Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

05-01-2018 3:21pm

I agree with Keegan for once,

“This is clearly not sustainable. In light of the now-delayed oral hearing the council will have to review the interim traffic management arrangements to determine what additional changes are required.”

The council is unlikely to ban buses from travelling to and from Dame Street ahead of the board’s decision, but can within its own traffic management powers, stop them from driving along the line in front of Trinity College to access Nassau Street and Dawson Street. It can also ban taxis and cars entirely from the area.

“We did not want to take precipitative action but the current situation can’t continue,” said Mr Keegan.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/traffic-restrictions-to-follow-shelving-of-plaza-hearing-1.3345276

Consonata · 05-01-2018 3:25pm

Banning cars off of dame street is the minimum that they could do. Cars need to be gone from OCS before CrossCity can be useable.

LeinsterDub · 05-01-2018 3:26pm

Consonata wrote: »

Banning cars off of dame street is the minimum that they could do. Cars need to be gone from OCS before CrossCity can be useable.

It's useable now.

MJohnston · 05-01-2018 3:33pm

Where was all of Owen Keegan's annoyance at stymied progress when DCC backed down over plans for Bachelor's Walk, the south Quays at O'Connell Bridge, and Parliament Street?

NuMarvel · 05-01-2018 4:35pm

cisk wrote: »

I agree with Keegan for once,

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/traffic-restrictions-to-follow-shelving-of-plaza-hearing-1.3345276

I blame the NTA and TII. Plonking a LUAS line down in the middle of the city without a word of warning, or discussion, or consultation. Sure no wonder DCC are scrambling to catch up when they had absolutely and utterly no prior warning of this.

Nope, none whatsoever...

Quackster · 05-01-2018 5:20pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's useable now.

Just about, but it will be a different story in a few months when it's operating an enhanced frequency with longer trams. Plus the reduced pedestrian priority at key junctions is not sustainable either.

LXFlyer · 05-01-2018 5:54pm

Quackster wrote: »

Just about, but it will be a different story in a few months when it's operating an enhanced frequency with longer trams. Plus the reduced pedestrian priority at key junctions is not sustainable either.

The LUAS frequency through the city centre isn’t going to increase - it’s already at the maximum of every 3 mins during the morning peak.

The problem is the longer trams which I expect will cause chaos.

Idbatterim · 05-01-2018 5:57pm

can they not take a section off them and use them on another tram, if this sorted the length issue?

LeinsterDub · 05-01-2018 5:59pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

can they not take a section off them and use them on another tram, if this sorted the length issue?

Completely not following what your saying. Are you saying shortening the new trams? Yes that would result in shorter trams but then we'd have the capacity issue return.

LeinsterDub · 05-01-2018 6:01pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

The LUAS frequency through the city centre isn’t going to increase - it’s already at the maximum of every 3 mins during the morning peak.

Frequency seems significantly lower this evening than when I got it before Christmas. Are they running a Saturday service?

LXFlyer · 05-01-2018 6:16pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Frequency seems significantly lower this evening than when I got it before Christmas. Are they running a Saturday service?

No - it's the Monday-Friday schedule this week.

Frequency in the city centre (like the bus network) is dependent upon the trams getting a clear run - maybe they got held up?

Spanish Eyes · 05-01-2018 6:21pm

Probably a stupid question, but why are longer trams required on LCC? Are they full to capacity right now? Are the longer trams the same length as the Red Line.

Thanks.

fionnsci · 05-01-2018 6:41pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Probably a stupid question, but why are longer trams required on LCC? Are they full to capacity right now? Are the longer trams the same length as the Red Line.

Thanks.

Longer trams are required on the green line generally as its pushing its capacity. The LCC platforms were built with this in mind as were platforms south of Sandyford. The original platforms have been lengthened over the last year or two. Red Line trams are already shorter than the current Green Line trams I believe. The more on-street sections, the harder it is to have long trams. The Green Line is more segregated from the road.

Stephen15 · 05-01-2018 8:01pm

fionnsci wrote: »

Longer trams are required on the green line generally as its pushing its capacity. The LCC platforms were built with this in mind as were platforms south of Sandyford. The original platforms have been lengthened over the last year or two. Red Line trams are already shorter than the current Green Line trams I believe. The more on-street sections, the harder it is to have long trams. The Green Line is more segregated from the road.

