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Piece on Cyclists on Prime Time RTE 1 9.35PM - Mod warning see OP/post 102

12467

Comments

  • #152
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Any chance you could explain that statement, wouldn't do what? Cycle to work and get in quicker? Stay generally healthier than those who commute by car? Reduce traffic volume for those who do travel by car and bus?

    Genetics have not been kind to me in terms of metabolic state and life expectancy, if I gave up cycling, it would be the equivalent of giving up about 25 years of my life if I live as long as predicted, with the last few years, statistically, being not the most pleasant.

    Could I get my exercise somewhere else, sure, but then I would have less time with my family and friends and my mental health would suffer. The few times I have drove in or got the bus, I am less awake and for all intents and purposes, cost my company money as it takes me awhile to hit full speed.

    what is with posters here and quoting parts of posts.
    I am specifically speaking about safety.
    your comment regarding your life expectancy is good, so you would agree with me that all cyclists should have safety equipment, insurance and safety course.


  • #153
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,804 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    tipparetops wrote: »
    what is with posters here and quoting parts of posts.
    I am specifically speaking about safety.

    I wasn't sure what you were saying either. "If cyclists were to really think about what they were doing, they wouldnt." That easily could mean: if cyclists were to think about cycling, they wouldn't cycle. I assume now you mean: if cyclists were to reflect on their irresponsible behaviour, they would stop behaving irresponsibly.

    Have you looked at the mega-threads yet, by the way? You're still finger-wagging about certain topics.


  • #154
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    tipparetops wrote: »
    There is no talking to ye, maybe to be a cyclist you have to be confident.
    If cyclists were to really think about what they were doing, they wouldnt.

    This is your full post
    tipparetops wrote: »
    what is with posters here and quoting parts of posts.
    It is a waste of time to quote full posts when they are not related to what someone is responding too.
    I am specifically speaking about safety.
    your comment regarding your life expectancy is good, so you would agree with me that all cyclists should have safety equipment, insurance and safety course.

    I am not sure of your view points but I am guessing they are pro all of the above, so no, I would not agree in the slightest.

    safety equipment - Aside from good brakes, good lights, good tyres and a well maintained bike, thats all the safety equipment a cyclist needs IMO but if you are referring to any other type that some people are convinced act as safety equipment, that conversation should be taken to the appropriate thread, linked to already.

    insurance - the cost of implementation, licensing, administration for something that has minimal cost to society at the minute, no, it would be a terrible idea. If only for the black hole of money in government expenditure, then for the numbers of people it would turn off cycling, be it through cost or perceived risk. It is an idiotic idea. Car insurance is only there for risk that has been well documented and to reduce the cost to the public exchequer and the innocent party in a collision. My co worker was pushed off his bike and broke his elbow the other day, should we have mandatory pedestrian insurance for this one incident?!?!?!?

    safety course - road safety training, for all users, pedestrians, cyclists etc. should be part of the national and secondary school education, a minimum requirement for a course before getting out of national school and another as part of the Junior Cert cycle.


  • #155
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I wasn't sure what you were saying either. "If cyclists were to really think about what they were doing, they wouldnt." That easily could mean: if cyclists were to think about cycling, they wouldn't cycle. I assume now you mean: if cyclists were to reflect on their irresponsible behaviour, they would stop behaving irresponsibly.

    I meant if cyclists were to really think about being on a road with trucks, cars, they would not do it.
    Cyclists must have to be super confident people to share road space with machines that weigh tonnes while they sit atop metal bars.


  • #156
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,656 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    tipparetops wrote: »
    There is no talking to ye, maybe to be a cyclist you have to be confident.
    If cyclists were to really think about what they were doing, they wouldnt.

    Half of my life I've been eligible to drive and for 99% of that time I've been cycling in Dublin City. In all that time, I've been in one accident.

    I was in a car and was hit by a driver who ran a light.

    If I was to really think about what I was doing, maybe I wouldn't get into a car...


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  • #157
    back2basicsdub
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭back2basicsdub


    People forget that some cyclists, like me, do pay Road Tax as I'm also a car owner. I find the best form defence is expecting and accepting that everyone else on the road is trying to kill you and that nobody in a vehicle can see you.

