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Netherlands

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    #122
    keeponhurling
    Registered Users Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    Also, are things expensive over there? What sort of salary would you need to live a good lifestyle, is it similar to Ireland?

    I've been there before for an interview, seems like a lovely, well-organised and clean place.
    Plus being able to cycle places would be nice.


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    #123
    seachto7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    Going back to uni in Sept but keeping a very open mind about where I end up after it. I've been to Holland many times, and to me, it seems like a well organised country, so I would consider it when it comes to looking for work.
    Basically, I want to go somewhere that just works!!


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    #124
    jamesdeanjames
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭jamesdeanjames


    Guys, thinking of going to Eindhoven in August with a few friends. It'll be a boozy weekend. Would it be a good place for that? We're all in our early 30s and like our nightlife.


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    #125
    c - 13
    Registered Users Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭c - 13


    jamesdeanjames wrote: »
    Guys, thinking of going to Eindhoven in August with a few friends. It'll be a boozy weekend. Would it be a good place for that? We're all in our early 30s and like our nightlife.

    I love Eindhoven but I'm not sure how I'd rate it for a boozy weekend, last time I was there the crowd on certain nights could be hit and miss. Most of the drinkers are made up of students so if your going outside of college terms it could be quieter again.

    If you do decide to go there are two main streets you need to look for -

    Dommelstraat - Great selection of Restaurants, some bars
    Stratumsiend - Huge amount of bars, probably about 50 along this street, all kinds of tastes catered for

    For live gigs - Dynamo & Effenarr

    For quieter beers and food Wilhemienaplein

    Some of those street names might not be spelled correctly so ...


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    #126
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Eindhoven is the last place I'd think of going for nightlife, to be honest. I've been out for the night there many times since himself is from there and it's never been anything other than dull. That's fine by me since I detest clubbing and love a quiet drink but I doubt it would suit your group.
    keeponhurling wrote: »
    Also, are things expensive over there? What sort of salary would you need to live a good lifestyle, is it similar to Ireland?

    Food and transport is cheaper, as is entertainment. Rent can be scary for ex pats and a good bit of shopping around/local knowledge is required to get a good deal.

    I'm trying to check up on that tax question for you but having no joy. Paying 37% on >19k seems overly harsh.


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    #127
    jamesdeanjames
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭jamesdeanjames


    Thanks lads.


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    #128
    denhaagenite
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    Anyone watching Cork v Kerry today?


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    #129
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    denhaagenite wrote: »
    Anyone watching Cork v Kerry today?

    A few heads will be at Clancy's in Tilburg.


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    #130
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    Another question -

    Does Holland have any government group or organisation that looks into discrimination? I know we have a few in Ireland, but was wondering if they had something in Holland. A group of lads, mostly from my team at work, went out for a couple drinks Friday here in Tilburg. There were five of us and one of the group is big into going to the gym and staying fit, so he doesn't drink. Long story short we all had consumed about two or three drinks with the exception of our friend who does not drink and when attempting to enter Studio we were told four of us were fine to come in, but not the fifth guy. The only difference was he was completely sober and of course black.

    We argued with the bouncer who kept saying 'he is not a regular' and would not say anything else. He would not explain why all of us, none of which are from Tilburg or regulars were allowed in but the one single person in our group who was stone sober was stopped.

    I sent a strongly worded email to the business but have heard nothing back. I want to make an official complaint to the authorities and whatever other groups handle this sort of abuse.


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    #131
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    CptSternn wrote: »
    Another question -

    Does Holland have any government group or organisation that looks into discrimination? I know we have a few in Ireland, but was wondering if they had something in Holland. A group of lads, mostly from my team at work, went out for a couple drinks Friday here in Tilburg. There were five of us and one of the group is big into going to the gym and staying fit, so he doesn't drink. Long story short we all had consumed about two or three drinks with the exception of our friend who does not drink and when attempting to enter Studio we were told four of us were fine to come in, but not the fifth guy. The only difference was he was completely sober and of course black.

    We argued with the bouncer who kept saying 'he is not a regular' and would not say anything else. He would not explain why all of us, none of which are from Tilburg or regulars were allowed in but the one single person in our group who was stone sober was stopped.

    I sent a strongly worded email to the business but have heard nothing back. I want to make an official complaint to the authorities and whatever other groups handle this sort of abuse.

