The Dark side of the game.

Tom Joad · 11-08-2015 9:04pm #1

There are discussions going on across a number of threads on the dark side of the game, mainly arising from the incidents in the Tyrone/Monaghan game. When discussions occur across a number of threads it becomes very messy and difficult to follow for everyone and drags other threads off topic (and very difficult to moderate too).

So this thread is to discuss all things covering diving/cynical play etc, etc in the game.

Couple of ground rules before posting:

The GAA charter applies and will be strictly enforced:

That includes:

No abuse of other posters, players, officials etc,etc..
No trolling
No backseat moderation - use the report function if you think a post requires moderator action and one of us will get to it and deal with it.
No sectarian/ inflammatory language

This list is not exhaustive and may be added to by the mods.

Realt Dearg Sec · 11-08-2015 9:21pm

Should be good craic!

Tipp invented dirty play in 1962.

Tom Joad · 11-08-2015 9:54pm

There were a couple of good points made on a few different threads that I
tried to merge in here but I can only do them in chronological order so they would just be a jumble of unrelated posts.

But my own view on a couple of the points made.

There is a world of a difference between the Meath team of the 80s/90s and what we are talking about this year. That Meath team was tough as old boots and yes sometimes they stepped over the line of physicality but there was nothing underhand or cowardly about what they did.

The way the game has gone in terms of the time and effort put in by teams it was inevitable that the win at all costs/ keep pushing the boundaries was going to end with some of the antics we see and hear about diving/feigning injury/ sledging etc. It is up to the GAA now to firmly and fairly deal with every incident of this consistently in order to wipe it out - it is a scourge on the game and is destroying it.

The time wasting/ lying down to waste time has crept into the game in the last few years and in my mind the answer is simple - bring in a rugby style system of stopping the clock and take the time keeping/injury time out of the ref's hands. Plus get any injured player (as long as not a head/spinal injury) off the field and he needs to be invited back on by the ref when play is halted again naturally.

There was another discussion about whether you would prefer a punch or to be sledged(is that a word now

). To me I think sledging is the last resort of a coward. As I recall on the field one day when someone was throwing shapes at our full back, he said "if you hit me again make sure you knock me out because if I can get up I will lay you out flat". Needless to say yer man quit his messin. Point is that if you throw a punch, you run the risk of being seen by an official or retribution by the opposition. Using a personal tragedy to goad someone on the other hand is the act of a coward pure and simple.

Jayop · 11-08-2015 10:45pm

Remove time keeping from the refs and introduce a rule next year before the league that anyone diving gets a ban from video evidence.

Job done.

Realt Dearg Sec · 11-08-2015 10:53pm

Jayop wrote: »

Remove time keeping from the refs and introduce a rule next year before the league that anyone diving gets a ban from video evidence.

Job done.

If you can get a two thirds majority from that lumbering dinosaur congress, you'll have worked a miracle.

Jayop · 11-08-2015 10:57pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

If you can get a two thirds majority from that lumbering dinosaur congress, you'll have worked a miracle.

But it really is that simple. Tough punishments on diving, miss one game in the championship first offence, 3 for the second etc then it stops overnight.

The same with the time keeping. It's been a massive issue with the GAA for years even before Sean Cavanagh invented time wasting. The issue of the GAA being money grabbers with the refs blowing up for draws (utter nonsense) has been talked about since I was a nipper. Make it simple, the ladies have the hooter (no pun) so it's been tried and tested.

The sledging is harder to solve. I don't mind a bit of chat, that's been going on for ever but there's a line. If lads don't know where that is then more shame on them but I don't see how you can stop it if you can't prove it.

blackcard · 11-08-2015 11:17pm

Maybe someone could explain how 'additional time' works. If say a goalkeeper wastes time taking a puckout, does the referee add on the time wasted along with the time taken booking the goalkeeper? Does a ref add on time for booking / sending off a player. Does the ref add on time for a substitution taking place? Or for a goalkeeper strolling up to take a free? The time for consulting with linesmen/umpires? Hawkeye? Or is it just 2 minutes of additional time anyway? One way of wasting time recently is where a ruck develops in hurling and the ball has to be thrown in 2 or 3 times. I think there should be a rule where a ref has to add in additional time if a ball has to be thrown in twice or more

Jayop · 11-08-2015 11:20pm

Considering Duffy played over 10 minutes of injury time at the weekend he clearly added it on for any time he thought it was being wasted.

