When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

fat-tony · 08-03-2014 2:38am

michaelotoole wrote: »

I'm actually less than 30 meters much closer to 20... however... there's two more cabinets about 150/200 meters away...

I wonder if they connected me to one of the remoter cabinets as it's almost certain they have available slots due to their position?
...

Been doing a little calculations base on statistical analysis and it looks like I am between 160 and 170 meters from a cabinet which tallies with being connected to one of the remote cabinets...

Depends on which exchange cabinet your house is wired to. The VDSL cabinets are located beside the existing copper cabinets and the connections are looped from one to the other. Your house was probably linked to an existing cabinet further away and that determines which VDSL cabinet is used. Wouldn't have anything to do with available slots - just existing wiring.

BionicRasher · 08-03-2014 8:31am

Line Status

Line standard VDSL2
Channel type
None
Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 71672
Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 20479
Downstream SNR (dB) 7.8
Upstream SNR (dB) 10
Downstream line attenuation (dB) 8.9
Upstream line attenuation (dB) 3
Downstream output power (dBmV) 11.2
Upstream output power (dBmV) -12.9
Downstream CRC 18
Upstream CRC 13
Downstream FEC 1815416
Upstream Feb 23401

I get close on 69mbps up and 20mbps down since I have had this installed a few months ago. About 500 meters as the crow flies from the cabinet.

michaelotoole · 08-03-2014 12:55pm

fat-tony wrote: »

Depends on which exchange cabinet your house is wired to. The VDSL cabinets are located beside the existing copper cabinets and the connections are looped from one to the other. Your house was probably linked to an existing cabinet further away and that determines which VDSL cabinet is used. Wouldn't have anything to do with available slots - just existing wiring.

I appreciate that now, just watched a video explaining quite a bit about the cabinets and cabling methods...
From the video, and using a bit of common sense I gather it's something like this...

Old method: (assumption)
Cables run from the local exchange to a various termination cabinet (old green cabinet)... From these termination cabinets, other cables run to various underground termination point (identified by the P&T rectangular cement cover), where they are then fed to various polls which then feed the individual homes...

New Method: (assumption)
Cables from the exchange are replaced with fibre which terminates in the new e-cabinets located beside the old cable copper wire termination cabinets... The two cabinets are interconnected however no connection is made to individual line pairs until you get broadband, at which point, the technician simply make the link...

Just an exercise in imagination but it's got to be close, doesn't it?

Anyway the point being, your line doesn't necessarily connect to the nearest cabinet (as it looks increasingly unlikely in my case)... and is definitely a possible in areas of high density or where line capacity in the past was maxed out...

The costs have already been paid:
If memory serves, when Eircom took over from the P&T (Post & Telegraph) many years ago, they nearly lost the line rental revenue but argue the income was necessary to maintain the lines and help pay for future developments and new technologies... isn't that e-Fibre....

The revenue form line rental has got to be many times the cost of the current fibre roll out and in fact should pay for fibre to the door, never mind the curb/cabinet....
Mike

fat-tony · 08-03-2014 1:08pm

One thing about the fibre connection from exchange to cabinet. It does not replace existing copper from exchange to cabinet. It is a parallel system and may run alongside the copper from pole to pole or in the ground. Your telephone service still runs on copper wires from your house back to the copper cabinet and from there back to the exchange on twisted-pair copper wire. Your eFibre service is tapped and filtered at the VDSL cabinet and goes back to the exchange on optical fibre. Eventually the copper back to exchange may be replaced altogether and a full digital phone service (voice over IP) provided either in the cabinet or via a unit in your house. Various modem/routers provided by the ISPs can give you a VoIP facility.

SpaceTime · 08-03-2014 1:21pm

michaelotoole wrote: »

I appreciate that now, just watched a video explaining quite a bit about the cabinets and cabling methods...
From the video, and using a bit of common sense I gather it's something like this...

Old method: (assumption)
Cables run from the local exchange to a various termination cabinet (old green cabinet)... From these termination cabinets, other cables run to various underground termination point (identified by the P&T rectangular cement cover), where they are then fed to various polls which then feed the individual homes...

New Method: (assumption)
Cables from the exchange are replaced with fibre which terminates in the new e-cabinets located beside the old cable copper wire termination cabinets... The two cabinets are interconnected however no connection is made to individual line pairs until you get broadband, at which point, the technician simply make the link...

