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A guide to motor insurance & FAQ's

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    #872
    acronym Chilli
    Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭acronym Chilli


    To Elland Back wrote: »
    If an excellent motorist is unfortunate enough to injure someone leading to a €50k payout for replacement car, injuries and legal costs, it would take 172 years of paying €290 for the insurer to break even

    OR

    172 fellow motorists getting through the year with out as much as a replacement windscreen being incurred.
    The second version (bold) is the key one. Insurer doesn't break even or make profit on each and every policy. They make money across the whole portfolio, and they lose money on the policies that have significant claims (while making money big time on the policies without any claims).

    Lots of people drive for years and years with no claims. It should be the norm.


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    #873
    To Elland Back
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    acronym Chilli wrote: »
    The second version (bold) is the key one. Insurer doesn't break even or make profit on each and every policy. They make money across the whole portfolio, and they lose money on the policies that have significant claims (while making money big time on the policies without any claims).

    Lots of people drive for years and years with no claims. It should be the norm.

    That example I gave was very basic raw data and doesn't take in to account Wage costs, operating costs, reserve requirements and (supposed) profit.

    Out of every 1,000 claims lodged, some will be small (but frequent) like replacement windscreens, which would easily eat up a €290 premium. Many will be minor, circa €10k and, thankfully, only a few will be well in to 6 figures

    My point is that 20 years of exceptionally good driving and you could easily eat up everything you've contributed in premiums from 1 minor indiscretion and insurers have to factor in the not so good/lucky drivers over the same period

    The big time profit they made in my sample was €7,000 from the 172 drivers


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    #874
    acronym Chilli
    Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭acronym Chilli


    To Elland Back wrote: »
    That example I gave was very basic raw data and doesn't take in to account Wage costs, operating costs, reserve requirements and (supposed) profit.

    Out of every 1,000 claims lodged, some will be small (but frequent) like replacement windscreens, which would easily eat up a €290 premium. Many will be minor, circa €10k and, thankfully, only a few will be well in to 6 figures

    My point is that 20 years of exceptionally good driving and you could easily eat up everything you've contributed in premiums from 1 minor indiscretion and insurers have to factor in the not so good/lucky drivers over the same period

    The big time profit they made in my sample was €7,000 from the 172 drivers
    I know, and to settle it we'd need access to data and actuarial skills, but the point that after 20 years of very good driving you'd have an accident and wipe out the money you'd paid in is fine, so long as everyone doesn't have that accident.

    Also, many drivers are paying far more than €280 as a premium.

    And many smaller claims won't be made because people want to preserve their NCB.

    I'm only arguing the toss on this because I hate when people look at a price (especially for something like insurance) and say "sure it couldn't be cheaper, it should probably be dearer". We need to challenge every price and shop around, certainly for stuff like insurance (whatever about a meal at your favourite local family run restaurant, where you may like to "support" the business as well as do business). Insurance is expensive in Ireland, and insurance firms do make money. I just picked one firm, Allianz, and globally in 2014 they had net income of €6bn on revenue of €122bn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allianz


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    #875
    Liam McPoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    acronym Chilli wrote: »
    I know, and to settle it we'd need access to data and actuarial skills, but the point that after 20 years of very good driving you'd have an accident and wipe out the money you'd paid in is fine, so long as everyone doesn't have that accident.

    Also, many drivers are paying far more than €280 as a premium.

    And many smaller claims won't be made because people want to preserve their NCB.

    I'm only arguing the toss on this because I hate when people look at a price (especially for something like insurance) and say "sure it couldn't be cheaper, it should probably be dearer". We need to challenge every price and shop around, certainly for stuff like insurance (whatever about a meal at your favourite local family run restaurant, where you may like to "support" the business as well as do business). Insurance is expensive in Ireland, and insurance firms do make money. I just picked one firm, Allianz, and globally in 2014 they had net income of €6bn on revenue of €122bn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allianz

    We are talking very specifically about motor insurance in Ireland though.

    Why should a company funnel their funds into a loss making, lame duck of a portfolio like motor insurance in Ireland just to keep Irish motorists happy?


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    #876
    To Elland Back
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    acronym Chilli wrote: »
    I know, and to settle it we'd need access to data and actuarial skills, but the point that after 20 years of very good driving you'd have an accident and wipe out the money you'd paid in is fine, so long as everyone doesn't have that accident.

    Also, many drivers are paying far more than €280 as a premium.

    And many smaller claims won't be made because people want to preserve their NCB.

