Commissioner Callinan resigns with immediate effect

It's looking like a general election, the **** is hitting the fan, shatter won't sleep tonight!

ubercool wrote: »

What's going on?

Vacencies in the following jobs next week

Garda commissioner
Minister for justice
Attorney general
Taoiseach
Janitor in the Dail

Kinzig wrote: »

Good God dont be tainting the janitor!

He'll never go back after the clean up job he'll have this week!

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I agree 100% with you there. A good broom is needed.

Any old brush will do when you want to paint everyone with the same brush

bravestar wrote: »

Their mandate has nothing to do with their attitude while conducting themselves.

I haven`t heard or read anything about their attitude conducting themselves other than what I`ve seen with regards to the bugging controversy, and from what I could see they were the only party to come out of that with any credit.
Maybe I`ve missed something here, and if so, I`d be gratefull if you could maybe enlighten me on this attitude they have?

charlie14 wrote: »

I haven`t heard or read anything about their attitude conducting themselves other than what I`ve seen with regards to the bugging controversy, and from what I could see they were the only party to come out of that with any credit.
Maybe I`ve missed something here, and if so, I`d be gratefull if you could maybe enlighten me on this attitude they have?

- Basically, they treat each member (with very few exceptions) as guilty before hearing their side.
- Their demeanour and attitude towards members accused (falsly accused mostly) of wrongdoing is shocking, but nothing you hear in the general media due to data protection or Gardaí getting wronged is not good news.
- They have the power to "blue light" it to a members house and "arrest" them in the middle of the night, if they deem it so (and have done).
- They expect the member accused to drop everything and devote their entire time to their investigation, completely ignoring the fact that the same member has his own investigations, on extremely limited time, to carry out.
- They also do not inform you of what you have been accused of until they decide that it's time to interview you,
- and quite often you get a letter saying that a complaint against you is not being investigated, but that is the first time you hear about it.
- They also do not prosecute, or recommend to prosecute, those who make proven, false allegations (very few exceptions).
- They are out to get members into court and prove a point that their positions are merited, regardless of the effect it can and does have on the members concerned, even if innocent.

I agree that they are needed, but they are not impartial, in my opinion. There is more i could say, but i'd be in breach of Data Protection and would probably be hounded by the authorities for having this opinion.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

- Basically, they treat each member (with very few exceptions) as guilty before hearing their side.
- Their demeanour and attitude towards members accused (falsly accused mostly) of wrongdoing is shocking, but nothing you hear in the general media due to data protection or Gardaí getting wronged is not good news.
- They have the power to "blue light" it to a members house and "arrest" them in the middle of the night, if they deem it so (and have done).
- They expect the member accused to drop everything and devote their entire time to their investigation, completely ignoring the fact that the same member has his own investigations, on extremely limited time, to carry out.
- They also do not inform you of what you have been accused of until they decide that it's time to interview you,
- and quite often you get a letter saying that a complaint against you is not being investigated, but that is the first time you hear about it.
- They also do not prosecute, or recommend to prosecute, those who make proven, false allegations.
- They are out to get members into court and prove a point that their positions are merited, regardless of the effect it can and does have on the members concerned, even if innocent.

I agree that they are needed, but they are not impartial, in my opinion. There is more i could say, but i'd be in breach of Data Protection and would probably be hounded by the authorities for having this opinion.

Sounds pretty much the same procedures as AGS when carrying out investigations of alledged wrongdoing by members of the general public.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

- Basically, they treat each member (with very few exceptions) as guilty before hearing their side.
- Their demeanour and attitude towards members accused (falsly accused mostly) of wrongdoing is shocking, but nothing you hear in the general media due to data protection or Gardaí getting wronged is not good news.
- They have the power to "blue light" it to a members house and "arrest" them in the middle of the night, if they deem it so (and have done).
- They expect the member accused to drop everything and devote their entire time to their investigation, completely ignoring the fact that the same member has his own investigations, on extremely limited time, to carry out.
- They also do not inform you of what you have been accused of until they decide that it's time to interview you,
- and quite often you get a letter saying that a complaint against you is not being investigated, but that is the first time you hear about it.
- They also do not prosecute, or recommend to prosecute, those who make proven, false allegations (very few exceptions).
- They are out to get members into court and prove a point that their positions are merited, regardless of the effect it can and does have on the members concerned, even if innocent.

I agree that they are needed, but they are not impartial, in my opinion. There is more i could say, but i'd be in breach of Data Protection and would probably be hounded by the authorities for having this opinion.

So not much different that how the Gardaí treat the public then ?

sopretty wrote: »

Hounded by what authorities?

AGS management and Government, for possibly breaching the Data Protection Act, the Official Secrets Act or the Garda Code.

charlie14 wrote: »

Sounds pretty much the same procedures as AGS when carrying out investigations of alledged wrongdoing by members of the general public.

marienbad wrote: »

So not much different that how the Gardaí treat the public then ?

