STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Stove Fan · 05-02-2012 3:15pm

DickyRock wrote: »

Thanks for that link, and for 30 deg. bend tips Stove Fan. Every answer seems to lead to another question, so I hope you have the patience to bear with me! Twinwall-support bases; the guy I have been in discussions with about doing the install has said one wouldn't be required to support a flue length of 3-4m. I was reluctant to agree with him, as the alternative is to run a metre length of twinwall at a 45 deg. angle through the wall and have a 45 deg. bend at the end of that on the outside, with the 3-4m run above it. The wall brackets would be providing horizontal support, but vertical support is then down to the metre of twinwall running through the wall. The installer is certified, so I am second guessing myself, but when looking at the recommendations of the companies that make twinwall flues, they all say the brackets are only for horizontal support, and that a base support is needed for the vertical. What would your opinion be on this?

No problem at all. I would definately fit the base support and then use the 45 degree tee with end cap. This cap caps off the base of the flue. The major advantage of this setup is for sweeping as you undo the cap and can sweep the vertical flue from the outside this keeping the dirt outside:D

The flue pipe from stove to outside 45 degree T can be swept from inside through the stove or you could buy a single walled 45 degree elbow with a soot door instead.

The installers idea would be cheaper in parts but would make more mess in the house when it was sweep time:(

Stove Fan:)

DickyRock · 05-02-2012 9:35pm

That's something I hadn't considered, so thanks...another invaluable piece of advice from you.

theduke1 · 05-02-2012 10:34pm

hi stove fan or anybody else that can help
looking for info ,i want to put a boiler stove in my sunroom
15ft x 12 .have 2 double rads1000x500,2 double rads800x500,1 double rad 600x500 and 3 small single rads 500x500 and also the hot water to heat ,can you tell me what kw stove i require bearing in mind that the room has 6 windows and double glass doors ie more glass that wall . that is why i cannot keep it warm i also have 2 french door i will be opening out to heat kit/dine area if i can
cheers

Stove Fan · 05-02-2012 11:37pm

theduke1 wrote: »

hi stove fan or anybody else that can help
looking for info ,i want to put a boiler stove in my sunroom
15ft x 12 .have 2 double rads1000x500,2 double rads800x500,1 double rad 600x500 and 3 small single rads 500x500 and also the hot water to heat ,can you tell me what kw stove i require bearing in mind that the room has 6 windows and double glass doors ie more glass that wall . that is why i cannot keep it warm i also have 2 french door i will be opening out to heat kit/dine area if i can
cheers

Hi, I have calculated you need a 12kw back boiler on the stove and an output of 5 or 6kw to room.

To heat an average room of that size you need 3kw but as there is more glass than wall I would go for a room output from the stove of 5kw. At least it should be warm:) You say you will open the double doors. I presume the kitchen/diner has one of the rads in it though so 5kw should be plenty unless the insulation is poor in the house.

Stove Fan:)

theduke1 · 05-02-2012 11:49pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi, I have calculated you need a 12kw back boiler on the stove and an output of 5 or 6kw to room.

To heat an average room of that size you need 3kw but as there is more glass than wall I would go for a room output from the stove of 5kw. At least it should be warm:) You say you will open the double doors. I presume the kitchen/diner has one of the rads in it though so 5kw should be plenty unless the insulation is poor in the house.

Stove Fan:)

cheers
no all the rads are upstairs i have under floor downstairs an that will be still run off the oil

DickyRock · 06-02-2012 12:33am

For those of you yet to pull the trigger on a wood burning stove, here's probably the most objectively written and worthwhile article on the subject I've come across yet;

http://idostuff.co.uk/sections/Random/Wood%20Burning/Living%20with%20a%20wood%20burner%201.html

I read this before deciding to buy a stove, and came close to deciding against buying one as a result, instead choosing to properly insulate my home first before tackling how to heat it without shelling out ever increasing amounts for kerosene.

The author concludes that if you're using gas to heat your home, then a wood burning stove will cost you more to run, but there's lots of other valuable information in the piece for would-be stove buyers and so I highly recommend a read of it.

Stove Fan · 06-02-2012 1:34am

DickyRock wrote: »

For those of you yet to pull the trigger on a wood burning stove, here's probably the most objectively written and worthwhile article on the subject I've come across yet;

http://idostuff.co.uk/sections/Random/Wood%20Burning/Living%20with%20a%20wood%20burner%201.html

I read this before deciding to buy a stove, and came close to deciding against buying one as a result, instead choosing to properly insulate my home first before tackling how to heat it without shelling out ever increasing amounts for kerosene.

The author concludes that if you're using gas to heat your home, then a wood burning stove will cost you more to run, but there's lots of other valuable information in the piece for would-be stove buyers and so I highly recommend a read of it.

An interesting read:) I totally agree with him that a woodburning stove wouldn't be cheaper to run than mains gas if buying logs at full price. Oil/LPG gas yes there is a saving, more so with coal.
His gas bill seems very low for the size of house and no insulation:eek: Must be more hardy than us:D
Insulation as you say is the best overall saving. You can't have too much:D We use a multifuel boiler stove only and spent 650 euro last winter on coal over 7 months and this winter burning 95% wood will of spent 800 euro during the same period:(

We prefer the wood as it's cleaner but will probably try smokeless and some wood next winter.
We like the glow of a real fire and like it 21 degrees + all over!! I would say our oil consumption would be about 1,500 euro at least. We have insulated our older bungalow using a lot of kingspan plasterboards:)
Insulation does make a big difference:)

Stove Fan:)

bod71 · 06-02-2012 8:58pm

hi stove fan, i'm interested in the woodwarm6.5kw inset stove, i got a price back of a dublin supplier today it was nearly 1800e. I think i remember in an older post that you paid about £1000 for yours, if so can you pass me on the details of your supplier. Thanks.

