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Is Irish a dead language?

13567…79

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  • #102
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,640 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Haven't read any of the thread but as someone who hated the langauage as a kid and has no interest in learning it, I'd say it's in a much stronger position now that it was ten/twenty years ago.

    Interestingly, I was in a queue to use an ATM here in Berlin a few days ago and listening to two defintiely Dublin girls, early 20s, talking behind me. Then suddenly, they switched to Irish for a few minutes and later back to English.

    So much for the idea of using the language for privacy when you're abroad! (OK, I didn't know what they were talking about, but I could have done!)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #103
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    So perhaps you can explain the recent explosion of the language in the north, where it has limited state support and isn't a mandatory subject? If anything, it is getting stronger there every year. More and more gaelscoileanna are opening - but these things DO require support, like anything else.

    Explosion!! I've yet to see this!!:eek: If you think there will ever be a large community of irish speakers here well your dreaming we are too far into the english language here.


  • #104
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    That you have to learn Welsh until the age of 15.

    1990, I believe.


  • #105
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Haven't read any of the thread but as someone who hated the langauage as a kid and has no interest in learning it, I'd say it's in a much stronger position now that it was ten/twenty years ago.

    Interestingly, I was in a queue to use an ATM here in Berlin a few days ago and listening to two defintiely Dublin girls, early 20s, talking behind me. Then suddenly, they switched to Irish for a few minutes and later back to English.

    So much for the idea of using the language for privacy when you're abroad! (OK, I didn't know what they were talking about, but I could have done!)

    They were probably cursing.


  • #106
    eamo12
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭eamo12


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Care to elaborate on you ramblings?

    Forced indoctrination - look at how this language is forced down our throats from 4 years old.

    Irish Taliban - Look at your sig.


  • #107
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    1990, I believe.

    Well they were 15 before that.


  • #108
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    eamo12 wrote: »
    Forced indoctrination - look at how this language is forced down our throats from 4 years old.

    Irish Taliban - Look at your sig.
    I wont rise to that. Sorry :)


  • #109
    Rick Deckard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Rick Deckard


    eamo12 wrote: »
    Hopefully it will die out soon despite the wailings and forced indoctrination by the gaelic taliban.

    not likely, but we can hope with a revenue shortage, surplus spending like this will be the first to go.. spending on grants/teaching an entire population a language few people learn/speak..

    not meaning to sound racist but there's more foreign nationals in the country than irish first languageers.. should i dust off my nigerian dictionary for my son?


  • #110
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    It requires state funding to ensure that it is accessible to the public. Could some of the funding be spent more wisely? Probably! But do I feel that it doesn't require funding? Absolutely not.

    I'm not sure what happy little medium you want us to come to. I'm a supporter of the language, and have run a group out of my own free time, without any state support for 3 years. You are a person who would not be moved either way if the language was extinct. I don't think there is much common ground for us to meet on - would you not agree?
    I suppose we aren't going to find common ground on this one.


  • #111
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    Explosion!! I've yet to see this!!:eek:

    That's understandable, living in Coleraine - and when you probably don't hang around with people from a community which might support the language. Most of my friends in the north are fluent Irish speakers.

    I wish we had a centre like Culturlann in Waterford. I can only assume you've never been there. One was recently opened in Derry also. Infact, prior to partition - there was a strong Gaeltacht in Derry - which still exists to this very day.


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  • #112
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,640 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    owenc wrote: »
    They were probably cursing.

    In irish? Is that possible?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #113
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    That's understandable, living in Coleraine - and when you probably don't hang around with people from a community which might support the language. Most of my friends in the north are fluent Irish speakers.

    I wish we had a centre like Culturlann in Waterford. I can only assume you've never been there. One was recently opened in Derry also. Infact, prior to partition - there was a strong Gaeltacht in Derry - which still exists to this very day.

    I goto derry every sunday and never hear anyone speaking irish. Actually my next door neighbour can say a few words in irish but he doesn't speak it, (they make them learn it in the catholic schools)


  • #114
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    I goto derry every sunday and never hear anyone speaking irish. Actually my next door neighbour can say a few words in irish but he doesn't speak it, (they make them learn it in the catholic schools)
    Just because you don't see it doesn't mean its not there.


  • #115
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    I goto derry every sunday and never hear anyone speaking irish. Actually my next door neighbour can say a few words in irish but he doesn't speak it, (they make them learn it in the catholic schools)

    http://www.ancarn.org/

    Just because you never hear anyone speak Irish, doesn't mean that they don't. Infact, the last time I was in Derry, I ate in a small Cáfe that operated through the Irish language (Cafe Fáilte I believe it was called) - They had sample phrases written on the walls. We don't have anything like that in Waterford.


  • #116
    Rick Deckard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Rick Deckard


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Just because you don't see it doesn't mean its not there.

    what it does mean is it's not as prevalent as you'd like to think..


