Iarnród Éireann charging adult fare on school trip

nimrod86 · 22-11-2011 10:26am #1

Iarnrod eireann charged me and 60 other TY students adult fare today on a school trip from greystones to Tara street because we didn't have id. Can they really expect 15 year olds to carry Id to prove they aren't 16. We all arrived expecting to pay €3.60 and were charged €8.20 meaning many people didnt have lunch money. Worst of all the guy Standing beside the ticket man started joking about us all drinking in temple bar and saying that's why were paying full price. Anyone know where I go to get a refund and letter of apologies from this fail of a company?

Snakeblood · 22-11-2011 10:28am

nimrod86 wrote: »

Iarnrod eireann charged me and 60 other TY students adult fare today on a school trip from greystones to Tara street because we didn't have id. Can they really expect 15 year olds to carry Id to prove they aren't 16. We all arrived expecting to pay €3.60 and were charged €8.20 meaning many people didnt have lunch money. Worst of all the guy Standing beside the ticket man started joking about us all drinking in temple bar and saying that's why were paying full price. Anyone know where I go to get a refund and letter of apologies from this fail of a company?

You should have tried to buy booze off them.

KerranJast · 22-11-2011 10:32am

You should have had ID. Pretty simple.

Absurdum · 22-11-2011 10:34am

nimrod86 wrote: »

Anyone know where I go to get a refund and letter of apologies from this fail of a company?

no idea bro, definitely not their website as a starting point anyways

ScouseMouse · 22-11-2011 10:35am

Did you not pre-book or at least notify them you were coming?

With a school party of that size you will get a group discount. Were you in any kind of uniform? Could you show you were entitled to school rate?

Who organised that?

If you complain now, you may get some sort of a refund but that is the worst kind of organisation I have ever heard of.

biko · 22-11-2011 10:37am

AH->Commuting

loobylou · 22-11-2011 11:34am

KerranJast wrote: »

You should have had ID. Pretty simple.

So you now need a passport to go to Dublin? Don't know what other type of ID would be acceptable, they're too young to have a drivers license or Garda ID.

OP, probably not much you can do about it, the staff at Greystones station are a law unto themselves.
Hope you get some satisfaction though.

ScouseMouse · 22-11-2011 11:41am

loobylou wrote: »

So you now need a passport to go to Dublin? Don't know what other type of ID would be acceptable, they're too young to have a drivers license or Garda ID.

No, you dont need a passport to go to dublin, but to claim a ticket discount, you do have to show you are entitled to it.

Was it 60 students in uniform with a teacher?

Or was it 60 people turning up saying "I am a child/student I am entitled to a discount!"

So OP, what exactly did you do ?

AlekSmart · 22-11-2011 11:47am

nimrod86 wrote: »

Iarnrod eireann charged me and 60 other TY students adult fare today on a school trip from greystones to Tara street because we didn't have id. Can they really expect 15 year olds to carry Id to prove they aren't 16. We all arrived expecting to pay €3.60 and were charged €8.20 meaning many people didnt have lunch money. Worst of all the guy Standing beside the ticket man started joking about us all drinking in temple bar and saying that's why were paying full price. Anyone know where I go to get a refund and letter of apologies from this fail of a company?

In respect of the allegation of IE's failure then perhaps a brief perusal of the NTA's website may help.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/rail_rights.html

However it's a generally held point regarding School Child Fares that they are only available to cover mainstream classes between set times and do NOT cover extra-curricular activites such as Sports or Study Time.

A Schoolchild or Child fare is a concession on the part of the operator and therefore it may impose whatever conditions it feels are necessary,proof of age is one quite logical one I feel.

The Dublin Bus approach is outlined here...

Children's Fares
One child under 3 years of age is carried free if accompanied by and in the charge of a fare paying passenger, provided that the child does not occupy a seat to the exclusion of another passenger. Children under 16 years of age are charged fares in accordance with the child or school child fare scale. An official statement confirming a child's age may be obtained at Dublin Bus, 59 Upper O'Connell Street, on production of the appropriate birth certificate.

To provide maximum accommodation for passengers, children are requested, where possible, to sit three to a double seat. In the event of a dispute over entitlement to child fares, passengers will be asked to produce evidence of their age. The decision of the Dublin Bus official will apply to these passengers. Appeals against such decisions may be made to our Head Office at %9 Upper O'Connell Street, (01) 8734222.

