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Iarnród Éireann charging adult fare on school trip

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13

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    #62
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    superscouse wrote:

    This story is so mad, I wonder if its a wind up. Surely there is no way 60+ kids/students/people would just turn up and pay on a trip.

    Organisation here seems to no existant.

    Possibly not 60, but my school often didn't even consider pre-booking for groups of 30 or so during TY, young scientist and the like.


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    #63
    TheChrisD
    Registered Users Posts: 4,510 ✭✭✭TheChrisD


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Birth certificate, Letter from School, passport[..]? E111 card, PPS card there are lots of ways to prove your age.

    In all seriousness though, who actually carries those kinds of things with them everywhere?
    image.png




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    #64
    saa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    foggy_lad wrote: »

    You could get a Garda age card for a small fee (€5 afaik) which can be used for any other situation where photo id or proof of age is required.

    -Can't apply until you are 18, which I have never understood
    and its €10, also I think it should be a National Identity card instead so you can travel to certain countries without a passport, which would ease the pressure on the passport office and age card demand.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    You could bring a birth certificate with you but be prepared to prove you are the person named on it.

    -I think I would have lost a birthcert or got it soaked when I was 16 :rolleyes:
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    You could get the Dublin Bus schoolchild id card which is free afaik and the application form is Here.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    You can also get a form from your school office stating that you are a student there and it will most likely have your date of birth on it which may be enough.

    -They may need a photo.

    But anyway for those who were 15 I hope there is a possibility to get a refund, I don't believe it's Irish rails fault, and from my experience teaching you cannot leave anything up to all students there is always a number of pupils who don't get something sorted or plan ahead
    All of those student should of had a card already but there doesn't seem to be a lot of options.. this school child dublin bus card sounds alright if it has a photo on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Irish rail employee wouldn't take it for not being a specified form of ID :pac:
    Typical Ireland, I was once in tesco and a 22 year old American exchange student couldnt buy two cans because they didn't have a garda ID... but she had photo ID from the irish and American government but if it comes from the gards or the passport office its legit.


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    #65
    nimrod86
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭nimrod86


    saa wrote: »
    But anyway for those who were 15 I hope there is a possibility to get a refund, I don't believe it's Irish rails fault, and from my experience teaching you cannot leave anything up to all students there is always a number of pupils who don't get something sorted or plan ahead
    All of those student should of had a card already but there doesn't seem to be a lot of options.. this school child dublin bus card sounds alright if it has a photo on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Irish rail employee wouldn't take it for not being a specified form of ID :pac:
    Typical Ireland, I was once in tesco and a 22 year old American exchange student couldnt buy two cans because they didn't have a garda ID... but she had photo ID from the irish and American government but if it comes from the gards or the passport office its legit.

    I have requested a refund and an apology for my whole class, also they don't specify an ID or say what they deem suitable. And this is in no part my schools fault, we all had the right dart fare for our age, and we have never prebooked before, if 60 people get on a train do they need to prebook? no... so why should we?


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    #66
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    nimrod86 wrote: »
    Just spoke to a few people on facebook, seems a few people were given the child rate, and ID wise, one guy happened to have his EU health card in his pocket for god knows what reason and I think after a bit of banter between to staff they accpeted it.

    Excellent, so they were flexible with regards to what ID they accepted. That seems fair.

    nimrod86 wrote: »
    We did read up, I said this many times!!! The issue is the lack of an ID system in this country!

    But if you carry an EU health card or similar, you'll be grand.
    nimrod86 wrote: »
    We were on a school trip and we were with teachers. They tried to vouch and the guy replied "i can see it in them they are all 16". We werent in uniform but we have used the dart for trips before without any problem. As someone above said, what kind of id do they expect 15 year olds to have. If they want us to have.id they should have an id scheme we can apply to.

    But if you're carrying some form of official ID, it seems they'll accept it.
    nimrod86 wrote: »
    No we were there early enough, but because of arguing a lot of us didn't get tickets until about a minute before the train left. Some of the class and a teacher were already on the train and they were still holding us up. I've just sent a complaint to Irish Rail anyway and am about to send one to The ministers for the environment, transport and education about there being no way for me to prove my age

    Unless you're carrying something like an EU Health Card.
    nimrod86 wrote: »
    But what ID can they expect me to carry? I don't drive, pay bills, many classmates don't have passports, I certainly am not bringing either my passport or even a scan of it with me on the dart or into town. That's my personal information which I don't want to fall into the wrong hands

    Maybe something like an EU Health Card.
    nimrod86 wrote: »
    That's basically exactly it, he was rude and incompetent as far as I'm concerned.

    But it does raise the issue of a National ID for children and adults

    It would definitely remove the requirement for them to be flexible with regard to the types of ID they accept. I mean, without it they'll probably have to start accepting all sorts of random documentation (like an EU Health Card).


