Communions/confirmations, utter farce?

Galvasean · 27-05-2013 11:58pm

shes_crazy wrote: »

You do realise that Christianity successfully conquered paganism and appropriated its festivals for a greater purpose?

Just like how the Godless are currently conquering Christianity and appropriating Christmas for greater purposes? :pac:

This is fun.

Tordelback · 28-05-2013 12:21am

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

They also supported the British Whig party over the Irish Home Rule until it became obvious the latter (Founded by Protestant Issaac Butt and later led by fellow Protestant Charles Stewart Parnell) had the support of the Irish people.

Perhaps most critically it was the Catholic Church's moral assassination of Parnell that destroyed this island's best hope for peaceful Home Rule, and the independence that would have followed in time.

Doctor Strange · 28-05-2013 10:12am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Has it? Or has the paganism at the heart of Christianity subverted it?

Btw 'pagan' comes from the Latin paganii meaning forest dwellers in the same way as the word 'culchi' comes from Coillte (forest). It just means people who live outside settlements like villages/towns/cities.

I was never aware of that.

Also, Christmas....presents.....food....movies etc.

Brian Shanahan · 28-05-2013 1:38pm

shes_crazy wrote: »

So you're saying that Catholicism had no role in gaining independence from Britain?!

No it did not. Most of the leaders of the various republican movements up until deV got in to the Dáil with FF were pretty agnostic wrt religion in the public state sphere.

And quite a few of our most prominent and best rebel leaders were Protestants.

Actually deV had a lot to answer for by destroying the secular nature of Irish nationalism with his 1937 constitution.

Brian Shanahan · 28-05-2013 3:09pm

Just was listening to Joe Duffy a few minutes ago, and there was a priest on from Carlow who made an interesting anecdotal observation, that of the c.250 kids getting their communion annually in his parish, he generally only sees about 40 the week after and 20 the week after that. So it is clearly not done for religious reasons for most.

He also went on to make two sensible suggestions, a) take the preparation out of school, to lessen the pressure on families not really interested in participating from doing so, and b) having young people doing the ceremony at a later age in order that they make an informed decision to have communion/confirmation or not.

Turtwig · 28-05-2013 3:12pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Just was listening to Joe Duffy a few minutes ago, and there was a priest on from Carlow who made an interesting anecdotal observation, that of the c.250 kids getting their communion annually in his parish, he generally only sees about 40 the week after and 20 the week after that. So it is clearly not done for religious reasons for most.

He also went on to make two sensible suggestions, a) take the preparation out of school, to lessen the pressure on families not really interested in participating from doing so, and b) having young people doing the ceremony at a later age in order that they make an informed decision to have communion/confirmation or not.

Now, now, most of the children are obviously still Catholic. Their parents may be still catholic it's just the whole Church stances on going to Mass, premarital sex, gay marriage, fish on fridays, frequent confessions etc. that they don't agree with.

Brian Shanahan · 28-05-2013 3:46pm

otto_26 wrote: »

Ya hate all those hypocrites that celebrate Christmas and they try to justify celebrating Christmas by saying it's not about the birth of Jesus to them, so that's why it's OK for them to celebrate the religious event.

A) Christmas is a pagan festival, with origins in Northern Europe. Therefore if you want to talk about stealing it, take the beam from your own eye first.

Jesus wasn't born at christmas. According to the bible the best date for his birthday would be sometime in the Autumn. Shepards do not leave their flocks out on hills in winter, not even in Israel.

Penn · 28-05-2013 4:10pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Just was listening to Joe Duffy a few minutes ago, and there was a priest on from Carlow who made an interesting anecdotal observation, that of the c.250 kids getting their communion annually in his parish, he generally only sees about 40 the week after and 20 the week after that. So it is clearly not done for religious reasons for most.

He also went on to make two sensible suggestions, a) take the preparation out of school, to lessen the pressure on families not really interested in participating from doing so, and b) having young people doing the ceremony at a later age in order that they make an informed decision to have communion/confirmation or not.

