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Multi-functional events centre (Budget 2014)

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  • 15-10-2013 3:29pm
    #1
    Bacchus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭


    Howlin has announced funding from the sale of the lottery licence for the development of a large scale multi-functional events centre in Cork. Is this something that was already in the works or is this new? Would be a great thing for Cork to have if done right.


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    #2
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Bacchus wrote: »
    Howlin has announced funding from the sale of the lottery licence for the development of a large scale multi-functional events centre in Cork. Is this something that was already in the works or is this new? Would be a great thing for Cork to have if done right.

    Process has been going on for a number of years - two rival bids Heineken/BAM and O'Callaghan Properties - which ever secures the City Council backing will go ahead.


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    #3
    Milly33
    Registered Users Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Milly33


    mmm why do they need another one. this is like the housing thing.. Ohh lets build a load of houses and then leave them sit idle.. Sure they had the Arc and they fecked that one up.. The beamish site has got permission so why do they need another site.. bunch of muppets


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    #4
    Bacchus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    Milly33 wrote: »
    mmm why do they need another one. this is like the housing thing.. Ohh lets build a load of houses and then leave them sit idle.. Sure they had the Arc and they fecked that one up.. The beamish site has got permission so why do they need another site.. bunch of muppets

    This is the only one I've heard of before. Hence why I ask, is this perhaps what they are referring to. It might not be another site at all. It could just be that they have allocated some money toward a process that was already going on (as evilivor suggests).

    Never heard of the Arc either so I'm not sure why you think this would be "another" multi-function events centre. I can't think of what the first one might be. A center such as this would be great for Cork (done right of course, I don't endorse a shoddy half assed attempt at an events centre).


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    #5
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Milly33 wrote: »
    mmm why do they need another one. this is like the housing thing.. Ohh lets build a load of houses and then leave them sit idle.. Sure they had the Arc and they fecked that one up.. The beamish site has got permission so why do they need another site.. bunch of muppets

    All three proposals have planning permission - the issue is public funds which will be made available to bridge the “market failure” gap - none will be built without them - Cork City Council will ultimately decide which to back and fund


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    #6
    BUNK1982
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    I think the O'Callaghan proposal is to build it next to the City Hall and the 3rd proposal is use a greenfield site in the docklands.


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    #7
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    I think the O'Callaghan proposal is to build it next to the City Hall and the 3rd proposal is use a greenfield site in the docklands.

    Not much in terms of greenfield sites in Docklands - I believe the Howard Holdings have planning on the old Ford distribution site near Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

    O'Callaghan's site is on Albert Quay between The Sextant and Idle Hour.

    Details and pics
    http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/05/07/corks-arena-dream-a-step-closer-to-reality/


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    #8
    Flesh Gorden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Flesh Gorden


    I was driving past as they were taking down the old giant vertical tanks from the old brewery last Tuesday, so maybe a decision has been made behind closed doors.

    Personally I'd prefer the one nearer the Elysian, so hoping for that one to get the nod.


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    #9
    Bacchus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    Flesh Gorden wrote: »
    I was driving past as they were taking down the old giant vertical tanks from the old brewery last Tuesday, so maybe a decision has been made behind closed doors.

    Personally I'd prefer the one nearer the Elysian, so hoping for that one to get the nod.

    The plan for the one down on Albert Quay sounds like the best to me (from that linked article above). The Beamish factory would be alright but it's so central, it'd be a nightmare to get to or park near. An Albert Quay location would be a bit more on the fringe of the city center. It'd be a nice addition to the area opposite the Clarion/Boardwalk would be a nice boost for some great little pubs in the area.

    The Live at the Marquee venue would be my least preferred. It's so far and the one road in/out makes it a pain to get to. If the weather is grand, it's a pleasant stroll, but I think it's just too far out and awkward to get to... they have the space for a proper car park though which is a plus.


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    #10
    sensormatic
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭sensormatic


    The plan for the one down on Albert Quay sounds like the best to me

    and me too that's a great point re parking and ease of access but backhanders will win at the end of the day so in town its going


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    #11
    BUNK1982
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    The greenfield site i had referred to must be the site of the Marquee tent.

    I'd go for the one on Albert Quay as well. If it's done properly that area would be a really nice part of town.


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    #12
    Bacchus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    I'd go for the one on Albert Quay as well. If it's done properly that area would be a really nice part of town.

    100% yes. The Clarion side already looks really well and on a sunny day is a great little hive of activity. City hall looks great too across the river. The Sextant is a great pub across from the Boardwalk too. Moving down towards Kennedy Quay then is a great area for food festivals or markets. There's a serious amount of potential for that whole area to become an entertainment hub in Cork (open air and indoor with the proposed centre). Would be a shame if they did not go that way.