Stove Fan · 06-02-2012 11:51pm

bod71 wrote: »

hi stove fan, i'm interested in the woodwarm6.5kw inset stove, i got a price back of a dublin supplier today it was nearly 1800e. I think i remember in an older post that you paid about £1000 for yours, if so can you pass me on the details of your supplier. Thanks.

You have a Pm:)

bod71 · 07-02-2012 1:48pm

Thanks.

sages · 07-02-2012 4:35pm

Hi just looking for some advice. It seem the more research I do the more conflicting info i get.

Anyway my situation. The room itself is approx 24ftx12ftx8ft. It is a flat roof extention with its own chimney not lined approx 7m high. The fireplace opening is 32"high Width 26" Depth 18" on granite base with red brick all around. I know I will probably need to bring out base another few inches to accomadate space around stove

I dont need to heat rads so I recon a 6-7Kw freestanding stove should suffice? Also I will be lining the chimney but as I would like to keep costs at a minimum then I was thinking of using flexable to top of chimney then attached to 1m twin lined then to storm cowel. I have also had conflicting info about whether its worth packing around the lining with vermiculite?

I appreciate its a personal taste thing but I have budgeted up to €1500 and would appreciate peoples opinions on best current stoves taking into account warrenties/parts availability etc I have looked at Olymbery Victoria but to be honest they all look similar to me

Any opinions on the above would be very much appreciated.

Stove Fan · 07-02-2012 5:43pm

sages wrote: »

Hi just looking for some advice. It seem the more research I do the more conflicting info i get.

Anyway my situation. The room itself is approx 24ftx12ftx8ft. It is a flat roof extention with its own chimney not lined approx 7m high. The fireplace opening is 32"high Width 26" Depth 18" on granite base with red brick all around. I know I will probably need to bring out base another few inches to accomadate space around stove

I dont need to heat rads so I recon a 6-7Kw freestanding stove should suffice? Also I will be lining the chimney but as I would like to keep costs at a minimum then I was thinking of using flexable to top of chimney then attached to 1m twin lined then to storm cowel. I have also had conflicting info about whether its worth packing around the lining with vermiculite?

I appreciate its a personal taste thing but I have budgeted up to €1500 and would appreciate peoples opinions on best current stoves taking into account warrenties/parts availability etc I have looked at Olymbery Victoria but to be honest they all look similar to me

Any opinions on the above would be very much appreciated.

Hi:) With regards to lining you will only need the flexible liner and just a chimney pot then use a pot hanging cowel to finish ontop of the chimney pot. You can backfill with vermiculite if you like but not totally necessary if an internal chimney.

A 6kw stove should be plenty!

If your having someone to supply and fit the stove I think you will struggle with your budget, unless it's a cheap Chinese imported stove. If you can DIY then try to spend more on a quality stove:)

Woodwarm 6kw fireview are very good:). UK made. Although 1200 euro in the uk.http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/6kw.ashx

You will definately need to have the stove 50% out of the fireplace because of the narrow width:(.

Budget stoves are Hunter,villager, yeoman. UK made.

Have a look at www.whatstove.co.uk for pictures and owner reviews of different makes and models. See if you like any of them:)

Stove Fan:)

JMSE · 08-02-2012 9:09pm

Not purely a stove issue but open fire as well....

All of the timber I burn is ex wood packaging material from international container transport, not pallets but straight cut softwoods and hardwoods from various countries around the globe.

As these timbers are used in sealed containers I worried that maybe fumigants were used to eliminate pests. The timbers are normally clearly stamped too. So I did some research.

There are two ways to treat timbers under the ISPM15 standard (regulation of wood packaging material in international trade), heat treatment-HT and methyl bromide fumigation - MB. Your average pallet or crate or length of softwood/hardwood that comes out of a container will have a stamp which clearly shows the letters HT or MB.

So the upshot of all this is that I now have a load of MB stamped timber which I am uber-dubious about burning even in my stove.

Has anyone else anything to add to this or is there any advice on burning this pre-fumigated stuff?

Stove Fan · 08-02-2012 10:07pm

JMSE wrote: »

Not purely a stove issue but open fire as well....

All of the timber I burn is ex wood packaging material from international container transport, not pallets but straight cut softwoods and hardwoods from various countries around the globe.

As these timbers are used in sealed containers I worried that maybe fumigants were used to eliminate pests. The timbers are normally clearly stamped too. So I did some research.

There are two ways to treat timbers under the ISPM15 standard (regulation of wood packaging material in international trade), heat treatment-HT and methyl bromide fumigation - MB. Your average pallet or crate or length of softwood/hardwood that comes out of a container will have a stamp which clearly shows the letters HT or MB.

So the upshot of all this is that I now have a load of MB stamped timber which I am uber-dubious about burning even in my stove.

Has anyone else anything to add to this or is there any advice on burning this pre-fumigated stuff?

Hi:) Treated timber shouldn't be burnt as they release all of these toxic chemicals into the atmosphere when burnt.

https://www.google.com/search?q=googleuk&rls=com.microsoft:en-ie:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7TSEH_en#pq=googleuk&hl=en&tok=F8Pr1QomhOQlNwC8cYG8yg&cp=20&gs_id=2m&xhr=t&q=burning+treated+wood&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&rls=com.microsoft:en-ie%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7TSEH_en&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=burning+treated+wood&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=3b6976d17058900d&biw=1366&bih=587

A lot of pallets are treated and in the UK if you get caught carrying any waste including wood you may need to have a waste carriers licence issued from the environment agency:eek: If you don't have one it's a fine:eek:
http://www.anyjunk.co.uk/blog/waste-carrier-license

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-293835.html

Coles · 09-02-2012 9:45am

JMSE wrote: »

Not purely a stove issue but open fire as well....