DDC1990 · 11-08-2015 11:29pm

Philip Jordan seems to be convinced that McCann has got an 8 week ban from the CCCCCCC.

Now I was disgusted by McCann's cheating and the fact that Hughes got sent off for it, but the current rule book states that the current sanction for diving and feigning injury is a yellow card.

Some jump to give an 8 week ban to a guy for what is deemed a yellow card offence in the rule book if this is true.

By all means change the rule book and introduce retrospective bans for diving and feigning injury, or upgrade it to a red card. But to do this out of nowhere, after leaving Sheilds' one go unpunished would be fairly shocking and not something I'd like to see.

Jayop · 11-08-2015 11:33pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

Philip Jordan seems to be convinced that McCann has got an 8 week ban from the CCCCCCC.

Now I was disgusted by McCann's cheating and the fact that Hughes got sent off for it, but the current rule book states that the current sanction for diving and feigning injury is a yellow card.

Some jump to give an 8 week ban to a guy for what is deemed a yellow card offence in the rule book if this is true.

By all means change the rule book and introduce retrospective bans for diving and feigning injury, or upgrade it to a red card. But to do this out of nowhere, after leaving Sheilds' one go unpunished would be fairly shocking and not something I'd like to see.

If that's the case then it's simply disgusting and much worse than the actual dive. As I said above I'd be all in favour of harsh punishments for diving, but you can't just decide 3/4's the way though the year to start punishing one player just because O'Rourke lost his **** on the Sunday game. It should be introduced at the start of next year and it should be made clear to every county what's happening.

Where'd you hear this?

DDC1990 · 11-08-2015 11:36pm

Jayop wrote: »

If that's the case then it's simply disgusting and much worse than the actual dive. As I said above I'd be all in favour of harsh punishments for diving, but you can't just decide 3/4's the way though the year to start punishing one player just because O'Rourke lost his **** on the Sunday game. It should be introduced at the start of next year and it should be made clear to every county what's happening.

Where'd you hear this?

Philip Jordan is losing his **** (rightly IMO) about it on his Twitter account. Can't link to it because I'm on my phone, but check it out. He appears to be entirely convinced himself, or else he is on a serious troll mission.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/tweets

Jayop · 11-08-2015 11:38pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

Philip Jordan is losing his **** (rightly IMO) about it on his Twitter account. Can't link to it because I'm on my phone, but check it out. He appears to be entirely convinced himself, or else he is on a serious troll mission.

https://twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/with_replies

I don't see where he's said it's actually happening. He linked the following website...

http://teamtalkmag.com/2015/08/exclusive-gaa-being-pressurised-into-taking-action-on-tiernan-mccann/

...and seems to be talking about it. Apparently a source in HQ has said several " high profile Dublin based journalists" have been pressuring the CCC to take action.

feargale · 11-08-2015 11:40pm

Jayop wrote: »

The sledging is harder to solve. I don't mind a bit of chat, that's been going on for ever but there's a line. If lads don't know where that is then more shame on them but I don't see how you can stop it if you can't prove it.

I agree that it's the lowest of the low. Part of the problem of misbehaviour has been the schoolboy notion prevalent among GAA players that it's unmanly to complain about these things. I have heard of appalling things being said and it's now too prevalent and too serious to throw up hands and say nothing can be done about it. I can only think of two possible solutions:
1. Plant a good lipreader, with binoculars if necessary.
2. The ref enters each dressing room before the game and randomly picks two players and attaches hidden microphones to them.
Crazy, you may say, but I'll stick to these suggested solutions until I hear better.

Last Sunday I saw two players blown against for a perfectly fair shoulder, 1. about three minutes into the minor game and 2. around the 11th minute in the senior game. I wouldn't dream of giving a shoulder now. I'd pull the jersey instead. Nine times out of ten you'll get away with it, even if you do it under the ref's eyes. And it's awful to watch.