    That said in the 5 months I've been cycling to work I've found the worst people are other cyclists and pedestrians; they're the people that have walked out in front of me or nearly caused me to crash.

    Drivers, of which I am also one, should be thankful for cyclists because if we/they all drove to work the roads would be jammed, like they are when it rains due to more people opting to drive in to town.


  • #158
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,656 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    tipparetops wrote: »
    I meant if cyclists were to really think about being on a road with trucks, cars, they would not do it.
    Cyclists must have to be super confident people to share road space with machines that weigh tonnes while they sit atop metal bars.

    It's not about being confident. It's about avoiding situations, as much as possible, where you're at risk of coming into contact with one of the 'machines'.


  • #159
    back2basicsdub
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭back2basicsdub


    tipparetops wrote: »
    I meant if cyclists were to really think about being on a road with trucks, cars, they would not do it.
    Cyclists must have to be super confident people to share road space with machines that weigh tonnes while they sit atop metal bars.

    Thankfully most of the time in town the trucks and cars are separated from the cyclists by a bus lane. If find the bus drivers in general very conscious of cyclists.


  • #160
    niceonetom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom


    tipparetops wrote: »
    I meant if cyclists were to really think about being on a road with trucks, cars, they would not do it.
    Cyclists must have to be super confident people to share road space with machines that weigh tonnes while they sit atop metal bars.

    Or maybe they have first hand experience - something you clearly lack though apparently that is no impediment to you forming and espousing an opinion.

    Or maybe they're aware of the statistics of cycling, and know, for a fact that it is actually quite safe, and that in a broader context is likely to extend their lives rather than end them prematurely.

    But please, don't let anyone's well informed-positions get in the way of your soapboxing. You have so much to teach us.


  • #161
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    CramCycle wrote: »
    This is your full post

    It is a waste of time to quote full posts when they are not related to what someone is responding too.



    I am not sure of your view points but I am guessing they are pro all of the above, so no, I would not agree in the slightest.

    safety equipment - Aside from good brakes, good lights, good tyres and a well maintained bike, thats all the safety equipment a cyclist needs IMO but if you are referring to any other type that some people are convinced act as safety equipment, that conversation should be taken to the appropriate thread, linked to already.

    insurance - the cost of implementation, licensing, administration for something that has minimal cost to society at the minute, no, it would be a terrible idea. If only for the black hole of money in government expenditure, then for the numbers of people it would turn off cycling, be it through cost or perceived risk. It is an idiotic idea. Car insurance is only there for risk that has been well documented and to reduce the cost to the public exchequer and the innocent party in a collision. My co worker was pushed off his bike and broke his elbow the other day, should we have mandatory pedestrian insurance for this one incident?!?!?!?

    safety course - road safety training, for all users, pedestrians, cyclists etc. should be part of the national and secondary school education, a minimum requirement for a course before getting out of national school and another as part of the Junior Cert cycle.

    But what about your life expectancy.
    You must admit I have you there.
    Cyclists at a min. should have working lights, always on, hi - vis, helmet.
    And cyclists should be the ones pushing for this.


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  • #162
    Macy0161
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,484 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    On my commute, which is pretty much the same whether in the car or bike, I genuinely see more cars breaking laws than cyclists. Cars routinely jump red lights, are in bus lanes when they shouldn't be, illegal u turns, speeding, cars pulled into mandatory (and often grade separated) cycle lanes are all a daily occurence.

    In my experience most cyclists do obey red lights, out in the suburbs where most of my commute is these days at least, and where they don't it's pretty much the equivalent of jay walking through stopped traffic or rolling through with the pedestrian lights rather than ploughing straight through a red (i.e. technically an offence, but not a danger to themselves or others).

    Any road traffic offences could be dealt with now, under existing laws. The costs are disproportionate without fixed penalties, but they could be enforced nonetheless. Talk of introducing new requirements is quite frankly bollox, whilst so little enforcement is done on what we have, which would tackle the things motorists give out about. But then so many motorist offences go unpunished, I'm not sure why there should be a particular focus on cyclists (every junction should have red light cameras that can capture motorists, and identify problem areas for subsequent enforcement of cyclists).

