LETS ALL LAUGH AT PEOPLE WITH DEPRESSION!!

Odysseus · 02-07-2012 1:22am

Lyaiera wrote: »

I have scheduled emergency appointments (as have my family for me) and generally had a decent enough conversation with the consultant psychiatrist. However, anyone below that generally is there for so little time they'd be lucky if they see the same person twice. And it's quite obvious that they don't have the time (and if you're being cynical the compassion) to have any in depth conversation with someone and to try and tease out of people what's really going on.

For a lot of people with mental health issues they feel very insecure and wouldn't make a burden of themselves. They'd see other people as more deserving of the time of the psychiatrist. It's all well and good to tell someone that if they're feeling low they should demand the psychiatrist pays more attention to them, but that's not the way it should work. The psychiatrist should do more to find out what's actually going on, even if those minutes are spent finding out that the person is actually doing very well and has no real need for them. Because I can guarantee you that if they did have the time to do this with everyone, a lot more of the deeper issues and concerns would come to light a lot faster. And I fear that for a lot of people these issues never come to light. I have often come out of an appointment thinking that the psychiatrist didn't care about me, and had to go to family and friends and discuss my issues with them. Issues they are more than willing to discuss but are probably incapable of dealing with.

As for asking for a psychologist, I have never done so but I now do see a psychologist/therapist privately. And like I said when I was seeing a private psychiatrist she would spend a good half an hour talking with me about what was going on in my life. She appeared to care which was half the battle. I also know many people who have needed a pyschologist but haven't been able to access one through the public health system, because they're not in the public health system and the waiting time to get to see one was incredibly daunting. A few of those have been lucky enough to be in a good university at the time that has readily accessible trained psychologists for dealing with students. Others haven't been that lucky.

As far as I can see, there are a lot of people who go through repeated ups and downs stretched out over long periods. Just as they get miserable enough to start thinking about getting into the system they get an up period and decide they'll be ok, only for six months or a year down the line to go into a decline again and begin the process of convincing themselves to do something.

A huge proportion of the mental health battle is convincing someone that they need help. And for a lot of people who very validly need help but aren't in a life or death or emergency situation they don't have the speedy access that is necessary when someone does finally realise they need and want help. And a lot of the time friends and family are left holding onto them while they system slowly gets in place, if it ever does.

People who are suffering from mental health issues, or even "lesser" concerns that would benefit from therapy often need help the second the realise they need help. Because for a lot of these people the second they realise they need help is when they allow themselves to feel their worst, and when the pain really hits.

Ireland is not helping people with this, and saying "Did you ask for this help" is doing no-one any good when people have asked for that help and haven't received it fast enough.

(Also a big up to the psychiatric nurses who are extremely good at doing work they were never trained for but can pick up the pieces for some of the people who do get left behind when they're in the system.)

A lot of points there, and I need to get to bed, but just address the cynical bit, I may have picked you up wrong I'm fcuked, but I most certainly was not being cynical, I mod of psychology and a therapist with the HSE. I will try address more of your points tomorrow mate

02-07-2012 1:25am

Anyone else find that all counselling and the like did for them was make them more neurotic/over-analytical about the things that were the issue in the first place?

Lyaiera · 02-07-2012 1:28am

Odysseus wrote: »

A lot of points there, and I need to get to bed, but just address the cynical bit, I may have picked you up wrong I'm fcuked, but I most certainly was not being cynical, I mod of psychology and a therapist with the HSE. I will try address more of your points tomorrow mate

The cynical part wasn't addressed at you. I should have written, "it's quite obvious they don't have the time, (and if the patient/customer/client is feeling cynical the compassion) to deal with people properly."

I know it's a vastly underbudgeted service for what is needed. It's just that sometimes I have come out of the building thinking, "They really don't care about me."

Odysseus · 02-07-2012 1:31am

Lyaiera wrote: »

The cynical part wasn't addressed at you. I should have written, "it's quite obvious they don't have the time, (and if the patient/customer/client is feeling cynical the compassion) to deal with people properly."

I know it's a vastly underbudgeted service for what is needed. It's just that sometimes I have come out of the building thinking, "They really don't care about me."

Thanks for clearing that up

Captain Graphite · 02-07-2012 4:47am

Captain Graphite wrote: »

I've been off anti-depressants for about two months now. Mostly things have been ok but tonight was a real FML night. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm currently lviing with my parents (in the middle of nowhere) I'd probably have just gone out tonight and drank until someone came over and spoke to me.

I have problems. I'm able to deal with them a little better now but they're never gonna go away. For me, recovering from depression isn't about forgetting the past or making peace with it, because that's just a pipe dream to me. Instead it's more about being able to carry it around without wanting to curl up in a ball fall asleep and never wake up.

It's really fúcking difficult.

Quoting myself from less than 24 hours ago but I'm already looking back at this post, particularly the bits in bold, and scolding myself for jumping the gun and being too optimistic. Is moving on from your past ever actually possible? Is it more likely that the only way I'll ever stop beating myself up is when I'm dead?

No matter what I do in my future, I'll always be the person whose 22 years on Earth I look at and despise. I'll always be the guy who was really lonely as a teenager, who was a complete academic underachiever at college, who never made enough friends and got abandoned or hurt by those he did make, who has never had a talent or anything to be proud of, whose heart got broken (in an exceptionally callous manner) by someone he thought loved him and whose sense of self-worth plummeted to absolute zero as a result, who didn't seek help when things had already gone bad because he didn't think he was worth anybody's time helping....

....all that stuff is always gonna be there. How the hell am I supposed to just shrug and say "ah well, shur I can't change that" and move on? Sure, I'm still young and it's possible I could improve my life drastically very soon but ultimately it feels like that doesn't matter 'cause those past failures are always gonna be in my history. I could discover a cure for cancer, become a Nobel laureate, win an Oscar etc. in the future but none of those things could possibly make me feel any less shítty about where I've already gone wrong.