What do you think of the nonsence that now seems de rigeur when a sub comes on? I mean the obligatory getting to know you dig in the ribs or whatever for your immediate opponent. It injects an atmosphere of venom before a ball has been struck. If the ref is otherwise occupied one might at least expect that one or two of the other officials would watch for it. There's nothing manly about it, contrary to what some baboons seem to think. In the recent Limerick v. Tipp game I saw a sub come on and shake hands with his opposite number. Just that, no more. I wondered if I was seeing things.

DDC1990 · 11-08-2015 11:49pm

Jayop wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/with_replies

I don't see where he's said it's actually happening. He linked the following website...

http://teamtalkmag.com/2015/08/exclusive-gaa-being-pressurised-into-taking-action-on-tiernan-mccann/

...and seems to be talking about it. Apparently a source in HQ has said several " high profile Dublin based journalists" have been pressuring the CCC to take action.

Check out the replies to the tweet to Brolly. He says "An 8 week ban, you are the man to call on."

Joe replies saying "You are kidding", And Jordan says "No, serious, why change rules when you can just make up new ones."

Jayop · 11-08-2015 11:50pm

https://twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/status/631224794281836544
https://twitter.com/JoeBrolly1993/status/631225911279546368
https://twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/status/631226331657842688
https://twitter.com/JoeBrolly1993/status/631226655823003648
https://twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/status/631227335799386112

Not sure why they're not embedding properly

ProudDUB · 11-08-2015 11:52pm

Tom Joad wrote: »

The time wasting/ lying down to waste time has crept into the game in the last few years and in my mind the answer is simple - bring in a rugby style system of stopping the clock and take the time keeping/injury time out of the ref's hands. Plus get any injured player (as long as not a head/spinal injury) off the field and he needs to be invited back on by the ref when play is halted again naturally.

There was nearly 9 minute of injury time added on to the Tyrone/Monaghan game. Shag all of it was for actual injuries. So the ref was clearly adding on time for lads playing silly buggers with the time wasting. It was about the only thing Martin Duffy did right all day long. I'd be curious to know if that was his own decision, or word came from higher up.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

If you can get a two thirds majority from that lumbering dinosaur congress, you'll have worked a miracle.

You never know. Look at how the GAA powers that be were able to get the SKY deal done, without it ever going to a vote at Congress. There is no way it would have passed a vote if it did. Sometimes it's not about what you can or can not get a 2/3 majority for. It's all about how well you play the politics of taking things off the voted upon agenda in the first place.

frostyjacks · 12-08-2015 12:01am

There's no difference to what Tyrone do and what the likes of Meath did back in the day. It's about doing what needs to be done to win. Look at the All Blacks at the last world cup final, fouled their way to victory in the closing stages. People need to take off the rose tinted spectacles.

feargale · 12-08-2015 12:26am

frostyjacks wrote: »

There's no difference to what Tyrone do and what the likes of Meath did back in the day. It's about doing what needs to be done to win. Look at the All Blacks at the last world cup final, fouled their way to victory in the closing stages. People need to take off the rose tinted spectacles.

People need to divest themselves of whataboutery and grasp the nettles.

Nib · 12-08-2015 12:31am

frostyjacks wrote: »

There's no difference to what Tyrone do and what the likes of Meath did back in the day. It's about doing what needs to be done to win. Look at the All Blacks at the last world cup final, fouled their way to victory in the closing stages. People need to take off the rose tinted spectacles.

I'm no fan of Meath, but I've never seen one of their players hit the deck as if he was gunned down after some one ruffled his hair. This current Tyrone team are toxic, there's no getting away from that no matter how much Tyrone apologists such as yourself spew nonsense.

Jayop · 12-08-2015 12:32am

If this ban is true I could be just about done with gaa.

Nib · 12-08-2015 12:36am

Jayop wrote: »

If this ban is true I could be just about done with gaa.

I agree.

A 16 week ban would be more appropriate.

Jayop · 12-08-2015 12:40am

Conor Mortimor talking sense, but we're all paranoid up north.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Conmort/status/631227962378076160

Jayop · 12-08-2015 12:59am

I'm not joking when I say if this happens I'd want Tyrone to boycott the game.

