for BE, which makes me wonder why BE are being held accountable.
    yes it looks more like it was an "on-hire to Bus Eireann" service as all Bus Eireann coaches have automatic luggage doors and drivers usually dont need to help with luggage. Bus Eireann are still being held accountable as they provided the service regardless of who they employed to provide and drive the bus! They would also be accountable if one of those on-hire buses crashed.


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    #10
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    read this in todays Indo.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/cyclist-awarded-15000-after-thumb-almost-broken-by-roadrage-bus-driver-3003900.html

    the driver was out of line to break his thumb, but should the cyclist have been on the footpath in the first place? This seems to be acceptable. I can well imagine the situation- you are standing on the footpath waiting to get your bag out of the bus when some cyclist goes to mow you down. sure you would be safer standing in the middle of the road.

    I can understand the drivers anger and find the 'victim' a little too self-righteous.


    oops, I see its already being discussed.


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    #11
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    the driver was out of line to break his thumb, but should the cyclist have been on the footpath in the first place? This seems to be acceptable. I can well imagine the situation- you are standing on the footpath waiting to get your bag out of the bus when some cyclist goes to mow you down. sure you would be safer standing in the middle of the road.

    I can understand the drivers anger and find the 'victim' a little too self-righteous.


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    #12
    Tarabuses
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Tarabuses


    "Mr Burns told the court he had cycled to and from work for 20 years and on August 28, 2009, had ridden up on the footpath at Bachelor's Walk, Dublin, to pass a coach parked on the street outside the Arlington Hotel."

    This gives the impression that ridding on the footpath to pass the parked coach is quite normal behaviour.


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    #13
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    Tarabuses wrote: »
    "Mr Burns told the court he had cycled to and from work for 20 years and on August 28, 2009, had ridden up on the footpath at Bachelor's Walk, Dublin, to pass a coach parked on the street outside the Arlington Hotel."

    This gives the impression that ridding on the footpath to pass the parked coach is quite normal behaviour.

    it is for some people and they see neither harm nor wrong in doing it. I do it myself sometimes but never on busy footpath such as people getting on or off a bus and I always yield and give space to any pedestrian. After all, I am encroaching on their space. couriers have deadlines to meet. too bad if you get in the way.I strongly suspect our hero was not paying heed to unfortunate pedestrians in his way. the driver was probably defending his passengers.


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    #14
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    the driver was out of line to break his thumb, but should the cyclist have been on the footpath in the first place? This seems to be acceptable. I can well imagine the situation- you are standing on the footpath waiting to get your bag out of the bus when some cyclist goes to mow you down. sure you would be safer standing in the middle of the road.

    I can understand the drivers anger and find the 'victim' a little too self-righteous.

    As I said on the cycling board:

    I hate cyclists on footpaths, but I'd choice them on the footpaths any day over having to stand in the middle of most of the roads around Dublin.

    He did not get 15k for cycling on a footpath, he got 15k because he was assaulted by bus driver while he was working.


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    #15
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Tarabuses wrote: »
    "Mr Burns told the court he had cycled to and from work for 20 years and on August 28, 2009, had ridden up on the footpath at Bachelor's Walk, Dublin, to pass a coach parked on the street outside the Arlington Hotel."

    This gives the impression that ridding on the footpath to pass the parked coach is quite normal behaviour.
    Or that as an experienced cyclist he preferred to mount the footpath and dismount and walk past the bus rather than try to cycle out into the lane of traffic.
    Fuinseog wrote: »
    it is for some people and they see neither harm nor wrong in doing it. I do it myself sometimes but never on busy footpath such as people getting on or off a bus and I always yield and give space to any pedestrian. After all, I am encroaching on their space. couriers have deadlines to meet. too bad if you get in the way.I strongly suspect our hero was not paying heed to unfortunate pedestrians in his way. the driver was probably defending his passengers.