All of the timber I burn is ex wood packaging material from international container transport, not pallets but straight cut softwoods and hardwoods from various countries around the globe.

As these timbers are used in sealed containers I worried that maybe fumigants were used to eliminate pests. The timbers are normally clearly stamped too. So I did some research.

There are two ways to treat timbers under the ISPM15 standard (regulation of wood packaging material in international trade), heat treatment-HT and methyl bromide fumigation - MB. Your average pallet or crate or length of softwood/hardwood that comes out of a container will have a stamp which clearly shows the letters HT or MB.

So the upshot of all this is that I now have a load of MB stamped timber which I am uber-dubious about burning even in my stove.

Has anyone else anything to add to this or is there any advice on burning this pre-fumigated stuff?

I wouldn't have any worries about burning Methyl Bromide fumigated pallet timber, but I would have a serious hesitation in burning timber that has been pressure treated with any chromium based preservative.

Methyl Bromide is used as a fumigant pesticide to kill living creatures that might otherwise be hitching a lift on the shipment of goods. It is an extremely toxic substance, and it's use is being phased out because of the damage it does directly to the Ozone layer. The solution boils at an extremely low temperature (4°C) so it disperses into the air but because it is not applied under pressure it doesn't penetrate deeply into the pallet timber. Even if it did, by the time you cut it up and burn it the quantity of MB in the timber would be miniscule.

Methyl Bromide is not just used to fumigate pallets, but also all the produce that is shipped internationally, including fresh food produce.

Timber that has been pressure treated with preservatives shouldn't be burned. Either should processed wood products, painted or varnished timber etc...

johnire · 09-02-2012 6:36pm

Hi there.
I am thinking of installing a stove into my sunroom.
Im not interested in hooking it up to the existing heating system.

The rrom itself is small..about 2.5 m x 3 m and about 3 m highh....there is an apex design so the highest point is prob about 4 m in total.
I have only 1 place I can put the stove and thats between 2 windows and the space is small...about 55 cm high and 40 cm wide.
Ive done a bitof research and the Arrow Acorn would just about fit that space.
Will there be sufficent heat from this stove for a room thta size?
Also the other problem I have is the chimney that will have to go out the back.
How will that work?Will it have to extend from the back of thestove through the wall and then staright up...from a looks point of view I wouldnt be too happy with that...is there any way rould that at all??

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Stove Fan · 09-02-2012 11:25pm

johnire wrote: »

Hi there.
I am thinking of installing a stove into my sunroom.
Im not interested in hooking it up to the existing heating system.

The rrom itself is small..about 2.5 m x 3 m and about 3 m highh....there is an apex design so the highest point is prob about 4 m in total.
I have only 1 place I can put the stove and thats between 2 windows and the space is small...about 55 cm high and 40 cm wide.
Ive done a bitof research and the Arrow Acorn would just about fit that space.
Will there be sufficent heat from this stove for a room thta size?
Also the other problem I have is the chimney that will have to go out the back.
How will that work?Will it have to extend from the back of thestove through the wall and then staright up...from a looks point of view I wouldnt be too happy with that...is there any way rould that at all??

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I would say a 3kw stove would be plenty. You could go up to 4kw if you like. You could always bring the stove forward more from the wall. This may be the only option as the stove needs to be a set distance from anything flammable Ie the window frames:).
The only options for the flue are a vertical flue through the roof or out through the wall and up.
Another option for a stove would be a villager puffin.
http://www.villager.co.uk/stoves/multifuel-stoves/puffin.html

I would get an installer in to have a look and see if the stove location is ok:)

Stove Fan:)

wolfeye · 10-02-2012 10:10pm

Hi Folks.
Just bought a stanley oisin to give the living room more heat.
Presently have an open fire with clay flue.
Will be taking down the fire surround and connecting the free standing stove from behind to the chimney flue .
I got a kit also to connect the 5 inch outlet at back of stove to the 8 inch flue.
The house is approx 15 years old.
Thing is do i need to get the flexi stainless steel liner ,or will corrosion really eat into the clay lined flue?
If i use the steel liner that goes from stove to top of chimney will i need a soot box?
I guess if i dont use the liner i'll need install a soot box.?
i'll be buring wood and coal mix.
Thanks for any help

wolfeye.

Stove Fan · 11-02-2012 9:55pm

wolfeye wrote: »

Hi Folks.
Just bought a stanley oisin to give the living room more heat.
Presently have an open fire with clay flue.
Will be taking down the fire surround and connecting the free standing stove from behind to the chimney flue .
I got a kit also to connect the 5 inch outlet at back of stove to the 8 inch flue.
The house is approx 15 years old.
Thing is do i need to get the flexi stainless steel liner ,or will corrosion really eat into the clay lined flue?
If i use the steel liner that goes from stove to top of chimney will i need a soot box?
I guess if i dont use the liner i'll need install a soot box.?
i'll be buring wood and coal mix.
Thanks for any help

wolfeye.

Hi:) The full length flexi liner is a much better job than using a clay adapter. Don't forget that you can only have 150mm of horizontal run. Any more and you risk a blockage and 45 degree bends are much better for flow than 90 degree.

It would be better to use a 45 bend on the stoves rear outlet and a short piece of ridgid pipe then the other 45 bend to go to vertical with a short length of pipe to the clay adapter if there is room.

A much better job would be to use a 45 degree bend on the rear of the stove then a short piece and then connect to the stainless steel flexible liner.