  • #117
    Rick Deckard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Rick Deckard


    dlofnep wrote: »
    http://www.ancarn.org/

    Just because you never hear anyone speak Irish, doesn't mean that they don't. Infact, the last time I was in Derry, I ate in a small Cáfe that operated through the Irish language (Cafe Fáilte I believe it was called) - They had sample phrases written on the walls. We don't have anything like that in Waterford.

    NO business would alienate 97% of the population by not speaking the first language of the country they operate in.


  • #118
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    LOL weres that?

    I'm not sure what's humourous? It's in Derry, just outside Maghera.

    wait, the cafe or the gaeltacht? Which were you asking about?


  • #119
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    peatcass wrote: »
    NO business would alienate 97% of the population by not speaking the first language of the country they operate in.
    Actually it is a very good unique selling point. I would go to it just for that reason....

    That is if I lived in Derry...


  • #120
    Rick Deckard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Rick Deckard


    can see this going further and further off topic, slan a cairde


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  • #121
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I don't answer stupid questions. This will be no different.



    I'm not interested if you think it's on life support or not. There are over 100,000 people who use the language outside of schools or work on a weekly basis. On that basis alone, it is not dead.

    Of course it is supported by the Government. It is an official language. All official languages around the world are supported by their respective Governments - many countries having more than 3 languages. You're not bringing anything new to the debate.

    the median number of speakers of all languages in the world is something like 7,500 ;)


  • #122
    Winty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Winty


    peatcass wrote: »
    can see this going further and further off topic, slan a cairde

    Ya this thread is close to dead

    I love the Irish Language and I hope the next Government will think of new and interesting ways to protect our heritage. The way our schools teach is a one way road to obliviation.


  • #123
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    Maghera no wonder.:rolleyes: You said derry i thought you were talking about derry, no one usually refers to it like that they usually say the place not just derry. What the hell were you doing in maghera anyway?

    The Café is in Derry City.

    The Derry Gaeltacht is just outside Maghera. I haven't been there personally, but even if I was - who are you to question what I would be doing there?


  • #124
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The Café is in Derry City.

    The Derry Gaeltacht is just outside Maghera. I haven't been there personally, but even if I was - who are you to question what I would be doing there?

    LOL so the cafe is in derry og!:eek: Where at? Because its a wee poky village in the middle of nowhere.


  • #125
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    LOL so the cafe is in derry og!:eek: Where at? Because its a wee poky village in the middle of nowhere.

    I don't know the name of the street off the top of my head. It was about a year and a half back.


  • #126
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I don't know the name of the street off the top of my head. It was about a year and a half back.

    I'll try and copy and paste it into google maps.


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  • #127
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    peatcass wrote: »
    not likely, but we can hope with a revenue shortage, surplus spending like this will be the first to go.. spending on grants/teaching an entire population a language few people learn/speak..

    not meaning to sound racist but there's more foreign nationals in the country than irish first languageers.. should i dust off my nigerian dictionary for my son?

    which one is that? there's over 500 different languages in nigeria :rolleyes:


  • #128
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    owenc wrote: »
    I'll try and copy and paste it into google maps.

    Naw sorry i canny find it, it dosen't matter anyway.


  • #129
    Rick Deckard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Rick Deckard


    aDeener wrote: »
    which one is that? there's over 500 different languages in nigeria :rolleyes:

    i wonder if thery're all state funded?


  • #130
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    I'll try and copy and paste it into google maps.

    There is also the Culturlann Irish language centre.

    http://www.culturlann-doire.ie/

    To be honest Owen, I know you're not into Irish culture, or the Irish language - but you do have some good facilities up there in Derry. We don't even have an Irish shop here in Waterford. Ye have a huge language centre, and even a Gaeltacht of 200 houses that you weren't aware of.


  • #131
    Colette1712
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭Colette1712


    I'm finding this thread very interesting. Especially because I'm currently doing a research Masters regarding the Irish language + the impact of immersion education on it's use.


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  • #132
    Rick Deckard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Rick Deckard


    dlofnep wrote: »

    To be honest Owen, I know you're not into Irish culture, or the Irish language

    please don't generalize irish culture and irish language. you (fluent irish speakers) don't have the monopoly on being "Real" irish people


  • #133
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Colette1712 wrote: »
    I'm finding this thread very interesting. Especially because I'm currently doing a research Masters regarding the Irish language + the impact of immersion education on it's use.

    I'd be interested in reading your thesis when you're finished. I've researched quite a bit into immersion also, as it's how I myself learned the Irish language.


  • #134
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    peatcass wrote: »
    please don't generalize irish culture and irish language. you (fluent irish speakers) don't have the monopoly on being "Real" irish people

    Where did I state that I had a monopoly on anything?


  • #135
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    What exactly is immersion education? Learning everything through Irish?


  • #136
    Rick Deckard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Rick Deckard


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Where did I state that I had a monopoly on anything?

    by presuming owen has no interest in irish culture.. please show a quote supporting this claim.


  • #137
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    What exactly is immersion education? Learning everything through Irish?

