Carl Froch vs George Groves

supersean1999 wrote: »

I enjoyed ringside. Groves was clearly trying to rise froch and make him hâte him. I feel this is 1year or 2 fights to soon for groves. But id love to see him beat froch. And finish this overrated plodder.

Bronze at the World amateur Championships, WBC,WBA,IBF,British,Commonwealth & English titles as a pro, wins over Jean Pascal, Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell, Arthur Abraham, , Lucien Bute, Mikkel Kessler, Glen Johnson, Brian Magee, Yusaf Mack, Robin Reid, ranked #1 by boxrecs list of active Super-Middleweight, ranked #1 challenger by Ring magazine to champion Andre Ward, and likely just outside of their p4p list.

That's some spectacular achievement for an overrated plodder.

Big Ears wrote: »

Bronze at the World amateur Championships, WBC,WBA,IBF,British,Commonwealth & English titles as a pro, wins over Jean Pascal, Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell, Arthur Abraham, , Lucien Bute, Mikkel Kessler, Glen Johnson, Brian Magee, Yusaf Mack, Robin Reid, ranked #1 by boxrecs list of active Super-Middleweight, ranked #1 challenger by Ring magazine to champion Andre Ward, and likely just outside of their p4p list.

That's some spectacular achievement for an overrated plodder.

I know all this. I Also think he is overrated. Schooled by taylor and got Lucky. Beat by dirrell in 90% of sane peoples eyes. Beat by kessler. Beat by ward. Strugged badly against a past it Johnson. He has no choice but to slug. Because Any skilled boxer béats him.

supersean1999 wrote: »

I know all this. I Also think he is overrated. Schooled by taylor and got Lucky. Beat by dirrell in 90% of sane peoples eyes. Beat by kessler. Beat by ward. Strugged badly against a past it Johnson. He has no choice but to slug. Because Any skilled boxer béats him.

Schooled ?, sure he lost a lot of the early rounds but come the end he was only losing a close split decision (all judges 106-102, but 2 had Taylor up), and got lucky ?.....please elaborate.

I scored Dirrell a one point winner over him, however to be fair Dirrell should have been disqualified for holding from about as early as the 8th. Now you could say maybe he'd have desisted if the referee took a point earlier (he had been warning him consistently the whole fight), but imo Dirrell should of got DQ'd, as it was one of the worst cases I've ever seen, so imo the scores become immaterial. But even if you want to forget Dirrell's shameful behaviour and just take the fight as scored, Froch fought an insanely talented fighter and made it very, very close. Dirrell imo is one of the greatest wastes of talent in modern boxing, there was even a certain point in time where I feel he may have got the better of Ward. Not now though.

Beat (deservedly imo) in a close fight by Kessler, who's a terrific fighter and he avenged this loss. No shame in that.
Johnson was certainly past his prime, but he was coming off stoppage wins over Yusaf Mack and Allan Green and a close points loss to Tavoris Cloud, he still had something left at that stage.
Beat by Ward ?, and which fighter under 175 lbs wouldn't of been beaten by Ward ?, the guy is arguably the best fighter in the sport, so no shame there again.

Jean Pascal, Jermain taylor, Mikkell Kessler, Andre Dirrell (whether you agree with the decision or not), Lucian Bute, these are all tremendously skilled fighters and yet Froch has managed to do enough to beat them. That puts a flaw in the theory of any skilled fighter beats him, because only 2 have, and 1 of those lost a rematch. So he's not as good as Ward.....big whoop, Ward is a very special fighter, it doesn't mean Froch isn't a fantastic fighter aswell.

richierichballs wrote: »

His best win came against Bute, I thought Bute was going to have it easy with him.
Lucky punch maybe? I dunno. But if they where to have a rematch I'd fancy Bute to take it.

and in which round did Froch land this lucky punch ?, because he battered him with heavy shotr for pretty much the whole fight !
Bute's team also had the option of a rematch which they declined to take, why do you think that is ?, I can't imagine anyone who's seen the first fight would pick Bute in a rematch, it just seems so far removed from logic.


Froch is more skilled than he's given credit for (Hence the Bronze at the World's), he's got a good jab and a very good sense of timing. Although he is a little slow, and he can be quite predictable with his shots. While technically he's certainly not a special fighter, I believe his intangibles make him one, he has a granite chin, he's exceptionally determined, he doesn't believe he can be beaten (even to the last second), able to draw fighters into a tear up when necessary and to add to this he also has good power and excellent stamina. So overall imo he's a top top fighter, and yes the intangibles have played a bigger role than they usually do with other fighters to achieve this but what's wrong with that ?
What's wrong with a fighter who's dedicated himself to the sport so intensely, that believes in himself so strongly having some success ?

walshb wrote: »

I thought Groves came across as far too forced and desperate last night on Ringside. Froch was very calm and poised.

I would agree with that in the most part, but Froch seemed to be seething, certainly not calm, just forcing himself not to errupt (but didn't seem far from it).
I've become fed up of Froch calling himself a warrior, but in the ring I still couldn't get enough of him, the man comes to fight and he'll fight anyone, home or away. That is truly rare in modern day boxing and he should be commended for that, as more fighters like him and the sport would be better off.

its all show business, nothing else really.

Myself and my brother where discussing this earlier as he's a huge Froch fan and i quite like Groves.

I think what Groves is trying to do is gain maybe an extra percent of an advantage over Froch. Just 1 or 2 percent, nothing huge or dramatic. If he can make Froch lose his cool for just a few moments in the fight, then that, i reckon Groves thinks, will win him the fight.

I think people often underestimate the parity in fighters. When world champions and other top level fighters collide, the difference between winning and losing is very minor. As i said earlier, its the matter of small percentages. So anything Groves can do to hopefully give him a slight edge, mentally, then he's going to take it, and quite frankly, he'd be stupid not to.