Just an exercise in imagination but it's got to be close, doesn't it?

Anyway the point being, your line doesn't necessarily connect to the nearest cabinet (as it looks increasingly unlikely in my case)... and is definitely a possible in areas of high density or where line capacity in the past was maxed out...

The costs have already been paid:
If memory serves, when Eircom took over from the P&T (Post & Telegraph) many years ago, they nearly lost the line rental revenue but argue the income was necessary to maintain the lines and help pay for future developments and new technologies... isn't that e-Fibre....

The revenue form line rental has got to be many times the cost of the current fibre roll out and in fact should pay for fibre to the door, never mind the curb/cabinet....
Mike

Basically, but P&T was actually a government department analogous to The Department of Communications. The majority of the current eircom physical copper infrastructure was rebuilt in the 1980s by Telecom Eireann. The old P&T network was mostly an absolute mess due to underinvestment. TE was a state owned company much like ESB etc.

It was privatised and is eircom.

The infrastructure was put in place with state support, also with EU aid in the 80s and it was basically subsidised because TE was a legally protected monopoly for most of its existence. The company would have also raised a lot of money privately too though.

That's how eircom ended up so dominant and why it's forced to allow access to other companies over its local network.

OneEightSeven · 08-03-2014 1:32pm

michaelotoole wrote: »

I appreciate that now, just watched a video explaining quite a bit about the cabinets and cabling methods...
From the video, and using a bit of common sense I gather it's something like this...

Old method: (assumption)
Cables run from the local exchange to a various termination cabinet (old green cabinet)... From these termination cabinets, other cables run to various underground termination point (identified by the P&T rectangular cement cover), where they are then fed to various polls which then feed the individual homes...

New Method: (assumption)
Cables from the exchange are replaced with fibre which terminates in the new e-cabinets located beside the old cable copper wire termination cabinets... The two cabinets are interconnected however no connection is made to individual line pairs until you get broadband, at which point, the technician simply make the link...

Just an exercise in imagination but it's got to be close, doesn't it?

Anyway the point being, your line doesn't necessarily connect to the nearest cabinet (as it looks increasingly unlikely in my case)... and is definitely a possible in areas of high density or where line capacity in the past was maxed out...

The costs have already been paid:
If memory serves, when Eircom took over from the P&T (Post & Telegraph) many years ago, they nearly lost the line rental revenue but argue the income was necessary to maintain the lines and help pay for future developments and new technologies... isn't that e-Fibre....

The revenue form line rental has got to be many times the cost of the current fibre roll out and in fact should pay for fibre to the door, never mind the curb/cabinet....
Mike

Do you have a link to this video?

SpaceTime · 08-03-2014 1:58pm

The other issue is that a % of lines aren't connected to PCP cabinets at all.

Some areas were wired with 'breakout' points underground in large vaults rather than street cabinets.

This is very much the norm in central Dublin and Central Cork for example. Large areas of the very centre of those two cities have no efibre yet at all. There is a rumor they may get FTTH (fibre to the home/premises) rather than VDSL. There are issues squeezing cabinets into those areas and planning permission restrictions.

You've also got that situation in some housing developments, particularly 1950s/60s era with fully underground wiring. Although you can't generalise. Some places had cabinets some didn't. In those cases they'll most likely retrofit cabinets.

If you're very close to the exchange in some areas you may discover your line is direct fed from there too without any cabinet.

In areas where buildings are of mixed age, you can find older ones have totally different routing of phone lines to neighbouring newer build stuff too. So you might find old buildings going back to a different cabinet or even directly to the exchange. In other areas you (like mine) you could be next door to the exchange and still go through a cabinet.

It's all very difficult to generalise and different wiring methodologies were used in different eras and areas

Most lines are connected to PCP cabinets though. So in general FTTC is pretty straight forward to roll out.

There is a more general discussion on the rollout thread though.

This one is just about vectoring.

michaelotoole · 08-03-2014 2:46pm

@SpaceTime
Oops done it again... forgot the topics so I finish off with this post and back vectoring...
I pretty much understood that was the case, just pointing out that revenue from line rental never seems to get any mention... it's got to be substantial, certainly enough to pay for some modernisation...

As to improvements, they didn't impact me so I didn't realise they had made any... for example, back in the old days when modems operated at a massive 1200 baud, I tied, for seven or eight years, to get connected to the internet... Each time, I was informed my line could not handle it... (my line was on an analogue multiplexed system according to the engineer in the exchange)... so I never saw any signs of investment....