Now with Luas CC the Green Line probably has just as much street running than the Red and more interaction with busy traffic. The red line only runs on quieter streets which are almost tram exclusive. Although the Red Line has more interaction with traffic outside the CC such on the Naas Road and in Tallaght.

I do think that the Red Line trams should be upgraded to 54m in the long run mind you.

Idbatterim · 05-01-2018 8:04pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Completely not following what your saying. Are you saying shortening the new trams? Yes that would result in shorter trams but then we'd have the capacity issue return.

yeah they come in modules dont they? couldnt they simply be used on red line trams etc?

donvito99 · 05-01-2018 8:42pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Completely not following what your saying. Are you saying shortening the new trams? Yes that would result in shorter trams but then we'd have the capacity issue return.

yeah they come in modules dont they? couldnt they simply be used on red line trams etc?

New trams (longer) are being purchased and existing trams on the green line are being lengthened to match.

Jobs OXO · 05-01-2018 8:48pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah they come in modules dont they? couldnt they simply be used on red line trams etc?

Are the gauages not differing tho'?

G_R · 05-01-2018 8:50pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Are the gauages not differing tho'?

No, the trams are interchangeable between the lines

LeinsterDub · 05-01-2018 10:40pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

No - it's the Monday-Friday schedule this week.

Frequency in the city centre (like the bus network) is dependent upon the trams getting a clear run - maybe they got held up?

They where running to the RTI but Broombridge trams where only 10 minutes.

LeinsterDub · 05-01-2018 10:43pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah they come in modules dont they? couldnt they simply be used on red line trams etc?

They platforms are too short on the red line and I'm also half remembering something about the trams not being able to have further lengthening due to the the trams being too long between junctions

Spanish Eyes · 05-01-2018 10:47pm

Would the longer trams be required across OCB though.

I understand completely that the Grangegorman campus may rack up the usage. But other than that, why would longer trams be required. My apologies if I do not understand the logistics.

LeinsterDub · 05-01-2018 10:55pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Would the longer trams be required across OCB though.

I understand completely that the Grangegorman campus may rack up the usage. But other than that, why would longer trams be required. My apologies if I do not understand the logistics.

Yes they would but they will be too long to stop on OCB.

Because they are at wedge capacity in the morning already without factoring in the expected 10 million additional journeys

LXFlyer · 07-01-2018 11:37am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

They where running to the RTI but Broombridge trams where only 10 minutes.

Trams during the evening peak (17:00-18:00) are scheduled to depart Broombridge at 17:06, 17:20, 17:36, 17:48 and 18:00.

Scheduled peak frequency on the two extremities of the Green Line (Broombridge-Parnell & Sandyford-Brides Glen) is not anywhere near an acceptable level as yet.

All of the resources have been focussed on delivering a morning peak 3 minute frequency and evening peak frequency of every 4 minutes between Sandyford and Parnell and v.v.

Middle Man · 07-01-2018 3:58pm

I would like to see all cars (taxis included) and cyclists banned from any route of tramlines in the city centre - private transport has no business there.

1. Pedestrians
2. Trams
3. Buses

Nothing else on the tramways within the city centre during the day!

Winters · 07-01-2018 9:12pm

donvito99 wrote: »

New trams (longer) are being purchased and existing trams on the green line are being lengthened to match.

They have been purchased and are currently being delivered. They purchased additional sections that will being the length up to 9 units/sections long per tram. There are a couple of 9 unit trams already in the depots. Im not sure if they have had a run yet but due to enter service in early Feb.

LXFlyer · 07-01-2018 9:37pm

Winters wrote: »

They have been purchased and are currently being delivered. They purchased additional sections that will being the length up to 9 units/sections long per tram. There are a couple of 9 unit trams already in the depots. Im not sure if they have had a run yet but due to enter service in early Feb.

The first of them is undergoing commissioning tests - it will have to clock up a certain amount of mileage before entering service.

Testing would be at night I imagine.

LeinsterDub · 07-01-2018 9:43pm

Middle Man wrote: »

I would like to see all cars (taxis included) and cyclists banned from any route of tramlines in the city centre - private transport has no business there.