Jayop · 12-08-2015 1:17am

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.balls.ie/gaa/gifs-following-michael-shields-fall-recalling-3-other-notorious-dives-in-the-gaa/302098

KrustyUCC · 12-08-2015 1:26am

Stoner wrote: »

I'm going to take an example from a game I was at. Hopefully the Cork lads can see past the fact that I'm talking about a Cork player , it could be anyone but its the best example I saw this year.

In the league finals a certain Cork player attempted to injure two opposing players out with an elbow and a punch. The elbow made it to the Sunday game , the punch never transferred from TNG although it was picked up in their analysis.

No action was taken retrospectivly. The elbow on Connelly was right in front of the linesman. I'm not singling out Cork or a particular player. But I would rather have my hair adjusted than my jaw off the ball.

My county has had its own issues but what we saw there was off the ball stuff with intent to injure. Yet only half it made the analysis, I can only guess that if this was a Tyrone player (not any Ulster player) that RTE would have shown both incidents, TNG showed both.

Why can one county player get away with trying to damage two players while another gets a ban for diving. There is something wrong if there's a ban given out for this when worse , or very similar has gone on elsewhere.

This can't come in now imho

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0612/707583-corks-osullivan-suspended-for-clash-with-clare/

He did get a ban

I can't argue that he didn't deserve a suspension but he did not get off scott free

It was misreported

2moreMinutes · 12-08-2015 1:50am

Jayop wrote: »

I'm not joking when I say if this happens I'd want Tyrone to boycott the game.

If nothing else, it'll extend Tyrones persecution complex out for another good ten years.

Jayop · 12-08-2015 2:09am

2moreMinutes wrote: »

If nothing else, it'll extend Tyrones persecution complex out for another good ten years.

Yeah sure it's pure paranoia.

Dude, go wum someone else.

dixiefly · 12-08-2015 8:18am

Jayop wrote: »

If that's the case then it's simply disgusting and much worse than the actual dive. As I said above I'd be all in favour of harsh punishments for diving, but you can't just decide 3/4's the way though the year to start punishing one player just because O'Rourke lost his **** on the Sunday game. It should be introduced at the start of next year and it should be made clear to every county what's happening.

Where'd you hear this?

I cant agree.

It was blatant cheating and definitely brought the game into disrepute.

I am not an expert on he rulebook but people have been suspended for bringing the game into disrepute before so I would agree with an 8 week ban, sounds about right.

frostyjacks · 12-08-2015 8:40am

feargale wrote: »

People need to divest themselves of whataboutery and grasp the nettles.

There are no manly fouls or unmanly fouls, only fouls. GAA need to apply the rules consistently or not at all.

wackokid · 12-08-2015 9:09am

Why are people missing the fact that Hughes was RED carded for his dangerous tackle on Colm Cavanagh and NOT for his hairdressing skills. Duffy already had the red card in his greasy little paw before McCann went down.
The game is already in disrepute and it's not because of the players. Croke Park take a bow.

Ceist_Beag · 12-08-2015 9:27am

dixiefly wrote: »

I cant agree.

It was blatant cheating and definitely brought the game into disrepute.

I am not an expert on he rulebook but people have been suspended for bringing the game into disrepute before so I would agree with an 8 week ban, sounds about right.

It is already covered in the rulebook - diving is a yellow card offence - see GAA Rules & Regulations, point 4 under Cautionable Infractions (Yellow Cards) - 4. To attempt to achieve an advantage by feigning a foul or injury.

Introducing a retrospective 8 week ban for a yellow card offence is madness of the highest order and complete populism on behalf of the CCCC, if true! It sets a very dangerous precedent.

dxhound2005 · 12-08-2015 11:23pm

Back in 2001 the GAA were so worried about the apparently new disease of players diving and feigning injury that they got a committe together to come up with some appropriate sanctions to stamp out this virus. This piece in the Independent could have been written this week, not 2001. Nothing new under the sun.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-plans-radical-remedy-for-footballs-cheating-virus-26081203.html

Jayop · 12-08-2015 11:24pm

I'm tempted to click.