* Schoolchild Cash Fares apply only during normal school terms, for travel between home and school Monday to Friday up to 17:00hrs and on Saturday up to 13:30hrs

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Fares/

Each passenger shall produce evidence of his eligibility for travel at concessionary rates where he claims to be so entitled.

I would see this little tableau as having provided a belated introduction to the wider world of Public Transport full stop.

I'd go so far as to suggest that it may well be the most memorable of the groups TY adventures in some ways and therefore a valuable learning experience.

I do find it slightly worrying that out of a group of 61,NONE of them had any evidence of age ?

A small bit of forward planning and a phone call on the part of the Trip organizer could have resulted in a much smoother,faster and cheaper journey for the group.

As for the Smart Alekry of the IE Staff Member,that was totally out of order,but should be treated as a seperate issue for reportage purposes !

Dodge · 22-11-2011 12:08pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

I do find it slightly worrying that out of a group of 61,NONE of them had any evidence of age ?

In fairness, what age ID would a 15 year old have apart from a passport, and they wouldn't be bringing that with them.

superscouse has it spot on about the organisation of the trip. 60+ kids and no supervision or pre-planning?

ScouseMouse · 22-11-2011 12:19pm

Dodge wrote: »

AlekSmart wrote: »

I do find it slightly worrying that out of a group of 61,NONE of them had any evidence of age ?[/UOTE]

In fairness, what age ID would a 15 year old have apart from a passport, and they wouldn't be bringing that with them.

superscouse has it spot on about the organisation of the trip. 60+ kids and no supervision or pre-planning?

This story is so mad, I wonder if its a wind up. Surely there is no way 60+ kids/students/people would just turn up and pay on a trip.

Organisation here seems to no existant.

loobylou · 22-11-2011 1:03pm

What proof of age could they provide?
Even though it was a school trip they were not attempting to get a schoolchild fare (for which there is an IE identity scheme in place), just an ordinary child fare.
Doubtless some of them are over 16, but surely it is up to IE to find and penalise fare evaders, not to assume that everyone is one and treat them accordingly.
Also I don't think it unusual for a group of TY students to travel unaccompanied,they hardly need a teacher as a babysitter.

ScouseMouse · 22-11-2011 1:20pm

loobylou wrote: »

What proof of age could they provide?
Even though it was a school trip they were not attempting to get a schoolchild fare (for which there is an IE identity scheme in place), just an ordinary child fare.
Doubtless some of them are over 16, but surely it is up to IE to find and penalise fare evaders, not to assume that everyone is one and treat them accordingly.
Also I don't think it unusual for a group of TY students to travel unaccompanied,they hardly need a teacher as a babysitter.

To claim a discount, surely you need to be able to show entitlement.

If any sane person was organising a trip like this, they would contact IE and let them know they were coming. IE would say grand, out group/child rate is XYZ.

That would have been enough. 60+ people cannot just turn up somewhere and demand a concession. This sounds wackier and wackier the more I think of it.

loobylou · 22-11-2011 1:24pm

This is the DART, they don't do bookings.

Rasmus · 22-11-2011 1:30pm

Was your teacher not able to vouch for you OP? And excuse my ignorance, but what are TY students?

loobylou · 22-11-2011 1:31pm

Rasmus wrote: »

And excuse my ignorance, but what are TY students?

Transition year.

ScouseMouse · 22-11-2011 1:48pm

loobylou wrote: »

This is the DART, they don't do bookings.

Yes they do.

Third paragraph down.

ScouseMouse · 22-11-2011 1:53pm

I blame the school on this. What ejit organised it?

nimrod86 · 22-11-2011 4:24pm

We were on a school trip and we were with teachers. They tried to vouch and the guy replied "i can see it in them they are all 16". We werent in uniform but we have used the dart for trips before without any problem. As someone above said, what kind of id do they expect 15 year olds to have. If they want us to have.id they should have an id scheme we can apply to.

nimrod86 · 22-11-2011 4:25pm

We were on a school trip and we were with teachers. They tried to vouch and the guy replied "i can see it in them they are all 16". We werent in uniform but we have used the dart for trips before without any problem. As someone above said, what kind of id do they expect 15 year olds to have. If they want us to have.id they should have an id scheme we can apply to.