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    #67
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    nimrod86 wrote: »
    Also, I said this in my e-mail to the ministers, why are a semi-state body allowed to charge a 16 year old an adult rate when the government and state still sees them a a child?

    Because for many things, over 16 year olds are considered adults. They can leave school, work full time, sign off on their own medical forms, etc.
    loobylou wrote: »
    My children use/used the DART from Greystones to get to school. Got a reduced rate up to age 16, paid full rate for 2 years and then get a reduced rate again because they're in college.
    The system is full of anomalies.

    Just get a student travel card when you turn 16?


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    #68
    nimrod86
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭nimrod86


    @ -Chris-: It was just by chance he had it with him, and mine is kept at home in a safe for if it's needed, I don't have any form of ID like most 15 year olds.


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    #69
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    nimrod86 wrote: »
    Iarnrod eireann charged me and 60 other TY students adult fare today on a school trip from greystones to Tara street because we didn't have id. Can they really expect 15 year olds to carry Id to prove they aren't 16. We all arrived expecting to pay €3.60 and were charged €8.20 meaning many people didnt have lunch money.

    So, 60 of you turned up, all expecting to pay child fare...
    nimrod86 wrote: »
    Yeah, a fair few were, but there was at least 20-25 of us who aren't. I'm not until next April, another guy I know isn't until June

    But only 20-25 of you (less than half) qualify for child fare...
    nimrod86 wrote: »
    Just spoke to a few people on facebook, seems a few people were given the child rate, and ID wise, one guy happened to have his EU health card in his pocket for god knows what reason and I think after a bit of banter between to staff they accpeted it.

    and at least one (possibly more) paid child fare because they had ID with them...


    But you
    nimrod86 wrote: »
    have requested a refund and an apology for my whole class

    even though less than half the class was inconvenienced.
    nimrod86 wrote: »
    And this is in no part my schools fault, we all had the right dart fare for our age

    Except for the guys over 16 who (according to your first post) expected to pay child fare.


    To be honest, at this stage I think you're being very economical with the truth, and with each answer you give I feel you're less entitled to a refund.

    Also, it would seem that some of your party tried to pay child fare even though they're over 16. In this case I don't think it's unfair for the ticket seller to decide on a policy of "guilty until proven innocent" as there were obviously people in your party who were prepared to try and take advantage of his trust.


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    #70
    nimrod86
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭nimrod86


    not everyone expected to pay child fare, I know I can't say some people may or may not have lied as I don't know everyones date of birth, but alot of people who were over 16 knew that they were an adult fare and payed without problem. I'm simply saying that many people were under 16 and shouldn't have had to pay the adult fare


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    #71
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    nimrod86 wrote: »
    not everyone expected to pay child fare, I know I can't say some people may or may not have lied as I don't know everyones date of birth, but alot of people who were over 16 knew that they were an adult fare and payed without problem. I'm simply saying that many people were under 16 and shouldn't have had to pay the adult fare
    but the conditions of carriage are very clear
    14.3 Where there is a doubt regarding the age qualification, it will be the
    responsibility of the passenger to produce satisfactory evidence of age to
    secure the reduced fare.
    What that evidence is or how it is produced is also the passengers responsibility. as has been pointed out there are several forms of id/proof of age which should be acceptable.


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    #72
    nimrod86
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭nimrod86


    Yes, but some are either, unobtainable at our age, not practical to carry around, or just un necessary if you dont use services like the bus often (for the bus card). If Dublin Bus can do a card scheme, why can't they?


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    #73
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    I wonder if they would have accepted a Dublin Bus card as valid ID...


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    #74
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    nimrod86 wrote: »
    Yes, but some are either, unobtainable at our age, not practical to carry around, or just un necessary if you dont use services like the bus often (for the bus card). If Dublin Bus can do a card scheme, why can't they?
    The Dublin Bus ID is probably(but not definitely) accepted by irish rail, there are several other ways of doing it but when you moan and complain about carrying a form of id like a small credit card sized E111 card one is left wondering if a large laminated card around the students neck with name address and name of school and teacher would not be more appropriate.

    Obviously a proof of age is very necessary even if you only use the services once as you could be asked on that occasion.


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    #75
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,475 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    nimrod86 wrote: »
    I've just sent a complaint to Irish Rail anyway and am about to send one to The ministers for the environment, transport and education about there being no way for me to prove my age

    stupid complaint, there are ways to prove your age as people have already told you. Aside from a passport you can get travel cards for bus and rail that do the same...
    Yes, but some are either, unobtainable at our age, not practical to carry around, or just un necessary if you dont use services like the bus often (for the bus card). If Dublin Bus can do a card scheme, why can't they?

    That's only in your opinion, what impractical about carrying your passport, you'll be doing it all the time in a few years going out anywhere drinking...