I don't think it matters when you make communion, but confirmation definitely shouldn't be until you're 18. You're confirming that you will continue to be a christian for the rest of your life, and that the promises your parents made for you at your baptism, you will continue with yourself. That's basically what the ceremony is. I was 11 when I made my confirmation. Not even nearly 12, about 11 and 3 months. I made that decision because I was told I was making that decision.

It's complete horsesh*t that that takes place at such a young age. Like others, my confirmation was merely how I earned money for a Playstation. That was all I was thinking of.

If confirmation didn't happen until you were 18 and there was no big ceremony about it, many people wouldn't bother with it.

swampgas · 28-05-2013 4:31pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Just was listening to Joe Duffy a few minutes ago, and there was a priest on from Carlow who made an interesting anecdotal observation, that of the c.250 kids getting their communion annually in his parish, he generally only sees about 40 the week after and 20 the week after that. So it is clearly not done for religious reasons for most.

He also went on to make two sensible suggestions, a) take the preparation out of school, to lessen the pressure on families not really interested in participating from doing so, and b) having young people doing the ceremony at a later age in order that they make an informed decision to have communion/confirmation or not.

I'm sure he'll be hearing from the bishop before very long.

shruikan2553 · 28-05-2013 4:36pm

I would be interested in seeing the results of an experiment where you offer a class of students doing their confirmation a list of religions to join with how much money they would receive beside it.

Catholic €500
Protestant €600
Jewish €700
Muslim €800
Scientology €1000

Have 2 or 3 classes asked separately without contact from other students and another 2-3 where the students can walk around and discuss with each other.

Obliq · 28-05-2013 4:39pm

Great idea! I'll suggest it to my teen to bring up in CPSE or RE or whatever they're calling it now. I can pretty much guess the outcome, but the discussions as to which religions could subsequently have a hold over you would be interesting....

Oh wait, I didn't read the "doing their confirmation" part properly. Will have to ask the 11yr old militantly atheist son instead...

shruikan2553 · 28-05-2013 4:44pm

Obliq wrote: »

Great idea! I'll suggest it to my teen to bring up in CPSE or RE or whatever they're calling it now. I can pretty much guess the outcome, but the discussions as to which religions could subsequently have a hold over you would be interesting....

Oh wait, I didn't read the "doing their confirmation" part properly. Will have to ask the 11yr old militantly atheist son instead...

Other ages would work too, I just said confirmation age because they would be already talking about a religious event where they will be getting money

Obliq · 28-05-2013 4:50pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Other ages would work too, I just said confirmation age because they would be already talking about a religious event where they will be getting money

Yeah, true. It'd be interesting to note the difference in the outcomes between different age groups too. I reckon the older kids would be much more inclined not to sign up to a religion for financial gain, or any religion for that matter.

shruikan2553 · 28-05-2013 4:59pm

Obliq wrote: »

Yeah, true. It'd be interesting to note the difference in the outcomes between different age groups too. I reckon the older kids would be much more inclined not to sign up to a religion for financial gain, or any religion for that matter.

Around communion it would be all about the money. The older they are some might think that their parents/grandparents are catholic and gran would get angry if they werent so decide to keep the piece and become catholic.

That would be another thing to look at, why did they choose a certain religion? Money, family expectations or spiritual.

the culture of deference · 29-05-2013 4:31pm

Sarky wrote: »

Somebody give me funding and a barrel full of monkeys, and I'll make it happen.

Some about to be free monkeys here

Enda Kenny is planning to set up a high-powered Dail committee to specifically scrutinise legislation after the Seanad is scrapped.

Magenta wrote: »

There are women here too, you know. I know that your religion treats us as second-class citizens and sees us as little more than baby vessels, but we do at least deserve to be acknowledged.

38 seconds

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I don't know if I've even told my son that Christians think it's Jesus birthday. Might have mentioned it, but he wouldn't care a less so long as Santa is coming. I like Santa because it's a fairytale full of magic, but unlike religion children are expected to realise the truth at a certain age.

There is a great scene in the trailer park boys where Ricky (main character) talking with his dad reveals he believes the big guy in the sky is santa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuLjGoLCshM

Sarky wrote: »

You can't prove that you're NOT Jernal!

Lousy confusing mobile site with its ugly non-Cloud skin...