nimrod86 · 22-11-2011 4:25pm

We were on a school trip and we were with teachers. They tried to vouch and the guy replied "i can see it in them they are all 16". We werent in uniform but we have used the dart for trips before without any problem. As someone above said, what kind of id do they expect 15 year olds to have. If they want us to have.id they should have an id scheme we can apply to.

schemingbohemia · 22-11-2011 4:34pm

Heard you the first time!;)

Tell your teacher - "Fail to prepare, prepare to Fail" - that's what they did, not organised enough. In fairness the school should have organised a group deal for you and saved you all a lot of money, instead of costing you money.

foggy_lad · 22-11-2011 4:45pm

To be fair to Irish Rail staff they are entitled to request proof of age where there is any question of a childs age and it is up to the child and their parent/guardian/teacher to provide this proof of age.

Also most TY students would be 16 and those who are not yet 16 should know to have proof of age when using the bus or dart especially when living so near to Dublin.

I remember being asked for proof of age for almost every journey until the conductors got to know us on the 66 bus 25 years ago so this is nothing new!(going ustairs to smoke way back then didn't help getting the reduced fare:D)

ScouseMouse · 22-11-2011 4:52pm

A simple call or fax from the school would have sorted you all out (and anyone else on the trip).

Faced with a large party like that, even fecking Ryanair will give you a discount !

Badly organised, nothing else.

n97 mini · 22-11-2011 4:53pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

However it's a generally held point regarding School Child Fares that they are only available to cover mainstream classes between set times and do NOT cover extra-curricular activites such as Sports or Study Time.

15 year olds are still entitled to under 16 fares.

foggy_lad · 22-11-2011 5:16pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

However it's a generally held point regarding School Child Fares that they are only available to cover mainstream classes between set times and do NOT cover extra-curricular activites such as Sports or Study Time.

A Schoolchild or Child fare is a concession on the part of the operator and therefore it may impose whatever conditions it feels are necessary,proof of age is one quite logical one I feel.

Just to make one thing very clear, there is a Child fare which a child can avail of for any journey except some special trains, there are also very different scholar/schoolchild tickets which can only be used going between school and home and cant generally be used outside school hours.

https://www.irishrail.ie/seat_reservation/ConditionsOfTravel.pdf

31. Children (other than school children)
31.1 Except as may be specified in the publications and notices of, and applicable
to Iarnród Éireann, children “under three years” of age may travel free of
charge when accompanied by an adult passenger holding a valid ticket for the
journey provided such children do not occupy seats that are required for farepaying
passengers; children from their third to their sixteenth birthday are
conveyed at a reduced fare.

32. Children (travelling to and from school only)
32.1 School children’s reduced fares apply to children between their third and
sixteenth birthday travelling between home and school in connection with
normal classes up to17:00 hours, Monday to Friday.
32.2 School children’ reduced fares do not apply to travelling to or from football
matches, plays, films or other extra curricular activities. In such cases,
ordinary children’s fares are applicable.
32.3 School children’s reduced fares are available only during normal school terms
and do not apply to children attending classes outside normal school terms

foggy_lad · 22-11-2011 5:19pm

n97 mini wrote: »

15 year olds are still entitled to under 16 fares.

But where there is doubt about their age it is up to them to prove they are under 16

nimrod86 · 22-11-2011 5:30pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Heard you the first time!;)

Sorry, I was using my mobile and it went all weird!

ConTheCat · 22-11-2011 5:34pm

Ty students are mainly 16 though aren't they? I know I was 16 and one of the youngest!

nimrod86 · 22-11-2011 5:36pm

ConTheCat wrote: »

Ty students are mainly 16 though aren't they? I know I was 16 and one of the youngest!

Yeah, a fair few were, but there was at least 20-25 of us who aren't. I'm not until next April, another guy I know isn't until June

foggy_lad · 22-11-2011 5:46pm

nimrod86 wrote: »

Yeah, a fair few were, but there was at least 20-25 of us who aren't. I'm not until next April, another guy I know isn't until June

Do you get the Dart or Bus regularly? Do you use the Dart for school? have you never been asked for proof of your age on the Dart or bus before? You really should know to have proof of age to avail of child/schoolchild/scholar fares.

Iarnród Éireann charging adult fare on school trip

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