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    #13
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Bacchus wrote: »
    100% yes. The Clarion side already looks really well and on a sunny day is a great little hive of activity. City hall looks great too across the river. The Sextant is a great pub across from the Boardwalk too. Moving down towards Kennedy Quay then is a great area for food festivals or markets. There's a serious amount of potential for that whole area to become an entertainment hub in Cork (open air and indoor with the proposed centre). Would be a shame if they did not go that way.

    It would make sense to locate it on Albert Quay as any infrastructure they put in in terms of parking or transport can also be utilised for matches in the Parc. Sense rarely prevails though.


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    #14
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    I'd be surprised if it's the Howard Holdings one (by Pairc Ui Chaoimh), given how Howard Holdings pretty much disappeared off the map a few years back. I'm surprised they're still doing.

    The Beamish one would be nice and central, but IMO it's just a massive blot on the landscape. It'll dwarf the Counting House and intrude/block the views of the Elizabethan fort and St. Finbarrs. (See here for one of the planning images).

    So, hopefully it'll be the Albert Quay option. Still nice and close to town, the boardwalk nearby (hopefully the south-side bank could be redeveloped too). Who knows, with some money going into that area, we might finally see the Custom House docks being sold and renovated for the public, that'd be something. The only downside about that location - it can be a traffic nightmare around rush-hours, for an evening gig it would be even worse!

    And HOPEFULLY it actually gets built this time. Anyone remember how Mahon Point was given planning permission on condition an event centre be included, with a several-million euro penalty? No event centre built, no penalty ever levied..


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    #15
    Bacchus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    who_me wrote: »
    And HOPEFULLY it actually gets built this time. Anyone remember how Mahon Point was given planning permission on condition an event centre be included, with a several-million euro penalty? No event centre built, no penalty ever levied..

    :eek: Christ! Well I'm glad that never happened. The infrastructure there can barely handle the morning and evening traffic as it is. One way in and out of a major shopping and industry hub, never mind adding an events centre into the mix.


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    #16
    BUNK1982
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    Bacchus wrote: »
    :eek: Christ! Well I'm glad that never happened. The infrastructure there can barely handle the morning and evening traffic as it is. One way in and out of a major shopping and industry hub, never mind adding an events centre into the mix.

    Yeah i work in Mahon Point and the traffic is terrible- shudder to think what it will be like at Christmas. Where else would you get permission to build a massive shopping centre and business park right next to what's meant to be a relief road?

    On the Albert Quay proposal, Howard Holdings are bust so whatever plans they had for the docklands are moot. However within that plan there was to be another bridge over the Lee as precursor to their development? If that went ahead again it would help traffic in the area.


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    #17
    Bacchus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    Yeah i work in Mahon Point and the traffic is terrible- shudder to think what it will be like at Christmas. Where else would you get permission to build a massive shopping centre and business park right next to what's meant to be a relief road?

    I know, dreading it :( 10 times worse for anyone depending on the bus to get home.


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    #18
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Its in the Echo today about this.The Heineken boss is looking forward to whatever decision is made by the Council.There is €16m available,€10m from Government and €6m from Council.They hope to start early in the new year.

    What should O'Callaghan or Heineken build whoever dont get it?.I would love to see a proper Motor Museum (all things Ford,Dunlops etc.) or an Aquarium like one of these.It would be a big tourist attraction.

    http://www.touropia.com/largest-aquariums-in-the-world/


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    #19
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    On the Albert Quay proposal, Howard Holdings are bust so whatever plans they had for the docklands are moot. However within that plan there was to be another bridge over the Lee as precursor to their development? If that went ahead again it would help traffic in the area.

    Just to clarify, the Howard Holdings one is/was by Pairc Ui Chaoimh, not at Albert Quay. It was part of a massive plan including 3 towers, two of which would be the tallest 2 buildings in the country. I think it was stated development relied on the bridges being built, one I think at the end of Centre Park Rd. and the other about half-way down at Water St. Given their finances though - and their dependance on apartment developments - I think that's long dead. There's a bigger problem with that development too, given that I've read Centre Park Rd. needs to be raised by 3m(!!!), I don't know if that's related to flooding or due to the various oils & chemicals which have seeped into the soil there.

    There were plans for another interesting development too, in the Marina Commercial Park, including a major "Ford Experience" centre. That too was dependant on bus links, the bridges and the Centre Park Rd. work.