"Stop focusing on the past and focus on the future" is such sensible advice, but while it's so easily said I'm finding it impossible to put into practice.

Pedant · 02-07-2012 6:47am

cloud493 wrote: »

I live in Malahide nice isn't it?

Swords > Malahide

cloud493 · 02-07-2012 9:45am

Pedant wrote: »

Swords > Malahide

Sureee

Seren_ · 02-07-2012 10:21am

Captain Graphite wrote: »

Quoting myself from less than 24 hours ago but I'm already looking back at this post, particularly the bits in bold, and scolding myself for jumping the gun and being too optimistic. Is moving on from your past ever actually possible? Is it more likely that the only way I'll ever stop beating myself up is when I'm dead?

No matter what I do in my future, I'll always be the person whose 22 years on Earth I look at and despise. I'll always be the guy who was really lonely as a teenager, who was a complete academic underachiever at college, who never made enough friends and got abandoned or hurt by those he did make, who has never had a talent or anything to be proud of, whose heart got broken (in an exceptionally callous manner) by someone he thought loved him and whose sense of self-worth plummeted to absolute zero as a result, who didn't seek help when things had already gone bad because he didn't think he was worth anybody's time helping....

....all that stuff is always gonna be there. How the hell am I supposed to just shrug and say "ah well, shur I can't change that" and move on? Sure, I'm still young and it's possible I could improve my life drastically very soon but ultimately it feels like that doesn't matter 'cause those past failures are always gonna be in my history. I could discover a cure for cancer, become a Nobel laureate, win an Oscar etc. in the future but none of those things could possibly make me feel any less shítty about where I've already gone wrong.

"Stop focusing on the past and focus on the future" is such sensible advice, but while it's so easily said I'm finding it impossible to put into practice.

Have you ever had therapy to talk about those issues CG? There is an awful lot of stuff about myself/my past that I absolutely despised (and still do to some extent), but I've found discussing these things has helped me to accept them. Accepting something doesn't mean that you're happy with it, just that you accept that it happened, as my therapist is so fond of reminding me

Odysseus · 02-07-2012 10:55am

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone else find that all counselling and the like did for them was make them more neurotic/over-analytical about the things that were the issue in the first place?

Did you speak to your therapist about this?

Mucky.Bucky · 02-07-2012 11:06am

Thanks Thomas and Neemish for asking about me.

I was going through an ok kind of spell for a couple of days, then crashed very, very hard yesterday. I was tired from the night before too. Not that I was out or anything but I was woken a load of time. Just sat yesterday for ages in a chair wishing and wanting to die. My mind spiralling and racing with muck.

Got out for a walk in the evening which helped a bit. Came home was wrecked and tired. Went to bed. Couldn't sleep. Got up for a while and did jobs around the house. Went back into bed again for about 2 but still couldn't sleep. My mind was racing. Couldn't sleep at all, all night. Dozed off after 7, then the alarm went off. :-(

Odysseus · 02-07-2012 11:26am

Lyaiera wrote: »

I have scheduled emergency appointments (as have my family for me) and generally had a decent enough conversation with the consultant psychiatrist. However, anyone below that generally is there for so little time they'd be lucky if they see the same person twice. And it's quite obvious that they don't have the time (and if you're being cynical the compassion) to have any in depth conversation with someone and to try and tease out of people what's really going on.

For a lot of people with mental health issues they feel very insecure and wouldn't make a burden of themselves. They'd see other people as more deserving of the time of the psychiatrist. It's all well and good to tell someone that if they're feeling low they should demand the psychiatrist pays more attention to them, but that's not the way it should work. The psychiatrist should do more to find out what's actually going on, even if those minutes are spent finding out that the person is actually doing very well and has no real need for them. Because I can guarantee you that if they did have the time to do this with everyone, a lot more of the deeper issues and concerns would come to light a lot faster. And I fear that for a lot of people these issues never come to light. I have often come out of an appointment thinking that the psychiatrist didn't care about me, and had to go to family and friends and discuss my issues with them. Issues they are more than willing to discuss but are probably incapable of dealing with.

As for asking for a psychologist, I have never done so but I now do see a psychologist/therapist privately. And like I said when I was seeing a private psychiatrist she would spend a good half an hour talking with me about what was going on in my life. She appeared to care which was half the battle. I also know many people who have needed a pyschologist but haven't been able to access one through the public health system, because they're not in the public health system and the waiting time to get to see one was incredibly daunting. A few of those have been lucky enough to be in a good university at the time that has readily accessible trained psychologists for dealing with students. Others haven't been that lucky.

As far as I can see, there are a lot of people who go through repeated ups and downs stretched out over long periods. Just as they get miserable enough to start thinking about getting into the system they get an up period and decide they'll be ok, only for six months or a year down the line to go into a decline again and begin the process of convincing themselves to do something.

A huge proportion of the mental health battle is convincing someone that they need help. And for a lot of people who very validly need help but aren't in a life or death or emergency situation they don't have the speedy access that is necessary when someone does finally realise they need and want help. And a lot of the time friends and family are left holding onto them while they system slowly gets in place, if it ever does.

People who are suffering from mental health issues, or even "lesser" concerns that would benefit from therapy often need help the second the realise they need help. Because for a lot of these people the second they realise they need help is when they allow themselves to feel their worst, and when the pain really hits.

Ireland is not helping people with this, and saying "Did you ask for this help" is doing no-one any good when people have asked for that help and haven't received it fast enough.

(Also a big up to the psychiatric nurses who are extremely good at doing work they were never trained for but can pick up the pieces for some of the people who do get left behind when they're in the system.)

Firstly I asked that question because a lot of psych's either have not got much time for therapy and and trained in it. It may be really hard to ask, but if you don't ask you may not guess.

Psych regs only spens six months, one year if they are lucky in each post, then the are chasing a new post. I disagree about the caring we are not here to care, I have seen more damage done through people caring, you can care for the service, but if I find myself caring about a patient I bring it to supervision. I'm there to provide a service, a function etc.

