Fernando Torres

His general play has been very good during his goal shortages imo. His movement and link up play is far better than Ba imo and he still has the potential to catch fire and have another big season if he's trusted, which he wont be at Chelsea when they bring in whatever striker they will this Summer.

Morzadec wrote: »

Torres can rightly feel pleased with himself tonight.

However, the point still stands. Torres is finished at the very top level.

Many will point out he's had a decent season - 25 goals in all comps isn't too shabby.

I would tip Chelsea for the league next year if they signed Cavani and had Mourinho at the helm. With Torres or Ba leading the line they will fall at least 10 points short.

I disagree. He still has a lot to offer other than goals. He's experienced in basically every major final, club and international, his link up play and hold up play is brilliant. He's not as good in front of goal as he was (granted I still think this is his 2nd best season in terms of goals?) but still has a bit of quality about him. I think Cavani is better than Torres but Cavani has been sick for the last few years for Napoli, ridiculously consistent.

The thing about Torres is that he had 1 really top season and then got sold for a ridiculously inflated price tag. He's always been decent but then when he was sold for £50m everyone expect him to shít goals at Chelsea but that was never going to happen, he got off to an awful start but has pretty much been standard Torres for the past 1 and a half years. He should age well enough too because he's not that fast anyway.

I don't know if he has a future at Chelsea or not. I'd like to think he does because I enjoy watching him play in England. With Lukaku, Ba and potentially Cavani going to Chelsea in the summer then it's hard to know where he fits in. Lukaku will probably be loaned out again, Ba won't be going anywhere and I don't think Torres would be happy playing 2nd fiddle or even 3rd fiddle with a World Cup around the corner.

The thing Torres is better at than all of the players you listed (or at least his track record), in my opinion, is his consistency in front of goal in the big games. Scored in the Euro cup final 2008 and 2012 (including winning the golden boot), for example. For Chelsea he scored last year against Barca in the semi and again tonight. He always takes his chances in the big games well like tonight even if he's not as prolific a goalscorer as Chelsea might have liked him to be. RVP I don't recall scoring much in big games outside of the league despite how good he is (I stand to be corrected but I don't think he scored in the knockout stages of the world cup when Netherlands got to the final, or in the knockout stages of the CL when Arsenal got to the final (might have been injured for some maybe?)). Torres mightn't be as big game a player as Drogba but he is consistent as my piss is yellow on the big stage.

corcaigh07 wrote: »

"He should age well enough too because he's not that fast anyway."

Are you mad, he had a devastating turn of pace before his bout of injuries. He has already "aged" badly, he should be in his prime now but injuries have prevented that happening and he seems unable to adjust his game accordingly, something like Michael Owen.

However, he could tear it up in another league where physicality isn't as important. The fact that he is still doing well on a European level could be a sign of that possibility.

Yeah, years ago he had pace (Vidic will remember it well). He had a bout of injuries (i.e. hamstring issues) and lost a bit of pace but since then, and in particular this year, he has filled out a bit and has a lot more strength which he uses to shrug people off the ball as he did tonight for the opener. It's one of the reasons his first year was such a flop IMO, and there's not many scrawny lone strikers who hold the ball up well.

I don't think he's aged badly at all. Hampered with injuries, yeah, but they weren't age-related. He's re-adapted, more so to suit Chelsea's style than anything else, and he's still a very effective player. That's why I don't think he'll age badly. I think he's adjusted his game well so I disagree with you there. His goal return and performances under Rafa suggest he's at least close to what he used to be, albeit in a slightly different role which requires different attributes.

Lol quarryman

We already have Lukaku, spending stupid money on Falcao or Cavani would be a waste IMO.

With Lukaku, Ba and Torres we'll be well served next year.

I'd more focus on buying a CB then another CF.

The only way I can see a Cavani or Falcao come in is if we off load Torres and I cant see clubs knocking on the door for him even though hes probably playing his best stuff for us since joining.

22 goals this season , not bad , will be used as the no.2 striker next year i reckon

FFP and value are just 2 things blocking us going spending the world on a Cavani or Falcao.

Look at the strikers that Roman has bought, its a long list and not very notable, he may not want to spend big money unless the new guy coming in can convince we need a CF to fire us to the top.

Lukaku
Torres
Sturridge
Bamford
Sheva
Kezman
Mutu
Drogba
Crespo
Pizarro
Anelka
Di Santo
Sahar

If Jose does come in I'd expect him to go and get his own striker, who it will be is anyones guess and will the board allow it.

Morzadec wrote: »

But there, you say it yourself - he's not as good as Cavani and Cavani has been ridiculously good these last few years.

A team of Chelsea's expectations and finances need a player like this leading their line, not someone of Torres' ability.

Chelsea should be up there with the European heavyweights - United, Barca, Madrid.