    Given the Albert Quay proposal isn't dependant on apartments, I think that might stand to its advantage. Permission might be granted to one of the others, and the whole thing still fall apart due to the softness in the property market.

    p.s. I may have been mistaken about the 6m fine for Mahon Point not being paid. I've read the land was to revert back to the council AND a fine be paid, but in the end just the fine was paid. Not sure if that's accurate either. :)


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    #20
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    A group of 50 business leaders are backing a bid to have in at the Beamish Brewery Quarter site.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/text/ireland/cweysnaueyau/

    Their website is here.
    http://supportbreweryquarter.com/

    Some nice photos of what it would look like.


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    #21
    Bacchus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    It looks well alright but so would a similar centre up on Alberts Quay.

    IMO, the Beamish site would be a poor decision and another example of the lack of planning that goes in to many things in Ireland. The road infrastructure around there is tight enough as it is already and all traffic will be funnelling through the city center (it's all one way streets pointing to South Main st, heading south across the river to get to the Beamish factory). Not to mention the crowds. They'd actually have to close off South Main street to vehicles to facilitate the surge of pedestrians. This would cut off the main traffic links completely in the area as everything currently goes through that street to get from town to go south. Traffic would have to be diverted down towards UCC or back into the city center to get away from it. I just think it would be a nightmare from a crowd control point of view, Albert's Quay has much more space to allow the crowds and traffic to flow/disperse. Also, it's developing into a nice part of town and a center like this would really cap it off.


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    #22
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Bacchus wrote: »
    It looks well alright but so would a similar centre up on Alberts Quay.

    IMO, the Beamish site would be a poor decision and another example of the lack of planning that goes in to many things in Ireland. The road infrastructure around there is tight enough as it is already and all traffic will be funnelling through the city center (it's all one way streets pointing to South Main st, heading south across the river to get to the Beamish factory). Not to mention the crowds. They'd actually have to close off South Main street to vehicles to facilitate the surge of pedestrians. This would cut off the main traffic links completely in the area as everything currently goes through that street to get from town to go south. Traffic would have to be diverted down towards UCC or back into the city center to get away from it. I just think it would be a nightmare from a crowd control point of view, Albert's Quay has much more space to allow the crowds and traffic to flow/disperse. Also, it's developing into a nice part of town and a center like this would really cap it off.

    I actually think the opposite traffic wise.

    Putting the centre on the Albert Quay would cause traffic chaos in the area (which already handles heavy traffic).

    You would be essentially blocking the main link between the Lower Glanmire Road and the South Link Road. You would also be blocking access from the entire North of the City to Blackrock and Mahon via the City Centre. Traffic in the whole area would grind to a halt. Facilities such as this shouldn't be put beside major traffic arteries as can be seen with Mahon Point and the traffic problems it causes being so close to the SRR.

    South Main Street is currently one way and doesn't actually handle that much traffic in the grand scheme of things.


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    #23
    BUNK1982
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    I would have been all in favour of the Albert Quay proposal but driving through town on Saturday by the City Hall and i can only imagine the traffic chaos this would cause.

    In danger of going off thread - but traffic in Cork has the place completely f***ed - to the point where it takes away from a development like this which should be roundly celebrated. No point even considering public transport as an alternative.

    I guess if it does go into the old Beamish site then people will have no option but to abandon the car. It might also help regenerate a historic are and could provide a focal point for the city's nightlife.

    Maybe even bring back Sir Henry's!!


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    #24
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    I would have been all in favour of the Albert Quay proposal but driving through town on Saturday by the City Hall and i can only imagine the traffic chaos this would cause.

    The traffic in the area is awful enough already without adding another €5,000 people into the equation. A completely no no IMO.


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    #25
    Bacchus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    TBH, I've never really experienced heavy traffic in the Albert Quay area so can't really comment. Is there room to improve the road network there? The Beamish factory would be a nightmare imo and there's no way to improve the infrastructure there, there's simply not the space to do so. It's surrounded by small one way streets and not suitable for heavy pedestrian access. At least Albert Quay pushes the crowds a bit out of the city center (while still being in a vibrant area with pubs, restaurants etc.), there are two hotels a stones throw away (Clarion & Jury's Inn) with car parking and there is room to build - a lot of those buildings look vacant to me.

    If it winds up in the Beamish factory, I'm going to moan about it. Regardless where it goes, it will be great for the city. While it's up for debate though, I'd much rather the Albert Quay option.


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    #26
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    You ideally wouldn't build it in either location.

    Albert Quay might be better for those going to the concert etc but it will have a huge detrimental effect on everyone else in the area and those who need to drive through Cork City centre.