@OneEightSeven
Didn't keep the link but I will look for it and post back...
Try this one but could be be of the others too... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53NcsctuxV0&list=UUPJPRFCFcf1Atsh-blmRnfQ skip to the interesting bits...

SpaceTime · 08-03-2014 3:07pm

There was huge ( government and EU driven) investment in the 1980s and 90s. The network was basically rebuilt and moved from a very clapped out analogue system to a pretty high tech digital system. They spent billions and it was a big part f irelands key selling points as a place to invest etc.. Eircom was privatised as a PLC and floated on the stock markets. Shortly after it was taken over and taken off the stock market again by investors.

Investment levels plummeted after eircom came into existence and the company ran up enormous debts mostly due to multiple leveraged takeovers. Essentially, bought out by investors who borrowed money based on predicted cash flows / rising value of telecoms stock. Those didn't materialise as they were largely built on predictions based around the original 'dot com' bubble.

That saddled it with so much debt it had to go into examinership and ultimately did a deal where its shareholders were wiped out and its creditors took over the company with about 50% of debt written off.

So basically until recently it had no money and had very little ability to finance capital investment that was seriously needed.

As for your line in the past. Basically, they were short of copper pairs in some areas in the 1990s. So to provide voice service they multiplexed several customers into a single copper wire. That was done by BT and At&T and others too. Its called DACS in the UK or Pair gain in the US.

The networks were probably planned with pre-boom time loads in mind. That coupled with Irish planning laws allowing ribbon development in rural areas and really huge levels of housing growth put them into a very bad situation in many areas where their network ran out of capacity.

These days they don't have the same level of demand due to people dropping landline services and due to DSL doing away with the need for second lines. Cable is also competing head to head with them in urban areas which forced them to compete.

There are lots of factors in play!

The market has changed and eircom is not the same company it was a few years ago either. Different ownership, different management and a much more long term view of what they're doing.

Previously it was very much a victim of the speculative financial markets and various investment funds that were out for short term profits.

Hopefully, it's now all about running a profitable, sustainable telecommunications company!

They've just built out a new all-IP core network and this FTTC next generation acres efibre stuff is the first time that we're getting to use it as end users.

Fingers crossed its going to keep going this way!

michaelotoole · 08-03-2014 3:39pm

@SpaceTime Excellent post!

SpaceTime · 08-03-2014 3:51pm

As for Vectoring... Still no sign of it on my line anyway.

Has anyone gotten a major speed bump yet?

bloodyhawk · 08-03-2014 4:05pm

bloodyhawk wrote: »

Downstream 43.156 and upstream of 16.447? what in the world i am on the 70mb package have i been switched? i am going to ring eircom tomorrow...

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 5 hours: 28 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 16.447 Mbps 43.156 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 16.383 Mbps 43.009 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 14.5 dB 18.7 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: -13.7 dBm 11.2 dBm
Receive Power: -24.7 dBm -2.8 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 10.9 dB 13.9 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 28.376 Mbps 85.044 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 2.3 13.5 18.5 N/A 8.4 18.1 28.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 2.3 12.8 17.6 N/A 7.2 17.9 28.1
SNR Margin(dB): 14.5 14.4 14.5 N/A 18.7 18.8 18.7
Transmit Power(dBm):-25.1 -16.0 -18.7 N/A 3.4 7.8 6.9
============================================================================

I rang eircom this morning and told them the issue i was having. It appears that the speed was decreased in order to stabilize the connection, since i just signed up for evision. I don't really know what connection does evision have with efiber but yeah. the person i was talking to put me back on the 70mb and told me to wait couple of hours to see the change...

OneEightSeven · 08-03-2014 4:48pm

bloodyhawk wrote: »

I rang eircom this morning and told them the issue i was having. It appears that the speed was decreased in order to stabilize the connection, since i just signed up for evision. I don't really know what connection does evision have with efiber but yeah. the person i was talking to put me back on the 70mb and told me to wait couple of hours to see the change...

Yeah, you have to sacrifice some of your speed for eVision. I heard eVision is bollocks. I wouldn't have bothered myself.

SpaceTime · 08-03-2014 6:20pm

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Yeah, you have to sacrifice some of your speed for eVision. I heard eVision is bollocks. I wouldn't have bothered myself.