They need that absolutely top class goalscorer to do so. Where would United have been this season with a player of Torres' ability replacing RVP? 7 goals in the league is way too few despite whatever good build-up play he's been involved in.

Also the point about Torres ageing well - he has already aged badly. Perhaps he isn't going to age any worse as he adapts his game to the pace he has lost, but injuries (and perhaps other factors) have already made him a far poorer player. Did you watch him at Liverpool? He was a different player. He had pace to burn and used it consistently to become probably the most feared striker in the Premier League.

Liverpool - 65 goals in 102 Premier League games
Chelsea - 14 goals in 84 Premier League games

In other words he's gone from a better than 1 goals in 2 games striker to about 1 in 6.

I agree with most of that but I don't agree he's aged badly. He's just had his second best season in terms of goal return this year. Your stats are skewed due to how bad he was when he first arrived in January which could be attributed to a multitude of factors which were likely mental rather than physical, in my opinion.

Chelsea, with Torres, have had more success in Europe than United have had with RVP. Chelsea are more of a European heavyweight than United are. Benzema leads the line for Madrid, he's not much better than Torres if at all. Chelsea would do better with a Cavani, Lewandowski or Falcao simply because they are in a tier of awaesome players below Messi and Ronaldo. A couple of centre backs would serve Chelsea better than getting a 4th striker... but then again they're Chelsea so they may as well go wild.

Morzadec wrote: »

1) A lot of goals have come in the Europa League, which is not a priority trophy for Chelsea, and, if we're perfectly honest, is not even a trophy Chelsea should be competing in. Like all of Chelsea's squad, he will be judged first and foremost on his performance in the EPL and CL. He's fallen short again in these important competitions, way below the standards expected of a team of Chelsea's recent achievements and finances.

A lot of Chelsea's issues have been managerial (albeit through the fault of the more senior players and Abramovich). Torres has been decent this year in all competitions imo. His goal return could be better but he's still played well.

2) Not really true. United qualified from the group stage - Chelsea did not. United unluckily went out to one of the best teams in Europe. Cheslea beat a bunch of teams they would be expected to beat in the Europa League. Sample size is very small too.

Chelsea won the champions league last year and Torres had quite a bit to say in that win even if he played a bit part for the semis and final. United got knocked out in the last 16 and RVP wasn't particularly good, he fluffed a decent chance IIRC. United got knocked out by Bilbao last year (no RVP but I'm not just comparing the two, RVP is better anyway) and City didn't do well either, it's still a hard competition to win and Torres played a massive part in Chelsea winning it this year even if they shouldn't be in it in the first place.

3) Personally I rate Higuain better than Benzema and both better than Torres. But I totally agree with what you say, and I have been saying it for the last 3 years or so - a team of Madrid's financial clout and profile should have a farbetter CF leading the line. In fact their case is similar to Chelsea's. What Madrid do have is a player like Ronaldo who is capable of scoring 50 goals a season. I still think Madrid should try to sign one of the world's top strikers but their situation is relieved quite a lot by Ronaldo's prolific scoring.

Agreed.

4) Here you agree Chelsea would do better with the likes of Lewandowski or Cavani - so I don't really know what the debate is! Maybe Chelsea could do with a CB too (I'm not sure - seems like they have 4 very decent CBs at the moment), they could certainly do with upgrading Mikel. But this doesn't mean they can't sign a striker as well. This is Chelsea we're talking about. Surely they will have at least a £50m budget. They could probably boost that by about £10m of sales. Buy a world class striker for £45m, a very good defensive mid for £15m, add Mourinho and you have a squad easily capable of winning the league.

Not much of a debate alright, basically fairly unanimous agreement with minor differences of opinion :P I agree with Mikel as well, I posted above that Jose is reported to want to bring Khedira to Chelsea so that would solve that issue. Chelsea have bigger problems than Torres because they have other players like Hazard, Lampard and Mata who will get 10+ goals a season each, maybe even Oscar will start reaching those figures soon.

They need a centre back or two more than they need a striker I think. Granted the difference Cavani would make would be massive but if it was a choice between 2 centre backs and a striker if I was a Chelsea fan I'd rather the 2 centre backs. Lukaku and Ba have around ~15 goals a year for lesser clubs so no reason why they can't push on to 20+. Terry is still quality but he's injured a good bit, Luiz doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes defensively so should be pushed up to midfield, Cahill is suspect and Ivanovic seems to do his best stuff from full back. Even with Mourinho and no signings they should be challenging next year.

All this discussion is rather pointless anyway because they can just buy centre backs, a defensive midfielder and a striker it's not like they have to choose

Oh dear.

Always feel conflicted when I see Torres. Loved him as a Liverpool player and hate for what he did to us. Never wanted to see him score for a rival, but my heart goes out to him when it's clear his confidence is shattered.