    According to:
    https://www.discriminatie.nl/

    Closest office to Tilburg is in Breda:
    http://radar-middenwestbrabant.nl/

    Click on "Discriminatie Melden"

    TBH I don't think you will get far based on what you've described, the Bouncer used pretty much the same tactic as in Ireland saying 'he was not a regular'

    Similarly in Ireland in the cases I've heard of, members of the traveling community are not allowed entry due to being 'non regulars'

    In that kind of situation we usually just go somewhere else, there's no point in wasting your breath on racists. A lot of these bouncers are just meat heads on a power trip that failed the entrance exam for the police.

    Not a nice thing to happen :mad:

    Edit: They also have information in English http://radar.nl/read/radar-english


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    #132
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    keithclancy wrote: »
    According to:
    https://www.discriminatie.nl/

    Closest office to Tilburg is in Breda:
    http://radar-middenwestbrabant.nl/

    Click on "Discriminatie Melden"

    TBH I don't think you will get far based on what you've described, the Bouncer used pretty much the same tactic as in Ireland saying 'he was not a regular'

    Similarly in Ireland in the cases I've heard of, members of the traveling community are not allowed entry due to being 'non regulars'

    In that kind of situation we usually just go somewhere else, there's no point in wasting your breath on racists. A lot of these bouncers are just meat heads on a power trip that failed the entrance exam for the police.

    Not a nice thing to happen :mad:

    Edit: They also have information in English http://radar.nl/read/radar-english

    Cheers for that sure.

    I worked as a bouncer in Ireland for a few years sure. Did the same in America for a while, all to put myself through university.

    This is different for a couple of reasons. First of which, I work for a large multinational IT company here, as do the lads I was with. This isn't just a group of lads out for a piss up, we were well dressed business types who were just out for a few drinks after a day at the office. Proper outfits and what not. We are all family men, not young lads here.

    We were all quite offended to witness such blatant racism. They had absolutely no reason to deny entry to this man.

    More importantly this happened in the city centre. Not some small pub outside the city, but right in the centre next to the four star hotel some of the lads were staying.

    Unlike travellers none of us have ever caused any issues, anywhere. We did not in anyway look the type.

    The biggest difference really is we also have the resources to follow up with legal action in this matter.


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    #133
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    CptSternn wrote: »
    Cheers for that sure.

    I worked as a bouncer in Ireland for a few years sure. Did the same in America for a while, all to put myself through university.

    This is different for a couple of reasons. First of which, I work for a large multinational IT company here, as do the lads I was with. This isn't just a group of lads out for a piss up, we were well dressed business types who were just out for a few drinks after a day at the office. Proper outfits and what not. We are all family men, not young lads here.

    How your dressed in the Netherlands doesn't really matter, not like in Ireland anyway, i've never had to wear shoes/shirt for example in the time i've lived here going into a bar. (6 years)
    We were all quite offended to witness such blatant racism. They had absolutely no reason to deny entry to this man.

    The argument that could be used against you is that they don't care what color people are and would have refused him no matter what his ethnicity was. He might not have liked the look of him, it did not necessarily have anything to do with him being black/brown, whatever.

    They could also say that you were arguing with them in an aggressive manner, if they have CC TV Footage there'll just be a video of 5 guys confronting one guy (bouncer) with no sound.

    At the end of the day its their bar and the can refuse entry to whoever they like, although it may not be in the best interest of their business.
    More importantly this happened in the city centre. Not some small pub outside the city, but right in the centre next to the four star hotel some of the lads were staying.

    Doesn't matter.
    Unlike travellers none of us have ever caused any issues, anywhere. We did not in anyway look the type.

    This sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, I've also worked in bars and had no problems with travelers drinking in the bar. The ones that cause a problem are a small minority.
    The biggest difference really is we also have the resources to follow up with legal action in this matter.

    Unless you have evidence that the bouncer specifically refused him because of his race, it's all heresay and your 'feeling'

    Also you had alcohol taken, so your not on a good standpoint as a witness anyway.

    Maybe just don't go back there, I don't know why you'd bother giving them your business or waste your time on them.


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    #134
    seachto7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    Go back again next week. This time secretly film it.


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    #135
    keeponhurling
    Registered Users Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    What would be the best English language expat-type website, where there are discussion forums for foreigners living in Netherlands or Amsterdam specifically?
    Thanks


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    #136
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    seachto7 wrote: »
    Go back again next week. This time secretly film it.

    Stick it on www.dumpert.nl :D
    keeponhurling wrote: »
    What would be the best English language expat-type website, where there are discussion forums for foreigners living in Netherlands or Amsterdam specifically?
    Thanks

    English American or English UK ?