    I'm only arguing the toss on this because I hate when people look at a price (especially for something like insurance) and say "sure it couldn't be cheaper, it should probably be dearer". We need to challenge every price and shop around, certainly for stuff like insurance (whatever about a meal at your favourite local family run restaurant, where you may like to "support" the business as well as do business). Insurance is expensive in Ireland, and insurance firms do make money. I just picked one firm, Allianz, and globally in 2014 they had net income of €6bn on revenue of €122bn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allianz

    That's a gross profit of 5% on revenue WORLDWIDE. Irish subsidiaries of these global insurers achieve far worse that the average, hence the reason their parent companies call them ashore and they stop writing business here. I 100% agree with questioning every bill, I do it myself with my own. I just think, unfortunately, current premiums are not sufficient to meet current obligations with our motor insurers


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    #877
    JessePinkman42
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭JessePinkman42


    Mods please delete.


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    #878
    Wozred
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Wozred


    My car had had a smell of burning from under the bonnet. After opening the bonnet and seeing smoke . I took the battery off and managed to stop any more damage . A part of the wiring loom had burnt out . The insurance have informed me that they do not pay out on electrical damage or mechanical damage . Due. To car maintenance. They did not look at the car .. I'm full comp 9 yrs ncb . Never claimed .. Can they do this ..


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    #879
    readytosnap
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭readytosnap


    Wozred wrote: »
    My car had had a smell of burning from under the bonnet. After opening the bonnet and seeing smoke . I took the battery off and managed to stop any more damage . A part of the wiring loom had burnt out . The insurance have informed me that they do not pay out on electrical damage or mechanical damage . Due. To car maintenance. They did not look at the car .. I'm full comp 9 yrs ncb . Never claimed .. Can they do this ..

    i'd check the small print of your policy, in theory fully comp should mean fully comp, which company is it?


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    #880
    To Elland Back
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    Electrical or Mechanical Derangement is a standard exclusion on motor insurance policies. The onus is always on the policyholder to prove the loss, so you might want to engage a motor engineer to establish the cause. However, from what you describe, I don't see it being anything else


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    #881
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Business Cat wrote: »
    We are talking very specifically about motor insurance in Ireland though.

    Why should a company funnel their funds into a loss making, lame duck of a portfolio like motor insurance in Ireland just to keep Irish motorists happy?

    So how did you get so fat if insurance is such a loss making charity ?

    You seem to be the comical Ali of the insurance world . . .

    image.jpg?w=444&c=1

    The problem for you is that the Irish public are not as stupid as you like to think they are.


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    #882
    Liam McPoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    Another new account buddy?

    I would have thought the men in white coats would have carted you off at this stage, a dribbling mess, eyes rolling in your head as you cry out at God to smite the billionaire insurance companies.

    You.

    Are.


    Mental.

    As you are well aware, creating new accounts to circumvent a site ban is itself is a site bannable offence.

    ;)


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    #883
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Business Cat wrote: »
    Another new account buddy?

    I would have thought the men in white coats would have carted you off at this stage, a dribbling mess, eyes rolling in your head as you cry out at God to smite the billionaire insurance companies.

    You.

    Are.


    Mental.

    As you are well aware, creating new accounts to circumvent a site ban is itself is a site bannable offence.

    ;)

    So is making false allegations about other posters. Report me if you think I'm a re-reg, and let's see what the moderators decide. I think you'll find the only one being found out here is the fat cat. :)


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    #884
    Liam McPoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    So is making false allegations about other posters. Report me if you think I'm a re-reg, and let's see what the moderators decide. I think you'll find the only one being found out here is the fat cat. :)

    You can rereg 1,000,000 times for all i care chap.

    You are very easy to spot at this stage which its handy because when you post your inane ramblings I know that its just the musings of someone that honestly hasn't a clue so i no longer waste my time trying to educate you.

    Now, if you will excuse me, there is a big insurance company bash on tomorrow evening that I must press my swimming trunks for.

    You see it's in a drained swimming pool thats been filled to the brim with €50 notes, stained with the blood, sweat and tears of the irish motorist so myself and the other fat cats can spend our evening diving into it, Scrooge McDuck style and laughing about how we have it all sown up and how stupid the public are.

    I'd recommend you get a job with an insurance company, the benefits one receives are tremendous.


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    #885
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Business Cat wrote: »
    You can rereg 1,000,000 times for all i care chap.

    You are very easy to spot at this stage which its handy because when you post your inane ramblings I know that its just the musings of someone that honestly hasn't a clue so i no longer waste my time trying to educate you.

    Now, if you will excuse me, there is a big insurance company bash on tomorrow evening that I must press my swimming trunks for.

    You see it's in a drained swimming pool thats been filled to the brim with €50 notes, stained with the blood, sweat and tears of the irish motorist so myself and the other fat cats can spend our evening diving into it, Scrooge McDuck style and laughing about how we have it all sown up and how stupid the public are.

    I'd recommend you get a job with an insurance company, the benefits one receives are tremendous.