    As for safety, well I have been knocked off once, when a car decided to u turn out of traffic as I overtook on the right. It wasn't dark, but I had two lights on my bike (including a cree that many consider too bright for city traffic). My other near misses have involved cars and taxis going into grade separated cycle lanes, or doing emergency stops into bus stops to pick up people.


  • #163
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    If cycling really were as dangerous as some people make it out to be, nobody would do it.

    The contention isn't borne out by accident statistics.


  • #164
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    tipparetops wrote: »
    Cyclists at a min. should have working lights, always on, hi - vis, helmet.
    And cyclists should be the ones pushing for this.

    You've been warned already that if you want to discuss helmets and high viz, take it to the relevant threads. These issued have already been discussed extensively.


  • #165
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    Ok I am in the wrong place, you are so pro yourselves, no one can dare question ye.
    Have a good cycle.


  • #166
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,569 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    tipparetops wrote: »
    I meant if cyclists were to really think about being on a road with trucks, cars, they would not do it.
    Cyclists must have to be super confident people to share road space with machines that weigh tonnes while they sit atop metal bars.
    Have you ever walked across a road? Or along one where there is no pavement?

    Have you looked at the cyclist fatality figures already quoted within this thread? Just to add, there have been 6 times as many pedestrian as cyclist fatalities on Irish roads so far this year. 3.5 times as many motorcyclist deaths. Over 13 times as many motorist deaths. As highlighted in the programme last night cycling within Dublin has doubled over the past few years, but serious accidents, and in particular fatalities are at an all-time low.

    You may be obsessed with trying to highlight your own perception of the dangers of cycling, but the actual facts do not seem to support that perception


  • #167
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    You've been warned already that if you want to discuss helmets and high viz, take it to the relevant threads. These issued have already been discussed extensively.

    I thought we were discussing cycling safety and behaviour, which is what Prime Time show was about.


  • #168
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,569 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    tipparetops wrote: »
    But what about your life expectancy.
    You must admit I have you there.
    I think there was a study we discussed on here some time ago which suggested the life expectancy of an active cyclist (ie one who uses cycling as a way to keep fit, rather simply as a convenience) is about 7 years longer than that of someone with a sedentary lifestyle


  • #169
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    Beasty wrote: »
    Have you ever walked across a road? Or along one where there is no pavement?

    Have you looked at the cyclist fatality figures already quoted within this thread? Just to add, there have been 6 times as many pedestrian as cyclist fatalities on Irish roads so far this year. 3.5 times as many motorcyclist deaths. Over 13 times as many motorist deaths. As highlighted in the programme last night cycling within Dublin has doubled over the past few years, but serious accidents, and in particular fatalities are at an all-time low.

    You may be obsessed with trying to highlight your own perception of the dangers of cycling, but the actual facts do not seem to support that perception

    those figure are skewed, I would like to see those figures just for Dublin.
    Cycling in the sticks does not really exist compared to Dublin.


  • #170
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    Beasty wrote: »
    I think there was a study we discussed on here some time ago which suggested the life expectancy of an active cyclist (ie one who uses cycling as a way to keep fit, rather simply as a convenience) is about 7 years longer than that of someone with a sedentary lifestyle

    And he could increase it more by using safety equipment, make that 7 into an 8.


  • #171
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,705 ✭✭✭54and56


    Beasty wrote: »
    Have you ever walked across a road? Or along one where there is no pavement?

    Have you looked at the cyclist fatality figures already quoted within this thread? Just to add, there have been 6 times as many pedestrian as cyclist fatalities on Irish roads so far this year. 3.5 times as many motorcyclist deaths. Over 13 times as many motorist deaths. As highlighted in the programme last night cycling within Dublin has doubled over the past few years, but serious accidents, and in particular fatalities are at an all-time low.

    You may be obsessed with trying to highlight your own perception of the dangers of cycling, but the actual facts do not seem to support that perception

    In fairness whilst the absolute numbers you quote may be correct they don't reflect the relative risk.

    10 pedestrian fatalities out of 2,000,000 pedestrian journeys every day or 10 motorcycle fatalities out of 200,000 motorcycle journeys is a lot less dangerous than 10 cyclist fatalities out of 50,000 cyclist journeys every day*

    * made up figures to illustrate the point - feel free to substitute the real figures to get the real relative risk.


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  • #172
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    tipparetops wrote: »
    But what about your life expectancy.
    You must admit I have you there.

