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Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

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    #2582
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    That was quick.

    so the other report can come out now?


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    #2583
    crusier
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭crusier


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    That was quick.

    so the other report can come out now?

    I'd say Enda is hoping for an appeal!


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    #2584
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    I think I heard that Justice Fennelly said he would be issuing a pleminary report soon. A Bailey appeal could delay that though.

    Not that he needs any vindication in this whole sorry affair but it was great to see that Garda Maurice McCabe received a promotion yesterday
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/top-job-for-garda-who-exposed-abuse-of-points-31106488.html
    GARDA whistleblower Maurice McCabe has been given a more senior role in the force following his exposure of the penalty points scandal.

    Sergeant McCabe is currently the acting head of the traffic corps in Mullingar, Co Westmeath, and it is expected he will be made permanent in the coming weeks.

    Sources close to Sgt McCabe said he would "welcome the opportunity" to take charge of the division.

    If only Shatter and Callinan had of taken him seriously to begin with they might be still in their jobs now


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    #2585
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I think I heard that Justice Fennelly said he would be issuing a pleminary report soon. A Bailey appeal could delay that though.

    Not that he needs any vindication in this whole sorry affair but it was great to see that Garda Maurice McCabe received a promotion yesterday
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/top-job-for-garda-who-exposed-abuse-of-points-31106488.html



    If only Shatter and Callinan had of taken him seriously to begin with they might be still in their jobs now

    Ah good on them for promoting Sgt. Mc Cabe. Delighted for him! Small, seriously small consolation considering everything that both he & his family went through, but look, I've no doubt he would feel proud & rightly so :)

    As regards Commissioner Callinan & Minister Shatter; I'm not sure that it's accurate to say they didn't take him seriously, but more accurate to say they were caught off-Guard and caught on the wrong-foot when this broke. No way could they not have known. No way could their heads have been so far elsewhere that this was all new to them when it broke.
    I just think something like this hasn't happened to this extent before and therefore neither knew from experience how best to deal with this; no-one in the force knew how to do any decent damage-limitation on this; the entire force was exposed lastyear and not in a positive light. <- That threw them in ways they didn't expect, nor knew how best to deal with.
    ^^ That's why I don't think it accurate to say they didn't take Sgt. Mc Cabe serious.

    Just read this thread as one example of a blast from the past that is just not positive.
    We have a new Garda Commissioner & a new Justice Minister now. Times have moved on, but whether times have changed, I don't know. I can't help but think they have but according to AGSI General Secretary John Redmond right here
    Mr Redmond said he thought having listened to Ms O’Sullivan at the conference last year, they were about to enter a new era, but he said this has unfortunately proven not to be the case.

    I for one, just don't know what to believe anymore when it comes to our Police Force.
    kerry4sam


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    #2586
    crusier
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭crusier


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Ah good on them for promoting Sgt. Mc Cabe. Delighted for him! Small, seriously small consolation considering everything that both he & his family went through, but look, I've no doubt he would feel proud & rightly so :)

    As regards Commissioner Callinan & Minister Shatter; I'm not sure that it's accurate to say they didn't take him seriously, but more accurate to say they were caught off-Guard and caught on the wrong-foot when this broke. No way could they not have known. No way could their heads have been so far elsewhere that this was all new to them when it broke.
    I just think something like this hasn't happened to this extent before and therefore neither knew from experience how best to deal with this; no-one in the force knew how to do any decent damage-limitation on this; the entire force was exposed lastyear and not in a positive light. <- That threw them in ways they didn't expect, nor knew how best to deal with.
    ^^ That's why I don't think it accurate to say they didn't take Sgt. Mc Cabe serious.

    Just read this thread as one example of a blast from the past that is just not positive.
    We have a new Garda Commissioner & a new Justice Minister now. Times have moved on, but whether times have changed, I don't know. I can't help but think they have but according to AGSI General Secretary John Redmond right here

    I for one, just don't know what to believe anymore when it comes to our Police Force.
    kerry4sam

    The government want a perception of change but they still want to control senior officers for their own benifit , they don't care about ordinary gardai, the under resourceing and low morale is their doing , the only reason they are recruiting is so they can say they are at the next election, too late the damage has been done!