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    #76
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    wasting your time, you should have looked into the ins and outs of it before travelling


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    #77
    TheChrisD
    Registered Users Posts: 4,510 ✭✭✭TheChrisD


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    That's only in your opinion, what impractical about carrying your passport, you'll be doing it all the time in a few years going out anywhere drinking...

    The fact that it's such a valuable document, and if you lose it you could face bigger problems.

    I actually lost my passport on a bus once simply because it fell out of my pocket (at the time I was bringing it for ID because I hadn't yet gotten my DSP Free Travel ID card - but that's another story). I was very lucky and gracious that the driver found it while doing a sweep of the bus and mailed it back to me via the NOK address in it.
    image.png




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    #78
    loobylou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭loobylou


    XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »



    Just get a student travel card when you turn 16?

    Nope, you need to be in a third level college.


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    #79
    holidaygirl
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭holidaygirl


    loobylou wrote: »
    Nope, you need to be in a third level college.

    No You can get one
    All full time second and third level students are entitled to apply for a Student Travelcard. This includes trainee Chartered Accountants, trainee Solicitors registered with the Law Society, full time FAS Students and full time PLC students

    Full text http://www.studenttravelcard.ie/GetTheCard/GetTheCard.aspx


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    #80
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    loobylou wrote: »
    Nope, you need to be in a third level college.

    Nope, you don't. I got one when I was in 5th and 6th year.


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    #81
    loobylou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭loobylou


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Excellent, so they were flexible with regards to what ID they accepted. That seems fair.




    But if you carry an EU health card or similar, you'll be grand.



    But if you're carrying some form of official ID, it seems they'll accept it.



    Unless you're carrying something like an EU Health Card.



    Maybe something like an EU Health Card.



    It would definitely remove the requirement for them to be flexible with regard to the types of ID they accept. I mean, without it they'll probably have to start accepting all sorts of random documentation (like an EU Health Card).
    Rang them today to ask what form of ID they would accept. The (very polite and helpful) lady at IE said only either a birth cert or (copy of) passport would be acceptable.


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    #82
    loobylou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭loobylou


    holidaygirl wrote: »
    No You can get one



    Full text http://www.studenttravelcard.ie/GetTheCard/GetTheCard.aspx

    They're all in bed now, bless em, but I'll hold a tribunal in the morning. Just know I pay out more for their train tickets to go to secondary school than I do for them to go to college which is a lot further.
    That said, one buys a weekly ticket(school), the others get a monthly(college).


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    #83
    kingshankly
    Registered Users Posts: 7,543 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    in fairness common sense should have prevailed when the clerk heard it was a school trip and should have give them student tickets


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    #84
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    loobylou wrote: »
    Rang them today to ask what form of ID they would accept. The (very polite and helpful) lady at IE said only either a birth cert or (copy of) passport would be acceptable.

    A birth cert which inherently doesn't have a photo? Useful ID, that...


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    #85
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    kingshankly wrote: »
    in fairness common sense should have prevailed when the clerk heard it was a school trip and should have give them student tickets

    Iarnrod eireann are fairly strict when it comes to student tickets. You have to have a travelcard to get one


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    #86
    nimrod86
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭nimrod86


    MYOB wrote: »
    A birth cert which inherently doesn't have a photo? Useful ID, that...

    That's my point, there is no ID that may be deemed suitable which you are OBLIGED to have!


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    #87
    kingshankly
    Registered Users Posts: 7,543 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »
    Iarnrod eireann are fairly strict when it comes to student tickets. You have to have a travelcard to get one

    I know I work for them but this was pedantic to say the least


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    #88
    loobylou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭loobylou


    XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »
    Iarnrod eireann are fairly strict when it comes to student tickets. You have to have a travelcard to get one

    This is the point exactly. They were not looking for student tickets.


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    #89
    nimrod86
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭nimrod86


    loobylou wrote: »
    This is the point exactly. They were not looking for student tickets.

    Yeap, all we wanted was a child return from greystones to tara street for under those eligable for it and an adult return for those who weren't.

    Also, aren't student tickets only weekly or monthly?


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    #90
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    loobylou wrote: »
    This is the point exactly. They were not looking for student tickets.

    I was replying to kingshankley's point that the guy couldn't sell them all student tickets.

    Surely that would have caused bigger problems if they were then caught by an inspector. Has happened to me


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    #91
    Sundy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭Sundy


    Some of the people on this thread make me cringe.. Mainly this

    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    That's only in your opinion, what impractical about carrying your passport, you'll be doing it all the time in a few years going out anywhere drinking...

    Its a fifteen year old child wanting to get a child fare to go on a train, carrying your passport is not practical or sensible. Hey its not even practical bringing it on a night out.
    Imagine all the children of Ireland walking around with their passports in their pocket.. are you really think that is practical? Think about it.


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