Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

JRant · 29-02-2012 1:34pm

leftleg wrote: »

jm08 wrote: »

i think sexton is fine starting with any sh and is beyond the stage of needing reddan to hold his hand. sexton and murray are the future , so they need to play together when they can.

Even if they dont seem to play well together; i do agree that they are the future; still doesn't hide the fact they both seem to play awful on the same team for whatever reason.

Well if your SH doesn't know what he's going to do when he gets the ball how is the OH supposed to.

Rattlehead_ie · 29-02-2012 1:35pm

.ak wrote: »

When's the squad announcement? 1pm?

1.15pm to be exact.
Honestly, I see Murray as the future SH for Ireland, same way as Sexton is at number 10. Thats not to say that for e.g ROG doesn't have qualities that would make him 1st choice 10 in certain games against certain opposition.

Same with Redden. Honestly against this French team. My choices Redden/Boss.
Redden brings your speed. (whether you chose this at the start or sub)
Boss brings your physicality.

Both are more experience and know how to control their backrow and the backline. Yes Murray wont get experience if he isn't on, but for this French side and the way they play and their very weakness I'd have chosen the other 2 SH.

leftleg · 29-02-2012 1:38pm

ill probably be crucified for this but why isnt Boss playing or even near the squad??
Heaps of experience, a good eye for a break, strong and physical and a great passer; whats not to like?? opinions please

irishbucsfan · 29-02-2012 1:43pm

There was plenty of rotation between O'Gara and Sexton when Sexton was breaking through. There is none between Reddan and Murray.

Couple this with the fact that Ireland have only played well since 09 when Reddan and Sexton have played together on the field. A partnership that has never played 2 games in a row for Ireland.

Couple this with the fact O'Mahoney leaped straight into international rugby in a matter of months when Sean O'Brien was stuck behind a massively out of form and unfit Denis Leamy despite SOB being in the middle of an award winning season. Especially dodgy when you consider POM was conveniently omitted from the most recent Wolfhounds team, in case he be shown up by those players that his eventual inclusion would be at the expense of.

Couple THAT with Buckley/Hayes being selected in 3/3 games in the 2010 AIs ahead of a greatly in-form Mike Ross, despite Hayes being clearly past it and Buckley not having a clue what "it" is.

There seems to be something in common between the players who benefit from Declan Kidney's most glaring selection errors.

Trevor Kent · 29-02-2012 1:47pm

Wot!

http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/rugby_irish/88869/

Brian O’Driscoll returns to training
James Clancy, 29 February 2012 Brian O’Driscoll has made a return to the training field having been confined to rehabilitation and gym work after a shoulder operation last November.

Having played through the pain at the 2011 World Cup in New Zealand, O’Driscoll decided to go under the knife to put an end to the ‘stinger’ injury which has affected him for years.

While it was initially anticipated that the Irish captain would be out of action for the remainder of the season, his recovery to date suggests a possible return in April. While he admitted his skills had suffered from the lengthy absence from the game, he was pleased to be back on the training ground with his Leinster teammates.

“On Monday I went into training and the lads were in good spirits; Leinster have managed two wins and a draw during the Six Nations so far,” O’Driscoll wrote on irishrugby.ie. ”The international contingent also came in and they were very upbeat after the victory against Italy. It’s great to get some pitch time and train with other players rather than the coaches. It did remind me though how far I have to go, even down to skills and relearning defensive systems and calls. And no, I am not getting any special treatment in terms of the physical aspect of things, although there was no contact work during this session.”

jm08 · 29-02-2012 2:03pm

leftleg wrote: »

ill probably be crucified for this but why isnt Boss playing or even near the squad??
Heaps of experience, a good eye for a break, strong and physical and a great passer; whats not to like?? opinions please

I think its a case of the less you see of a player the better they are:pac:

leftleg · 29-02-2012 2:05pm

jm08 wrote: »

I think its a case of the less you see of a player the better they are:pac:

Really Ive seen alot of his performances and I liked alot of them; My question was why he isn't being selected or even at the training ground.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 29-02-2012 2:09pm

leftleg wrote: »

Really Ive seen alot of his performances and I liked alot of them; My question was why he isn't being selected or even at the training ground.