    Pretty much. Immersion is where you are surrounded by the language - So you hear it, and speak it, see it, live it. It's how children learn a language before they ever enter school. Listening, speaking and immersing themselves in an environment that harvests it.


  • #138
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    peatcass wrote: »
    by presuming owen has no interest in irish culture.. please show a quote supporting this claim.

    It was an observation by that I acquired by reading his posts over the last year. Perhaps Owen might be able to tell us if he's interested in any specific parts of Irish culture or the Irish language.

    I ask again - where did I state that I had a monopoly, or even state that I was anymore Irish than anyone else in this thread? I would appreciate it if you could substantiate your claim. thank you.


  • #139
    Rick Deckard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Rick Deckard


    i already have, by saying in one breath owen has no interest in irish culture/language. you can see from my joining date i could have no idea what owen has said over the past year, but seeing as how you can't produce a quote, i suppose i'll have to take your word for it. bar yourself and owen, noone else reading this tread could possibly know for sure

    secondly by preaching that an entire country of taxpayers should support a long commercially dead language. as you said yourself, the household language is learnt by the child long before school age. why impose it on the rest of the class?


  • #140
    Rick Deckard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Rick Deckard


    cant wait all night on a reply, so going to bed.


  • #141
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    peatcass wrote: »
    i already have, by saying in one breath owen has no interest in irish culture/language. you can see from my joining date i could have no idea what owen has said over the past year, but seeing as how you can't produce a quote, i suppose i'll have to take your word for it. bar yourself and owen, noone else reading this tread could possibly know for sure

    Well, considering I was speaking directly to Owen - Why should I consider what your understanding is of him and his background? My understanding of Owen is that he's a young chap, and very proud of his British roots. I don't want to take the thread off topic discussing OwenC's views. He's more than capable of explaining them himself.
    peatcass wrote: »
    secondly by preaching that an entire country of taxpayers should support a long commercially dead language. as you said yourself, the household language is learnt by the child long before school age. why impose it on the rest of the class?

    To ensure that they have access to the language. All polls taken have always demonstrated support for the language. Why cut ties with something that the public obviously support?


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  • #142
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    peatcass wrote: »
    cant wait all night on a reply, so going to bed.

    You waited 6 minutes. Patience is obviously not one of your virtues.


  • #143
    magicface1
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭magicface1


    I hope not this is something that should ALWAYS be kept...


  • #144
    paultheviking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭paultheviking


    peatcass wrote: »
    i already have, by saying in one breath owen has no interest in irish culture/language. you can see from my joining date i could have no idea what owen has said over the past year, but seeing as how you can't produce a quote, i suppose i'll have to take your word for it. bar yourself and owen, noone else reading this tread could possibly know for sure

    secondly by preaching that an entire country of taxpayers should support a long commercially dead language. as you said yourself, the household language is learnt by the child long before school age. why impose it on the rest of the class?

    careful dealing with zealots pete. it'll be a long time before they see things as you see them. obvious to you and me the numbers don't stack up, i know


  • #145
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    paultheviking wrote: »
    careful dealing with zealots pete. it'll be a long time before they see things as you see them. obvious to you and me the numbers don't stack up, i know

    What numbers? Which zealots?


  • #146
    paultheviking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭paultheviking


    dlofnep wrote: »
    What numbers? Which zealots?

    exactly
    good night, don't stay up too late


  • #147
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    paultheviking wrote: »
    exactly
    good night, don't stay up too late

    Wonderful contribution.


  • #148
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Interestingly I had a conversation with my father a few hours about this and he maintains that Irish nowadays is much more widespread and popular then when he was a lad(he is in his 50s) would anyone else agree with this?


  • #149
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Interestingly I had a conversation with my father a few hours about this and he maintains that Irish nowadays is much more widespread and popular then when he was a lad(he is in his 50s) would anyone else agree with this?

    Yes, Urban Irish is definitely on the increase.


  • #150
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I think with the huge popularity of Gaelscoileanna (it basically guarantees a child a honors in LC Irish) the trend for Irish can only go up. I really wish I went to one, would love to be fluent or at least partially fluent. It shames me whenever I am talking to foreign people and they react with surprise that there is an Irish language. Their reaction is almost uniformly "why are you not speaking it?" And I can barely muster together a few basic sentences. Personally I feel there is a lot of national pride to be found in a language.


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  • #151
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Irish is on the increase, when I lived in Drumcondra Dublin I'd have elderly people greeting me in Irish and telling me it was an area known for this.
    Realy?

    The way Irish is taught isn't working, everyone sees this.
    You have students learning off stories and poems and they'd struggle to order a pint in Irish and hold a conversation with the opposite sex by the bar.

    TG4 is the best thing that ever happened the language.
    Fantastic documentaries, extensive sports and home grown drama like Ros na Run.
    Make Irish attractive and appealing.
    Did I forget Bouli the snowman?

    Realy, if you stopped making Irish a compulsory language in school it wouldn't immediately decline and it might even increase


This discussion has been closed.
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