    The major difference between Albert Quay and the Beamish site is that South Main Street is not an important route taking traffic through the city centre. On the other hand, Penrose Warf to the Start of the South Link Road is probably the most important piece of road carrying traffic North-South in all of Cork City. It is certainly carries the most traffic across the Lee outside of the Lee Tunnel (which is a suburban dual carriageway).


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    #27
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    You ideally wouldn't build it in either location.

    Albert Quay might be better for those going to the concert etc but it will have a huge detrimental effect on everyone else in the area and those who need to drive through Cork City centre.

    The major difference between Albert Quay and the Beamish site is that South Main Street is not an important route taking traffic through the city centre. On the other hand, Penrose Warf to the Start of the South Link Road is probably the most important piece of road carrying traffic North-South in all of Cork City. It is certainly carries the most traffic across the Lee outside of the Lee Tunnel (which is a suburban dual carriageway).

    Where would you build it?

    Some people are forgetting here,its 6,000 capacity not 60,000.

    People will be walking to the venue from their homes around the city.People will be travelling in by train from East Cork and North Cork and Limerick.

    At most I would say there will be ~2,000 cars maximum with people going to the gigs.These people will hardly expect to drive up to the front door of the venue.Correct traffic management will keep traffic flowing.


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    #28
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Bacchus wrote: »
    TBH, I've never really experienced heavy traffic in the Albert Quay area so can't really comment. Is there room to improve the road network there? The Beamish factory would be a nightmare imo and there's no way to improve the infrastructure there, there's simply not the space to do so. It's surrounded by small one way streets and not suitable for heavy pedestrian access. At least Albert Quay pushes the crowds a bit out of the city center (while still being in a vibrant area with pubs, restaurants etc.), there are two hotels a stones throw away (Clarion & Jury's Inn) with car parking and there is room to build - a lot of those buildings look vacant to me.

    If it winds up in the Beamish factory, I'm going to moan about it. Regardless where it goes, it will be great for the city. While it's up for debate though, I'd much rather the Albert Quay option.

    If you look at the fourth photo of the link I gave above,you will see that there will be 3/4 different access routes to the venue.Everybody will not be walking down South Main Street.


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    #29
    calnand
    Registered Users Posts: 717 ✭✭✭calnand


    The brewery quarter offers so much more to Cork than O'Callaghans project. Having spent hours going through both projects information, the brewery quarter has cinemas artists studios a brewery tour which if anything like guinness's one would be of huge importance to tourism. The O'Callaghan development is solely a event centre with only one room with associated bars and services for that one venue. Also the brewery quarter will help redevelop that region of the city. It's become so derelict in that area of the city, with the empty buildings on grand parade and the sir Henry's plot. Building the event centre there would hopefully rejuvenate the area and lead to a better respect for what is the oldest part of our city. Also having two giant multinationals such as Heineken and BAM behind the project it will always be successful. What people are forgetting is that O'Callaghan has lied in the past about an event centre, part of the conditions for building mahon point was that he would build the event centre out there, which obviously hasn't happened. Anyway that's enough ranting for me.

    Go Brewery Quarter!


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    #30
    Lambofdave
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭Lambofdave


    Go easy parking


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    #31
    BUNK1982
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    calnand wrote: »
    The brewery quarter offers so much more to Cork than O'Callaghans project. Having spent hours going through both projects information, the brewery quarter has cinemas artists studios a brewery tour which if anything like guinness's one would be of huge importance to tourism. The O'Callaghan development is solely a event centre with only one room with associated bars and services for that one venue. Also the brewery quarter will help redevelop that region of the city. It's become so derelict in that area of the city, with the empty buildings on grand parade and the sir Henry's plot. Building the event centre there would hopefully rejuvenate the area and lead to a better respect for what is the oldest part of our city. Also having two giant multinationals such as Heineken and BAM behind the project it will always be successful. What people are forgetting is that O'Callaghan has lied in the past about an event centre, part of the conditions for building mahon point was that he would build the event centre out there, which obviously hasn't happened. Anyway that's enough ranting for me.

    Go Brewery Quarter!

    Have to agree with you there - the area behind the Grand Parade/ bottom of Barrack Street probably has more overall potential than the Albert Quay area, especially in terms of tourism, culture, nightlife and entertainment.

    With it being so inaccessible to traffic already people will have no option but to walk to the venue so that will be a massive boost to footfall int he area.

    On O'Callaghan and his record - the last thing we need is another Mahon Point. It might be a golden goose for him but it's completely warped the layout of the city.


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