The main problem with clay adapters is getting a good tar tight join. The liner would help keep the chimney warm as going from 5 inch to 8 inch is quite a difference. The liner would be the better job and make sweeping easy.

If I was doing this job I would fit a stainless flexible liner:)

Stove Fan:)

wolfeye · 13-02-2012 2:43pm

Thanks Stove Fan for the reply.

Is it better to go with the 5 inch flexi liner or 6.?
Local builder supplier has both options.
I think i read somewhere 6 is better incase of blockage?
Do people use soot boxs now a days or just clean chimney down into stove?
Does it make a difference if connected to top or rear of stove?
The more read about this topic the more questions i have.

wolfeye.

Stove Fan · 13-02-2012 6:56pm

wolfeye wrote: »

Thanks Stove Fan for the reply.

Is it better to go with the 5 inch flexi liner or 6.?
Local builder supplier has both options.
I think i read somewhere 6 is better incase of blockage?
Do people use soot boxs now a days or just clean chimney down into stove?
Does it make a difference if connected to top or rear of stove?
The more read about this topic the more questions i have.

wolfeye.

Hi, 6 inch is better if you can get it down a clay lined chimney. 6 inch gives more choice in stoves in the future.

Depending on the stove most can be swept through the stove unless it's a boiler version or theres a flue damper in the way. In the stove your interested in it will say in the manual about sweeping acess but if it's not possible you can always fit a flue pipe with built in soot door.

It doesnt really make any difference if you use the top or rear flue providing that if using the rear flue you have no more than 6 inch of horizontal pipe. I prefer top flued but some like to cook on the top of a flat topped stove so they prefer rear flued.

Stove Fan:)

aoifeb · 14-02-2012 1:06am

Hi, I hope this is the right forum for this. I've been trying to get accurate technical details about inis meain boiler stove- i've contacted the manufacturer and not had a reply (by email, I rang as well and felt like I was being pawned off with empty sales patter.) Although looks are important to me for a stove, even more important is the technical spec and ensuring it is fit for purpose for my new build house (100m2, highly insulated, mvhr). I definitely do not want my house to be overheated. can anyone help?

FYI- not been able to get satisfactory information from my local dealer either. normally i would just dismiss a product given these difficulties but the stove is one of the nicest looking ones, similar to the clean lines of Clearview stoves while being a bit more affordable.

perhaps i;m being too demanding but i would like to be able to compare the technical manuals of all the stoves i am considering and unlike most other manufacturers, I can't find any technical manuals for the inis stoves on their website.

in addition- anyone know where i could find a review of the inis stoves by actual users- my local dealer says they are his best selling stoves but that's all i have to go on....

hope this post is within site rules- i have no wish for any advertisements- I just want to see some reviews for these stoves before parting with my hard earned cash!

thanks
a

heinbloed · 14-02-2012 1:21am

Aoifeb asks:

can anyone help?

Maybe not anyone, but sure someone.

perhaps i;m being too demanding ....

A technical question wouldn't be too demanding, not at all.....

Give the numbers and we tell you how to do the calculations. And put plenty of advertising into the answers .....

Valleys · 14-02-2012 3:09pm

Hello
Does anyone on here have any experience of Hamco Twin wall FLues? Very hard to find information on them, heard from soemone that there is more heat off them than other twin wall flues and they meant this in a negative way. Would appreciate any information as guy I bought stove off has used Hamco but I have now changed installer and no one else seems to have heard of it. Would appreciate help and advise on this if any out there, thanks in advance

zuluireland · 14-02-2012 7:31pm

Apologies if this has already been covered.....

I have been on the net all afternoon looking for answers and eventually ended up registering with boards.ie....but it's a mine field out there if like me, you've never been on this site before.

I want to install a back boiler stove in my home. I currently have an open fire place, no back boiler, an oil fired system which heats radiators and water, house is zoned into living and sleeping area's.

I have had 3 plumbers here this week to give me a price on the job, only the third guy said that I couldn't have a back boiler stove at all as all my current pipe work is in plastic, and that the plastic may not cope with the heat

I understand that the connection from the stove to the tank in the hot press would have to be in copper, i'd need a new tank and a couple of other bits.

Does the fact that the rest of my home is piped in plastic mean that we can't have a back boiler stove?

The other 2 plumbers never mentioned this at all, although they both have different approaches of installation; one ripping up the floor boards between the stove and hp the other putting all pipework in the attic and raising the tank in the attic even higher (this is how the third plumber said he would do it too if we had copper pipes)

Hope you can shed some light on this as I cant seem to get a definitive answer from someone who actually knows what they are talking about

The stanley technical guy is ringing me in the morning to give his opinion as it's the reginald we wanted to get

Thanks for your time

Stove Fan · 14-02-2012 11:39pm

Zuluireland,

You have a Pm:)

Stove Fan · 14-02-2012 11:54pm

aoifeb wrote: »

Hi, I hope this is the right forum for this. I've been trying to get accurate technical details about inis meain boiler stove- i've contacted the manufacturer and not had a reply (by email, I rang as well and felt like I was being pawned off with empty sales patter.) Although looks are important to me for a stove, even more important is the technical spec and ensuring it is fit for purpose for my new build house (100m2, highly insulated, mvhr). I definitely do not want my house to be overheated. can anyone help?

FYI- not been able to get satisfactory information from my local dealer either. normally i would just dismiss a product given these difficulties but the stove is one of the nicest looking ones, similar to the clean lines of Clearview stoves while being a bit more affordable.

perhaps i;m being too demanding but i would like to be able to compare the technical manuals of all the stoves i am considering and unlike most other manufacturers, I can't find any technical manuals for the inis stoves on their website.

in addition- anyone know where i could find a review of the inis stoves by actual users- my local dealer says they are his best selling stoves but that's all i have to go on....

hope this post is within site rules- i have no wish for any advertisements- I just want to see some reviews for these stoves before parting with my hard earned cash!

thanks
a

Hi

Have you had a plumber out to calculate the required boiler stove size and the heat required to heat the room with the stove?
This should be your first job:) You or your plumber can then look for stoves that match these two outputs.
Clearview is an excellent make but may be too big a stove the same as the inis stove.