Psychs are doctors, they are focused on meds most times, in some cases they don't have the skillls to go outside of that, as well as having the responsibility over a few hundred patients under them.

WE are under funded sadly getting instant help unless you are a risk to yourself or other is next to impossible.

I still have to disagree though, often if you don't your won't get and plently of people are able to do, those who can't well hope they have someone who can ask for them. It is not right, but sadly that is the way it is. Even your GP can refer to the Psychological services, or you can just ring a sliding scale counselling service, it may not be easy but it's an important step in your recovery.

DeVore · 02-07-2012 11:31am

H.A.L.T!

Hungry Angry Lonely Tired. Any of these is bad in itself but I find that two or more of them and I have to remember that my thinking isnt good then. This weekend I pretty much had a poker of them

I did not have a great weekend but I am determined to push through. I went for a walk and stuck my most "up" music on and watched the sun go down and it helped, for a while. Its like a whirlpool, its easiest to escape when you are still on the fringes of it but you cant say "oh, I'm only on the fringes, I only need to fight it off a little bit".... I find you have to say "I can feel it coming on, fight now with everything while its still escapable". Bloody hard though because its very attractive for me to just wallow in it. Can't be having that.

02-07-2012 1:47pm

Odysseus wrote: »

Did you speak to your therapist about this?

It's a few years ago last I saw anyone, only noticed it towards the end of the sessions.

Odysseus · 02-07-2012 2:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a few years ago last I saw anyone, only noticed it towards the end of the sessions.

Ok, but you still have a few sessions left? I'm interested if you spoke about and if not why? If you don't mind answering of course

02-07-2012 2:06pm

Odysseus wrote: »

Ok, but you still have a few sessions left? I'm interested if you spoke about and if not why? If you don't mind answering of course

I'm not seeing anyone right now, last time was about 2 years ago and it was about 2 years before that. It was a limited number of sessions both times (stupid money :pac: ) and the second time around when I noticed it there was more serious things to deal with I thought. It was just on reflection that I thought I noticed it could've happened the first time around.

Princess Peach · 02-07-2012 3:48pm

Captain Graphite wrote: »

Quoting myself from less than 24 hours ago but I'm already looking back at this post, particularly the bits in bold, and scolding myself for jumping the gun and being too optimistic. Is moving on from your past ever actually possible? Is it more likely that the only way I'll ever stop beating myself up is when I'm dead?

No matter what I do in my future, I'll always be the person whose 22 years on Earth I look at and despise. I'll always be the guy who was really lonely as a teenager, who was a complete academic underachiever at college, who never made enough friends and got abandoned or hurt by those he did make, who has never had a talent or anything to be proud of, whose heart got broken (in an exceptionally callous manner) by someone he thought loved him and whose sense of self-worth plummeted to absolute zero as a result, who didn't seek help when things had already gone bad because he didn't think he was worth anybody's time helping....

....all that stuff is always gonna be there. How the hell am I supposed to just shrug and say "ah well, shur I can't change that" and move on? Sure, I'm still young and it's possible I could improve my life drastically very soon but ultimately it feels like that doesn't matter 'cause those past failures are always gonna be in my history. I could discover a cure for cancer, become a Nobel laureate, win an Oscar etc. in the future but none of those things could possibly make me feel any less shítty about where I've already gone wrong.

"Stop focusing on the past and focus on the future" is such sensible advice, but while it's so easily said I'm finding it impossible to put into practice.

I'm not sure I can explain it, but I managed to let go of the past. I have done things I am not proud of and beat myself up about for a long time. I've had far too many people hurt me in my life and I held grudges against them and allowed myself to be upset.

I guess just over time I moved past them. There are people from my past I can never forgive, and there are people who will always see me as some kinda crazy person. I just learned not to care about it. I spoke a lot about these times with my counselors alright who put things into perspective. Regarding the friends and exes, I can honestly say now I didn't do anything wrong, just had the bad fortune of not having good friends that cared about my feelings. I had so many thoughts about what I was doing wrong in these relationships, but my counselor had no reason to lie to me when I told her about them. Maybe I just have bad judge of character but I know I'm a good person.

And times when I acted a but crazy was because I was sick, and I've worked hard to make myself a better person now and I'm proud of that.

So I can't really tell you how to move on from the past, just that I did. Maybe it just takes time and effort.

1ZRed · 02-07-2012 4:26pm

Pedant wrote: »

I'm going to be honest, turning to sex to make yourself feel better isn't the solution to the problem. I know that you're young and I don't see anything wrong with experimenting at your age but it shouldn't take over your life.

Your self-worth shouldn't be built on the number of people you have sex with or how many people want to have sex with you. That's degrading yourself, if anything. Have you thought about traveling maybe and spending time on your own so you can have time to think about where you're going and what you want to do?

I just saw this now and thought I might as well reply.
Yeah I understand it is kind of degrading but I still do it. It doesn't matter if I don't get with them, I like knowing they're there if I want them. Kind of sad I suppose but I don't always think like that.
Sometimes I might feel that all I'm good for is a quick **** so that's not exactly great either. That's usually while drinking though.
I think when I wrote that it was late and I was stressed and tired but I think that should be left at that.

In regards to the engineering thing, I've had so many arguments with my family about it and they don't understand why I should do it for reasons I won't go into because we'd be here all day. Tbh with you man I have no clue what I'm doing with myself now. I've never not had a direction in life and now that I've lost it, I don't know what to do.
That's a big pressure to have when you have to choose when you're pretty much clueless.
I'm alright though not feeling down about it or anything just a bit under pressure.

Drumpot · 02-07-2012 4:34pm

Princess Peach wrote: »

I'm not sure I can explain it, but I managed to let go of the past. I have done things I am not proud of and beat myself up about for a long time. I've had far too many people hurt me in my life and I held grudges against them and allowed myself to be upset.