    I would think that he cycled up on the footpath and slowed down as it would be almost impossible to cycle on that stretch of footpath as the hotel has items of street furniture on the street, i would say he got off his bike once on the footpath and walked it past the bus where he was approached by the bus driver?


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    #16
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    ... i would say he got off his bike once on the footpath and walked it past the bus where he was approached by the bus driver?

    Maybe, if he was walking why would the driver confront him? That doesn't really add up either.

    I'm guessing he cycled on the path to get round the bus, (then dismounted or not) gave out as he passed to the driver who was parked on double yellow in a bus lanes, words were exchanged, or then after that he got off the bike, to talk to the driver, take a photo etc. Who knows. Pity the newspaper didn't print more info about it. We're all left wondering.


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    #17
    Tarabuses
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Tarabuses


    BostonB wrote: »
    Maybe, if he was walking why would the driver confront him? That doesn't really add up either.

    I'm guessing he cycled on the path to get round the bus, (then dismounted or not) gave out as he passed to the driver who was parked on double yellow in a bus lanes, words were exchanged, or then after that he got off the bike, to talk to the driver, take a photo etc. Who knows. Pity the newspaper didn't print more info about it. We're all left wondering.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Or that as an experienced cyclist he preferred to mount the footpath and dismount and walk past the bus rather than try to cycle out into the lane of traffic.



    I would think that he cycled up on the footpath and slowed down as it would be almost impossible to cycle on that stretch of footpath as the hotel has items of street furniture on the street, i would say he got off his bike once on the footpath and walked it past the bus where he was approached by the bus driver?

    Nowhere in the reports is there any mention of Mr Burns dismounting. I cannot see the point of speculating in this way.


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    #18
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    Tarabuses wrote: »
    Nowhere in the reports is there any mention of Mr Burns dismounting. I cannot see the point of speculating in this way.

    If you were familiar with foggylad's oeuvre you would see the point.


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    #19
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Tarabuses wrote: »
    Nowhere in the reports is there any mention of Mr Burns dismounting. I cannot see the point of speculating in this way.

    That was kinda my point. We don't know the details of what happened. As usual its sensational report devoid of key facts.

    That said I'm not sure I could pick up my mobile from the ground, if on the bike.


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    #20
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    All we do know is that this driver is a thug who attacked a cyclist asaulting him and damaging his property who could not be served with papers relating to a civil case as he was in prison at the time!


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    #21
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    All we do know is that this driver is a thug who attacked a cyclist asaulting him and damaging his property who could not be served with papers relating to a civil case as he was in prison at the time!

    we also know that the victim was cycling on the path recklessly endangering peoples lives.
    he tried to take a picture of the driver without his permission. is that even legal? i know if I had a barney with someone and if they tried to take my picture I would be less than pleased.


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    #22
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    we also know that the victim was cycling on the path recklessly endangering peoples lives.
    he tried to take a picture of the driver without his permission. is that even legal? i know if I had a barney with someone and if they tried to take my picture I would be less than pleased.

    It says he was taking a photo of the registration. Where did you get he was taking a photo of a the driver from?


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    #23
    keithb93
    Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭keithb93


    The state of this country, 15 grand for a sore thumb! I might as well go around letting people break my fingers and then sue them. I would be rolling in the money.


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    #24
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    we also know that the victim was cycling on the path recklessly endangering peoples lives.
    he tried to take a picture of the driver without his permission. is that even legal? i know if I had a barney with someone and if they tried to take my picture I would be less than pleased.

    Yes, taking a picture of somebody in public is very much so legal. The report does not say he was taking a picture of the driver, but even if he was, there's nothing the driver can do but block his own face or walk away -- you do not need permission to take a photograph in a public street.

    keithb93 wrote: »
    The state of this country, 15 grand for a sore thumb! I might as well go around letting people break my fingers and then sue them. I would be rolling in the money.

    Nobody received 15k for a sore thumb, they received 15k because they were at the other end of the criminal act of assault.