TCDStudent1 · 12-08-2015 11:29pm

Jayop wrote: »

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.balls.ie/gaa/gifs-following-michael-shields-fall-recalling-3-other-notorious-dives-in-the-gaa/302098

If anything, that link has convinced me that now is the time to start clamping down on these incidents. Sure it's hard on McCann to get punished when the others were not. But I think that's better than allowing this kind of behaviour to continue. Somebody somewhere has to be punished to set a precedent to stop this stuff from happening. McCann seems to be the unlucky one, but ultimately he still only has himself to blame.

If action isn't taken against McCann, then the next time there is an incident like this, somebody can add the McCann video to the above list and say "sure look everybody gets away with it". And on and on we go until we accept it as the norm in the game. And I do not think that any supporter wants this behaviour to be the norm.

**************************************

As for sledging, I think this is one of the hardest things to police. Like, when does sledging actually cross a line? Paidi O'Sé spoke about his famous spat with Dinny Allen a while back. He explained how Allen was doing well and said to him "They will be taking you off soon". To me, that is not sledging. But when do verbal comments become sledging? Does it have to be something as personal and vindictive as the death of a family member? Its very difficult to define a line as to when the verbals cross that line into sledging.

Jayop · 12-08-2015 11:39pm

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

If anything, that link has convinced me that now is the time to start clamping down on these incidents. Sure it's hard on McCann to get punished when the others were not. But I think that's better than allowing this kind of behaviour to continue. Somebody somewhere has to be punished to set a precedent to stop this stuff from happening. McCann seems to be the unlucky one, but ultimately he still only has himself to blame.

If action isn't taken against McCann, then the next time there is an incident like this, somebody can add the McCann video to the above list and say "sure look everybody gets away with it". And on and on we go until we accept it as the norm in the game. And I do not think that any supporter wants this behaviour to be the norm.

**************************************

As for sledging, I think this is one of the hardest things to police. Like, when does sledging actually cross a line? Paidi O'Sé spoke about his famous spat with Dinny Allen a while back. He explained how Allen was doing well and said to him "They will be taking you off soon". To me, that is not sledging. But when do verbal comments become sledging? Does it have to be something as personal and vindictive as the death of a family member? Its very difficult to define a line as to when the verbals cross that line into sledging.

As for your first part of the post I don't think that's the case at all. If a new rule is introduced properly and communicated to everyone that diving will get you a long ban then anyone who does it deserves what they get.

The first person to get a black card didn't say "but Sean Cavanagh didn't get one".

Tom Joad · 12-08-2015 11:42pm

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

If anything, that link has convinced me that now is the time to start clamping down on these incidents. Sure it's hard on McCann to get punished when the others were not. But I think that's better than allowing this kind of behaviour to continue. Somebody somewhere has to be punished to set a precedent to stop this stuff from happening. McCann seems to be the unlucky one, but ultimately he still only has himself to blame.

If action isn't taken against McCann, then the next time there is an incident like this, somebody can add the McCann video to the above list and say "sure look everybody gets away with it". And on and on we go until we accept it as the norm in the game. And I do not think that any supporter wants this behaviour to be the norm.

**************************************

As for sledging, I think this is one of the hardest things to police. Like, when does sledging actually cross a line? Paidi O'Sé spoke about his famous spat with Dinny Allen a while back. He explained how Allen was doing well and said to him "They will be taking you off soon". To me, that is not sledging. But when do verbal comments become sledging? Does it have to be something as personal and vindictive as the death of a family member? Its very difficult to define a line as to when the verbals cross that line into sledging.

I'm not too sure off the rulebook on sledging but there is a rule that covers sectarian abuse Rule 7.2 (ix) specifies a Category IV infraction as: “An act by deed, word or gesture of a racist, sectarian or anti-inclusion/diversity nature.” Gearoid McKiernan got a 2 match ban under this rule earlier this year but that's the only one I've heard off and it was at a match in January where you could hear the players talking to each other it was so quiet so obviously the ref heard the comment. In Croke Park I imagine that's virtually impossible.

