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The Hazards of Belief

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    #9812
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    They have female ministers in the CoI. Though it could still be minister singular. And I'm not sure what you mean in relation to adoption benefit.

    Yes I'm aware the CoI permits female ministers... Doubt RC priests are allowed adopt kids, that's an idea which has never crossed my mind before.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #9813
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    You can't really ask this question about "the church" as though it were a single corporate entity; it isn't. It's a surprising decentralised collection of entities whose tax status varies. But, for the most part, looking at dioceses and religious congregations:

    Ok fair enough, does the RCC pay property tax as a matter of interest?

    Would bring in a lot of useful revenue if they do.


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    #9814
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    There's nothing in the Adoptions Acts to prevent a Catholic priest from being approved as an adoptive parent, although (a) it's unthinkable that he would actually be approved by the Adoption Board and (b) it's unthinkable that his bishop would allow him to adopt a child while still in ministry. So it ain't gonna happen.

    But legally, in theory, it could happen, and so in theory a cleric could qualify for adoption benefit. And because this is a theoretical possiblity, he will pay social insurance contributions on that basis (as do many other people who, in reality, will never be approved as adoptive parents).

    Residential property tax: there's an exemption for residential properties owned by charities which are adapted to people with special needs. So, a church-run scheme that provided sheltered housing for the elderly, or accommodation for people with disabilities, or supported sober accommodation for people with substance abuse issues, etc, would not be liable to LPT on those properties. (Nor would a secular charity running such schemes.)

    But I guess the question is about clergy housing owned by Catholic dioceses. Yes, this is liable to LPT.


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    #9815
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    There's nothing in the Adoptions Acts to prevent a Catholic priest from being approved as an adoptive parent

    There's no law stopping him from getting married, either. Way to miss the point...
    But legally, in theory, it could happen, and so in theory a cleric could qualify for adoption benefit. And because this is a theoretical possiblity, he will pay social insurance contributions on that basis (as do many other people who, in reality, will never be approved as adoptive parents).

    Not all full time employees do so. Pre-1995 public and civil servants don't - hence no entitlement to maternity or adoptive benefit.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #9816
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    There's no law stopping him from getting married, either. Way to miss the point...
    No, that is exactly the point. You don't get a carve-out from social insurance contributions on the grounds that it is practically certain that you will never claim the benefits - only on the grounds that you are not entitled to the claim the benefits, as a matter of law. (And even then the carve-out has to be negotiated, agreed and legislated.)
    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Not all full time employees do so. Pre-1995 public and civil servants don't - hence no entitlement to maternity or adoptive benefit.
    The rationale therefore, if I recall correctly, is that they got comparable or better maternity/adoptive pay as a condition of their employment, so it made no sense to require them to pay social insurance contributions to get a second benefit covering the same eventualities.

    No such rationale, obviously, applies to priests. So they never got a cave-out from the social insurance scheme in respect of these benefits.


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    #9817
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    No, that is exactly the point. You don't get a carve-out from social insurance contributions

    I don't think anyone was suggesting they should.
    But it is rather odd that CoI ministers get a PRSI class all to themselves. No JSB or occupational injuries benefit. Now maybe CoI is obliged to cover their salary if they trip over their cassock. But I'm sure it's possible for a CoI minister to be dismissed, so why no JSB? (and an insured person who resigns their job is entitled to JSB, after a waiting period.)
    No such rationale, obviously, applies to priests. So they never got a cave-out from the social insurance scheme in respect of these benefits.