    Have you reported your continued allegations and diversions to the moderators yet, and what was the outcome ? Fat Cat caught out again. :)


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    #886
    Liam McPoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Have you reported your continued allegations and diversions to the moderators yet, and what was the outcome ? Fat Cat caught out again. :)

    Im too busy counting your money, dont have the time Jed.


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    #887
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Business Cat and Fenetre, cool the jets.
    Thanks


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    #888
    CrowdedHouse
    Registered Users Posts: 6,804 ✭✭✭CrowdedHouse


    What do you do when an online quote doesn't match your reg. to the exact model?

    (A well known broker doesn't even have my model in the manual input)

    Ring or go elsewhere I suppose?

    Seven Worlds will Collide



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    #889
    Tippjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Tippjohn


    Had the same thing a few 6 weeks ago regarding a new car. The online only company I used left me in the lurch. The old company took me on at the closest model, just a check with underwriter and an hour later I was covered. As easy as 123 :-)


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    #890
    CrowdedHouse
    Registered Users Posts: 6,804 ✭✭✭CrowdedHouse


    Tippjohn wrote: »
    Had the same thing a few 6 weeks ago regarding a new car. The online only company I used left me in the lurch. The old company took me on at the closest model, just a check with underwriter and an hour later I was covered. As easy as 123 :-)

    Their online is wrong too, even though I'm with them at the moment

    Seven Worlds will Collide



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    #891
    Tippjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Tippjohn


    Just ring them up. They are very helpful. Problem is there are so many models.


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    #892
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Tippjohn wrote: »
    Just ring them up. They are very helpful. Problem is there are so many models.

    I had this twice before, both occasions I was insured under a similar model, with a note put under my file manually stating the exact model and that it was authorised by the underwriters.


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    #893
    Tippjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Tippjohn


    Perhaps it is all to do with the complexities of updating the database. It means tapping a keyboard a few times. Perhaps it is a " more than me jobsworths" action :-) .


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    #894
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    So I'm in the process of updating the car from an 06 fiesta 1.2 to a 2012 golf 2 litre TDI. Quotes are exactly the same for both cars. How does that make sense. Now I'm not complaining cause I was expecting to be rode with the 2 litre engine, but apparently engine power is not a factor in insurance these days. Go figure.


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    #895
    readytosnap
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭readytosnap


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    So I'm in the process of updating the car from an 06 fiesta 1.2 to a 2012 golf 2 litre TDI. Quotes are exactly the same for both cars. How does that make sense. Now I'm not complaining cause I was expecting to be rode with the 2 litre engine, but apparently engine power is not a factor in insurance these days. Go figure.

    Have you ever watched countdown? you know the Random Number Generator they use? well i am convinced they have one of those and they just press it when you ring and voila.


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    #896
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Definitely get that feeling alright. They should really be forced to show us how precisely they calculate risk. Especially since its a product we are forced to buy.


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    #897
    Liam McPoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    So I'm in the process of updating the car from an 06 fiesta 1.2 to a 2012 golf 2 litre TDI. Quotes are exactly the same for both cars. How does that make sense. Now I'm not complaining cause I was expecting to be rode with the 2 litre engine, but apparently engine power is not a factor in insurance these days. Go figure.

    How long is left on the policy?

    I'd be EXTREMELY surprised if the annual policy for both vehicles is exactly the same.


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    #898
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    I got a new quote for the golf and then out of interest I checked the fiesta. Both 870. Which is robbery for the fiesta BTW. I have 6 years no claims and full licence 8 years.

    I'll be swapping over my current fiesta policy to the golf early next week. Will report back.


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    #899
    Tippjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Tippjohn


    Costings, possibly based on statistics. A rise in crime in an area may cause a rise in risk. More powerful cars newer are generally much safer than older less modern types, injury rates are therefore less. a car is not worth much compared to whatever happens to a person.
    For instance I would not want to be sitting anywhere in a small hatchback with little bonnet and no boot to absorb energy.
    Plus of course a "try on" to negotiate with as any business does. My observations are that younger drivers tend ( not all) to have little clue or care of the results of por judgement.


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    #900
    Liam McPoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    I got a new quote for the golf and then out of interest I checked the fiesta. Both 870. Which is robbery for the fiesta BTW. I have 6 years no claims and full licence 8 years.

    I'll be swapping over my current fiesta policy to the golf early next week. Will report back.

    Something's not right there.

    I just did a quick quote on Chill for a 1.2 Fiesta and got €607, then for a 2l Golf and that was €850. All base details the same.

    Ring your insurer and see how much extra its gonna cost from now til renewal.


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    #901
    PrettyBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,213 ✭✭✭PrettyBoy


    My insurance quote is €200 more than I paid last year. I've shopped around a bit but can't find anyone that will do it cheaper. Probably a stupid question but is there any point in calling my current insurer and seeing if there's any chance they could reduce it slightly or is it not worth even trying?


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