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    #2587
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Minister Shatter didn't do too well in court today

    And now Wallace is going to sue for damages over the revealing of being stopped by the gardai


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    #2588
    voter1983
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭voter1983


    Absolutely delighted for the horrible individual. Wonder will hairy use the money from the lawsuit to pay his court fines?


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    #2589
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    voter1983 wrote: »
    Absolutely delighted for the horrible individual. Wonder will hairy use the money from the lawsuit to pay his court fines?

    Or his tax bill


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    #2590
    adrag
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭adrag


    ah leave poor alan alone lads


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    #2591
    adrag
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭adrag


    ah leave poor alan alone lads


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    #2592
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/interested-parties-get-first-draft-of-report-into-garda-commissioners-departure-681557.html

    Looks like its just a month away.
    Should make for very interesting reading.


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    #2593
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/interested-parties-get-first-draft-of-report-into-garda-commissioners-departure-681557.html

    Looks like its just a month away.
    Should make for very interesting reading.

    Yeah I'm looking forward to this being published for all


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    #2594
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Yeah I'm looking forward to this being published for all

    It'll be published just as the Dail breaks for the summer break!

    So The Coward Kenny won't have to answer any questions!

    How appropriate!


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    #2595
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Yeah I'm looking forward to this being published for all
    michael999999 wrote: »
    It'll be published just as the Dail breaks for the summer break!

    So The Coward Kenny won't have to answer any questions!

    How appropriate!

    It was pointed out by several people on RTE's evening radio news that the only commitment Mr Kenny gave was to publish the final report. This is an interim one and it's not certain it will be published at all.


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    #2596
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    It was pointed out by several people on RTE's evening radio news that the only commitment Mr Kenny gave was to publish the final report. This is an interim one and it's not certain it will be published at all.

    Me thinks that if a way exists for this not to be published, then it will be found. Time will tell I suppose.

    I am very curious about the findings of this report though.

    Thanks,
    kerry4sam


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    #2597
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,892 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    It was pointed out by several people on RTE's evening radio news that the only commitment Mr Kenny gave was to publish the final report. This is an interim one and it's not certain it will be published at all.

    You want to take a bet that if the dear leader is in the clear he will publish the interim report ?

    Then again if he doesn`t.........:eek:


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    #2598
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    FOI requests shall follow

    I hope some TDs have sources to get their hands on this report


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    #2599
    crusier
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭crusier


    If kenny doesn't like what's in it he can always send someone over to sack fennelly!


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    #2600
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    I dont think much will come of it anyway. Even if the report shows Enda effectively sacked Callinan there might be a kerfuffle from Michael Martin for a few days but at the end of the day Callinan wrote his own death warrant by refusing to believe the whistleblowers and calling their actions "disgusting". Public opinion at the time was that he had to resign - its important to remember that the final straw that broke the camels back was Callinan issuing a statement saying that Maurice McCabe had been read out a letter by a Garda manager from the Park. Callinans statement contained bare faced lies about the contents of that letter and how he had dealt with McCabe because he hadn't counted on the chances of Maurice McCabe secretly recording the letter as it was read out to him (McCabe had asked for a copy and was told he couldnt have one). Effectively McCabe outplayed Callinan and if he hadn't of resigned what he would have faced was the recording being made public and him literally being exposed as saying one thing in public but doing the complete opposite in private. If McCabe didn't secretly record that conversation Callinan might have wriggled out of the controversy but because it was recorded and the details of the letter were completely at odds with Callinans public statement on the letter then he really had no-where left to turn, he had to go.


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    #2601
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I dont think much will come of it anyway. Even if the report shows Enda effectively sacked Callinan there might be a kerfuffle from Michael Martin for a few days but at the end of the day Callinan wrote his own death warrant by refusing to believe the whistleblowers and calling their actions "disgusting". Public opinion at the time was that he had to resign - its important to remember that the final straw that broke the camels back was Callinan issuing a statement saying that Maurice McCabe had been read out a letter by a Garda manager from the Park. Callinans statement contained bare faced lies about the contents of that letter and how he had dealt with McCabe because he hadn't counted on the chances of Maurice McCabe secretly recording the letter as it was read out to him (McCabe had asked for a copy and was told he couldnt have one). Effectively McCabe outplayed Callinan and if he hadn't of resigned what he would have faced was the recording being made public and him literally being exposed as saying one thing in public but doing the complete opposite in private. If McCabe didn't secretly record that conversation Callinan might have wriggled out of the controversy but because it was recorded and the details of the letter were completely at odds with Callinans public statement on the letter then he really had no-where left to turn, he had to go.