I guess just over time I moved past them. There are people from my past I can never forgive, and there are people who will always see me as some kinda crazy person. I just learned not to care about it. I spoke a lot about these times with my counselors alright who put things into perspective. Regarding the friends and exes, I can honestly say now I didn't do anything wrong, just had the bad fortune of not having good friends that cared about my feelings. I had so many thoughts about what I was doing wrong in these relationships, but my counselor had no reason to lie to me when I told her about them. Maybe I just have bad judge of character but I know I'm a good person.

And times when I acted a but crazy was because I was sick, and I've worked hard to make myself a better person now and I'm proud of that.

So I can't really tell you how to move on from the past, just that I did. Maybe it just takes time and effort.

Great post, I can relate to many things posted by yourself (and indeed post by Captain Graphite).

I am now in my 34th (had to think about it there!) year, at least 20 of which have been laden with mental torture (alot self inflicted) to a fair degree.

I am doing OK and have spent alot of time trying to coach myself to give me a mental break. Im just never happy with what I do right, I always focus on what I consider to be things Im doing wrong. When I say "things I consider to be things Im doing wrong", this is important because when I have spoken to others (clients/friends) they dont actually know what Im talking about . . It could be something small but I remember and it eats away at me, to the point that it can really get to me and make me feel down.

As said, the past is the past, we cant make everything right or fix up the mistakes we have already made, but we can focus on how to try and improve. Sounds so simple and it comes naturally to some people, but trying to forgive myself for things doesnt come easy (or quickly).

One of the few things I do give myself credit for is actually my judge of character. I am surrounded by superb friends who care and try to help where they can. This was the one thing I got right growing up, I was extremely choosy as to who I kept as a friend and as such I have plenty of very close friends whom I would confide everything in and I know they would listen and help wherever they can.

Despite my ability to articulate and discuss how I feel, I still regularly feel very lonely. Was up all night on saturday because I didnt want to goto bed cause sometimes Im stuck lieing in bed thinking of crap and cant switch off. Its better if I goto bed when Im so knackered I just nod off. Bad habit, but I havent mastered the art of going to bed and switching off when Im in this mood!

Ive noticed these last few weeks have had a bit of a surreal feel where Im sort of watching my life on tv. . I dont feel fully connected, unless Im on my own and when I am on my own I just want to switch off however possible.

Right now Im just tired . . Not tired because I havent gotten enough sleep, tired because I dont feel like I get a rest from the sh*t that just wont stop swirling around in my head. I know most (if not all) is financial and work related concerns, but it doesnt help in anyway knowing this!

Pedant · 02-07-2012 6:12pm

1ZRed wrote: »

I just saw this now and thought I might as well reply.
Yeah I understand it is kind of degrading but I still do it. It doesn't matter if I don't get with them, I like knowing they're there if I want them. Kind of sad I suppose but I don't always think like that.
Sometimes I might feel that all I'm good for is a quick **** so that's not exactly great either. That's usually while drinking though.
I think when I wrote that it was late and I was stressed and tired but I think that should be left at that.

In regards to the engineering thing, I've had so many arguments with my family about it and they don't understand why I should do it for reasons I won't go into because we'd be here all day. Tbh with you man I have no clue what I'm doing with myself now. I've never not had a direction in life and now that I've lost it, I don't know what to do.
That's a big pressure to have when you have to choose when you're pretty much clueless.
I'm alright though not feeling down about it or anything just a bit under pressure.

Well again, maybe you might need to spend time by yourself, maybe travel a bit on your own and think about where you're going and what you're doing.

In the long term, it's probably better to try and form relationships (if you're sure about your sexuality yet) instead of doing hook ups. If you had someone to rely on and be committed to your compass could be set clear. Also, if you come out of the closet (I think you said before you weren't fully out) then your life could become more stable because you won't have to live with the anxiety that your cover might be blown.

In relation to college, do what you're interested in but also what you can get a job out of at the end (and never mind the recession for now, when you're finished it in 3/4 years time, it'd probably be over).

Captain Graphite · 02-07-2012 6:40pm

Your Text Here wrote: »

Have you ever had therapy to talk about those issues CG? There is an awful lot of stuff about myself/my past that I absolutely despised (and still do to some extent), but I've found discussing these things has helped me to accept them. Accepting something doesn't mean that you're happy with it, just that you accept that it happened, as my therapist is so fond of reminding me

Yeah, I've had the whole talking-to-counsellors thing and I've gotten the usual "the past is the past and you can't change it" spiel. And looking from the outside in, I know that that makes sense and it's learning to accept it is what I should be doing. But I just can't manage it properly. Everytime I think I'm making progress, something will come along and trip me up again.

Princess Peach wrote: »

I'm not sure I can explain it, but I managed to let go of the past. I have done things I am not proud of and beat myself up about for a long time. I've had far too many people hurt me in my life and I held grudges against them and allowed myself to be upset.

I guess just over time I moved past them. There are people from my past I can never forgive, and there are people who will always see me as some kinda crazy person. I just learned not to care about it. I spoke a lot about these times with my counselors alright who put things into perspective. Regarding the friends and exes, I can honestly say now I didn't do anything wrong, just had the bad fortune of not having good friends that cared about my feelings. I had so many thoughts about what I was doing wrong in these relationships, but my counselor had no reason to lie to me when I told her about them. Maybe I just have bad judge of character but I know I'm a good person.

And times when I acted a but crazy was because I was sick, and I've worked hard to make myself a better person now and I'm proud of that.

So I can't really tell you how to move on from the past, just that I did. Maybe it just takes time and effort.

Thanks, that sounds really encouraging.

I'm not sure I'll ever get to that stage that you managed but I really hope I can.

I'm definitely a bad judge of character; I guess the dislike I've always had for myself has made me really naive when it comes to other people, as I assume all other people are better than me. So I get too eager to be someone's friend/boyfriend; regardless of how much of a cúnt they are, I'll be their loyal friend just because they're actually willing to talk to me and that's as much as I can expect from anyone 'cause I feel I'm not good enough to deserve "real" friends or a proper relationship.