    Would need to have a look at their contract of employment to be sure about that :)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #9818
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Normally I don't get into religious festivals, but when I do its

    https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/sumo/tournament/202001/day11.html


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    #9819
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    French teenager goes into hiding after insulting Islam

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/french-teenager-in-hiding-after-insulting-islam-online-0vl5hrs0m?wgu=270525_54264_15799550062254_549d5b6dc6&wgexpiry=1587731006&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278


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    #9820
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    robindch wrote: »
    Things are bad in Waterford and Lismore. Very bad indeed. What with Reiki and Satan doing the rounds. But cometh the hour, cometh the man. In the form of Bishop Alphonsus Cullinan - "We're finding our feet in this area", he explained in a radio interview:
    Well, Alphonsus, who has taken to signing his letters "+Phonsie", has had a good think over his christmas pud, spent some more time finding his feet and is now pointing the finger of blame at "new culture" which he reckons is "trying to undo the truths of the entire Judeo-Christian system from the ground up”. He doesn't stop there either.

    https://www.waterfordlismore.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Pastoral-Letter-Jan-2020.pdf


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    #9821
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The church are milking the tragic events in Newcastle for all they're worth. Pretty sickening.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #9822
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Grim reading


    Asia Bibi, the Christian woman who spent eight years on death row in Pakistan for blasphemy, has released two photographs taken in exile, as she prepares for the launch of her autobiography on Wednesday.

    Bibi was originally sentenced to death on flimsy evidence in 2010 after being accused of blasphemy in a dispute over a cup of water. Two Pakistani politicians were later killed for publicly supporting her and criticising the country’s draconian blasphemy laws.

    Eventually in late 2018, Pakistan’s supreme court overturned her conviction, but that decision triggered violent protests throughout Pakistan and calls for the judges in the case to be killed.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/28/asia-bibi-pakistani-woman-jailed-for-blasphemy-releases-photos-in-exile


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    #9823
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,023 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    The church are milking the tragic events in Newcastle for all they're worth. Pretty sickening.

    I haven't seen this, what's their argument? (And how come they didn't seem to question their possible links with Alan Hawe when the parish priest was reminiscing about the time he spent in their "happy" home?)


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    #9824
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Grim reading

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/28/asia-bibi-pakistani-woman-jailed-for-blasphemy-releases-photos-in-exile

    I followed most of this as it unfolded at the time via amnesty. Horrific stuff on quite a few levels.


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    #9825
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    volchitsa wrote: »
    I haven't seen this, what's their argument?

    PP was all over the media with the usual hand-wringing

    Then the next day the story about how the poor husband was at mass! I mean FFS who put that out there, it was hardly some randomer it was in ALL the media.

    (And how come they didn't seem to question their possible links with Alan Hawe when the parish priest was reminiscing about the time he spent in their "happy" home?)

    They were all about what a fine upstanding member of the parish he was, etc. and then pressurised the traumatised family of his victims to put them in the same grave as the monster who killed them. Classy.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #9826
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Feeding off the desperate -


    At least 20 people have been killed and more than a dozen injured in a crush during a church service at a stadium in northern Tanzania, a government official said.
    Hundreds of people packed a stadium on Saturday evening in Moshi town, near the slopes of Mount Kilimanjaro, and were crushed as they rushed to get anointed with “blessed oil”.

    Tanzania has seen a rise in recent years in the number of “prosperity gospel” pastors, who promise to lift people out of poverty and perform what they call miracle cures.
    Thousands of people in the nation of 55 million flock to Pentecostal churches, whose main source of income is “tithe”, the 10% or so of income that worshippers are asked to contribute.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/02/crush-during-rush-for-blessed-oil-at-tanzania-church-service-leaves-20-dead


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    #9827
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Feeding off the desperate

    Seems to be what organised religion does best.


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    #9828
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    In news that could only annoy the Russian Orthodox Church's principal benefactor, the Russian Orthodox Church is considering ceasing to consecrate weapons of mass destruction:

    https://meduza.io/amp/en/news/2020/02/04/russian-orthodox-church-might-stop-consecrating-weapons-of-mass-destruction
    Meduza wrote:
    The Inter-Council Presence of the Russian Orthodox Church, an advisory body that helps draft church policy, has suggested ending the practice of consecrating both some conventional weapons and weapons of mass destruction. The proposal will be under review until at least June 1. Members of the Inter-Council Presence argue that consecrating weapons doesn’t reflect the church’s traditions and should be “abolished from pastoral practice.”