Would agree that it is difficult to define the line and also difficult to prove it's happened - that's why it's the last resort of a coward.

Jayop · 12-08-2015 11:45pm

Tom Joad wrote: »

I'm not too sure off the rulebook on sledging but there is a rule that covers sectarian abuse Rule 7.2 (ix) specifies a Category IV infraction as: “An act by deed, word or gesture of a racist, sectarian or anti-inclusion/diversity nature.” Gearoid McKiernan got a 2 match ban under this rule earlier this year but that's the only one I've heard off and it was at a match in January where you could hear the players talking to each other it was so quiet so obviously the ref heard the comment. In Croke Park I imagine that's virtually impossible.

Would agree that it is difficult to define the line and also difficult to prove it's happened - that's why it's the last resort of a coward.

A bit of talking and goading is fine. Talking about someone's religion, colour, sexuality, family or things of that nature are not.

TCDStudent1 · 12-08-2015 11:45pm

Tom Joad wrote: »

I'm not too sure off the rulebook on sledging but there is a rule that covers sectarian abuse Rule 7.2 (ix) specifies a Category IV infraction as: “An act by deed, word or gesture of a racist, sectarian or anti-inclusion/diversity nature.” Gearoid McKiernan got a 2 match ban under this rule earlier this year but that's the only one I've heard off and it was at a match in January where you could hear the players talking to each other it was so quiet so obviously the ref heard the comment. In Croke Park I imagine that's virtually impossible.

Would agree that it is difficult to define the line and also difficult to prove it's happened - that's why it's the last resort of a coward.

Aah I missed that Gearoid McKiernan story (or have just forgotten). Really, there is a responsibility on players and management here. You just cant be relying on the referee for everything.

TCDStudent1 · 13-08-2015 12:08am

Jayop wrote: »

A bit of talking and goading is fine. Talking about someone's religion, colour, sexuality, family or things of that nature are not.

Still think its very hard to define a line to be honest. There will always be grey areas.

Grudaire · 13-08-2015 7:50am

There was opportunities earlier in the Tyrone game where seemingly crippled Tyrone players made miraculous recoveries when no free was awarded and the ball remained in play.

I would like to see the rule applied first before creating extra rules, begin at the start of the game giving yellow cards for feigning offences and it'll cut out a lot of the nonsense.

Rasputin11 · 13-08-2015 10:19am

Dermot Shortt of Offaly got Seamus Callanan sent off in the league quarter final this year by throwing himself to the ground after minimal contact, it's not a football only problem.

rebel girl 15 · 13-08-2015 12:58pm

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

It is already covered in the rulebook - diving is a yellow card offence - see GAA Rules & Regulations, point 4 under Cautionable Infractions (Yellow Cards) - 4. To attempt to achieve an advantage by feigning a foul or injury.

Introducing a retrospective 8 week ban for a yellow card offence is madness of the highest order and complete populism on behalf of the CCCC, if true! It sets a very dangerous precedent.

It is not for the yellow card offense - the GAA are banning him under the rule where is states about bringing the association into disrepute. Duffy or one of his team must have seen him hit the deck, and did not issue a yellow for feigning injury. I'd like to see the ban being upheld, simply as a high profile stamp down by the GAA on feigning injury, and it was a high profile case. The Monaghan player was already gone before he did it, so the yellow card rule doesn't really apply here, he wasn't doing it to gain an advantage as such. It does take a case like this, where it was clear he was bringing the game into disrepute to set a precedence to stop other players from doing it.

As a body the CCCC is seen by GAA people as spineless, the number of cards and bans overturned by them unreal, and is putting unfair pressure on referees who know that decisions that they make on the pitch will more than likely be overturned, which doesn't help anybody respect referees.