    If you let people break your fingers it's not assault. :)


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    #25
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    this is the report from the indo which states that Burns took a photo of murray the driver.
    are you telling me at a road rage incident if the other guy tried to take your photo you would not get worked up. You should try it sometime.



    burns was out to get the driver sacked yet in my view Burns should be hauled before the court for reckless cycling. he should be fired as he sets a bad example for kids.the article states that people were standing about waiting to get their bags.


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/cyclist-awarded-15000-after-thumb-almost-broken-by-roadrage-bus-driver-3003900.html
    Tuesday January 31 2012
    A CYCLIST had his thumb almost broken deliberately in a road-rage incident.

    ...

    Mr Burns had gone around to the front of the coach and had pictured the registration on his phone before taking a photograph of Murray.

    ...


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    #26
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    That Murry chap sounds like a right thug! I wonder what he was in prison for? Will the new taxi laws include bus drivers with criminal convictions? This guy could be driving your kids to school!


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    #27
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    That Murry chap sounds like a right thug! I wonder what he was in prison for? Will the new taxi laws include bus drivers with criminal convictions? This guy could be driving your kids to school!

    and burns could be given your kids tips on how to cycle through the morning traffic.


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    #28
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    this is the report from the indo which states that Burns took a photo of murray the driver.

    Fair enough. As I said:

    Yes, taking a picture of somebody in public is very much so legal... but even if he was, there's nothing the driver can do but block his own face or walk away -- you do not need permission to take a photograph in a public street.
    Fuinseog wrote: »
    are you telling me at a road rage incident if the other guy tried to take your photo you would not get worked up. You should try it sometime.

    I'm saying I would not assault the other person.

    Fuinseog wrote: »
    burns was out to get the driver sacked yet in my view Burns should be hauled before the court for reckless cycling. he should be fired as he sets a bad example for kids.the article states that people were standing about waiting to get their bags.

    Why are you so concerned with cycling on a footpath when the driver assaulted the cyclist?

    How do you not understand that assault is far worse than cycling on a footpath?

    Burns was not working at the time -- why should he be sacked for something he does outside of work? :confused:


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    #29
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    burns was out to get the driver sacked yet in my view Burns should be hauled before the court for reckless cycling. he should be fired as he sets a bad example for kids.the article states that people were standing about waiting to get their bags.

    He was only trying to get past an illegally parked coach which was also illegally stopped where there was/is no stop for that coach and where passengers and the driver were causing an obstruction on the footpath,

    Rather than risk life and limb by pulling into the main traffic lane at possibly the busiest junction in the City he decided to mount the footpath which is several feet in width but the bus driver began shouting at him!


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    #30
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    Why are you so concerned with cycling on a footpath when the driver assaulted the cyclist?

    How do you not understand that assault is far worse than cycling on a footpath?

    Burns was not working at the time -- why should he be sacked for something he does outside of work? :confused:

    Burns works with kids. he should behave in a responsible manner whether he is in the childrens hospital or outside. what if he ran down a child on the footpath?
    I have been run down by cyclists while walking on the footpath. that colours my opinion. people like burns believe their ****e smells better than anyone elses and they believe they have a right to things like cycle on paths. they also believe pedestrians should get out of their way.
    someone takes a picture of me without asking, you never know how they are going to use it, and I would snatch their phone and delete the image.


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    #31
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    He was only trying to get past an illegally parked coach which was also illegally stopped where there was/is no stop for that coach and where passengers and the driver were causing an obstruction on the footpath,

    Rather than risk life and limb by pulling into the main traffic lane at possibly the busiest junction in the City he decided to mount the footpath which is several feet in width but the bus driver began shouting at him!

    I cycle and drive, but what Burns did was not responsible and it was dangerous. I am not getting out of the way of any cyclist when I am on the footpath.
    its time cyclist were made obey the rules of the road.


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