    Craiglist would be mostly American:
    http://amsterdam.en.craigslist.org/

    Expatica would be mostly English English
    http://www.expatica.com/nl/main.html


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    #137
    CountingClocks
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭CountingClocks


    Here's another one:

    http://www.iamexpat.nl/forum?r=index.php


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    #138
    sheekst38
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭sheekst38


    Hi Guys,
    I have been offered a job with ASML in Veldhoven and was wondering if there was anyone reading this thread that was working there and could answer a few basic questions. I was wondering how bad the Tax is on about €36k a year salary, there is also something called "Holiday money" in the contract that I cant fully understand, I goggled it but cant figure out if its a lump sum payment each year and if I would qualify for it or not being Irish.

    I will also need to set up a bank account and was wondering who are best to go with or if it matters and how would I go about getting a Tax number organised.


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    #139
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Not sure what the tax would be on 36k.

    Holiday money is very common here, you get about 8% of your yearly wage as a holiday bonus. If it's in your contract you get it, Irish or not. Enjoy. :D

    Don't know which bank is best but I personally bank with ABN Amro and they're pretty decent.

    You'll need to get an address and go and register with the municipal council in Veldhoven to get your burger servis nummer.


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    #140
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    The tax rate here is 40%. So 36k would be about 21k take home approximately, about 450 a week after tax, give or take a few bob.

    Now the 8% pay thing is tricky. Some companies are cute about it and include it in your pay while others do not. You have to check on that. How it works is they hold 8% of each pay check your get, and then give you the whole lump sum back in May. It works out to about an extra months pay you get all in May, so normally your May check is double what it normally is.

    Now, if they are doing it that way and include that in your salary it means your salary is actually 33,120 and 2,880 of that you will not get until May, meaning your weekly takehome would be about 36 quid less than I stated above. But as I said, you need to find out if your company is including this in the salary they have quoted you or if they pay this separately.

    Now, you also have to take into consideration other new fees and taxes. Here are a few things I found when living in Holland no one warned me about in advance and I had to find out on my own:

    Council tax - €330 a year. Pays for bins and sewage.
    Water charges - €26 a month
    Municipal heating charges - €75 a month (in some areas)
    Mandatory health insurance - €100 per person in your family every month (minimum, you can get plans that cost much more)

    Of course you still have electric/ESB, phone, TV, and broadband if you choose to get those as well. No TV license though, its part of the council tax.

    Also car tax and car insurance are more dear than Ireland as well. They have no toll roads here, it is all covered in the yearly road tax you pay on your car, so tax is higher.

    Rent is also about what you would expect in Dublin. A terraced house with 3 bedrooms would run you about €1,000 a month in most parts of the country today. There are many websites you can look at properties listed in this very thread a few pages back.

    Also note, here, when you rent a place you go through a Realtor. Realtors here get a fee from YOU when you rent. So when you move in you must have first months rent, security deposit, AND an extra months rent which goes to the Realtor for their fee. So take any rental price you see and treble it and that is what you need to move in. Something to keep in mind.

    Before you can even sign up for any services you need a Dutch bank account. I suggest ING as I have had bad experiences with Rabbobank and AMR ANRO. You cannot sign up for a bank account nor can you rent a place until you have registered with the local government, so you need to call and schedule an appointment before you can actually move here.

    Oh, and the best part which I almost forgot to mention - in Holland debt is illegal. You can be arrested and put in jail for being late on your bills. A guy at the warehouse at work was having money problems and they ARRESTED him at the airport when he was leaving on holidays a few weeks ago because he owed money to some utility companies here.

    I like it here, not as much as I love Ireland of course, but it does take some getting used to with all these changes and the fact if you get laid off you can go to prison.


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    #141
    CountingClocks
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭CountingClocks


    I was going to make that same point, that the 8% could be be included in the 36k. Check that out.

    There are online calculators you can use to estimate net pay, these are just a guideline as there may be other deductions such as pension. They would seem to indicate 2000-2100 net a month.

    Income tax is as follows:
    up to € 19.645 37%
    from € 19.645 - € 33.363 42%
    € 33.363 - € 55.991 42%
    € 55.991 or more 52%

    I have banked with ING and ABN-Amro, had no issues with either.

    The following sites have good info on housing, registration, banking, etc:

    http://www.expatica.com/nl/main.html
    http://www.iamexpat.nl/

    I don't know of anyone doing time for having outstanding bills but I know of people being stopped at the airport and they just had to pay them then. Wouldn't it be the case in most countries that if you don't pay your bills you would ultimately end up in prison?


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    #142
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    CountingClocks wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be the case in most countries that if you don't pay your bills you would ultimately end up in prison?

    Irish people are a bit different, many think that they are above the law in this regard and see nothing wrong with not paying their bills or mortgage. Go figure :rolleyes:


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    #143
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    CptSternn wrote: »

    Now, you also have to take into consideration other new fees and taxes. Here are a few things I found when living in Holland no one warned me about in advance and I had to find out on my own:

    Council tax - €330 a year. Pays for bins and sewage.