It's hanging on your broadband unlike UPC TV which runs separately.

loyatemu · 08-03-2014 10:46pm

@spacetime - I heard that they're working on a solution for exchange-fed lines, it'll still be VDSL not FTTH, probably be next year before its available though.

tdonegan1990 · 12-03-2014 12:52am

Looks like it's live in Newbridge!
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056555985/592

HellboundIRL · 12-03-2014 1:47am

My connection reset 21 hours ago and is now syncing at 51280/20549 and it was originally 50268/20479. My SNR has remained the same at 18db though so I'm not so sure...the speed increase is weird though.

swoofer · 12-03-2014 10:01am

what is the actual speed? how far from cabinet? who is your ISP? make of router? do you know what your line profile is set at?

tdonegan1990 · 12-03-2014 10:53am

HellboundIRL wrote: »

My connection reset 21 hours ago and is now syncing at 51280/20549 and it was originally 50268/20479. My SNR has remained the same at 18db though so I'm not so sure...the speed increase is weird though.

Me too but it happend me last week!
Hardly vectoring is it?

Praetorian · 12-03-2014 11:02am

Those small changes in sync rates seem to be normal. Definitely not vectoring.

bloodyhawk · 12-03-2014 2:06pm

My Attainable Net Data Rate just sky rocketed:
previous: up-28.376 Mbps down-85.044 Mbps
now: up-28.384 Mbps down-125.704 Mbps

so did my SNR margin.
Previous: up- 14.5 dB down- 18.7 dB
Now: up- 14.7 dB down- 30.0 dB

ED E · 12-03-2014 2:42pm

bloodyhawk wrote: »

My Attainable Net Data Rate just sky rocketed:
previous: up-28.376 Mbps down-85.044 Mbps
now: up-28.384 Mbps down-125.704 Mbps

so did my SNR margin.
Previous: up- 14.5 dB down- 18.7 dB
Now: up- 14.7 dB down- 30.0 dB

Thats vectoring. Ask them to reprofile you if it stays that way.

Cork981 · 12-03-2014 2:52pm

bloodyhawk wrote: »

My Attainable Net Data Rate just sky rocketed:
previous: up-28.376 Mbps down-85.044 Mbps
now: up-28.384 Mbps down-125.704 Mbps

so did my SNR margin.
Previous: up- 14.5 dB down- 18.7 dB
Now: up- 14.7 dB down- 30.0 dB

Where are you located ?

bloodyhawk · 12-03-2014 4:22pm

Cork981 wrote: »

Where are you located ?

Athlone...

bloodyhawk · 12-03-2014 5:59pm

ED E wrote: »

Thats vectoring. Ask them to reprofile you if it stays that way.

Alright, where should I begin...I rang the eircom just like you told me and asked them to reprofile me, but unfortunately the guy who i was talking to didn't know what vectoring even was until i explained it to him? (Yeah makes you think huh) Anyway, then he went on to say that the vectoring is being available only on some cabs in dublin, and said that it wont be available at my address for at least 6 months time. Here as skeptical as i was I told him to make sure, and hey what do you know he said that i could actually be put on 85mbps. He also went ahead to say that i would of been able to get 100mbps if i didn't sign up for evision(Oh well). He just upgraded my profile now so i just have to wait for the changes to take place.

What I am actually wondering is that shouldn't I be getting 125mbps
according to my attainable net data rate?

EDIT: here you go

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 15 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 20.549 Mbps 87.211 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 20.479 Mbps 87.041 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 11.0 dB 13.3 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 6 ms
Transmit Power: -13.7 dBm 11.2 dBm
Receive Power: -24.7 dBm -2.8 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 2.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 11.0 dB 14.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 28.024 Mbps 116.800 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 2.3 13.5 18.6 N/A 8.5 18.1 28.2
Signal Attenuation(dB): 2.3 13.1 17.5 N/A 7.3 18.0 28.1
SNR Margin(dB): 11.1 11.0 11.0 N/A 13.2 13.3 13.3
Transmit Power(dBm):-25.0 -15.9 -18.6 N/A 3.4 8.1 6.8
============================================================================

OneEightSeven · 12-03-2014 6:10pm

bloodyhawk wrote: »

What I am actually wondering is that shouldn't I be getting 125mbps according to my attainable net data rate?

Attainable Net Data Rate: 28.024 Mbps 116.800 Mbps

Your attainable net data rate is 116Mb, not 125Mb. Perhaps the missing 29Mb is going towards your eVision?