To give you an idea We have a detatched bungalow 105sqm and heat it entirely with a boiler stove. It produces 7.6kw to water and 3kw to the room. It's lovely and warm even last winter and heats 5 rads, (4doubles), towel rail and domestic hot water. You may only need a 10kw output boiler or less. The plumber will advice. Our bungalow is cavity walled extension and kingspan drylining on all walls internally.
Our make and model of stove has been discontinued.

Cant help with inis reviews but look here for other manufacturers.
www.whatstove.co.uk

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 14-02-2012 11:58pm

Valleys wrote: »

Hello
Does anyone on here have any experience of Hamco Twin wall FLues? Very hard to find information on them, heard from soemone that there is more heat off them than other twin wall flues and they meant this in a negative way. Would appreciate any information as guy I bought stove off has used Hamco but I have now changed installer and no one else seems to have heard of it. Would appreciate help and advise on this if any out there, thanks in advance

I don't have any knowledge on hamco twinwall:(

Pm sent:)

DrStriver · 15-02-2012 11:58am

Hi,
Quick question:

Old fireplace removed.
New "void" created to fit insert style stove, like a Stovax Riva 55/66.
Liner in place, registry plate in place, liner insulated with vermiculite.
Black granite (split into four tiles) will surround stove on front.

Should void behind and to the sides of the stove be backfilled with vermiculite or should the sides/back of the void be insulated.

Worried about heat loss out through back and sides. Chimmey breast is outside rather than in, cavity wall but poorly insulated.

DrS

Excited! · 15-02-2012 12:24pm

Hi Stovefan and others,

I am looking for some advice. Myself and my fiancee are refurbishing a farmhouse (approx 1500 sq ft) we bought and want to fit a boiler stove to heat the room it is located in and also the hot water and radiators. We will also have an oil burner as a back-up for times when we are too late back to light the fire.
Half of the farmhouse is built using old stone walls while the other half was rebuilt in the early 1970s and so is of cavity block. We plan to put internal insulation (92.5 mm insulated plasterboard) in the old half of the house and fill the cavity with pumped insulation for the newer part and we will also insulate the attic.

So far, we have got conflicting advice regarding the size of the stove required. The room where the stove will be measures approx 5.4 M x 5 M x 2.4 M high and has two doors at opposite sides of the room and also an open stairs leading to an upstairs hallway. We will have 10 radiators not including the one in the room with the stove which will be off when the stove is lighting. The rad sizes are as follows:
Upstairs: 1200 mm, 800 mm and 700 mm double rads and 700 mm and 1100 mm single rads.

Downstairs: 700 mm, 800 mm, 1000 mm, 1000 mm and 800 mm double rads.
Any help which could be provided regarding the size of stove we would need to heat our sitting room, hot water and all of these rads would be greatly appreciated. We will be burning timber and have access to an ample supply. Also, are there any makes of boiler stoves which you would think might suit our needs based on our heat requirements.

Thanks in advance.

Stove Fan · 15-02-2012 4:21pm

DrStriver wrote: »

Hi,
Quick question:

Old fireplace removed.
New "void" created to fit insert style stove, like a Stovax Riva 55/66.
Liner in place, registry plate in place, liner insulated with vermiculite.
Black granite (split into four tiles) will surround stove on front.

Should void behind and to the sides of the stove be backfilled with vermiculite or should the sides/back of the void be insulated.

Worried about heat loss out through back and sides. Chimmey breast is outside rather than in, cavity wall but poorly insulated.

DrS

Hi, definately backfill it with vermiculite mix to insulate it if you can. It depends if you can connect the flue liner after really to the stove. You will need to use something small and fill the void by putting your hand through the fire and flue outlet.
You didn't really need the registry plate as once the fire was installed could of just poured the vermiculite around the liner at the top of the chimney.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 15-02-2012 4:59pm

Excited! wrote: »

Hi Stovefan and others,

I am looking for some advice. Myself and my fiancee are refurbishing a farmhouse (approx 1500 sq ft) we bought and want to fit a boiler stove to heat the room it is located in and also the hot water and radiators. We will also have an oil burner as a back-up for times when we are too late back to light the fire.
Half of the farmhouse is built using old stone walls while the other half was rebuilt in the early 1970s and so is of cavity block. We plan to put internal insulation (92.5 mm insulated plasterboard) in the old half of the house and fill the cavity with pumped insulation for the newer part and we will also insulate the attic.

So far, we have got conflicting advice regarding the size of the stove required. The room where the stove will be measures approx 5.4 M x 5 M x 2.4 M high and has two doors at opposite sides of the room and also an open stairs leading to an upstairs hallway. We will have 10 radiators not including the one in the room with the stove which will be off when the stove is lighting. The rad sizes are as follows:
Upstairs: 1200 mm, 800 mm and 700 mm double rads and 700 mm and 1100 mm single rads.

Downstairs: 700 mm, 800 mm, 1000 mm, 1000 mm and 800 mm double rads.
Any help which could be provided regarding the size of stove we would need to heat our sitting room, hot water and all of these rads would be greatly appreciated. We will be burning timber and have access to an ample supply. Also, are there any makes of boiler stoves which you would think might suit our needs based on our heat requirements.

Thanks in advance.