    ?!? Because I cycle, I will statistically live longer than if I didn't, this is borne out by countless studies and common sense.
    tipparetops wrote: »
    Ok I am in the wrong place, you are so pro yourselves, no one can dare question ye.
    Have a good cycle.

    Not a question of questioning "us". I have no more affiliation to other posters here than you have to the person in the car beside you on the road.

    You have made comments which seem to perpetrate cycling as wreckless and dangerous behaviour. This is not agreed with by countless peer reviewed studies. Make statements all you want but be prepared to back them up with something more concrete than your opinion of something I presume you have not taken part in for quite sometime.


  • #173
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    tipparetops wrote: »
    Ok I am in the wrong place, you are so pro yourselves, no one can dare question ye.
    Have a good cycle.

    You didn't answer my questions about insurance or bike ids for children. Would you like to develop your plan a bit more?


  • #174
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    tipparetops wrote: »
    And he could increase it more by using safety equipment, make that 7 into an 8.

    You are correct, lights (from readers dusk until the light of morning, although I leave mine on as DRLs) and good brakes are essential, as well as good tyres although I am unaware of studies into them, they are all important for cycling.


  • #175
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    CramCycle wrote: »
    ?!? Because I cycle, I will statistically live longer than if I didn't, this is borne out by countless studies and common sense.



    Not a question of questioning "us". I have no more affiliation to other posters here than you have to the person in the car beside you on the road.

    You have made comments which seem to perpetrate cycling as wreckless and dangerous behaviour. This is not agreed with by countless peer reviewed studies. Make statements all you want but be prepared to back them up with something more concrete than your opinion of something I presume you have not taken part in for quite sometime.

    Forget about that now,
    We all agree you cycle for your health,
    Would you not be pro - safety gear, for your health.
    It is your conundrum, Have you an answer.


  • #176
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,656 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    tipparetops wrote: »
    Would you not be pro - safety gear, for your health.

    Where have you seen the anti-safety gear sentiment here?


  • #177
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Where have you seen the anti-safety gear sentiment here?

    Read all previous posts, Enjoy.


  • #178
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,656 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    tipparetops wrote: »
    Read all previous posts, Enjoy.

    I have. There's no anti-safety gear sentiment.


  • #179
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    tipparetops wrote: »
    Would you not be pro - safety gear, for your health.
    Not on a compulsory basis. Because things aren't that simple. Without debating whether or not specific types of safety gear are actually effective, the international evidence shows that compulsory enforcement of safety equipment actually results in a relative increase in risk.

    This is primarily down to the fact that compulsion creates a reduction in cyclists and therefore an increase in risk. But also that safety equipment has the effect of causing people to be more complacent about safety.

    There's a difference between equipment which protects you from an accident and equipment which protects you in an accident. So lights are the former and an airbag is the latter.

    But in people's minds they tend not to distinguish these things. Thus when you tell people they're protected from injury in a crash, they have a tendency to think they're protected from a crash.

    Likewise, the disconnect can run the other way too - because you're wearing equipment that helps you avoid accidents, the person thinks it will save them from injury too, and so are more likely to take risks.

    Roads are complicated places because they're so reliant on the human factor. Whole careers are made out of studying traffic dynamics, thousands of hours spent attempting to create models that will accurately predict traffic flow.
    Likewise, safety is not a simple matter of telling people to whack on some safety gear and off you go. You can end up having the exact opposite effect because you forgot to take the human factor into account.


  • #180
    morana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭morana


    missed it. might look at it back on the player.

    Its great to have all the motorists over for a chat isnt it.

    PS Well done Gambrella on last week!


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  • #181
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    MOD VOICE: Cards are getting handed out now.
    Helmet thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93902308
    Hi Vis thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88491882

    Leave these topics out of this thread, I don't think they were even mentioned but if they were, you can bring it up in the above threads. PM me if there is any confusion about this, no discussion in thread.


  • #182
    SomeFool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭SomeFool


    tipparetops wrote: »
    those figure are skewed, I would like to see those figures just for Dublin.
    Cycling in the sticks does not really exist compared to Dublin.