Jernal Sarky and Galve are the trilogy on boards

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

He also went on to make two sensible suggestions, a) take the preparation out of school, to lessen the pressure on families not really interested in participating from doing so, and b) having young people doing the ceremony at a later age in order that they make an informed decision to have communion/confirmation or not.

Or better still, the government introduces a nationwide enquiry into the church (like Oz), then the church is removed from dealing with children, it's assets seized and the money put to good use in early intervention projects.

They don't even want to let go of their 94% stranglehold on primary schools, no one would go to church if they brought this in. More soundbites

Turtwig · 29-05-2013 4:39pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

Jernal Sarky and Galve are the trilogy on boards

Sarky and me in the one sentence. I think I want die now.

Bannasidhe · 29-05-2013 4:43pm

Jernal wrote: »

Sarky and me in the one sentence. I think I want die now.

Could have been worse. It could have been Jer, Sark and Galve.

Turtwig · 29-05-2013 4:58pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Could have been worse. It could have been Jer, Sark and Galve.

Not really for that one using cognitive dissonance to dissociate my name with the post would have been easier than it is for the one where my full name appears. It's at times likes these I wish I could do the mental gymnastics that others can so easily master.

Vojera · 29-05-2013 5:00pm

I'm now some sort of agnostic, but as a teen I read a lot about other religions and flirted with becoming pagan or maybe Buddhist. The attitude of all the adults around me was "You're far too young to decide on something like that" but they couldn't explain why I was too young to view nature as worthy of worship but doing my confirmation and locking myself into Catholicism a few years earlier was okay.

Bannasidhe · 29-05-2013 5:24pm

Vojera wrote: »

I'm now some sort of agnostic, but as a teen I read a lot about other religions and flirted with becoming pagan or maybe Buddhist. The attitude of all the adults around me was "You're far too young to decide on something like that" but they couldn't explain why I was too young to view nature as worthy of worship but doing my confirmation and locking myself into Catholicism a few years earlier was okay.

Soon to be 7 year old Hermoine (the granddaughter) is in the same position - she can't understand why she is too young to not believe there is a god but is old enough make her communion next year. She is rapidly running out of patience with the people who tell her she will understand when she is older but refuse to tell her why, in that case, she is not making her communion when she is older.
Asked if she wouldn't like to wear a beautiful dress she replied she has a beautiful dress and is planning on wearing it for her birthday and frankly doesn't believe there could possibly be a more beautiful dress than the one she already has...she would like some new shoes.
Asked if she wouldn't like to get loads of money she replied she would like 20 euro to take herself and her brother to Monkey Maze twice but she gets that from her great auntie every birthday anyway...

Penn · 29-05-2013 5:27pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Soon to be 7 year old Hermoine (the granddaughter) is in the same position - she can't understand why she is too young to not believe there is a god but is old enough make her communion next year. She is rapidly running out of patience with the people who tell her she will understand when she is older but refuse to tell her why, in that case, she is not making her communion when she is older.
Asked if she wouldn't like to wear a beautiful dress she replied she has a beautiful dress and is planning on wearing it for her birthday and frankly doesn't believe there could possibly be a more beautiful dress than the one she already has...she would like some new shoes.
Asked if she wouldn't like to get loads of money she replied she would like 20 euro to take herself and her brother to Monkey Maze twice but she gets that from her great auntie every birthday anyway...

Parenting: Your child is doing it right.

Sarky · 29-05-2013 6:00pm

Jernal wrote: »

Sarky and me in the one sentence. I think I want die now.

Obliq · 29-05-2013 6:48pm

Aww Sark....Jer didn't mean you to have a sad face. Galve?- come play with your friends. Everyone will be happy then, eh?

Obliq · 29-05-2013 6:50pm

Penn wrote: »

Parenting: Your child is doing it right.

Love that.

Turtwig · 29-05-2013 6:54pm

Obliq wrote: »

Aww Sark....Jer didn't mean you to have a sad face.

No you're right I didn't. Not a sad a face. A miserable depressed and lonely sad face. :mad:
But sadness will have to satisfy me for now.