He started for the WHs so if there is an injury to a scrumhalf he most likely is next to be called up since there are only 2 SHs in the squad.

In Leinster there are two SHs both for different styles a great passer (redden) and a good passer who is more physical and a threat on the break (boss).

Redden got called up as the passer rightly and Murray as the more physical option rightly or wrongly and I can understand why even though I think he needs more experience to help his decision making before he will be right at international level.

jm08 · 29-02-2012 2:09pm

leftleg wrote: »

Really Ive seen alot of his performances and I liked alot of them; My question was why he isn't being selected or even at the training ground.

How did he go against Montpellier in france. can't remember. schmidt seems to prefer him away from home against french teams.

leftleg · 29-02-2012 2:11pm

jm08 wrote: »

schmidt seems to prefer him away from home against french teams.

Exactly; why he is he not being used??

jm08 · 29-02-2012 2:16pm

leftleg wrote: »

Exactly; why he is he not being used??

he played for the wolfhounds, didn't he. mustn't have impressed.

in the ireland-connacht game in the world cup warmup, he started and murray came on ... murray was streets ahead of him in that game and boss looked really disappoined when he came off as he thought he had blown his chance of getting to the world cup.

How well did he perform against montpellier?

bossa_nova · 29-02-2012 2:22pm

....No change from last week, would have atleast thought Ryan would start:(

Pudsy33 · 29-02-2012 2:23pm

Same team, I've officially lost my faith in Deccie.

.ak · 29-02-2012 2:23pm

What an absolute farce.

shuffol · 29-02-2012 2:25pm

And so it goes on for another week.

thomond2006 · 29-02-2012 2:25pm

Well done Deccie, successful troll is successful.

leftleg · 29-02-2012 2:25pm

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Same team, I've officially lost my faith in Deccie.

You actually had faith in Eddie with a slap head!!

.ak · 29-02-2012 2:26pm

jm08 wrote: »

he played for the wolfhounds, didn't he. mustn't have impressed.

in the ireland-connacht game in the world cup warmup, he started and murray came on ... murray was streets ahead of him in that game and boss looked really disappoined when he came off as he thought he had blown his chance of getting to the world cup.

How well did he perform against montpellier?

Murray looked like a headless chicken in that game.

... atleast he was fast I suppose. Boss looked solid I thought.

MungBean · 29-02-2012 2:26pm

I think we can stick a pin in Deccie at this stage. He hasnt a bulls notion of what he's doing.

leftleg · 29-02-2012 2:28pm

.ak wrote: »

Boss looked solid I thought.

Yeah so thats why hes not being picked so; thanks for answering my question so

Pudsy33 · 29-02-2012 2:28pm

I am eternally optimistic and try to see the best in the lads, but Doc and Murray should not be in the 15. Its plain to see Ryan and Reddan have more to give.

shuffol · 29-02-2012 2:28pm

Maybe its all a grand scheme between Kidney and Hugh Farrelly to put an end to online forums, its been deserted here the last few squad announcements.

jm08 · 29-02-2012 2:29pm

.ak wrote: »

Murray looked like a headless chicken in that game.

... atleast he was fast I suppose. Boss looked solid I thought.

ah, i get it now .;)

Tox56 · 29-02-2012 2:30pm

Most of the team picks itself and that is fair enough I suppose.

The selection of Murray can at least be put down to giving youth a chance, building a relationship with Sexton.

But how on EARTH is DOC still in the 22, nevermind starting. I just simply cannot understand.

Otacon · 29-02-2012 2:31pm

Kidney's consistent, I'll give him that.

Disappointed that there were no changes but my ideal team had only two changes [DR for DOC, ER for CM] so I'm relatively happy.