Drumpot wrote: »

I am doing OK and have spent alot of time trying to coach myself to give me a mental break. Im just never happy with what I do right, I always focus on what I consider to be things Im doing wrong. When I say "things I consider to be things Im doing wrong", this is important because when I have spoken to others (clients/friends) they dont actually know what Im talking about . . It could be something small but I remember and it eats away at me, to the point that it can really get to me and make me feel down.

As said, the past is the past, we cant make everything right or fix up the mistakes we have already made, but we can focus on how to try and improve. Sounds so simple and it comes naturally to some people, but trying to forgive myself for things doesnt come easy (or quickly).

Forgiving myself for even the slightest thing is downright impossible. I'm the kind of person who'll beat myself up and mentally torture myself if I fail to finish a Sudoku puzzle! My parents have always told me that I'm way too hard on myself and have unrealistic expectations....really, all I wan is some measure of success. To be good at something. ANYTHING. What that is I sill haven't found.

One of the few things I do give myself credit for is actually my judge of character. I am surrounded by superb friends who care and try to help where they can. This was the one thing I got right growing up, I was extremely choosy as to who I kept as a friend and as such I have plenty of very close friends whom I would confide everything in and I know they would listen and help wherever they can.

Alas I don't really have that option.

Most people wouldn't really want to be my friend, so anyone who's willing to sit down and talk to me is gonna fill that role regardless of how bad a friend they really are.

My best friend from secondary school doesn't talk to me anymore, even if I try to engage him in conversation. Seemingly found new friends and decided I wasn't worth it anymore. My first ex told me he loved me, how amazing I was, blah blah blah etc. when in reality I was just a convenient way for him to work through his own personal problems while he was permanently unconcerned with mine. After being used as an emotional punchbag for six months I got dumped (the night before my birthday) and that incident reduced me to an obsessive, self-loathing wreck who still can't trust people anymore.

I've actually gotten a little better recently at talking to people. It's not making friends that's the problem anymore, it's trying to figure out which of them are actually genuine.

Scanlas The 2nd · 02-07-2012 6:52pm

Captain Graphite wrote: »

Captain Graphite wrote: »

I've been off anti-depressants for about two months now. Mostly things have been ok but tonight was a real FML night. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm currently lviing with my parents (in the middle of nowhere) I'd probably have just gone out tonight and drank until someone came over and spoke to me.

I have problems. I'm able to deal with them a little better now but they're never gonna go away. For me, recovering from depression isn't about forgetting the past or making peace with it, because that's just a pipe dream to me. Instead it's more about being able to carry it around without wanting to curl up in a ball fall asleep and never wake up.

It's really fúcking difficult.

Quoting myself from less than 24 hours ago but I'm already looking back at this post, particularly the bits in bold, and scolding myself for jumping the gun and being too optimistic. Is moving on from your past ever actually possible? Is it more likely that the only way I'll ever stop beating myself up is when I'm dead?

No matter what I do in my future, I'll always be the person whose 22 years on Earth I look at and despise. I'll always be the guy who was really lonely as a teenager, who was a complete academic underachiever at college, who never made enough friends and got abandoned or hurt by those he did make, who has never had a talent or anything to be proud of, whose heart got broken (in an exceptionally callous manner) by someone he thought loved him and whose sense of self-worth plummeted to absolute zero as a result, who didn't seek help when things had already gone bad because he didn't think he was worth anybody's time helping....

....all that stuff is always gonna be there. How the hell am I supposed to just shrug and say "ah well, shur I can't change that" and move on? Sure, I'm still young and it's possible I could improve my life drastically very soon but ultimately it feels like that doesn't matter 'cause those past failures are always gonna be in my history. I could discover a cure for cancer, become a Nobel laureate, win an Oscar etc. in the future but none of those things could possibly make me feel any less shítty about where I've already gone wrong.

"Stop focusing on the past and focus on the future" is such sensible advice, but while it's so easily said I'm finding it impossible to put into practice.

I think your problem is you have a system in your head of ranking and comparing yourself in value to others. As a result of your interpretation of your past you can't see how you could possibly compare well to others.

Well how about this, no matter what you do you are never inferior or superior to anyone else. Just accept yourself, we are here to enjoy ourselves not to rank and rate ourselves. Imagine for a second your past is exactly as you want it have been, now what, life is still exactly the same. No one cares about your past. There is not one person on the planet superior to you, if someone had been born into your genes and circumstances they'd find themselves with the same past as you. Don't judge it. It does not matter, life is here and now, the past does not exist, it's imaginary.

Turtwig · 02-07-2012 7:07pm

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I think your problem is you have a system in your head of ranking and comparing yourself in value to others. As a result of your interpretation of your past you can't see how you could possibly compare well to others.

Well how about this, no matter what you do you are never inferior or superior to anyone else. Just accept yourself, we are here to enjoy ourselves not to rank and rate ourselves. Imagine for a second your past is exactly as you want it have been, now what, life is still exactly the same. No one cares about your past. There is not one person on the planet superior to you, if someone had been born into your genes and circumstances they'd find themselves with the same past as you. Don't judge it. It does not matter, life is here and now, the past does not exist, it's imaginary.

I disagree the past isn't imaginary. It's a part of us that we just have to learn from. 'Experiences' I like to call them. It's entirely up to us what we choose to make of those experiences. They're never going to go away but we can make something useful of them in the hope of refining our future experiences. (If this post makes any sense?) The one thing we cannot afford to do though is dwell on what-might-have-been's these can absolutely cripple us if we're not careful. Easier said than done, I know.

Scanlas The 2nd · 02-07-2012 7:18pm

Jernal wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I think your problem is you have a system in your head of ranking and comparing yourself in value to others. As a result of your interpretation of your past you can't see how you could possibly compare well to others.