Yes, because every single Garda does that to every single person who is a potential suspect. Seriously, do ye just hear someone in the pub talking bollix and decide that the entire force does this? Some of them don't even make sense when changed to the general public. Being sensationalist for the sake of it. Sigh...

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nope, you were informed wrong. The first we hear about an allegation against us is when GSOC decide that they're not going ahead with it, or that they want an interview in the immediate future.

As is always the case when people have their mind made up against the Gardaí, they refuse to listen to reason, or even to step back and think about what they're typing. Someone asked for a list, i gave a list, and people are already jumping on the bandwagon and claiming that every Garda is corrupt and only out to catch the innocent.

I will tell you one thing though, with attitudes like that, ye will soon have no force to be giving out about, because i personally am getting sick to my teeth of people treating me like mud under their shoe, and all i'm trying to do is my bit for my country. Callinan and Co. are on the complete opposite side of the country to me, and i have no idea what they were up to, or who's back they were rubbing. I go to work every day and carry out my duty to the best of my ability, within the merits of legality, and constantly with an understanding of what victims of crime are going through.

But i'm quite close to giving up. It's beginning to have a severe effect on my mental stability to have to listen to people generalising and lumping me in with the bad apples that are in every walk of life. I went from being proactive and going out of my way to be the best at what i was doing (as i would have in any job) to wishing away the time i'm at work. I want to continue doing this job, but between idiotic management, the public crying out for the blood of every member, and laws that protect the criminal and not the victims, i'm seriously considering quitting, even with a mortgage and loans to pay.

And i'm one of many, many members who are thinking the exact same. So cry out, blame all for the actions of a few, and soon ye will get what ye deserve.

Oh, i should also add that everything i've said in this thread is my opinion, and not representative of any club and/or organisation.

source wrote: »

For proof of what potential-monke is saying, you only have to look back a few months to the two members who were prosecuted for assault in cork.

Their crime was using an issued weapon in the prescribed manner against a violent prisoner.

They were left with a huge legal bill when the judge threw the case out of court.

GSOC only care about high profile prosecutions against Gardai to show they are "making a difference" it's nothing short of a PR exercise.

I personally had a complaint made against me to GSOC, I was exonerated when it was priced I wasn't working the night the incident was supposed to have happened. My sergeant was interviewed as were other sergeants in the station. The first I had heard about the allegation was when I got a letter saying I was no longer being investigated. No hint if what I was alleged to have done, nothing!

When I asked questions about it, I was told I'd be best of to leave it lie and was left to guess for myself what the implications would be if I pursued it.

I'm no longer a member of AGS, though I render feeling the same as Potential-Monke when I was in the job.

GSOC aren't the shining beacon the public think it is, if AGS conducted investigations in the same manner as GSOC do then there'd massive public outcry.

Does the allegation remain on your record? (I.e. can it affect promotion changes?)

Can you share why you left with us?

source wrote: »

I was signed off medically unfit to continue, I don't want to be any more specific than that for obvious reasons.

I'm not sure if it stays on your record, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Completely understandable.

I've heard the same of other police forces in America for example, strange practice for those that have been vindicated.

sopretty wrote: »

So you acknowledge that AGS management hound you for having an opinion and expressing it? This surely is not healthy, nor conducive to reform. This is why GSOC is needed. This is why reform is needed. To stamp out this culture of bullying, corruption, collusion and incompetence. From the top down, rather from the bottom up.

I can have an opinion, but it has to be aired through the proper channels when it concerns Data Sensitive information, or issues and/or concerns about procedures or actions. I cannot use names, stations or figures which are only known internally on a public forum, be it here on boards, Facebook or to the media. If i'm in breach of the Data Protection Act, the Official Secrets Act or the Garda Code then management can quite rightly pursue me, and boards or any Irish run forum are legally obliged to provide them with my information (upon receipt of a sufficient warrant).

So, yes, i can have an opinion, as long as it doesn't breach any of the above, which severely limits my public opinion, as only a fool would think that these forums and all social media of members are not being monitored. Members have already got into trouble over Facebook and Twitter comments which can be seen as "conduct unbecoming of a member of An Garda Síochána". We are never off duty, and as such always have to represent ourselves in the best interests of the Force. One of the reasons why i rarely socialise in public anymore, for fear of a flippant comment made coming back to haunt me.

As for the phone being recorded, as source said, it's being happening for years, management were well aware, so i'd assume the Ministers for Defence were, but as long as it's not being used maliciously (which i insist they were not) then i can't see the issue. It's not feasible to inform every caller that the call is being recorded, as some people could be ringing with time sensitive information, or others could be put off ringing with information, even though we never pursue someone who wishes to give information confidentially.