How far away from the cabinet are you?

bk · 12-03-2014 6:34pm

If you sign up to eVision you get put on a "stable" profile rather then a "normal" profile. This means you trade speed for stability of the connection.

For example if previously you were on the 70mb "normal" profile and signed up for eVision, then you would be changed to a 50mb "stable" profile.

This is one of the major downsides of eVision. Another is that eVision uses your actual bandwidth while a stream is active (watching or recording a channel). It uses 2.5mb/s per SD stream or 10mb/s per HD stream, this is in addition to being moved to a stable profile. UPC doesn't suffer from this problem at all, their TV service is entirely separate from their broadband service. Watching TV has no impact on the BB speed.

BTW just because your line can achieve a higher data rate, doesn't mean Eircom will sell you that profile. For instance my parents attainable download rate is 100mb/s even before vectoring was enabled (they are literally 10 meters from the cabinet), but Eircom put them on a 70mb/s profile as until now, that is the fastest profile Eircom made available.

bk · 12-03-2014 7:06pm

Oh, so I've found the (proposed) new profiles for Vectoring enabled exchanges in this document:

http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1068

High Speed Internet Profiles:

Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps) - Up (Mbps)
300m - 100 - 20
450m - 90 - 20
525m - 80 - 20
600m - 60 - 20
750m - 50 - 20
850m - 40 - 10
1000m - 30 - 8
1200m - 25 - 8
1300m - 18 - 5
1500m - 15 - 3
1700m - 12 - 1
2000m - 7 -1

High Stability profiles (for eVision)
Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps - Fixed) - Up (Mbps - Rate Adaptive)
300m - 85 - 5 to 20
450m - 80 - 5 to 20
525m - 70 - 5 to 20
600m - 60 - 5 to 20
650m - 50 - 5 to 16
750m - 40 - 5 to 16
850m - 34 - 5 to 16
1000m - 28 - 50 to 15
1200m - 20 - 2.5 to 8
1300m - 18 - 2.5 to 7
1500m - 12 - 0.25 to 1
1750m - 10 - 0.25 to 1
2000m - 4 - 0.25 to 1

Really interesting, so a couple of things to note.

- Even if your line can "attain" higher speeds (for instance 130mb/s in the case of my parents with vectoring), Eircom will only sell a max of 100mb/s to them.

- Almost everyone is seeing a very large speed increase.

- Eircom will now allow VDSL to be sold out to 2km, versus just 1km when they first rolled it out. This is fantastic news for rural Ireland.

7mb down, 1mb up might not sound very exciting, but for those in rural areas, this can be a massive jump up from a crappy, very unstable potentially 1mb/200k ADSL1 connection.

7mb would allow such people to easily do Video Calling and SD youtube and Netflix, it should also just be possible to do HD Netflix and Youtube, a great and very welcome improvement for such people.

Even better 12/1 out to 1750m is even better, this is a very decent speed that makes most current internet services work very well including most HD streaming.

This is really really good news for rural Ireland. Now we just have to try and make sure that every village in Ireland has at least one fibre connected cab at the centre of the village. Such fibre can then be used to help feed LTE and fixed wireless to those more then 2km from the village.

Tonio · 12-03-2014 7:16pm

Forgive me if these are stupid questions. Why do the upload speeds not get bumped up with vectoring switched on? Does vectoring only benefit the download speed? Is 20Mb/s the limit for upload via VDSL2?

domeld · 12-03-2014 7:49pm

I can confirm that vectoring in Athlone is enabled, profiles have been updated.

michaelotoole · 12-03-2014 8:01pm

Can I assume if there no change in the "Attainable Net Data Rate" vectoring has not been enabled?
Also, added to Tonio's question... if prior to vectoring max upload is 18MB, will this raise to 20MB after implementation?

Finally, I notice the "Attainable Net Data Rate" changes early morning and after midnight... at least on the two occasion I have tested... goes from 97.240 Mbps to between 110 and 111 Mbps... why is that?
Mike

ED E · 12-03-2014 8:04pm

michaelotoole wrote: »

Finally, I notice the "Attainable Net Data Rate" changes early morning and after midnight... at least on the two occasion I have tested... goes from 97.240 Mbps to between 110 and 111 Mbps... why is that?
Mike

Crosstalk. As more lines are in use noise goes up and attainables drop a small bit.

dxhound2005 · 12-03-2014 8:39pm

Tonio wrote: »

Forgive me if these are stupid questions. Why do the upload speeds not get bumped up with vectoring switched on? Does vectoring only benefit the download speed? Is 20Mb/s the limit for upload via VDSL2?