Well how about this, no matter what you do you are never inferior or superior to anyone else. Just accept yourself, we are here to enjoy ourselves not to rank and rate ourselves. Imagine for a second your past is exactly as you want it have been, now what, life is still exactly the same. No one cares about your past. There is not one person on the planet superior to you, if someone had been born into your genes and circumstances they'd find themselves with the same past as you. Don't judge it. It does not matter, life is here and now, the past does not exist, it's imaginary.

I disagree the past isn't imaginary. It's a part of us that we just have to learn from. 'Experiences' I like to call them. It's entirely up to us what we choose to make of those experiences. They're never going to go away but we can make something useful of them in the hope of refining our future experiences. (If this post makes any sense?) The one thing we cannot afford to do though is dwell on what-might-have-been's these can absolutely cripple us if we're not careful. Easier said than done, I know.

Of course learn from the past, but don't make an identity out of it. It isn't who you are, it's just stuff that happened.

Novella · 02-07-2012 7:23pm

Captain Graphite wrote: »

No matter what I do in my future, I'll always be the person whose 22 years on Earth I look at and despise. I'll always be the guy who was really lonely as a teenager, who was a complete academic underachiever at college, who never made enough friends and got abandoned or hurt by those he did make, who has never had a talent or anything to be proud of, whose heart got broken (in an exceptionally callous manner) by someone he thought loved him and whose sense of self-worth plummeted to absolute zero as a result, who didn't seek help when things had already gone bad because he didn't think he was worth anybody's time helping....

....all that stuff is always gonna be there. How the hell am I supposed to just shrug and say "ah well, shur I can't change that" and move on? Sure, I'm still young and it's possible I could improve my life drastically very soon but ultimately it feels like that doesn't matter 'cause those past failures are always gonna be in my history. I could discover a cure for cancer, become a Nobel laureate, win an Oscar etc. in the future but none of those things could possibly make me feel any less shítty about where I've already gone wrong.

"Stop focusing on the past and focus on the future" is such sensible advice, but while it's so easily said I'm finding it impossible to put into practice.

I know you've probably heard this before and it's likely that it'll mean nothing to you, but I can relate to how you're feeling.

You won't always be the person you are today because today will end and then you'll be the person you are tomorrow and you're in control of who that person is.

I pretty much lost all of my teenage years and the start of my twenties to mental illness. I self-harmed for ten years, attempted suicide a couple of times. I dropped out of college not once, not twice but three times due to how crap I was feeling. I never felt like I had any talent, continuously compared myself to what other people had or did, what they looked like etc. I've had my heart broken. These things don't define me though, they are not me, just like how you feel about yourself now isn't all you are.

We all fail sometimes. Failing is okay. I have been where you are. I have thought to myself, "It doesn't matter what I do because I have fucked up so much already" but ya know what? It does matter. I'm not trying to cancel out the past. It wasn't great, maybe I let people down, hurt people. I'll always have this arm full of scars I guess, but now I just think, "So what?". It's over, I can't change it. All I can do is accept it, and I do accept it. That's the hand I got and I'm damn well gonna make the best of it.

I understand that it's easy for me to type this 'cause I'm seeing light at the end of tunnel now and it's different for you, but I do hope and I believe that you can see it too. The things you've felt or the things you've done are not all that you are. Don't give up and if you ever need somebody to talk to, I'm around.

InReality · 02-07-2012 8:13pm

Karsini wrote: »

I managed to get myself out of the house today, went to Malahide for a short while. It's been the first time in a while that I got out to do something other than head to work. I think I was just trying to break the monotony a little.

Fair play

Snowie · 02-07-2012 9:00pm

Captain Graphite wrote: »

Quoting myself from less than 24 hours ago but I'm already looking back at this post, particularly the bits in bold, and scolding myself for jumping the gun and being too optimistic. Is moving on from your past ever actually possible? Is it more likely that the only way I'll ever stop beating myself up is when I'm dead?

Theres no harm in being optimistic! So you beet your self up.. I think thats a case of cognitive crap.. Its not really that important. Half the time there probably just thoughts. These are the kind of things that you need to learn how to stop dealing with...

No matter what I do in my future, I'll always be the person whose 22 years on Earth I look at and despise. I'll always be the guy who was really lonely as a teenager, who was a complete academic underachiever at college, who never made enough friends and got abandoned or hurt by those he did make, who has never had a talent or anything to be proud of, whose heart got broken (in an exceptionally callous manner) by someone he thought loved him and whose sense of self-worth plummeted to absolute zero as a result, who didn't seek help when things had already gone bad because he didn't think he was worth anybody's time helping....

Ok so what are you trying to say, your going to live your future from you're past ? and what beat your self up every day over things you think are wrong?
Who says you'll always be that guy who was an academic underachiever? You, or your current train of thought?

being honest all I see is a lot of hurt and disappointment from you're past.. Its you're past not you're future you need to recognize the difference...

Now you recognize your feelings you can speak about them and maybe its time you spoke about them and delt with them and let go...

....all that stuff is always gonna be there. How the hell am I supposed to just shrug and say "ah well, shur I can't change that" and move on? Sure, I'm still young and it's possible I could improve my life drastically very soon but ultimately it feels like that doesn't matter 'cause those past failures are always gonna be in my history. I could discover a cure for cancer, become a Nobel laureate, win an Oscar etc. in the future but none of those things could possibly make me feel any less shítty about where I've already gone wrong.

But you have to except it... I hate to say its happened only you can except it and once you do that... It no longer seem relevant you've got to retrain your old basis of cognitive behavior... All I see is a lot of cognitive crap in your posts most of which can be felt with!

Stop focusing on the past and focus on the future" is such sensible advice, but while it's so easily said I'm finding it impossible to put into practice.

I agree but it requires a bit of tanacity and want to change the ways in your life. For me its partly because Ive had so many years of being a passive some what submissive person that these days I've got my teath out and speak my mind at moments notice... Not always meant but its a fact... another reason was because I was sick and tired of being some one who lived in his past theres too much to live for...