GWAN IRELAND

Mr.Applepie · 29-02-2012 2:31pm

The lions 22 for the 1st test if Deccie gets the job. You heard it here first:

British & Irish Lions (vs South AfricaAustralia, 3rd1st Test)

15 Rob Kearney (Leinster / Ireland)
14 Ugo Monye (Harlequins / England)
13 Tommy Bowe (Ospreys / Ireland)
12 Riki Flutey (London Wasps / England)
11 Shane Williams (Ospreys / Wales)
10 Stephen Jones (Scarlets / Wales)
9 Mike Phillips (Ospreys / Wales)

8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster / Ireland)
7 Martyn Williams (Cardiff Blues / Wales)
6 Joe Worsley (London Wasps / England)
5 Paul O’Connell (Munster / Ireland, Captain)
4 Simon Shaw (London Wasps / England)
3 Phil Vickery (London Wasps / England)
2 Matthew Rees (Scarlets / Wales)
1 Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks / England)

Replacements

16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh / Scotland)
17 John Hayes (Munster / Ireland)
18 Alun-Wyn Jones (Ospreys / Wales)
19 David Wallace (Munster / Ireland)
20 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers / England)
21 Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers / England)
22 James Hook (Ospreys / Wales)

brash_piano · 29-02-2012 2:32pm

Disappointing to see that there are no changes. One begins to wonder what more Donnacha Ryan can do to get selected, the mind really boggles. I think it's a fair comment to say that DOC does a lot of the unseen work; if you take unseen work as a euphemism for non-existent work. I think he's seriously handcapping the team as we're effectively playing with 14 men, albeit getting by with super-human performances from O'Connell. I don't think O'Callaghan is lazy but his reading of the game is poor and he seems to react so late that he renders himself ineffective.

The question regarding Murray is more complicated but to my eyes Ireland have played the best rugby of Kidney's tenure against England in last year's 6N and in WC against Australia. Reddan played a big part in these performances, though you have to keep in mind that both team and coaches had their backs against the all for both these fixtures also.

I wonder will we start to see dissension within the squad now, the players aren't idiots and they must be asking questions when form players aren't getting selected.

Slightly OT, I'm really starting to lose faith in Gerry Thornley now. For so long a bastion of sense and fairness, it's discouraging to see him act as an advocate for Kidney's selection and stewardship rather than provide cold-headed critique and analysis. It seems like Kidney gets very little sensible critique (i.e. critique not emerging from Montrose) and that this is not a healthy situation. Would be interesting to know what others though of this.

Hope we can put in a performance this weekend but it will be against the odds if we do.

leftleg · 29-02-2012 2:33pm

.ak wrote: »

Murray looked like a headless chicken in that game.

You mean like this

MungBean · 29-02-2012 2:33pm

leftleg wrote: »

Yeah so thats why hes not being picked so; thanks for answering my question so

He wasnt picked because Kidney decided to gamble on Murray. A gamble that didnt pay off, still isnt paying off and yet Kidney and other Murray fans cant seem to realise that he should never have been in the damn team in the first place.

He should be competing with (and would be losing to) Marshall for the bench spot this year. Instead he went to the world cup as starting SH, shows Kidneys ignorance more so than any lack of ability or form on Boss's part.

shuffol · 29-02-2012 2:34pm

Otacon wrote: »

Kidney's consistent, I'll give him that.

Disappointed that there were no changes but my ideal team had only two changes [DR for DOC, ER for CM] so I'm relatively happy.

GWAN IRELAND

Oi! less of the optimism

.ak · 29-02-2012 2:34pm

He's being stubborn at this stage. He's basically saying 'I picked Murray and I was right in doing so. You'll see... eventually'.

The problem is Murray's gameplan is going to be seriously questioned by the French. He'll probably have a shocker, and what will that do his confidence? Que two or three years before he gets into the stride of things.

leakyboots · 29-02-2012 2:34pm

Pudsy33 wrote: »

I am eternally optimistic and try to see the best in the lads, but Doc and Murray should not be in the 15. Its plain to see Ryan and Reddan have more to give.

Good case for Ryan and Reddan being involved alright but that French backrow would run through Reddan all day. If Murray ups the pace of his game he'll be fine. DOC hasn't done an awful lot wrong in his appearances to be fair, but I'd still start Ryan. At least Ryan gives us massive impact off the bench.