I don't know if there is a limit. I know you can have symmetrical broadband, same speed up and down, but possibly a wireless only product? The only thing we have to go on still is the Eircom press release from last Sept, no mention there of upload speeds.

http://pressroom.eircom.net/press_releases/article/eircoms_Fibre_Network_to_Offer_Broadband_Speeds_of_100Mb/

I notice that UPC are still only 10 Meg upload even on their 200 Meg download product.

BionicRasher · 12-03-2014 10:26pm

bk wrote: »

If you sign up to eVision you get put on a "stable" profile rather then a "normal" profile. This means you trade speed for stability of the connection.

For example if previously you were on the 70mb "normal" profile and signed up for eVision, then you would be changed to a 50mb "stable" profile.

This is one of the major downsides of eVision. Another is that eVision uses your actual bandwidth while a stream is active (watching or recording a channel). It uses 2.5mb/s per SD stream or 10mb/s per HD stream, this is in addition to being moved to a stable profile. UPC doesn't suffer from this problem at all, their TV service is entirely separate from their broadband service. Watching TV has no impact on the BB speed.

BTW just because your line can achieve a higher data rate, doesn't mean Eircom will sell you that profile. For instance my parents attainable download rate is 100mb/s even before vectoring was enabled (they are literally 10 meters from the cabinet), but Eircom put them on a 70mb/s profile as until now, that is the fastest profile Eircom made available.

Ahh come on don't start the eVision bashing again.

bk wrote: »

Oh, so I've found the (proposed) new profiles for Vectoring enabled exchanges in this document:

http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1068

High Speed Internet Profiles:

Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps) - Up (Mbps)
300m - 100 - 20
450m - 90 - 20
525m - 80 - 20
600m - 60 - 20
750m - 50 - 20
850m - 40 - 10
1000m - 30 - 8
1200m - 25 - 8
1300m - 18 - 5
1500m - 15 - 3
1700m - 12 - 1
2000m - 7 -1

High Stability profiles (for eVision)
Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps - Fixed) - Up (Mbps - Rate Adaptive)
300m - 85 - 5 to 20
450m - 80 - 5 to 20
525m - 70 - 5 to 20
600m - 60 - 5 to 20
650m - 50 - 5 to 16
750m - 40 - 5 to 16
850m - 34 - 5 to 16
1000m - 28 - 50 to 15
1200m - 20 - 2.5 to 8
1300m - 18 - 2.5 to 7
1500m - 12 - 0.25 to 1
1750m - 10 - 0.25 to 1
2000m - 4 - 0.25 to 1

Really interesting, so a couple of things to note.

- Even if your line can "attain" higher speeds (for instance 130mb/s in the case of my parents with vectoring), Eircom will only sell a max of 100mb/s to them.

- Almost everyone is seeing a very large speed increase.

- Eircom will now allow VDSL to be sold out to 2km, versus just 1km when they first rolled it out. This is fantastic news for rural Ireland.

7mb down, 1mb up might not sound very exciting, but for those in rural areas, this can be a massive jump up from a crappy, very unstable potentially 1mb/200k ADSL1 connection.

7mb would allow such people to easily do Video Calling and SD youtube and Netflix, it should also just be possible to do HD Netflix and Youtube, a great and very welcome improvement for such people.

Even better 12/1 out to 1750m is even better, this is a very decent speed that makes most current internet services work very well including most HD streaming.

This is really really good news for rural Ireland. Now we just have to try and make sure that every village in Ireland has at least one fibre connected cab at the centre of the village. Such fibre can then be used to help feed LTE and fixed wireless to those more then 2km from the village.

Some of those speeds would be great. I would be happy with a stable 50Mbps anyday.

BTW how do I see Attainable Net Data Rate on the Vodafone HG658c?

OneEightSeven · 12-03-2014 10:37pm

BionicRasher wrote: »

Ahh come on don't start the eVision bashing again.

It's a poor concept. They don't have enough bandwidth for IPTV and to compete with UPC as well.

Some of those speeds would be great. I would be happy with a stable 50Mbps anyday.

BTW how do I see Attainable Net Data Rate on the Vodafone HG658c?