Going back to the dark arts, there seems to be a win at all costs mentality developing in Tyrone. Many teams have pushed the rulebook, but they seem to be at the forefront pushing it more than most. Off the top of my head recently you had a referee and county official at a ladies game being assaulted, wasn't there a county player who had his jaw broken at a club game, the U21 final and the incidents around there, and the sledging incident with the Donegal player. You have to stand back and admire (maybe admire is the wrong word) Tyrone for doing it, I know its not within the ethos of the game or is moral at times, but if you think you can get away with it, and you do get away with it in games and it gives you the smallest advantage, you are going to do it until you are stopped. The GAA at times not strong enough to enforce big decisions - I would be surprised if the ban was upheld but happy it would be.

dixiefly · 13-08-2015 4:52pm

wackokid wrote: »

Why are people missing the fact that Hughes was RED carded for his dangerous tackle on Colm Cavanagh and NOT for his hairdressing skills. Duffy already had the red card in his greasy little paw before McCann went down.
The game is already in disrepute and it's not because of the players. Croke Park take a bow.

Wacko, is that true? I read somewhere that the referees report said Hughes was sent off for hitting McCann. Thee has been so much floating around on this issue that I cannot recall where I read it.

Jippo · 13-08-2015 4:54pm

wackokid wrote: »

Why are people missing the fact that Hughes was RED carded for his dangerous tackle on Colm Cavanagh and NOT for his hairdressing skills. Duffy already had the red card in his greasy little paw before McCann went down.
The game is already in disrepute and it's not because of the players. Croke Park take a bow.

Is there evidence for this either way (for striking or the tackle)?

I can't see how the tackle could be construed as a red card TBH.

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2015 8:49pm

James Horan on OTB saying that the CCCC decision is crazy and that Tyrone are being hung out to dry all because of media bias

Royal Legend · 13-08-2015 11:19pm

Jippo wrote: »

Is there evidence for this either way (for striking or the tackle)?

I can't see how the tackle could be construed as a red card TBH.

was he already on a yellow? second yellow and red, as Horan said, if he was sent off for the McCann incident, then why are they not looking at Duffy?

Jayop · 13-08-2015 11:35pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

was he already on a yellow? second yellow and red, as Horan said, if he was sent off for the McCann incident, then why are they not looking at Duffy?

My thoughts on what Duffy did was that he was probably going to give him a black for the tackle which was correct. He hauled Colm to the ground. He then probably added the yellow to the black for the hair pull.

I don't know if Duffy could have produced a black then a yellow or a yellow then a black to make the red but neither on their own was worthy of a red. Together they might just have done.

It's pure speculation on my part.

BonnieSituation · 14-08-2015 9:24am

Royal Legend wrote: »

was he already on a yellow? second yellow and red, as Horan said, if he was sent off for the McCann incident, then why are they not looking at Duffy?

Well this is the big question and this is why you have got to really question the CCCC in all of this. It looks like they are trying to keep Duffy clean in all of this.

paddy no 11 · 14-08-2015 11:37am

People have to be responsible for their actions and McCann's at the weekend brought the game into disrepute and he cant blame anyone else, not the cccc, hughes nobody but himself.

He should have seen the embarrassment on his team mates face who received a black card when an attempt to feign injury went wrong and he received a black card when he dragged an opponent to the ground. McCann couldn't take the warning and focus on football and now his antics have left him embarrassed and suspended.

This was not a spur of the moment thing, McCann eventually received a black card himself, his actions in that incident were pitiful, falling around with his hands by his side while crashing into monaghan players hoping to draw a response from them, his actions were pre meditated and he doesn't deserve our sympathies (unless this behaviour was encouraged by others which it may well have been given the behaviour of some other tyrone players)

You cannot defend the indefensible with the indefensible, and dives by other players cant be brought into it (though id have no problem with shields being banned also)

Last Saturday was an embarrassment to the GAA and im glad that action is being taken, we cannot let the AL semi final and final go the same way

Bottom line is the game is more important than any player

Stoner · 14-08-2015 1:34pm

paddy no 11 wrote: »

his actions in that incident were pitiful, falling around with his hands by his side while crashing into monaghan players hoping to draw a response from them,

that is very well put , I've supported the position of the Tyrone posters here WRT to it being unfair to punish one player differently for something similar to an action another player from a different team took.

My main issue was really the tarnishing different Tyrone teams with this and discrediting their old victories.

However when you put it like that, I've never seen anyone carry on or try to draw a reaction as blatantly as this before.