    The Russian Orthodox Church has been reconsidering its policy on consecrating weapons since last summer. Russian priests are known for blessing many of Russia’s deadliest killing machines. In recent years, clergy have consecrated Su-25 fighter jets, Su-34 tactical bombers, and more.


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    #9829
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Reminds me of this:

    https://ifiplayer.ie/radharc-blessing-the-aer-lingus-fleet/

    8:05 - In-flight prayer booklet must be very reassuring for passengers...

    The plane-blessing action starts at 9:00. I wonder how long that 'tradition" (then barely 25 years old, at most) lasted?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #9830
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Reminds me of this:

    https://ifiplayer.ie/radharc-blessing-the-aer-lingus-fleet/

    8:05 - In-flight prayer booklet must be very reassuring for passengers...

    The plane-blessing action starts at 9:00. I wonder how long that 'tradition" (then barely 25 years old, at most) lasted?
    Do we know that it has stopped even now? Aer Lingus planes still carry saints' names, after all; their latest acquisition, an A330 which entered service last November, is "St. Sillan".


  • Options
    #9831
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Well it's a long time since they were able to park the entire fleet on the apron at Dublin all at once :)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #9832
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Do we know that it has stopped even now? Aer Lingus planes still carry saints' names, after all; their latest acquisition, an A330 which entered service last November, is "St. Sillan".

    Could make for a nice new company slogan. "Aer Lingus, getting you there on a wing and a prayer" :)


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    #9833
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Ryanair: Have your ticket printed on a mass card for €20

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #9834
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    smacl wrote: »
    Could make for a nice new company slogan. "Aer Lingus, getting you there on a wing and a prayer" :)

    As long as you don't access the plane via the stairway to Heaven.


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    #9835
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    smacl wrote: »
    Could make for a nice new company slogan. "Aer Lingus, getting you there on a wing and a prayer" :)
    As opposed to Ryanair's Boeing-inspired "With each take-off, bringing you one step closer to Jesus".


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    #9836
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    A guy in the anti-vaxxer thread has cited the bible as 'proof' that human longevity is declining.
    I dunno at all,if you read the bible we used to be able to make 1000 years now we are only making 100 we seem to have got worse

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #9837
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    A guy in the anti-vaxxer thread has cited the bible as 'proof' that human longevity is declining.

    Reminds me why critical thinking really needs to be introduced into our school curricula from an early age. Even regular thinking would be a start in some cases.... ;)


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    #9838
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    The new attorney general is a member of a controversial religious sect which continues to venerate its founder despite well-documented claims that he was a serial sexual predator, the Observer can reveal.
    Suella Braverman is a mitra – Sanskrit for “friend” – within the Triratna order, one of Buddhism’s largest sects, which has been rocked by claims of sexual misconduct, abuse and inappropriate behaviour.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/15/new-attorney-general-suella-braverman-in-controversial-buddhist-sect


    Also
    http://www.ex-cult.org/fwbo/fwbofiles.htm#properfound


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    #9839
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Meh. Every member of that cabinet is a member of a sect that continues to venerate and indeed to sustain in power Boris Johnson, a serial liar, an abandoner of his own children and a corrupt abuser of public trust. Call me dull, boring and old-fashioned, but that's at leats as big a problem.


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    #9840
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Crass stupidity
    India's uncomfortable relationship with periods is back in the headlines.
    College students living in a hostel in the western Indian state of Gujarat have complained that they were made to strip and show their underwear to female teachers to prove that they were not menstruating.
    The 68 young women were pulled out of classrooms and taken to the toilet, where they were asked to individually remove their knickers for inspection.
    The incident took place in the city of Bhuj on Tuesday. The young women are undergraduate students at Shree Sahajanand Girls Institute (SSGI), which is run by Swaminarayan sect, a wealthy and conservative Hindu religious group.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-51504992


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    #9841
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Odhinn I did find it funny that your Guardian link fell foul of the Boards censor.

    Replace **** with s h i t and it works!

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



This discussion has been closed.
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