    If the Fennelly Report does find Kenny acted wrongly, it will be interesting to see the usual suspects criticising Kenny for doing what they were previously criticising him for not doing.


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    #2602
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    FOI requests shall follow

    I hope some TDs have sources to get their hands on this report


    since when does FOI entitle you to get your hands on an interim report of a Judge?

    Interested to hear your take on this.


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    #2603
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    What are the chances that there's some "clause" allowing the sacking/resignation of the commissioner under particular circumstances, if the government feel its in the public interest!

    There's no way Kenny's going under the bus for this!


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    #2604
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Godge wrote: »
    since when does FOI entitle you to get your hands on an interim report of a Judge?

    Interested to hear your take on this.

    Other reports are leaked.
    When it suits the government.


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    #2605
    curioser
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭curioser


    Godge wrote: »
    since when does FOI entitle you to get your hands on an interim report of a Judge?

    Interested to hear your take on this.
    FOI and TD sources are two different issues.

    Tribunals etc have to give draft reports to parties affected and vested interested will leak copies to the media as it suits them. Remember the reports about Bertie at the Mahon tribunal?


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    #2606
    crusier
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭crusier


    Kenny will fall on his sword on this one, get ready for a leadership battle, every dog had his day!


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    #2607
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    I oppose political appointments of senior Gardai and likewise I oppose political sackings of the same.
    However, it does bring up an interesting question. Who should have the power to sack the Garda Commissioner in cases of serious wrongdoing? While I agree that if Kenny did effectively sack him it's a very serious matter and should absolutely not be tolerated, I also believe that Callinan should have been sacked for his actions. With whom should the responsibility for doing so lie? Does it currently lie with anyone, or is the Garda Commissioner effectively his or her own boss, and above anyone else's remit to dismiss?


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    #2608
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I oppose political appointments of senior Gardai and likewise I oppose political sackings of the same.
    However, it does bring up an interesting question. Who should have the power to sack the Garda Commissioner in cases of serious wrongdoing? While I agree that if Kenny did effectively sack him it's a very serious matter and should absolutely not be tolerated, I also believe that Callinan should have been sacked for his actions. With whom should the responsibility for doing so lie? Does it currently lie with anyone, or is the Garda Commissioner effectively his or her own boss, and above anyone else's remit to dismiss?

    Answerable to the Minister for Justice, who is answerable to the Taoiseach, who is answerable to nobody, or so it seems


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    #2609
    crusier
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭crusier


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I oppose political appointments of senior Gardai and likewise I oppose political sackings of the same.
    However, it does bring up an interesting question. Who should have the power to sack the Garda Commissioner in cases of serious wrongdoing? While I agree that if Kenny did effectively sack him it's a very serious matter and should absolutely not be tolerated, I also believe that Callinan should have been sacked for his actions. With whom should the responsibility for doing so lie? Does it currently lie with anyone, or is the Garda Commissioner effectively his or her own boss, and above anyone else's remit to dismiss?

    That's not the question here, if he wanted to sack him let him come out and sack him, its the taoiseachs job to sack a commissioner if its justified, in this case it was not justified but necessary for the governments political survival as the heat was on them, he pushed him in my opinion and hadn't the balls to admit to it afterwards!


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    #2610
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    crusier wrote: »
    That's not the question here, if he wanted to sack him let him come out and sack him, its the taoiseachs job to sack a commissioner if its justified,

    This is one of the key issues the inquiry has to consider - did the Taoiseach effectively sack the Commissioner? Because, in fact, it is not his job and Mr Kenny would have exceeded his powers to do so without a cabinet decision.


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    #2611
    crusier
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭crusier


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    This is one of the key issues the inquiry has to consider - did the Taoiseach effectively sack the Commissioner? Because, in fact, it is not his job and Mr Kenny would have exceeded his powers to do so without a cabinet decision.

    I'm wrong you are correct, apologies


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