That said I've seen players run the length of the pitch grab people by the throat, or just hop into them while keeping their hands at their sides.

What happened at the weekend was a step further, yet the association has let many instances similar but not as blatant go unpunished before this.

If the ban stands the player can't blame anyone but himself. The other examples like Shields and JOD while arguably similar were in a different category, particularly JOD.

This player rolled a dice and took it to another level.

I still have an issue though with the GAA now deciding that this behavior is worthy of retrospective action. Should it inspire change? yes IMHO

We've seen lads deliver silly harmless slaps before and get sent off. They might as well have delivered a damaging punch. The message in that case is clear, you are off. Therefore players know that striking a player will get you sent off even if you don't hurt them.

Interfering with the visor in hurling is another example of a clear rule enforcing a clear position by the association.

The association is well able to get a message to players. Up to now we've all known that once you keep your hands by your side you can get involved.

But now who decides that you can't combine that with rolling around from one player to the next.

It was the worst case of this that I've seen, but up to that the association let it slide. The GAA could have punished less blatant actions like this before, but didn't.

The lad is far from blameless, but a message from the GAA that they are going to stamp this out with new rules in place for 2016 would have done the trick IMO.
The association have to recognize their lack of action and direction up to this point and note that they failed to communicate clearly to the players that such actions are outside the rules of the game.

If if take my own county as an example, if Dublin played Kerry tomorrow and hopping into a player while keeping your hands by your side earned a punishment then there would be at least 11 players sent off.

5 from Dublin and 6 from Kerry

All joking aside, all teams have players that goad the opposition with their hands firmly held by their side, I assume its instructed by their management but its certainly largely overlooked

All teams don't have players who just slap players because punching them will get you a suspension while the slap is an acceptable action.

The association should have been stronger on this before now and shown a bit of vision and recognized that it was inevitable that it was going to be pushed to this level.

We can argue all we want about this being a different rule that's being used here, ie bringing the game into disrepute, but it is the actions like diving and the ones named above that summed to the offence here so we are entitled to discuss them IMHO.

My main point stands, why wait until now, there have been plenty of opportunities to nip this in the bud.

wackokid · 14-08-2015 1:54pm

Paddy you are bringing this forum into disrepute for what ever reason.
Eoin Liston is bringing the Indo into the same thing but that wasn't difficult as it's hardly a reputable paper anyway.
Here's what he wrote it today's offering and presumably got well paid for it?

"He dived and got a Monaghan player sent off in an All-Ireland quarter-final, an incident that left a knot in the stomach of me and, I'd say, most GAA people watching."

That statement is palpably wrong as Marty Duffy already had the RED card out for Hughes crunching low tackle on Colm Cavanagh on his way out to clear a ball which he claimed out of the clouds. McCann most likely said something less than complimentary to Hughes who reacted with a 'girlish' hair pull. Hardly the action of a warrior. Yes, McCann didn't act honourably either but his action was less likely to dishonour the game that Hughes' hard man act.

McManus did a much more disreputable thing in the 68th minute when he conned Duffy by blatantly pulling Ronan McNamee's jersey down on top of him to earn a free which he converted. McNamee got a YELLOW card for that and another one later for questioning Marty when the other shennanagings were going on, and of course a RED.
Later he conned Marty again to get another close in free and wasn't happy with that, so hit Sean Cavanagh a flake with his elbow into the ribs because he clearly told him he was a cheat.
Does that constitute bringing the game into disrepute? In the name of God these things go on day in day out in GAA top end matches but to single out McCann for this media and GAA hostility is way OTT in my opinion as well as the obvious Kerry hatred of anything Tyrone. We all know why, but they should be men enough to take their beatings in '03, '05 and '08 and stop this constant harping on the 'Dark Arts' of Tyrone.

The 'Bomber' and the 'Indo' would be wise to watch a re run of that game and apologise to Tiernan McCann. They could start by listening to that boring monotone SKY commentator as he clearly states and I quote " Darren Hughes is taking the long walk for that challenge" and he wasn't talking about his hair pulling skills as that sentence came before the McCann incident.
Might be a day or two in Court later me thinks.

The Dark side of the game.

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