Obliq · 29-05-2013 7:13pm

Jernal wrote: »

No you're right I didn't. Not a sad a face. A miserable depressed and lonely sad face. :mad:

Goodness! Something I missed? Mmmhmm, honey it's ok to feel cross. I can see you're mad about something and I don't have to know what it is, ok?! But imagine how you would feel if anyone (not necessarily Sarky...could be anyone!) wanted you to have a miserable depressed and lonely sad face, eh? Try and think about the good times you'll have again....

You guys are so LIKE each other at times :P

Galve???? GALVE?

Obliq · 29-05-2013 7:27pm

Sorry, sorry....been refereeing here at home. Seemed to naturally translate to up here for some reason. :rolleyes:

Bann, your GD sounds like any/every free thinking child that has little or no expectation of the next big thing (nice to see) who has to be persuaded to go through with some ritual they already know is unnecessary - she has a beautiful dress and can't imagine a more beautiful dress. How refreshing is that?!

I shall repeat what my father said to me when I was afraid youngest's father would push for religious indoctrination - "He'll forget it all with his first pint, I wouldn't worry". Not that you're worried, clearly.

MickFleetwood · 29-05-2013 10:45pm

My sister did it a few days ago and she admittedly doesn't believe in God. In this country if you don't partake in it you receive a stigma it seems. You make money, have a bit of a party and a fun day etc. When you go home. I had a laugh with some mates and family on her Confirmation, she made some money and it was a good day.

No need to be cynical about it.

otto_26 · 29-05-2013 10:50pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

A) Christmas is a pagan festival, with origins in Northern Europe. Therefore if you want to talk about stealing it, take the beam from your own eye first.

Jesus wasn't born at christmas. According to the bible the best date for his birthday would be sometime in the Autumn. Shepards do not leave their flocks out on hills in winter, not even in Israel.

Who said anything about stealing it?? I celebrate the religious event of Christmas.. all ways have and always will.. so not sure how it could be stolen

Who said Jesus was born on Christmas day in this thread?? we are on about celebrating a religious event and hypocrites.

otto_26 · 29-05-2013 10:56pm

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I love Christmas. For me it as about spending time with family and friends, showing appreciation with gifts and preparing lovely food. It is a day where families come together and our family celebrates that. The fact we have each other. Has nothing to do with Christianity for us. I adore Christmas Trees, decorating the house, Santa coming etc. I don't care that Christians place religious significance on the day at all. We all have holidays and dinners at each others houses to celebrate friends and family.

I don't know if I've even told my son that Christians think it's Jesus birthday. Might have mentioned it, but he wouldn't care a less so long as Santa is coming. I like Santa because it's a fairytale full of magic, but unlike religion children are expected to realise the truth at a certain age.

Sounds like a lovely way to spend Christmas. What do you and your family do for lent?

Kiwi in IE · 30-05-2013 12:31am

otto_26 wrote: »

Sounds like a lovely way to spend Christmas. What do you and your family do for lent?

Bake loads of tempting goodies, buy nice bottles of wine and offer them to Catholics who come to visit

Seriously? Lent is not something that is even on my radar. I am only ever made aware of its existence if my mother in law tells me she can't have something I have offered her because she has given whatever it is up. Other than that it would come and go without my awareness.

shes_crazy · 30-05-2013 4:41am

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

A) Christmas is a pagan festival, with origins in Northern Europe. Therefore if you want to talk about stealing it, take the beam from your own eye first.

Jesus wasn't born at christmas. According to the bible the best date for his birthday would be sometime in the Autumn. Shepards do not leave their flocks out on hills in winter, not even in Israel.

Do you think historians and biblical scholars aren't aware of your "observations"?

(or maybe you actually believe that the whole house of cards has just come crashing down because you have spoken on the internet)

You do know that Christianity successfully conquered paganism and appropriated its festivals for the greater good?

shruikan2553 · 30-05-2013 6:06am

shes_crazy wrote: »

Do you think historians and biblical scholars aren't aware of your "observations"?

(or maybe you actually believe that the whole house of cards has just come crashing down because you have spoken on the internet)

You do know that Christianity successfully conquered paganism and appropriated its festivals for the greater good?