    This is calculated as a percentage of the WOZ-waarde and the amount you pay depends on the amount the property is worth and the amount of people living in the house.
    Municipal heating charges - €75 a month (in some areas)

    I didn't know anywhere in the Netherlands was doing District Heating, where are you living ? I've never paid this living in the Hague or Eindhoven.
    Mandatory health insurance - €100 per person in your family every month (minimum, you can get plans that cost much more)

    If your not sure how long you are staying in the Netherlands you do not have to register with the City Hall (just register with the Belastingdienst) and can continue to keep on your Irish Health Insurance until you do. In the case of a UK Resident they can keep up their national insurance contributions for years this way.

    Your Insurance will then go from date of first registration.

    Not registering with the City hall can raise some problems, e.g. buy a Dutch Registered car is basically not possible, or if you want to go back to college in the future the time you were not registered will not count toward the 5 years your need for the student grant.
    Of course you still have electric/ESB, phone, TV, and broadband if you choose to get those as well. No TV license though, its part of the council tax.

    http://www.internetten.nl/

    Is excellent to compare everything available in your Post code, i'd stay away from DSL though, had an awful experience with KPN who own all the copper anyway.

    For Energy costs use this:
    http://www.energieprijzen.nl/#!dual
    Also car tax and car insurance are more dear than Ireland as well. They have no toll roads here, it is all covered in the yearly road tax you pay on your car, so tax is higher.

    Depends on the car, in general if its a Diesel its about double what it is in Ireland.

    If its on the Co2 system, not the Weight/fuel system, for Diesels under 95 grams per kilometer and Petrols under 110 grams per kilometer you pay nothing until next year.

    Then again just calculate how many kilometers you will do per year and work out what you need, diesel is slightly cheaper here at 1.39/liter and petrol is around the 1.70 mark (Add 10 cents if on the motorway)

    If you just want a room and to avoid the hassle of realtor costs and massive deposits / commissions when you get here then checkout kamernet:
    http://kamernet.nl/
    You cannot sign up for a bank account nor can you rent a place until you have registered with the local government, so you need to call and schedule an appointment before you can actually move here.

    This isn't specifically true, you can sign up for just a Sofi number, this is when you are assigned a Tax number from the Belastingdienst, when you sign up with the city hall this becomes your Burger Service Number (BSN) in principal its the same number, just when you go to the Belastingdienst (tax office)only you are not registered with the City Hall.

    I didn't register with the City Hall until around 5 months after being in the Netherlands.

    You just need to make an appointment at the local tax office via the Belastingtelefoon service:
    http://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/standaard_functies/prive/contact/belastingtelefoon_bellen/belastingtelefoon_bellen
    Oh, and the best part which I almost forgot to mention - in Holland debt is illegal. You can be arrested and put in jail for being late on your bills. A guy at the warehouse at work was having money problems and they ARRESTED him at the airport when he was leaving on holidays a few weeks ago because he owed money to some utility companies here.

    Mmmm ... no worse than Ireland I would say, if you are completely uncooperative with the court then its possible to go to prison.
    I like it here, not as much as I love Ireland of course, but it does take some getting used to with all these changes and the fact if you get laid off you can go to prison

    Never heard of that happening, Expats I know that have been unemployed in the Netherlands for a few years lived just fine on their uitkering until they got back on their feet.

    Only case it becomes a problem is if you stick your head in the sand and do nothing about it.

    You do need to pile up some savings to cover any eventualities that can occur, but tbh this applies in the same way for people coming from other countries to live in Ireland.

    You can declare bankruptcy in the Netherlands (Schuldsanering) which can last 3 - 5 years although this is pretty rare and got yourself into a completely unsustainable debt situation.

    Ireland your debt is for life at the moment.


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    #144
    sheekst38
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭sheekst38


    Thanks to every one that replied to my questions. If I run into any of you over I'll owe ye a pint.


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    #145
    keeponhurling
    Registered Users Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    Keith, that's a very useful post. Thanks.

    Using that website http://kamernet.nl/ to find a room in a shared house, are Dutch people generally OK to live it? And generally ads on kamernet are legit?

    I want my own apartment, as the wife will be joining me a little later on, however just getting a cheap-ish room first would give me some time to figure out what areas are good, or handy for work.

    Is there any forum where Irish people in Netherlands get in touch if I was looking for Irish housemates?


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    #146
    denhaagenite
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    keeponhurling wrote: »
    Is there any forum where Irish people in Netherlands get in touch if I was looking for Irish housemates?