Hi I have calculated that you need a stove with 17kw boiler and an output from the stove of 5kw to heat the 5x5.4m room. You could probably have a higher output to room as you could open the double doors both sides. An installer would really need to view.

There is this:
http://www.waterfordstanley.com/Products/1724.htm
4kw to room 15.6kw to water.

Or the Aarrow EB18HE. 18kw to water. 9kw to room.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb18-he.html

Just make sure you can use the 9kw to room output. But saying that the stove is quite small so may not produce that much heat to room.

Sorry I don't know of any others in that size.

Stove Fan:)

Excited! · 15-02-2012 11:52pm

Thanks stovefan, you have been very helpful. A local stove shop told us we needed a Boru 30 kW Carraig Mor stove or similar size to heat this number of radiators. However, when we mentioned this to our plumber, he said that such a stove would generate too much hot water and could be dangerous. Have you or anybody else here ever heard similar stories of oversized stove boilers creating dangerously high levels of hot water?

Also, we are breaking out a large section from the chimney breast to fit this new stove. I know that each stove requires a certain minimum clearance between its sides, back and top and the wall but my question relates to what I should line the opening with. What would you advise on this bearing in mind that we are on a budget.

Stove Fan · 16-02-2012 12:34am

Excited! wrote: »

Thanks stovefan, you have been very helpful. A local stove shop told us we needed a Boru 30 kW Carraig Mor stove or similar size to heat this number of radiators. However, when we mentioned this to our plumber, he said that such a stove would generate too much hot water and could be dangerous. Have you or anybody else here ever heard similar stories of oversized stove boilers creating dangerously high levels of hot water?

Also, we are breaking out a large section from the chimney breast to fit this new stove. I know that each stove requires a certain minimum clearance between its sides, back and top and the wall but my question relates to what I should line the opening with. What would you advise on this bearing in mind that we are on a budget.

Hi, Yes there could be a overheating problem if the stove was oversized for the heating load and it could boil the water in the system if stoked with fuel.

The cheapest option to line out the fireplace once youve opened it up is to use sand and cement with some lime as the base and use any heatproof plaster topcoat to finish. You could use the approved screed as well if you wanted.
Purimachos heat resistant plaster
http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/84,Purimachos-Products/91,Heatproof-Mortars/1

or
http://shop.vitcas.com/vitcas-heat-resistant-plaster-16-p.asp

You could also line it out with scomolex or vermiculite board but much dearer.

Stove Fan:)

Excited! · 17-02-2012 10:32am

Thanks for the sound advice stovefan, we will look into those options.

doniepony · 17-02-2012 1:50pm

Hey stovefan and everyone else

Need an external air supply for my two stoves that I am fitting. I went to local hard ware shop for flexi flue to go from the stove to the external vent in the wall and all they had was a 4'' expandable cooker hood flexi hose. I was wondering would this do as an external air supply from my stove-how do they usually attach this air supply to back of stove-does it need to be heat proof? I only need a pipe 3 metres long approx

Stove Fan · 17-02-2012 4:59pm

doniepony wrote: »

Hey stovefan and everyone else

Need an external air supply for my two stoves that I am fitting. I went to local hard ware shop for flexi flue to go from the stove to the external vent in the wall and all they had was a 4'' expandable cooker hood flexi hose. I was wondering would this do as an external air supply from my stove-how do they usually attach this air supply to back of stove-does it need to be heat proof? I only need a pipe 3 metres long approx

Hi, normally most stove suppliers supply the metal ducting as well as a kit. Ducting and wall vent. I wouldnt know how it connects it may just push on or held on with a jubilee clip.

What size is the outlet for the air supply on the stove and what stove is it?

Stove Fan:)

doniepony · 17-02-2012 7:29pm

Stovefan the duct is 4'' wide and my two are the Charnwood island 1 (freestanding) and the boru 400i (insert)..I might just go get the proper stuff in cork city tomorrow.

Another small questions please. I have got mixed reports as to how to build the chimney flue properly. My builder will build everything 'standard' unless I tell him otherwise-he usually fills around clay pots with sand cement 12:1 ratio (as well as throwing rubble in I fear). Some people are telling me to drop 6'' flexi flue inside the 8'' clay pots and fill in between with vermiculite. They say the builder can do what he likes around the clay pots then. Could anyone tell me is this neccessary with both stoves as it would add alot to the cost of the whole process.

Is there maybe an alternative?

Cheers

Kirm2 · 17-02-2012 10:36pm

Advise very greatly appreciated please.

We are looking at a 4-5kw inset stove for our open-plan sittingroom/diningroom/kitchen. We have been told totally different information by 3 separate suppliers for the same type of stove. What I really would love to know is:

1. Do you have to take out the stove every year to clean the chimney?
Answers we got: yes, no and clean from the roof down?????
2. Do we need a floo -
Answers we got: yes and no.
3. Can we install it ourselves?
Answers we got: yes, no and hell no you will kill yourselves with carbon monoxide - OMG.

Please can someone set the record straight, once and for all.

Stove Fan · 17-02-2012 11:47pm

doniepony wrote: »

Stovefan the duct is 4'' wide and my two are the Charnwood island 1 (freestanding) and the boru 400i (insert)..I might just go get the proper stuff in cork city tomorrow.

Another small questions please. I have got mixed reports as to how to build the chimney flue properly. My builder will build everything 'standard' unless I tell him otherwise-he usually fills around clay pots with sand cement 12:1 ratio (as well as throwing rubble in I fear). Some people are telling me to drop 6'' flexi flue inside the 8'' clay pots and fill in between with vermiculite. They say the builder can do what he likes around the clay pots then. Could anyone tell me is this neccessary with both stoves as it would add alot to the cost of the whole process.