I don't know how many other changes people would have made - this is Paris after all.

If he names the same side for Scotland I'll despair more.

leftleg · 29-02-2012 2:34pm

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

The lions 22 for the 1st test if Deccie gets the job. You heard it here first:

British & Irish Lions (vs South AfricaAustralia, 3rd1st Test)

15 Rob Kearney (Leinster / Ireland)
14 Ugo Monye (Harlequins / England)
13 Tommy Bowe (Ospreys / Ireland)
12 Riki Flutey (London Wasps / England)
11 Shane Williams (Ospreys / Wales)
10 Stephen Jones (Scarlets / Wales)
9 Mike Phillips (Ospreys / Wales) Conor Murray

8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster / Ireland)
7 Martyn Williams (Cardiff Blues / Wales)
6 Joe Worsley (London Wasps / England)
5 Paul O’Connell (Munster / Ireland, Captain)
4 Simon Shaw (London Wasps / England) DOC
3 Phil Vickery (London Wasps / England)
2 Matthew Rees (Scarlets / Wales)
1 Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks / England)

Replacements

16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh / Scotland)
17 John Hayes (Munster / Ireland)
18 Alun-Wyn Jones (Ospreys / Wales) D Ryan
19 David Wallace (Munster / Ireland)
20 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers / England)
21 Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers / England)
22 James Hook (Ospreys / Wales)

Fixed that for ya; your welcome

leftleg · 29-02-2012 2:36pm

leakyboots wrote: »

I don't know how many other changes people would have made - this is Paris after all.

Eh hello; POM at 7; D Ryan at 8; for starters....(joking of course)

andyman · 29-02-2012 2:37pm

The Murray selection I don't really have a huge issue with, tbh. I thought he played well against Wales and was off the pace against Italy. Shouldn't be an instant dropping imo.

O'Callaghan, on the other hand...

Luckycharm · 29-02-2012 2:37pm

Fair play great Message to send out to the Squad basically telling them no matter how good your form is you have no Chance of starting unless a player gets injured :rolleyes:

.ak · 29-02-2012 2:38pm

leftleg wrote: »

You mean like this

That's him.

But in all seriousness, he was forcing his game that day. There was a big question mark over who Kidders would bring to the WC, and he was in no means sure of getting a spot. Infact, we all dreaded TOL would be first choice. I remember at the time thinking 'What is at? He's literally throwing his body on the line, no regard for his safety... it's a fricken friendly with Connacht'. He didn't actually do any of SH duties that day. I do remember thinking it was good that we had a player that was so up for the physical contact, but now it seems to be his downfall.

MungBean · 29-02-2012 2:38pm

.ak wrote: »

He's being stubborn at this stage. He's basically saying 'I picked Murray and I was right in doing so. You'll see... eventually'.

The problem is Murray's gameplan is going to be seriously questioned by the French. He'll probably have a shocker, and what will that do his confidence? Que two or three years before he gets into the stride of things.

Thats how Kidney operates, Ryan cant get into the 15 not because he hasnt earned it but because DOC has done nothing to be dropped. Same with Murray and Earls, doesnt matter if theres someone better that could be starting Kidney wont drop anyone unless they do something to be dropped.

All nice and friendly and all but it doesnt win matches because our best players can never make the damn team.

Fishooks12 · 29-02-2012 2:38pm

Joke shop selection

While Murray won't be the winning or losing of the game for us I still think it's a slap in the face for Reddan, not to mention D Ryan

Tox56 · 29-02-2012 2:40pm

I know it is hypothetical, but how many coaches on this planet would have picked this team after the last few matches in this 6 Nations?

.ak · 29-02-2012 2:41pm

Tox56 wrote: »

I know it is hypothetical, but how many coaches on this planet would have picked this team after the last few matches in this 6 Nations?

Not even EoS.