What was this "greater good"? Saving the filthy pagans from a life of sin?

lazygal · 30-05-2013 8:52am

MickFleetwood wrote: »

My sister did it a few days ago and she admittedly doesn't believe in God. In this country if you don't partake in it you receive a stigma it seems. You make money, have a bit of a party and a fun day etc. When you go home. I had a laugh with some mates and family on her Confirmation, she made some money and it was a good day.

No need to be cynical about it.

I think there's ample room to be cynical about sacraments people take because they'll have a laugh and make some money, rather than because they actually believe in the faith they're signing up to. Of course this is why children of 12 shouldn't be making promises like this in the first place.

Undergod · 30-05-2013 10:46am

Article I saw on reddit: Laois priest suggests not taking sacraments until much later in life.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/delay-communions-until-adulthood-says-priest-232680.html

MickFleetwood · 30-05-2013 11:44am

lazygal wrote: »

I think there's ample room to be cynical about sacraments people take because they'll have a laugh and make some money, rather than because they actually believe in the faith they're signing up to. Of course this is why children of 12 shouldn't be making promises like this in the first place.

When I was younger I vehemently disagreed with my parents about doing my Confirmation because I didn't believe in God. Our class had to take a Pledge and I was the only one in a group of thirty to not take it. My teacher gave out to me of course. :rolleyes:

I was eventually talked into to doing it via money. My viewpoint at the time was along the lines of; Well, I could make a decent bit of money by doing this. So I did it, exclusively for the money.

If you feel that strongly about children who don't believe in God taking the sacraments, do something about it. I asked my sister yesterday, who is a firm atheist, why she did it, she simply stated because she wanted to. Making money is an advantage so my mindset was why not?

lazygal · 30-05-2013 12:26pm

MickFleetwood wrote: »

When I was younger I vehemently disagreed with my parents about doing my Confirmation because I didn't believe in God. Our class had to take a Pledge and I was the only one in a group of thirty to not take it. My teacher gave out to me of course. :rolleyes:

I was eventually talked into to doing it via money. My viewpoint at the time was along the lines of; Well, I could make a decent bit of money by doing this. So I did it, exclusively for the money.

If you feel that strongly about children who don't believe in God taking the sacraments, do something about it. I asked my sister yesterday, who is a firm atheist, why she did it, she simply stated because she wanted to. Making money is an advantage so my mindset was why not?

You posted telling us not to be cynical. I'm merely pointed out the absurdity of telling people not to be cynical when you're posting that the reasons for taking the sacraments are nothing to do with religious faith. I'll be as cynical as I like about scenarios like this.

MickFleetwood · 30-05-2013 1:27pm

lazygal wrote: »

You posted telling us not to be cynical. I'm merely pointed out the absurdity of telling people not to be cynical when you're posting that the reasons for taking the sacraments are nothing to do with religious faith. I'll be as cynical as I like about scenarios like this.

I didn't post telling anybody not to be cynical. :rolleyes: It's not a big deal at all. You seem to be exceedingly defensive about all this. I said there's no need to be cynical. If a few kids taking a sacrament because it's the done thing in Ireland bothers you this much then do something about it.

Bannasidhe · 30-05-2013 1:36pm

MickFleetwood wrote: »

I didn't post telling anybody not to be cynical. :rolleyes: It's not a big deal at all. You seem to be exceedingly defensive about all this. I said there's no need to be cynical. If a few kids taking a sacrament because it's the done thing in Ireland bothers you this much then do something about it.

Perhaps some of us take oaths and vows quite seriously and don't accept that because it is 'the done thing' it is acceptable to lie under oath.

Personally, I think enough damage has been done in this country because people just go along with 'the done thing' with an 'ah sure what's the harm/what can you do eh' attitude - not to mention a collective casual attitude towards telling the truth.

I did do something - I refused to do 'the done thing'.

lazygal · 30-05-2013 1:38pm

MickFleetwood wrote: »

I didn't post telling anybody not to be cynical ... I said there's no need to be cynical.

I've nothing to be defensive about. My children won't be doing sacraments at inappropriate ages - if they want to take on a religion when they're old enough, that's up to them. Nothing defensive about that.