1. Pedestrians
2. Trams
3. Buses

Nothing else on the tramways within the city centre during the day!

Why cyclist?

markpb · 07-01-2018 9:50pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Why cyclist?

Because they hate cyclists with a passion.

LuckyLloyd · 08-01-2018 2:39pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Why cyclist?

markpb wrote: »

Because they hate cyclists with a passion.

Parts of the Tram route (Dawson Street / College Green / Parnell Square) seem unsuitable for cyclists.

Dyr · 08-01-2018 3:20pm

markpb wrote: »

Because they hate cyclists with a passion.

Yes, but there's cogent reasons too.

MJohnston · 08-01-2018 3:26pm

I'll say it again - cyclists don't want to be cycling on tram tracks, they want safe and sane alternative routes.

LeinsterDub · 08-01-2018 3:39pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I'll say it again - cyclists don't want to be cycling on tram tracks, they want safe and sane alternative routes.

Some cyclist don't want to be cycling beside tram tracks. I for one have to cross over the Luas 3 times to and from work. There isn't an alternative route.

MJohnston · 08-01-2018 3:54pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Some cyclist don't want to be cycling beside tram tracks. I for one have to cross over the Luas 3 times to and from work. There isn't an alternative route.

You'd prefer to have one though, wouldn't you?

CramCycle · 08-01-2018 4:01pm

MJohnston wrote: »

You'd prefer to have one though, wouldn't you?

Doesn't bother me but I can understand why some people would.

MJohnston · 08-01-2018 4:05pm

Having gone on my arse thanks to tram tracks once in the past myself, I'm happier to avoid them when possible, and I wish it was more possible to avoid them.

LeinsterDub · 08-01-2018 4:11pm

MJohnston wrote: »

You'd prefer to have one though, wouldn't you?

My crossing are all circa 90 degrees but I've cycled OCS and College Green and it didn't bother me. All things being equal it would be great but i'm not going to go around the world to avoid the Luas

LXFlyer · 08-01-2018 4:12pm

Chaos again this morning with lots of people on the Green Line heading for the city from the southside (from stops north of Leopardstown Valley unable to board during the morning peak due to them all being full.

Personally I let four full trams go by before abandoning the LUAS for Dublin Bus.

This is a shambles frankly.

MJohnston · 08-01-2018 4:18pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

My crossing are all circa 90 degrees but I've cycled OCS and College Green and it didn't bother me. All things being equal it would be great but i'm not going to go around the world to avoid the Luas

My point isn't long-winded alternative routes, it's about providing ones that are barely longer. For example, if there was a contraflow bike lane on Nassau Street, it would mean cyclists wouldn't have to use the end of Dawson Street with the Luas stop on it to get to College Green.

I tend to think cycling past stops is a lot more risky than just generally near tracks, because there's a much narrower safe path.

ArmaniJeanss · 08-01-2018 5:52pm

MJohnston wrote: »

My point isn't long-winded alternative routes, it's about providing ones that are barely longer. For example, if there was a contraflow bike lane on Nassau Street, it would mean cyclists wouldn't have to use the end of Dawson Street with the Luas stop on it to get to College Green.

I tend to think cycling past stops is a lot more risky than just generally near tracks, because there's a much narrower safe path.

Dawson St to College Green is perfectly fine for cycling, just stay between the two northbound rails all the way. I don't see how any alternative could be better.

MJohnston · 08-01-2018 6:15pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Dawson St to College Green is perfectly fine for cycling, just stay between the two northbound rails all the way. I don't see how any alternative could be better.

Apart from the alternative I just mentioned...

Another good alternative would be to open up a very small part of Trinity as a cycle route instead of College Green.

ArmaniJeanss · 08-01-2018 6:35pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Apart from the alternative I just mentioned...

Another good alternative would be to open up a very small part of Trinity as a cycle route instead of College Green.

I don't see how it would be better though, theres no need for alternatives when what's there already is fine. The actual Luas stop doesn't cause a problem (you referred to it causing a much narrower safe path) once you stay between the tracks instead.
By all means come up with a solution for Parnell, but I'm not convinced there's a problem doing Dawson St to College Green now. It's currently a stressfree part of the route.