MungBean · 29-02-2012 2:43pm

shaungil · 29-02-2012 2:45pm

Just turning into the Untouchables again. We'll have one great performance in this 6 N's, like we've done against Australia in World Cup England to scupper their Grand Slam it could be sunday but I don't think so.

For me Kidney has not moved with the times he picks players based on what they do when we don't have the ball. More afraid of not losing then trying to win. I worry for Sunday but of course c'mon Ireland

cgpg5 · 29-02-2012 2:53pm

Absolute joke. Ryan did more in the first 5 minutes he came on againts Italy than Doc did all game. And Murray starting again? Laughable. We could get stuffed in this game..

totallegend · 29-02-2012 2:54pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Joke shop selection

While Murray won't be the winning or losing of the game for us I still think it's a slap in the face for Reddan, not to mention D Ryan

Reddan will be well used to it, I have lost track of the number of times he has been dropped or snubbed by Kidney at this stage and I can only conclude there's something more than rugby behind it.

At least DK could argue that Murray is one for the future and Reddan is being kept out by a younger guy who is first choice for his province. What is the logic for Ryan's exclusion? DOC will, of course, "do a job" for us but at what stage does "doing a job" not hack it any more, when there are better guys on the bench or not in the squad at all? Likewise, would have liked to see McFadden start at 12.

One assumes that win or lose, there will have to be changes for the Scotland game. Won't there?

.ak · 29-02-2012 2:55pm

The only thing to look forward to now is Thomond's review. Then onto the weekend where we'll be schooled by a French team still regrouping. Yay.

Mr.Applepie · 29-02-2012 2:55pm

.ak wrote: »

Not even EoS.

Yeah but that because he was only version 1. EOS v2.0 is a vastly improved product with some exciting new advancements:

All new Waffle engine. Can say the same thing using slightly different words indefinitely.
Increased gameplan effeciency by 33% - now only uses 10 men.
Increased consistency - Fixed the bug requiring the need to make occasional changes
Improved Selection Criteria - Now have a luscious mop of black hair ala DOC & Murray will be cause for automatic selection

Cpt_Blackbeard · 29-02-2012 2:58pm

Disappointed to not see form rewarded but, two contentious decisions is hardly call for the wide scale meltdown we'll surely see.

We've picked our most physical team to try and batter the French for the first 50. We'll then see the dynamism of Cronin, Ryan, POM and Reddan spring from the bench to up the tempo. Whether it's the right way to approach the match we won't know until the weekend but, I will say that starting a game away in Paris with the intentions to play fast and loose is suicide.

When the Scotland/England match rolls around we'll then know if he team is picked to play a certain game plan or if Kidney just picks his first XV for every match.

.ak · 29-02-2012 3:01pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Disappointed to not see form rewarded but, two contentious decisions is hardly call for the wide scale meltdown we'll surely see.

We've picked our most physical team to try and batter the French for the first 50. We'll then see the dynamism of Cronin, Ryan, POM and Reddan spring from the bench to up the tempo. Whether it's the right way to approach the match we won't know until the weekend but, I will say that starting a game away in Paris with the intentions to play fast and loose is suicide.

When the Scotland/England match rolls around we'll then know if he team is picked to play a certain game plan or if Kidney just picks his first XV for every match.

How can we batter the french in the first 50 without quick tempo? We need our quick ball to runners coming deep, smash the French upfront and then go wide at any chance to tire the French legs.

That just won't happen with Murray. He'll take an age to get the ball out, give it to a first reciever at a close distance, pick and go for a few phases, and box kick repeat.

Killser · 29-02-2012 3:01pm

More dissapointment! EoS got grief for pickin the same team over and over again, now Kidney is at it. DOC - the penalty machine - in again ahead of DR, unreal. ER not on from start is worrying for two reasons. Murray will be good, maybe even a great SH, but needs more field time to learn his craft, his setup and delivery are too slow for International level. Secondly, we have set ourselves out to defend. French will have no bother biding their time waiting for the chance to come then bang, 2-3 tries in the first half and we'll be chasing the game. For once, cant we just have a go - like I always say, what's the attitude, where's the performance?

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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