    You could try Expatica, but honestly I think if you're going to share it's easier not to have a preference for any one nationality. If you only stick with Irish people then it will be much harder to integrate in the long run. Alot of expats tend to only stay around short term and it can be quite unsettling to have all the people you know leave every 6 - 12 months. We lived in the Hague for 2 years and although it's a great city we couldn't settle as we stuck to the expat groups and people come and go alot. If you're serious about life here it really is better to let relationships happen organically rather than sticking to your own kind :P.

    I would definitely suggest enrolling in Dutch classes immediately, for your own development, and to meet people in the same position as you are. Dutch people are extremely open and friendly and for the most part will do anything to help, but I find this helpful nature is very counter productive when it comes to language- you will never have to worry about not understanding something but you will definitely miss out on alot of the benefits of living here if you don't have a basic knowledge of Dutch.
    keeponhurling wrote: »
    I want my own apartment, as the wife will be joining me a little later on, however just getting a cheap-ish room first would give me some time to figure out what areas are good, or handy for work.

    Which city will you be living in? There are so many people on this thread that someone is bound to be able to help. When we were moving to Eindhoven, we decided how close to the city we wanted to be and what we could afford to pay, then did a radial search based on that. I find it's a good trick to go to the local supermarket at the weekend to see what kind the kids working part time are- ie polite/ sensible or unattentive/ stinking of weed. A friend of ours living in another part of the country gave us that bit of advice and 4 years later it has stood to us :D


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    #147
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    denhaagenite wrote: »
    ...to see what kind the kids working part time are- ie polite/ sensible or unattentive/ stinking of weed.

    I am offended by your assertion that smoking weed equals lazy Dutch people.

    That is no different than someone saying move to Ireland and go to the local shop and see which one has lazy employees who stink of drink.


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    #148
    denhaagenite
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    CptSternn wrote: »
    That is no different than someone saying move to Ireland and go to the local shop and see which one has lazy employees who stink of drink.

    Apologies, no offence meant but I believe that it is more professional if people are not drinking/ smoking at work.

    I think it says alot about the kids or the attitude of the manager if it is allowed, and if you're new to a country it might help to discern what's normal and what's not. I'm saying it's not normal for dutch teenagers working part time in a supermarket to be unattentive/ stinking of weed, just as it's not normal in Ireland to have a local shop that has lazy employees who stink of drink.

    This is the Netherlands, people smoke weed more openly than in other countries. Not a problem if they do it after work or on a day off.


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    #149
    keeponhurling
    Registered Users Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    denhaagenite wrote: »

    I would definitely suggest enrolling in Dutch classes immediately, for your own development, and to meet people in the same position as you are. Dutch people are extremely open and friendly and for the most part will do anything to help, but I find this helpful nature is very counter productive when it comes to language- you will never have to worry about not understanding something but you will definitely miss out on alot of the benefits of living here if you don't have a basic knowledge of Dutch.


    Which city will you be living in? There are so many people on this thread that someone is bound to be able to help. :D

    Yes, my company will pay for Dutch classes! I've actually already started studying a little.

    I'll be working outside of Amsterdam in a suburb called Amstelveen!

    Still looking on kamernet.nl, seems a good website!


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    #150
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    So we made it six months but life here is just not for us. We are relocating back to Ireland.

    I bought a new bunk bed and chest of drawers from Ikea in June that are quite literally brand new. Anyone around Tilburg want to collect them? Not looking for much, any offer is a good offer as long as you're willing to collect!

    Also, anyone around Tilburg have a van? Or anyone here know of where I could find a van for a few hours? I have arranged to have all of our stuff shipped back to Ireland, it's just I have to get it to the depot so they can load it all up. About one van full of boxes sure.


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    #151
    RachaelVO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭RachaelVO


    CptSternn wrote: »
    So we made it six months but life here is just not for us. We are relocating back to Ireland.

    I bought a new bunk bed and chest of drawers from Ikea in June that are quite literally brand new. Anyone around Tilburg want to collect them? Not looking for much, any offer is a good offer as long as you're willing to collect!

    Also, anyone around Tilburg have a van? Or anyone here know of where I could find a van for a few hours? I have arranged to have all of our stuff shipped back to Ireland, it's just I have to get it to the depot so they can load it all up. About one van full of boxes sure.

    Been here (Eindhoven) about 10 years, and I hate it as much now as I did after my first 6 months... married to a dutch chap, so won't be going anywhere soon.

    Can I sneak into one of you suitcases for going home? I won't eat much, and I'll do the dishes (promise)


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