Middle Man · 08-01-2018 7:15pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Chaos again this morning with lots of people on the Green Line heading for the city from the southside (from stops north of Leopardstown Valley unable to board during the morning peak due to them all being full.

Personally I let four full trams go by before abandoning the LUAS for Dublin Bus.

This is a shambles frankly.

When it seemed the we'd never have a national motorway system of any sort in the 1990's, the next decade changed all that. Now, when it currently seems that Dublin will never have a proper underground rail system, hopefully the 2020's will start to change all that. It's simple folks, either Dublin goes underground or the city will start to die as frustrated people move elsewhere for a better life. Time to get the lead out and get both the Metro and DART Inter-connector projects delivered.

LXFlyer · 08-01-2018 7:55pm

Middle Man wrote: »

When it seemed the we'd never have a national motorway system of any sort in the 1990's, the next decade changed all that. Now, when it currently seems that Dublin will never have a proper underground rail system, hopefully the 2020's will start to change all that. It's simple folks, either Dublin goes underground or the city will start to die as frustrated people move elsewhere for a better life. Time to get the lead out and get both the Metro and DART Inter-connector projects delivered.

I don’t disagree re underground one iota, but the underlying cause of the problems being experienced on the Green Line northbound in the mornings is nothing to do with that, but rather that the service was launched with insufficient rolling stock, and peak frequency (particularly south of Sandyford) has had to be cut to facilitate the extension.

The ineptitude is mind boggling. Surely an easy fix would be to temporarily curtail some northbound trams at St Stephens Green thus enabling more trams to operate on the original section of the route.

The status quo cannot continue with TRANSDEV saying it’ll all be solved by March - that in my view is unacceptable.

Del.Monte · 08-01-2018 7:57pm

Middle Man wrote: »

When it seemed the we'd never have a national motorway system of any sort in the 1990's, the next decade changed all that. Now, when it currently seems that Dublin will never have a proper underground rail system, hopefully the 2020's will start to change all that. It's simple folks, either Dublin goes underground or the city will start to die as frustrated people move elsewhere for a better life. Time to get the lead out and get both the Metro and DART Inter-connector projects delivered.

More like time to suspend Luas Cross City.

LeinsterDub · 08-01-2018 9:02pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

More like time to suspend Luas Cross City.

Your stand up routine requires a bit of work.

AngryLips · 08-01-2018 10:00pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Del.Monte wrote: »

More like time to suspend Luas Cross City.

Your stand up routine requires a bit of work.

And an EIS assessment

hmmm · 08-01-2018 10:42pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

I don’t disagree re underground one iota, but the underlying cause of the problems being experienced on the Green Line northbound in the mornings is nothing to do with that, but rather that the service was launched with insufficient rolling stock, and peak frequency (particularly south of Sandyford) has had to be cut to facilitate the extension.

It's crazy to think that they have cut capacity on existing long distance services to facilitate a new service, which could be avoided by a 10/15 minute walk. I don't know where the pressure was to launch in November - was it contractual? Either way, the solution is simple - curtail LCC until the service is properly ready to launch.

LXFlyer · 08-01-2018 10:52pm

hmmm wrote: »

It's crazy to think that they have cut capacity on existing long distance services to facilitate a new service, which could be avoided by a 10/15 minute walk. I don't know where the pressure was to launch in November - was it contractual? Either way, the solution is simple - curtail LCC until the service is properly ready to launch.

Political pressure would have been the principal element for requirement to meet the December launch (Not November!) - they had committed to it all along.

It's all the more of an issue for the stops along the section between Carrickmines and Leopardstown Valley, which don't have a viable alternative bus service, with the frequency of local bus routes being cut back in line with demand as LUAS took over as the principal mode of transport.

roadmaster · 10-01-2018 3:59pm

A former colleague of mine who was the most anti public transport person you could meet would always drive from Cabra to Stephens green for work. One morning during Christmas he was still over the limit after a night out so he decided to get the luas in to work. He has got it every day since , it shows if people that drive in can be shown good public transport works they will use it.

cgcsb · 10-01-2018 4:08pm

I like many others are just frustrated with DCC at this point. Just ban the fecking cars off the north quays and college green. There's just no room for them. Cars are still legally driving through College Green on weekends and in the evenings., sake!

Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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