Is there maybe an alternative?
Cheers

Hi, yes buy the proper kit, much easier:D
Yes, get the builder to fill around the clay liners with a dry sand/cement/lime mix. No rubble as it can cause hotspots in the liners.

Lining the flue with a flexible stainless liner is the best job and much better than just the clay liners.
I myself would line the chimneys and possibly backfill around the liner with vermiculite, and definately around an inbuilt insert fire.

The liner keeps the chimney dry,
Better draw,
Better fire safety.
Easier to sweep.
No danger of tar/condensation leaking out the base of the clay liner adapter.

Stove Fan.

Stove Fan · 17-02-2012 11:55pm

Kirm2 wrote: »

Advise very greatly appreciated please.

We are looking at a 4-5kw inset stove for our open-plan sittingroom/diningroom/kitchen. We have been told totally different information by 3 separate suppliers for the same type of stove. What I really would love to know is:

1. Do you have to take out the stove every year to clean the chimney?
Answers we got: yes, no and clean from the roof down?????
2. Do we need a floo -
Answers we got: yes and no.
3. Can we install it ourselves?
Answers we got: yes, no and hell no you will kill yourselves with carbon monoxide - OMG.

Please can someone set the record straight, once and for all.

1 no, you should be able to sweep the chimney without removing the stove. It would be a bad stove design or installation if you did have too:) Crazy idea to sweep from above, how dangerous.

2 what is a floo? Do you mean chimney/flue? If so definately yes.

3, If confident and have the skills and follow the stoves installation instructions religiously then yes, but if not best to get it fitted.

Carbon monoxide is lethal so install an co alarm.

Stove Fan:)

Kirm2 · 18-02-2012 1:41pm

Stovefan - thank you sooo much, really very much appreciated.

by flue

I mean the cylinder tube that fits onto the stove and goes up the chimney - sorry if I explaining this wrong I hope you know what I mean. We were told by one person that because its using the chimney itself we don't need one but another person said to stop residue collecting ontop of the stove we do.

Also could you tell me - does it need to be sealed in?

Stove Fan · 18-02-2012 5:44pm

Kirm2 wrote: »

Stovefan - thank you sooo much, really very much appreciated.

by flue I mean the cylinder tube that fits onto the stove and goes up the chimney - sorry if I explaining this wrong I hope you know what I mean. We were told by one person that because its using the chimney itself we don't need one but another person said to stop residue collecting ontop of the stove we do.

Also could you tell me - does it need to be sealed in?

hi, The inset stove will probably come with a gasket and the inset stove will be fixed in place against the fireplace opening front to compress this gasket and any voids behind/sides of the inset stove will be backfilled by the installer with a vermiculite/sand/cement mix. poured through by hand through the stove flue outlet.
If the inset stove is being fitted into a masonry chimney with a clay liner then the chimney won't need lining if it's a sound chimney.
If it's being installed to a brick/stone chimney best to line it with the stainless flexible liner.
If building a false chimneybrest with no chimney in the house, Build a new chimney using a stainless steel twin walled insulated chimney system.

Stove Fan:)

Kirm2 · 18-02-2012 7:26pm

Thats great, thank you Stovefan

rocketman2010 · 18-02-2012 8:09pm

Hi everyone (and Stovefan who seems to be an expert!)
I'm at the beginning of renovating old terraced house (practically new build) and when completed the house will be roughly 900 sq foot. I would greatly appreciate some advice re heating the house.

The house will be relatively small with a kitchen/dining room open plan, living room and two bedrooms downstairs.Upstairs will have a room en suite and the main bathroom to service the house.

My architect thinks I should have an openfire without back boiler for living room for aesthetic purposes and heat the house with oil heating. I wanted to have a back boiler as I don't see the point in spending money on setting the fire every night and then having to turn on the oil to heat the rooms/water. I would have oil heating as well for times when we didn't have a fire on. So I guess thats my first question..To install a backboiler or not?

My second question is whether to have a stove or an open fire? I am afraid that the stove will be excessively warm for the living room which is approximately 10ftx12ft. A friends house has a stove installed (without boiler) and I can't handle the heat when they have a big fire down!

From reading other posts it seems that you can regulate the stove between heating the room and heating rads/water. Is this correct?

Has anyone any opinion re which they think looks nicer ...stove or open fire? Everyone seems to be installing stoves these days so there must be good reason?

Any Advice is greatly appreciated. Keep in mind house is relatively small, has attacahed houses either side, will have around 10 rads and will be well insulated.

THANKS, ROCKETMAN

rocketman2010 · 18-02-2012 8:14pm

Hi everyone (and Stovefan who seems to be an expert!)
I'm at the beginning of renovating old terraced house (practically new build) and when completed the house will be roughly 900 sq foot. I would greatly appreciate some advice re heating the house.

The house will be relatively small with a kitchen/dining room open plan, living room and two bedrooms downstairs.Upstairs will have a room en suite and the main bathroom to service the house.

My architect thinks I should have an openfire without back boiler for living room for aesthetic purposes and heat the house with oil heating. I wanted to have a back boiler as I don't see the point in spending money on setting the fire every night and then having to turn on the oil to heat the rooms/water. I would have oil heating as well for times when we didn't have a fire on. So I guess thats my first question..To install a backboiler or not?

My second question is whether to have a stove or an open fire? I am afraid that the stove will be excessively warm for the living room which is approximately 10ftx12ft. A friends house has a stove installed (without boiler) and I can't handle the heat when they have a big fire down!

From reading other posts it seems that you can regulate the stove between heating the room and heating rads/water. Is this correct?

Any Advice is greatly appreciated. Keep in mind house is relatively small, has attacahed houses either side, will have around 10 rads and will be well insulated.