Of course, I'd rather not have no choice but to send them to school with the nice day out, laugh and money brigade, which is why I'm a strong advocate for a secular school system. But maybe that doesn't count as 'doing something about it'. For the laugh.

oldrnwisr · 30-05-2013 1:45pm

shes_crazy wrote: »

You do know that Christianity successfully conquered paganism and appropriated its festivals for the greater good?

Usually its a good idea to support your claim with evidence rather than restate it. It helps to advance the overall debate.

In any case, I'm not really sure that your argument has any merit, particularly worded as it is.

The first point is that Christianity doesn't really conquer anything. It incorporates. It is a syncretic religion. You can still see this in the incorporation of Sumerian, Akkadian, Egyptian, Greek and other myths into biblical stories. Conquering would imply that Christianity has an inherent uniqueness which allows it to wipe out indigenous beliefs. However, the appeal of Christianity, certainly for the first 1000 years, was its syncretism, its ability to incorporate the pre-existing stories of the indigenous peoples which gave it a certain familiarity while similarly demonstrating its superiority. The Bible even does this to itself in places. In 2 Kings 4 Elisha heals a comatose boy. In Mark 5, the story is retold with Jesus raising Jairus' daughter from the dead. So the story is familiar to those who read it while at the same time showing Jesus' superiority to Elisha.

The second point is that I'm not really sure that successful is an appropriate term for the spread of Christianity. Firstly, as it stands right now there are about 2 billion christians in the world out of a total of 7+ billion, so Christianity hardly dominates. Secondly, if you are referring to replacing indigenous religions, the Christians took their sweet time about it. Even just taking northern Europe as an example, while Christianity reached Northern Europe in the latter half of the first millennium, it didn't really gain any traction for about 400 years or so and even then belief in the Norse gods and other elements of Norse mythology survived into the 20th century. Finally, right now there are over 1 million followers of paganism in the world and its numbers are continuing to grow. Paganism has seen a resurgence since the 1930s and particularly with the decline of Christianity in Europe so all in all I'm not sure that successful is how I'd describe it.

Finally, you refer to the spread of Christianity as some sort of greater good. Would you care to explain this phrase? I mean, after all, all Christianity did was swap out one set of myths and creation stories for another. Nothing particularly good about that. It's not like the Christian moral code was a big improvement over existing civilisations (e.g. pre-Christian Ireland) either. So I fail to see what is good about the spread of Christianity at the expense of indigenous religions.

marienbad · 30-05-2013 5:45pm

shes_crazy wrote: »

Do you think historians and biblical scholars aren't aware of your "observations"?

(or maybe you actually believe that the whole house of cards has just come crashing down because you have spoken on the internet)

You do know that Christianity successfully conquered paganism and appropriated its festivals for the greater good?

The mind boggles at such tripe ! I suppose this is what indoctrination does to people.

Doctor Strange · 30-05-2013 5:55pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

What was this "greater good"? Saving the filthy pagans from a life of sin?

Galvasean · 30-05-2013 6:28pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

Jernal Sarky and Galve are the trilogy on boards

Didn't realise I was held in such high regard. Everybody had a canniption fit when I was away.... That's nice. FWIW I had a job interview (got it - ya'all can worship me now) and a match (we won - continue worshiping) so didn't have much internet time yesterday.

On topic:

Somebody says the most cynical thing imaginable then asks people not be be cynical... I love you internet

shes_crazy · 30-05-2013 7:19pm

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Usually its a good idea to support your claim with evidence rather than restate it. It helps to advance the overall debate.

In any case, I'm not really sure that your argument has any merit, particularly worded as it is.

The first point is that Christianity doesn't really conquer anything. It incorporates. It is a syncretic religion. You can still see this in the incorporation of Sumerian, Akkadian, Egyptian, Greek and other myths into biblical stories. Conquering would imply that Christianity has an inherent uniqueness which allows it to wipe out indigenous beliefs. However, the appeal of Christianity, certainly for the first 1000 years, was its syncretism, its ability to incorporate the pre-existing stories of the indigenous peoples which gave it a certain familiarity while similarly demonstrating its superiority. The Bible even does this to itself in places. In 2 Kings 4 Elisha heals a comatose boy. In Mark 5, the story is retold with Jesus raising Jairus' daughter from the dead. So the story is familiar to those who read it while at the same time showing Jesus' superiority to Elisha.