I like Froch, he's a mans man, and a fighters fighter. He doesnt hide in the ring, and certainly doesnt dodge any opponents. But i do have this sneaking feeling that he's going to do a Nigel Benn vs Eubank thing here, and just get caught up in the moment. With the pure intent of knocking Groves out he could find himself chasing Groves around and then finally finding himself in the 11th round, but behind by 3. It can easily happen. Froch will have to be mentally strong to not get caught up in the emotion of the fight.

There's also the sparring story. I think we all knew that Froch dropped Groves a few years, granted Groves was only in his teens at the time, but there's no denying the fact it happened. That i would expect to give Froch a massive confidence boost heading into this showdown. But Groves said something last night that only 2 days after getting dropped he "wrecked" Carl. When Froch heard this the first line out of his head was, "well, Sparring doesnt mean anything". So did Groves beat Froch up after getting dropped? I dont know, but its got me thinking.

There's also this thing in my mind. Whenever you spar with someone you're better than, you never feel intimated by them, but when you get smoked by someone, you naturally think twice about getting in the ring with them again, yet Groves, who Froch has dropped, is chomping at the bit to get in with Carl again.

So either Groves is the most mentally strong boxer on the planet, or he actually did do ok in the sparring sessions he's had with Froch.

Either wa y. Its going to be a very interesting fight, and i for one cannot wait

chrisbonnie wrote: »

I like Froch, he's a mans man, and a fighters fighter. He doesnt hide in the ring, and certainly doesnt dodge any opponents. D

He can't hide, he hasn't got the foot speed:)

I think folks get too caught up in giving Froch too much credit for obvious and natural "stuff."

The super 6 was a tournament that several men signed up to fight in, there was not going to be dodging in that one. Apart from the super 6 Carl has fought decent men, but nothing exceptional, and none that would be worth dodging!

wadacrack wrote: »

The only exceptional fighter Froch has fought was Andre Ward. If Groves chin holds up I expect him to be competitive

you dont rate Kessler?

granted i think he's past his prime, but i think Kessler was excellent. In their first fight he was brilliant, and it wasnt near as close as Froch would have you believe.

Ward absolutely mullered him, but there's no shame in that. Ward is head and shoulders above everybody else in that division (even though the Ring rankings have him at #5 :eek:)

walshb wrote: »

I disagree. He beat him, but reading this it sounds like PBF-Gatti fight!

Are you talking about Ward mullering Kessler or Ward mullering Froch?

Ring have him as champion, and at 2 on p4p list!

Ward mullering Froch, i didnt give Froch a single round, and neither did my Froch obsessed brother.

Ring have him at #1? oh wait, it was Boxrec, thats right, Boxrec. my bad

The interest in this fight demonstrates the influence of sky sports marketing. I'm not sure why anyone would be majorly interested in this fight. Froch is the most overrated fighter in boxing today.

If I ever see Froch on a P4P list then I know the person rating him is clueless about boxing.

walshb wrote: »

Fair enough, but several reds were very competitive. It wasn't a dominating victory. Clear, but not as you suggested.

The 118-110 card was the fairest card. 115-113 was an insult, Ward was in complete control for the whole fight. Also he injured his hand early on, Ward is on a different planet to Froch.

The only way I can see Groves beat Froch is adopt a game plan similar to Dirrell/Taylor & his gameplan against DeGale. Hit & move let Froch come looking for him & try make him miss/look clumsy in front of the judges.

However, it's a risky plan to try pull of for 12 rounds boxing on the back foot & getting 2 judges to give you the decision against The Champ.

I am going to have a little bet on Groves by decision at 11/2.

fsfg wrote: »

It's my opinion that Groves split with Booth as he stopped listening to him. Groves has an ego (which was built by Booth) and I think he forced the fight rather than his team had any confidence in him winning.

Groves thinks he will win, I have no doubt about that and he thinks he is a master of mind games. I think it's working to a degree- Froch looks angry to me.

Froch underestimes Groves and he needs to be careful as I think Groves has the greater power. His downfall though is that Froch won't quit or lose his spirt and his chin is rock solid. Groves needs to avoid Froch for the whole fight and while I think is is very underrated by all, logic would suggest he won't keep froch off him (unless he hurts him) maybe Groves has a better chin than I gave him credit for but I doubt it.

Froch by late Ko with Groves ahead on points at the time.

That's a pretty good summation of the whole situation.

I already mentioned that I think Groves will give him problems, and while from a betting perspective the late stoppage for Froch is probably the best bet, a small wager on Groves on pts is certainly a good value bet IMO.

Brad Goodman wrote: »

Groves looks a nice boxer with decent pop but he has had 19 fights and a quick look at names and only James DeGale, Paul Smith and Glen Johnson's names stand out. DeGale and Smith are only European level (DeGale could push on but I'm doubtful) and Johnson, while it was a good win, is completely washed up now. Therefore, unless Froch has faded badly in the past few months, which is doubtful since he's looked great in his last 2 fights, I think he jumps all over Groves early and smashes him inside of of 5 rounds. I remember Kenny Anderson had Groves all over the shop on a numerous occasions in their fight. Kenny Anderson! I just can't see Groves' chin holding up for long.

Froch just about beat Johnson back in 2011

The undercard seems to be kicking off at 6:30pm but no mention of what time the main event is scheduled for. Anybody know, even a ball park figure would do? Cheers.

Good interview

Just saw an update that Andy Lee has replaced Martin Murray on the undercard - now PPV is definitely required!

The press conference is cringe-worthy stuff from both of these guys, so awkward and childish. Hopefully they can knock each other out!