All I can say is you need to crap your past bye the scruff of the neck hit the fvcking **** out of it with a hammer then spit on it put it in the past and leave it there don't even begin to entertain it and maybe you can find the inner peace or clarity you so much want in your life...

When that happens everything changes!

Jammyc · 03-07-2012 12:27am

DeVore wrote: »

H.A.L.T!

Hungry Angry Lonely Tired. Any of these is bad in itself but I find that two or more of them and I have to remember that my thinking isnt good then. This weekend I pretty much had a poker of them
I did not have a great weekend but I am determined to push through. I went for a walk and stuck my most "up" music on and watched the sun go down and it helped, for a while. Its like a whirlpool, its easiest to escape when you are still on the fringes of it but you cant say "oh, I'm only on the fringes, I only need to fight it off a little bit".... I find you have to say "I can feel it coming on, fight now with everything while its still escapable". Bloody hard though because its very attractive for me to just wallow in it. Can't be having that.

Quoted for truth!

Roger Sterling · 03-07-2012 11:38am

Had a horrible row with the Missus last night. She brought up that she was unhappy that our relationship hadn't "progressed" in the last few years and that she worries that time is passing and that her greatest regret would be tpo leave it too late to have kids.

To put it in context we've been together for five years (both 31). I've posted briefly here before about starting counselling the last 6-8 months. Had been extremely unhappy in myself all my life really before that. I developed a drink problem and became pretty much a stoner for many years too as a means of escape because I couldn't face my problems. My solution whenever life becomes stressful is to try and run away or to look for some kind of escape - often now that I've kicked the drink and drugs that will be posting for hours on end on the internet or sitting vacantly on the sofa. Through counselling I've come to realise that I am holding a lot of hurt and anger inside that goes back to things that happened when I was growing up. I was abused physically by a very unhappy mother and to a lesser extent by a father who was totally intimidated by her. There was some serious physical abuse over the years, regulalrly being beaten, punishments like having my hands tied together for silly things like biting my nails. The worst thing that ever happened was one day my mother brought me out to the garage at the back of the house and out a black bin bag over my head and held it there, I thought I was going to die and its a memory that still haunts me forever.

I'm working through these issues with a counsellor at the moment. Its extremely tough and takes up a lot of my mental energy to be honest. Often I haven't a lot left for anything else. I've come to a decision lately that I need to confront my parents at some point and talk about these issues with them - they have been swept under the carpet and never once looked at for years now. My relationship with them is very superficial and fake on my part at the moment. I confide very little with them, limit myself to visits every few months at weekend and have empty conversations with them once a week by phone where I pretend I'm absolutely fine and life is perfect.

So back to this row last night. I have kind of had it in my head that I'd like to work through this stuff before taking the step of getting married an having children (something I genuinely want to do with this woman btw). I just fel that if I go into fatherhood feling like I do right now I could end up doing some damage to any children we had. In the sme way that my mother was pretty messed up ehwn we were small, I fear that I could do the same again to my chlildren if I don't sort myself out first.

I honestly thought up until now that my girlfriend was happy as we were and not the type to put pressure on abpout marriage etc. Only in January we were due to go on a holiday to New York and everyone we know was dropping big hints about getting engaged - to the point where she actually made the point of telling me there was no pressure and not to feel i should be doing something just because everyone else said so.

So when the topic arose I was taken aback and got very defensive (as often happens me when I get caught unawares). I took what she was saying as her telling me she was unhappy with me for things being the way they are. Things degenerated into a row, where I tried to explain that I have issues I'd like to try and sort out befopre taking the plunge. However she doesn't seem to understand just how f*cked up I am. I guess its hard for people to understand unless they've been in someones shoes that has been so unhappy for so long. She said I've just been feeling sorry for myself and am stuck in the past when we should be looking to the future. This enraged me no end and I ended up losing my temper and swearing at her. We didn't really speak this moring befoer work and I feel awful now.

I feel like things are at a crossroads. Now that I've calmed down I can see things a little more from her POV. Five years is a ling time to be together. She is an amzing woman, beautiful, kind hearted with not a bad bone in her body. Most lads would have snapped her up a long time ago. But I'm not most people. I'm different. I can she why she is starting to think re kids etc as theres only a limited time frame for these things. But she can't seem to understand the seriousness of ho bad I feel and my reasons for wanting to sort out my issues before taking things further. She probably thinks I don't really want to get married at all (which I honestly hand on heart do want to do!) or worries that it could take years for me to get sorted out.

So what do I do is my dilemma. Maybe she deserves to be with someone who can give her these things straight away? Maybe I'm just afraid of taking the plunge and I'm happy to hidebehind the counselling as a reason to delay things. I'm so confused. I'll talk to my counseller on Wednesday and try to figure it out more I suppose. It helps to write it all down I have to say. Sorry for rambling so much. My head is all over the place today. Its when life gets messy like this that I really struggle to cope. Those f*ckers at home (my parents I mean) have a lot to answer for. I'm still very angry as wel at how my girlfriedn dismisses so easily my issues as "feeling sorry for myself." I feel like she has never really understood how bad things are - and thats partly my fault as I don't really communicate anything to anyone ever.:(

Drumpot · 03-07-2012 12:47pm

@Roger Sterling . .

Do you mind me asking what is stopping you from getting married ? I understand your concern regarding children, but getting married would just be a closer joining of you and your partner (its more of a commitement, then anything else).

As for having children, that is a big one and I understand your hesitation. Let me be straight to say that you should go with your gut on that one. For me, I made a selfish call and decided that I wouldnt let my affliction prevent me from having the one thing I always wanted. I have and still suffer from depression (having a really bad bout right now!:(). Indeed, my son is in my office (work from home) right now and I feel awful.