The second point is that I'm not really sure that successful is an appropriate term for the spread of Christianity. Firstly, as it stands right now there are about 2 billion christians in the world out of a total of 7+ billion, so Christianity hardly dominates. Secondly, if you are referring to replacing indigenous religions, the Christians took their sweet time about it. Even just taking northern Europe as an example, while Christianity reached Northern Europe in the latter half of the first millennium, it didn't really gain any traction for about 400 years or so and even then belief in the Norse gods and other elements of Norse mythology survived into the 20th century. Finally, right now there are over 1 million followers of paganism in the world and its numbers are continuing to grow. Paganism has seen a resurgence since the 1930s and particularly with the decline of Christianity in Europe so all in all I'm not sure that successful is how I'd describe it.

Finally, you refer to the spread of Christianity as some sort of greater good. Would you care to explain this phrase? I mean, after all, all Christianity did was swap out one set of myths and creation stories for another. Nothing particularly good about that. It's not like the Christian moral code was a big improvement over existing civilisations (e.g. pre-Christian Ireland) either. So I fail to see what is good about the spread of Christianity at the expense of indigenous religions.

Long-winded faf.

The fact is that Christianity is culturally superior to anything that atheism has ever produced. This cultural superiority did not come about by accident. It is based on a set of core Truths that have been rejected by many sorry (and now helpless) souls down throughout the ages. In this regard <snip> despite how hip and cool today's atheists think they are [nothing new] <snip>

I suggest a trip to Rome where you can see for yourself the rich history and cultural influence the Catholic Church has had over Europe and the world as a whole. There you will see how Christianity successfully defeated slavery, debauchery and death of old and brought about order, structure and beauty for millions of people down throughout the ages. This continues today and its momentum is far greater than anything atheism can get going.

Anyway, for someone who has obviously had the benefit of a Christian influence on his life; <snip>atheists have some neck to go it alone.<snip>.

The Black Oil · 30-05-2013 7:24pm

Are you looking to sub for John Waters when he goes on holidays?

Turtwig · 30-05-2013 7:39pm

She's Crazy. Your opinion is welcome here; direct personal comments on another poster aren't. Please don't do it any more. Otherwise you may find yourself taking a holiday.
Thanks,

marienbad · 30-05-2013 7:40pm

shes_crazy wrote: »

Long-winded faf.

The fact is that Christianity is culturally superior to anything that atheism has ever produced. This cultural superiority did not come about by accident. It is based on a set of core Truths that have been rejected by many sorry (and now helpless) souls down throughout the ages. In this regard <snip> despite how hip and cool today's atheists think they are [nothing new] <snip>

I suggest a trip to Rome where you can see for yourself the rich history and cultural influence the Catholic Church has had over Europe and the world as a whole. There you will see how Christianity successfully defeated slavery, debauchery and death of old and brought about order, structure and beauty for millions of people down throughout the ages. This continues today and its momentum is far greater than anything atheism can get going.

Anyway, for someone who has obviously had the benefit of a Christian influence on his life; <snip>atheists have some neck to go it alone.<snip>.

Tell me how it defeated slavery ?

And after that you might enlighten me on the rich history and cultural influence. And I would like to remind you The Da Vinci and Michelangelo were great because they were great and not because they were Christian.

shes_crazy · 30-05-2013 7:47pm

marienbad wrote: »

Tell me how it defeated slavery ?

And after that you might enlighten me on the rich history and cultural influence. And I would like to remind you The Da Vinci and Michelangelo were great because they were great and not because they were Christian.

Revisionist twaddle. I suppose you're a Colosseum-denier too? One is left wondering what else you deny...

Pherekydes · 30-05-2013 7:48pm

marienbad wrote: »

Tell me how it defeated slavery ?

I'm sure many women who were enslaved in the Magdalen laundries would disagree that it had.

Debauchery: yep, they mastered that too.

Death: How has the church defeated death? Noah and his many buddies of the Old Testament routinely lived to over 900 years of age. Since Christianity arrived, the record is about 120-130 years.

Communions/confirmations, utter farce?

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