    I split my time between Kerry and cork, plenty cycling down this part if the world. I commute to work by bike with plenty other cyclists on the road, there's a healthy racing/leisure scene and cork city has just launched a public bike scheme. If you only want to see the negative in something, and have no experience of it you actually bring nothing relevant to the debate.


  • #183
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    Every time I go home to the arse of Donegal I'll go for a spin... I meet multiple riders every single time. Seriously, I'm from the pits of the country and when I'd go out cycling as a kid, I'd be the only one, now there are groups going past me. It does most definitely exist.


  • #184
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    SomeFool wrote: »
    I split my time between Kerry and cork, plenty cycling down this part if the world. I commute to work by bike with plenty other cyclists on the road, there's a healthy racing/leisure scene and cork cityhas just launched a public bike scheme. If you only want to see the negative in something, and have no experience of it you actually bring nothingh relevant to the debate.
    Harrybelafonte wrote: »
    Every time I go home to the arse of Donegal I'll go for a spin... I meet multiple riders every single time. Seriously, I'm from the pits of the country and when I'd go out cycling as a kid, I'd be the only one, now there are groups going past me. It does most definitely exist.

    We all know it exists so don't rise to it. Look at the number of Sportives and clubs setting up outside of Dublin in the last 12 months and we can see a pretty steady rise month on month. With programs like the "Couch to Saddle" been promoted and dedicated Leisure groups in the clubs this will continue on an upward spiral.

    We will always have people who just dont like cyclists, its a case of protecting ourselves on the bikes and watching out for the idiots who have no regard for anyone else.

    The program last night showed cyclists and pedestrians acting stupidly, idiots will exist no matter what activity is it, just have to make sure your not one of them.


  • #185
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    I rarely see cyclists on the roads.
    Not the picture you paint, I regularly see the lads who get dressed up at the weekends.
    I would be driving around south east regularly , a big area for cycling once with links to Sean kelly, I rarely see cyclists outside the weekend crowd and even that is small.


  • #186
    Daithi101
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭Daithi101


    Johnny Jukebox wrote: »
    Same here, I commute 40kms a day, have been riding a bike in Dublin for 41 years.

    To echo others, ride defensively, expect the worst, be grateful for anything else. Oh and hydro disk brakes too.

    Same as with the exception of the 41 years .... I have found self preservation is key to happy commute, that and asking myself would I do that if I was driving, ie try and undertake a bus/car/van/lorry indicating to turn left.

    And I wonder how those extra 30 seconds that are gained by running that red light or holding back a while a vehicle completes a turn regardless of whether they are right or wrong to do it.

    Personally though I like like overtaking the people who run red lights a 100 yards down to the road, (repeat for numerous sets of traffic lights) :cool:


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  • #187
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    Helmets? Check.
    High-Viz? Check.
    Whataboutery? Check.
    Straw men? Check.

    I'm shaping up to call "Bingo" here.
    Dont forget "Ive nothing against cyclists but <insert something against cyclists>".


  • #188
    check_six
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    Thargor wrote: »
    Dont forget "Ive nothing against cyclists but <insert something against cyclists>".

    "Some of my best friends are cyclists..."


  • #189
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3098972/The-moment-sorrowful-truck-driver-shook-hand-cyclist-s-widow-admitting-killing-road-accident.html


    James Ward OBE, prosecuting, said Mr Bamford cycled on to the road and when he found he couldn't continue on the footpath, he dismounted.

    He attempted to walk his bike between the lorries, but while the gap he entered was 81cm, he found he couldn't exit a 36cm gap at the other end.

    Mr Ward said he backtracked but caught his jacket on Keegan's lorry, and the driver drew off without checking his nearside mirror.

    'Mr Bamford was dragged around ten feet,' Mr Ward told the court.

    'The bike fell away from him and people were yelling for the driver to stop.

    'Mr Bamford was released from being stuck, he fell to the floor and the nearside rear tyre came into contact with him and killed him instantly.'


  • #190
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    zerks wrote: »
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3098972/The-moment-sorrowful-truck-driver-shook-hand-cyclist-s-widow-admitting-killing-road-accident.html

    Struggling to see the relevance of that post.

    Does anyone know if the HGV driver (Kieran Long) in the death of Karl McGee included in the Prime Time report was charged with dangerous driving? I can only find a reference to a civil case being settled last year online.