I don't think you can see your attainable net data rate. When I get my VDSL upgrade, I'll have to ask the technician when he installs it because I'm with Vodafone as well and I have that router, too.

pistolpetes11 · 12-03-2014 10:54pm

bk wrote: »

Oh, so I've found the (proposed) new profiles for Vectoring enabled exchanges in this document:

http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1068

High Speed Internet Profiles:

Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps) - Up (Mbps)
300m - 100 - 20
450m - 90 - 20
525m - 80 - 20
600m - 60 - 20
750m - 50 - 20
850m - 40 - 10
1000m - 30 - 8
1200m - 25 - 8
1300m - 18 - 5
1500m - 15 - 3
1700m - 12 - 1
2000m - 7 -1

High Stability profiles (for eVision)
Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps - Fixed) - Up (Mbps - Rate Adaptive)
300m - 85 - 5 to 20
450m - 80 - 5 to 20
525m - 70 - 5 to 20
600m - 60 - 5 to 20
650m - 50 - 5 to 16
750m - 40 - 5 to 16
850m - 34 - 5 to 16
1000m - 28 - 50 to 15
1200m - 20 - 2.5 to 8
1300m - 18 - 2.5 to 7
1500m - 12 - 0.25 to 1
1750m - 10 - 0.25 to 1
2000m - 4 - 0.25 to 1

Really interesting, so a couple of things to note.

- Even if your line can "attain" higher speeds (for instance 130mb/s in the case of my parents with vectoring), Eircom will only sell a max of 100mb/s to them.

- Almost everyone is seeing a very large speed increase.

- Eircom will now allow VDSL to be sold out to 2km, versus just 1km when they first rolled it out. This is fantastic news for rural Ireland.

7mb down, 1mb up might not sound very exciting, but for those in rural areas, this can be a massive jump up from a crappy, very unstable potentially 1mb/200k ADSL1 connection.

7mb would allow such people to easily do Video Calling and SD youtube and Netflix, it should also just be possible to do HD Netflix and Youtube, a great and very welcome improvement for such people.

Even better 12/1 out to 1750m is even better, this is a very decent speed that makes most current internet services work very well including most HD streaming.

This is really really good news for rural Ireland. Now we just have to try and make sure that every village in Ireland has at least one fibre connected cab at the centre of the village. Such fibre can then be used to help feed LTE and fixed wireless to those more then 2km from the village.

There is some great speeds there , one problem ....... contention , a lot of folks out side of the 1K mark I think will suffer massively from it.

My speed goes from around 70 outside of peak times to 14-19 down

and from 16-20 to 9-12 upload in peak times .

Does any one know what is the contention ratio on eFibre ?

kaizersoze · 12-03-2014 11:42pm

bk wrote: »

Oh, so I've found the (proposed) new profiles for Vectoring enabled exchanges in this document:

http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1068

High Speed Internet Profiles:

Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps) - Up (Mbps)
300m - 100 - 20
450m - 90 - 20
525m - 80 - 20
600m - 60 - 20
750m - 50 - 20
850m - 40 - 10
1000m - 30 - 8
1200m - 25 - 8
1300m - 18 - 5
1500m - 15 - 3
1700m - 12 - 1
2000m - 7 -1

High Stability profiles (for eVision)
Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps - Fixed) - Up (Mbps - Rate Adaptive)
300m - 85 - 5 to 20
450m - 80 - 5 to 20
525m - 70 - 5 to 20
600m - 60 - 5 to 20
650m - 50 - 5 to 16
750m - 40 - 5 to 16
850m - 34 - 5 to 16
1000m - 28 - 50 to 15
1200m - 20 - 2.5 to 8
1300m - 18 - 2.5 to 7
1500m - 12 - 0.25 to 1
1750m - 10 - 0.25 to 1
2000m - 4 - 0.25 to 1

Really interesting, so a couple of things to note.

- Even if your line can "attain" higher speeds (for instance 130mb/s in the case of my parents with vectoring), Eircom will only sell a max of 100mb/s to them.

- Almost everyone is seeing a very large speed increase.

- Eircom will now allow VDSL to be sold out to 2km, versus just 1km when they first rolled it out. This is fantastic news for rural Ireland.

7mb down, 1mb up might not sound very exciting, but for those in rural areas, this can be a massive jump up from a crappy, very unstable potentially 1mb/200k ADSL1 connection.