THANKS, ROCKETMAN

Stove Fan · 18-02-2012 9:46pm

rocketman2010 wrote: »

Hi everyone (and Stovefan who seems to be an expert!)
I'm at the beginning of renovating old terraced house (practically new build) and when completed the house will be roughly 900 sq foot. I would greatly appreciate some advice re heating the house.

The house will be relatively small with a kitchen/dining room open plan, living room and two bedrooms downstairs.Upstairs will have a room en suite and the main bathroom to service the house.

My architect thinks I should have an openfire without back boiler for living room for aesthetic purposes and heat the house with oil heating. I wanted to have a back boiler as I don't see the point in spending money on setting the fire every night and then having to turn on the oil to heat the rooms/water. I would have oil heating as well for times when we didn't have a fire on. So I guess thats my first question..To install a backboiler or not?

My second question is whether to have a stove or an open fire? I am afraid that the stove will be excessively warm for the living room which is approximately 10ftx12ft. A friends house has a stove installed (without boiler) and I can't handle the heat when they have a big fire down!

From reading other posts it seems that you can regulate the stove between heating the room and heating rads/water. Is this correct?

Any Advice is greatly appreciated. Keep in mind house is relatively small, has attacahed houses either side, will have around 10 rads and will be well insulated.

THANKS, ROCKETMAN

Hi:) First off definately forget the open fire full stop. An open fire is a total waste of fuel and heat. An open fire is about 20-25% efficient and a stove is around 65-80% efficient:D So more heat less fuel.
With an open fire the majority of the heat is going straight up the chimney and when not lit is sucking warmth out the house.

I would fit a condensing oil boiler or if available mains gas, backed up with a stove with backboiler, Or if mains gas is available a non boiler stove.
The mains gas heating would probably be cheaper to run especially if your paying twice to plumb the stove in as well and depending on what you pay for fuel. We find coal is the cheapest way to run the stove compared to wood only.

You need the stove sized correctly to heat the room and rads. If you turn the stove down as the living room is too hot but the other rooms aren't hot, the rads will go cooler.
You need to know how many KW the room with the stove will take to heat and the KW boiler required for the rads.
Then pick a stove that matches these two outputs.
Room output.
Boiler output.

Stove Fan:)

rocketman2010 · 19-02-2012 12:40am

Hi:) First off definately forget the open fire full stop. An open fire is a total waste of fuel and heat. An open fire is about 20-25% efficient and a stove is around 65-80% efficient:D So more heat less fuel.
With an open fire the majority of the heat is going straight up the chimney and when not lit is sucking warmth out the house.

I would fit a condensing oil boiler or if available mains gas, backed up with a stove with backboiler, Or if mains gas is available a non boiler stove.
The mains gas heating would probably be cheaper to run especially if your paying twice to plumb the stove in as well and depending on what you pay for fuel. We find coal is the cheapest way to run the stove compared to wood only.

You need the stove sized correctly to heat the room and rads. If you turn the stove down as the living room is too hot but the other rooms aren't hot, the rads will go cooler.
You need to know how many KW the room with the stove will take to heat and the KW boiler required for the rads.
Then pick a stove that matches these two outputs.
Room output.
Boiler output.

Stove Fan:)[/Quote]

Thanks Stovefan

Unfortunately we do not have access to gas. I have gone back over this thread and I think what my architect was getting at was the heat from living room would partially heat the rest of house meaning I wouldn't use much oil with the thermo valves you previously mentioned. Is this possible?

Regards the boiler, am I right in saying that i need to choose a stove to suit size of room so that I can keep the heat of stove up and if this is matched with correct output boiler the rads will stay hot as well?

Thanks again for your help

Stove Fan · 19-02-2012 8:57pm

rocketman2010 wrote: »

Thanks Stovefan

Unfortunately we do not have access to gas. I have gone back over this thread and I think what my architect was getting at was the heat from living room would partially heat the rest of house meaning I wouldn't use much oil with the thermo valves you previously mentioned. Is this possible?

Regards the boiler, am I right in saying that i need to choose a stove to suit size of room so that I can keep the heat of stove up and if this is matched with correct output boiler the rads will stay hot as well?

Thanks again for your help

Hi, Yes you could just fit a non boiler stove and the heat from it would contribute to the heating of the house. The heat would spread through the house with the room doors open. (an ecofan would help distribute the heat)
The thermostatic radiator valves (TRV'S) as the stove heats the room(s) the TRV on the rad(s) will close down and reduce the oil consumption this way.

Yes the stove needs to be sized to heat the room and boiler sized for the rads/hot water output. I think I would still go with a boilerstove as oil is a crazy price per litre.

Stove Fan:)

Bravobabe · 20-02-2012 3:30pm

Hi All,
I need to install a fireplace or a stove (or both) in a property to be rented. Have already lost my shirt on this, so cost is a factor.
Currently the house has a block chimney with a clay flue. The chimney breast has been slabbed over. The house is a 2 storey TF construction. The room is about 5m x 3.5m. There are vents in the windows
I have made initial inquiries off 4 suppliers/installers
A) supply & install 7kw stove, stove to clay reducer, granite hearth & granite insert

supply & install granite/marble fireplace 7kw stove finished
C) supply & install 6.5 or 7.5kw stove, suggested buying used fireplace
D) supply & install 7kw stove with 2 sheets of heat resistant board or polished granite.
Prices range from €800 (A) to €1200 (B)
Not one of the installers mentioned the Flue liner nor the vents. I will install a plug in CO detector also.
Do we need a Flue line?
Do we need to install a wall vent? (as the window vents are closable)?
Will the granite heart and insert be sufficient to prevent any harm to chimney breast?

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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