I think I knew that I would be able to take care of a child when I bought a pet rabbit for myself about 8 years ago (told this story before, so sorry for anybody reading it again, I just think it might be relevant for this post!). I bought the rabbit for myself. Turns out the rabbit had a medical condition that meant it was very sick very often and many times it was at deaths door. I had to nurse it, force feed it and even massage its belly frequently. As long as the vet said that the rabbit was having a good life, I would keep it alive. When it got to the stage to put him down (after 6.5 years of nurturing), it was the single more hardest decision I ever made in my life. I had spent thousands on that rabbit and even more time looking after him. The vet performed the final medical act for free and said she had never seen so much commitement from anybody to a pet.

Throughout looking after that Rabbit I suffered awful depression, but I never let him down. That gave me the confidence and belief that I was capable of taking care of something else, even if I wasnt feeling great myself. But one of the best things about it was that taking care of something else made me feel better, made me feel like a better person.

I personally think, that despite my shortcomings, I am a good father, even if I get upset and feel like I cant get out of bed in the morning. I had children with the best intentions and very conscious that I would have to put in extra work on myself to be a good father. . My children are happy, everybody comments on how good they are and how docile and good natured they are. I love them running into my arms when I get home from being out. I genuinley think the fact that I am more conscious of my feelings/emotions, that I am possibly more considerate and tuned into my children.

I cant speak for your partner, but you know yourself that there is no guarantee that you will find peace anytime soon. Having children isnt exacly a guarantee just because you are trying, I know some people who spent years trying. You seem very considerate towards your partner in that you actually empathise and try to at least understand their point of view which is rare and commendable.

You said

"Maybe she deserves to be with somebody who can give her these things straight away"

. .

Maybe you should consider saying to her as much as you said on this post and let her make up her own mind on that ? Perhaps you could Write down how you really feel about her, children and marraige and read it out to her (because when we talk to people about emotional topics we all have a tendancy to deviate or get into arguments when something upsets the other person). One thing I know I get upset about is when I have discussions with my wife in my head and come to the conclusion that she just doesnt understand me (how could she, I forget that I havent even told her how I feel!). .

Roger Sterling · 03-07-2012 1:46pm

Drumpot wrote: »

@Roger Sterling . .

Do you mind me asking what is stopping you from getting married ? I understand your concern regarding children, but getting married would just be a closer joining of you and your partner (its more of a commitement, then anything else).

As for having children, that is a big one and I understand your hesitation. Let me be straight to say that you should go with your gut on that one. For me, I made a selfish call and decided that I wouldnt let my affliction prevent me from having the one thing I always wanted. I have and still suffer from depression (having a really bad bout right now!:(). Indeed, my son is in my office (work from home) right now and I feel awful.

Thanks for the long and detailed reply. I suppose the getting married one is less an issue than the children thing. In a way I had grouped them all together into this huge "task" that I was happy to postpone mentally until a point further down the line. I do that a lot even with the simplest of tasks a lot, I build them up in my head into something awful and then do all in my poer to avoid them and put them off. Part of me is scared I suppose, part of me also finds trusting others very hard after the way I was brought up. But ultimately when faceed with the direct question of why I would be opposed to marriage - I can't really give a good answer. maybe that in itself is a good sign, maybe I needed this row to happen to finally realise what I do really want.....

I think I knew that I would be able to take care of a child when I bought a pet rabbit for myself about 8 years ago (told this story before, so sorry for anybody reading it again, I just think it might be relevant for this post!). I bought the rabbit for myself. Turns out the rabbit had a medical condition that meant it was very sick very often and many times it was at deaths door. I had to nurse it, force feed it and even massage its belly frequently. As long as the vet said that the rabbit was having a good life, I would keep it alive. When it got to the stage to put him down (after 6.5 years of nurturing), it was the single more hardest decision I ever made in my life. I had spent thousands on that rabbit and even more time looking after him. The vet performed the final medical act for free and said she had never seen so much commitement from anybody to a pet.

Throughout looking after that Rabbit I suffered awful depression, but I never let him down. That gave me the confidence and belief that I was capable of taking care of something else, even if I wasnt feeling great myself. But one of the best things about it was that taking care of something else made me feel better, made me feel like a better person.

I personally think, that despite my shortcomings, I am a good father, even if I get upset and feel like I cant get out of bed in the morning. I had children with the best intentions and very conscious that I would have to put in extra work on myself to be a good father. . My children are happy, everybody comments on how good they are and how docile and good natured they are. I love them running into my arms when I get home from being out. I genuinley think the fact that I am more conscious of my feelings/emotions, that I am possibly more considerate and tuned into my children.

I cant speak for your partner, but you know yourself that there is no guarantee that you will find peace anytime soon. Having children isnt exacly a guarantee just because you are trying, I know some people who spent years trying. You seem very considerate towards your partner in that you actually empathise and try to at least understand their point of view which is rare and commendable.

You said . .

Maybe you should consider saying to her as much as you said on this post and let her make up her own mind on that ? Perhaps you could Write down how you really feel about her, children and marraige and read it out to her (because when we talk to people about emotional topics we all have a tendancy to deviate or get into arguments when something upsets the other person). One thing I know I get upset about is when I have discussions with my wife in my head and come to the conclusion that she just doesnt understand me (how could she, I forget that I havent even told her how I feel!). .

I think the bolded part is good advice too. I often try to talk about things when we row and I feel like in my head I know what I want to say but when I try to say it I either get upset by a response or get side tracked into some other argument that detracts from my overall point.

Thanks a million again for taking the time to post. I'm sorry you don't feel great today - you should know that I am very touched that you'd take the time to share your experience. You have definitely helped me out and given me some food for thought - you're a good man and you should feel some pride and satisfaction in doing a fellow human being some good today. Its nice to talk to someone who gets it. I wish you and your familyevery luck and happiness that you deserve.

PS I wonder where I could get a rabbit from?:)

LETS ALL LAUGH AT PEOPLE WITH DEPRESSION!!

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