7mb would allow such people to easily do Video Calling and SD youtube and Netflix, it should also just be possible to do HD Netflix and Youtube, a great and very welcome improvement for such people.

Even better 12/1 out to 1750m is even better, this is a very decent speed that makes most current internet services work very well including most HD streaming.

This is really really good news for rural Ireland. Now we just have to try and make sure that every village in Ireland has at least one fibre connected cab at the centre of the village. Such fibre can then be used to help feed LTE and fixed wireless to those more then 2km from the village.

Good post.

kingtiger · 12-03-2014 11:48pm

should i be getting higher speed with these stats?

dalta5billion · 12-03-2014 11:51pm

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

There is some great speeds there , one problem ....... contention , a lot of folks out side of the 1K mark I think will suffer massively from it.

Unless they're somehow suffering from more cross-talk at night I don't see how those at >1000m will suffer from more contention than those at 5 metres - it's the same cabinet backhaul.

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Does any one know what is the contention ratio on eFibre ?

Eircom's network seems to have gone to s*it recently so we can't judge. NGB (ADSL etc) is marketed as 1:1. It'd be worrying if eFibre wasn't 1:1.

ED E · 13-03-2014 12:04am

bk wrote: »

- Eircom will now allow VDSL to be sold out to 2km, versus just 1km when they first rolled it out. This is fantastic news for rural Ireland.

Its been available for over a month in fact. Great for those lucky enough to be in an area with enough custs to warrant a VDSL cab.

kaizersoze · 13-03-2014 12:34am

Fibre install in Ballinasloe today.

Blue rack are the terminations from the exchange,
Green terminations are from customer premises,
White are the 200 pair terminations from the fibre cab.

pistolpetes11 · 13-03-2014 12:45am

dalta5billion wrote: »

Unless they're somehow suffering from more cross-talk at night I don't see how those at >1000m will suffer from more contention than those at 5 metres - it's the same cabinet backhaul.

Eircom's network seems to have gone to s*it recently so we can't judge. NGB (ADSL etc) is marketed as 1:1. It'd be worrying if eFibre wasn't 1:1.

Its not mentioned anywhere on the Eircom Website thats its un congested , yet the 24GB NGB is marked as un congested .

What I meant about the evenings and being outside of 1000M is , Im losing around 75% of my download speed in the evenings , That still leaves me with 14-20MB

The further away from the cab you are the less you get so in theory your going to end up worse off till it comes to a point of diminishing returns

Nonoperational · 13-03-2014 1:51am

It's supposed to be uncongested if there is adequate backhaul available. I get full speeds 24/7. Very good product so far.

bk · 13-03-2014 11:26am

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

What I meant about the evenings and being outside of 1000M is , Im losing around 75% of my download speed in the evenings , That still leaves me with 14-20MB

The further away from the cab you are the less you get so in theory your going to end up worse off till it comes to a point of diminishing returns

No, there is no contention between the cab and your home. That part of the network is 1:1.

If you are seeing a 75% drop in speeds in the evenings, so are people less then 1000 meters from the cab.

Contention starts at the cab and along the fibre to the rest of the network. This speed drop you are seeing is contention at some other point deep in Eircoms network.

If you want to be pedantic line speed can change throughout the day as copper lines are effected by temperature, rain, etc. However you would be talking about only a 1 or 2 mb difference, not a 75% drop.

SpaceTime · 13-03-2014 11:47am

I suspect the efibre NGA product and ADSL2+ may be back hauled very differently too.

Legacy ADSL (up to 8mbit) products aren't even on the same core network in some cases.

I've been getting a steady high speed 24/7.

godskitchen · 13-03-2014 12:19pm

I have never seen any drop in speeds on any of the vdsl sites I look after.

It's been rock solid apart from some modem resets in the early days.

captain_boycott · 13-03-2014 2:18pm

anyone know if vectoring is enabled in Castlebar yet?

pistolpetes11 · 13-03-2014 5:00pm

Il run a program test on it tonight and into tomorrow and she see what it shows up , cheers

SpaceTime · 13-03-2014 6:53pm

Any sign off vectoring enabled in Cork City in any of the exchange areas yet?

Cork981 · 13-03-2014 7:59pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

Any sign off vectoring enabled in Cork City in any of the exchange areas yet?

Don't think so, I'm on the churchfield exchange and haven't seen any changes yet.

I'm checking daily.

When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

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