    I found the inclusion of a death from 6 years ago rather odd, perhaps the death of the poor girl in Blackrock might have been more relevant.


  • #191
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    schemingbohemia wrote: »
    I found the inclusion of a death from 6 years ago rather odd, perhaps the death of the poor girl in Blackrock might have been more relevant.
    I guess the aim was to demonstrate the issue within the canal cordon in relation to road space, rather than come to point fingers at any particular type of vehicle or to try and say that cycling is dangerous.

    Though in one regard the fact that they had to go back to 2009 to find an example for the programme in fact illustrates the exact opposite of what they're trying to intimate. The Dublin City area is on raw figures insanely safe to cycle in. The fact that 10,000 commuters cross into the city area by bike every day - not including the volume of trips made within the city; 5,000 dublinbikes journeys per day, plus couriers and residents inside the city - goes to show that in fact we're actually doing pretty damn good.


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  • #192
    inforfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,862 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    I am Dutch so i was cycling before i could walk... And cycled a lot.
    But when i arrived here i gave up cycling after 2 months. It is a pity because i could use the exercise but I value my life just a little bit too much.
    Infrastructure being rotten is one thing but behaviour and total lack of having a clue of a lot of road users is another thing.

    Everybody agrees (car) driving standards are piss poor in this country, lots of people just ****ing about. So as soon as they climb on a bicycle you think it will be different?


  • #193
    L'Enfer du Nord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    To be fair I often see cyclists take stupid risks. Was cycling across the East Link, North bound recently. There was a truck waiting behind a car at the round-about on the North end of the bridge. I slowed down to a stop behind the truck on the basis it could move off at any time and turn left on to the round-about. I hear some tuting behind me and a cyclist comes past me and 'filters' inside the truck. He got by fine and the truck took off about 30 seconds later. Is it ever worth the risk to save a few seconds?


  • #194
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,656 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »
    To be fair I often see cyclists take stupid risks.

    I don't think anyone sane would disagree. There are stupid cyclists, stupid pedestrians and stupid drivers.

    But they're a minority in each.


  • #195
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,212 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    one response to the argument that cyclists should be licenced - i wonder how many drivers out there are driving on full licences without having passed the test, because of the amnesty in 1979. over 60,000 licences were handed out.
    my mother has a full licence and never passed a test.


  • #196
    L'Enfer du Nord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    tipparetops wrote: »
    Collision insurance, it could be state led.
    100€ for the year.

    ...

    [When asked who should pay]
    everyone who cycles on a road with motorists.

    So at least a 1000 euros per child (up to the age of 18) for parents who want their children to be able to cycle as a form of road transport.

    I think having a child cycling around with you could become a status symbol. Its one way to encourage cycling I suppose.


  • #197
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    If motorists are very worried about the safety of cyclists sharing roads with them, I hope they're going to campaign for separate cycle lanes of the quality that's the norm in Germany, Holland and Denmark.


  • #198
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »
    So at least a 1000 euros per child (up to the age of 18) for parents who want their children to be able to cycle as a form of road transport.

    I think having a child cycling around with you could become a status symbol. Its one way to encourage cycling I suppose.

    Haha. And my GF's occasional 1 mile cycle to Tesco for emergency groceries is going to be very expensive. As if Tesco isn't expensive enough


  • #199
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »
    So at least a 1000 euros per child (up to the age of 18) for parents who want their children to be able to cycle as a form of road transport.

    I think having a child cycling around with you could become a status symbol. Its one way to encourage cycling I suppose.

    100 not a 1000
    i think that 100 is very cheap, and it would make cyclists more aware if they could be held accountable.


  • #200
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    tipparetops wrote: »
    100 not a 1000
    i think that 100 is very cheap, and it would make cyclists more aware if they could be held accountable.
    In comparison to car insurance, €100 is insanely expensive.

    €10 would be more appropriate. But as other countries have found, the cost of admin and enforcement is basically not worth it.


  • #201
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    How does insurance make them accountable? I'm lost here. Who is being paid this insurance and what are you insuring against?

    For your car you are paying insurance so that if you damage someone else's car you can pay to have it repaired. Not sure what the point of this is at all.

    Bike isn't going to do much damage to a car in an accident. So who is getting the premium and what is being insured, i.e what would you put in a claim for?


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