Changed to Raw :-)

fatmammycat · 18-10-2012 1:42pm

http://www.vonlotta.com/diet.html I found this site useful, but there are many out there.

TooManyDogs · 18-10-2012 1:55pm

DogsFirst wrote: »

People are throwing out chest freezers when they move home. I've picked up three smaller ones for clients for under €30! Then filled them full of food and delivered them!!! Keep a close eye on done deal for house moves etc.

Fair play to you, I'd spent a year looking for a chest freezer and ended up buying one.

fifib wrote: »

I guess I should consult with my vet about switching to raw food also?

I didn't tell my vets, couldn't be bothered dealing with questions and being told I was likely to kill my dog through lack of knowledge. I just avoid mentioning what they eat unless I'm specifically asked. But that's just me, avoid a row if at all possible :rolleyes:

fatmammycat · 18-10-2012 2:07pm

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I didn't tell my vets, couldn't be bothered dealing with questions and being told I was likely to kill my dog through lack of knowledge. I just avoid mentioning what they eat unless I'm specifically asked. But that's just me, avoid a row if at all possible :rolleyes:

Plus, with the greatest or respects to vets, sometimes they are pushing certain food brands.

toadfly · 18-10-2012 2:22pm

fatmammycat wrote: »

Plus, with the greatest or respects to vets, sometimes they are pushing certain food brands.

They do this all the time and its so frustrating.

Got 4 mackeral fillets in tesco for lexi. was gonna get whole fish but fillets were cheaper. How long do I need to freeze them for before I give them to her?

fatmammycat · 18-10-2012 2:30pm

I don't freeze my fish at all before I give them to my lad, unless I want them to keep for a few days, then I just freeze and defrost as required ( usually from the night before)

TooManyDogs · 18-10-2012 2:44pm

TillyGirl wrote: »

was gonna get whole fish but fillets were cheaper. How long do I need to freeze them for before I give them to her?

I think it's more important to freeze whole fish for at least a week to kill off any paracites. Not sure it's as much of problem in fillets, open to correction though. I think the paracites locate in the head of the fish.

Irishchick · 18-10-2012 2:59pm

I would be careful about jumping into a raw diet without doing research. Alot of raw diets are really unbalanced and unhealthy because people think Oh Ill just give the dog meat and he'll be grand. That's a fast route to secondary parathyroid-ism.

Before anyone goes out buying loads of meat please research what a dog needs to have a balanced diet as you could end up doing more harm than good.

fatmammycat · 18-10-2012 3:04pm

Irishchick wrote: »

I would be careful about jumping into a raw diet without doing research. Alot of raw diets are really unbalanced and unhealthy because people think Oh Ill just give the dog meat and he'll be grand. That's a fast route to secondary parathyroid-ism.

Before anyone goes out buying loads of meat please research what a dog needs to have a balanced diet as you could end up doing more harm than good.

I think that's pretty solid advice, offal needs to be included, bone, fats, it's not just about giving a dog raw meat. But there's a lot of excellent sites available now that help tremendously.

fatmammycat · 18-10-2012 3:05pm

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I think it's more important to freeze whole fish for at least a week to kill off any paracites. Not sure it's as much of problem in fillets, open to correction though. I think the paracites locate in the head of the fish.

Oh, this, sorry Tilly Girl, I meant fillets too. I don't freeze fillets.

toadfly · 18-10-2012 3:10pm

Thanks everyone! :-)

fifib · 19-10-2012 2:19pm

thanks guys!
Just on what ive been reading im seeing conflicting advice with regards to the canned mackrel and sardines etc..ive seen people say dont buy the ones in brine and others say dont buy the ones in oil

bluecherry74 · 19-10-2012 2:53pm

My first order of gRAW arrived this week and the dogs and I are very impressed. It looks a lot more like proper meat than Prize Choice, which I've always though has a slightly odd look. I love that I can see bit of blood and entrails in it... well I don't love it, but you know what I mean!

The packets fit very nicely in the freezer as well - they look like oversized black puddings! :P It's obviously a bit more expensive than just sourcing cheap meat, but it's so convenient for during the week.

So my feeding routine is probably going to look something like this from now on:

Breakfast 7 days a week - chicken legs
Dinner 5 days a week - gRAW, a bit of extra veg/spud, and either sardines or an egg or a dollop of natural yogurt
Dinner at weekend - lap of lamb or anything else I can get cheap with veg/spuds/organs

Is there anything I'm missing out on or too low on?

bluecherry74 · 19-10-2012 2:56pm

fifib wrote: »

thanks guys!
Just on what ive been reading im seeing conflicting advice with regards to the canned mackrel and sardines etc..ive seen people say dont buy the ones in brine and others say dont buy the ones in oil

I think there are pros and cons to both so I tend to mix it up between the ones in brine and the ones in oil. I've given the ones in tomato sauce a couple of times too.

The ideal answer is to feed raw oily fish. I buy it whenever I see it reduced in Tesco and chop it into pieces and freeze. It can be hard to get cheap at certain times of the year though.

tk123 · 19-10-2012 8:42pm

bluecherry74 wrote: »

My first order of gRAW arrived this week and the dogs and I are very impressed. It looks a lot more like proper meat than Prize Choice, which I've always though has a slightly odd look.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that lol - it has a weird smell too IMO? I had a voucher for a petshop that sells it so spent it on prize choice. Might try some gRAW at some stage.

toadfly · 20-10-2012 11:32am

Ok I need help. 6weeks on raw and lexi has lost about 1.5kg. The weight loss is less then when she was on dry but she is still losing it. Can anyone think of anything to try? She's on about 3.5% a day. Mainly chick drumsticks/oyster legs with fillets of fish every second day and a piece of liver everyday. Spuds carrots and broccoli too. Am I missing something? This can't go on.

Going shopping in an hour so any help would be great. I know upping the spud would help but Id prefer to keep it majority meat.

DBB · 20-10-2012 1:00pm

The 3% of bodyweight is a guideline. Active and/or young dogs may need more, and it sounds like Lexi does! I'd be inclined to up the meat and hit the 4.5% bodyweight mark, see how you get on. Maybe reduce the fish in favour of meat for a while, as fish is not as calorific.
I'm trying to get some weight off mine! Fish and de-skinned chicken, and no spuds here for the min! So I envy you!

bluecherry74 · 20-10-2012 1:37pm

I'm no expert but I agree with DBB that the 3% is only a rough guideline. I started one of my dogs out on 3% and she started to pack on the pounds. I have her at about 2% and she seems to be ok on that. My younger dog on the other hand is a skinny minny and gets at least 4.5%.

tk123 · 20-10-2012 2:06pm

Yeah you just need to increase it imo and find the right figure for Lexi. We started out on 2% and dropped to 1.75% to allow for other treats etc and no probs. Anyhoos asked in the butchers if they had any bones earlier - the guy asked what kind of dog "they have a big mouth...i'll get you a big bone!" - the thing he came back with is the length of my forearm lol!! Luckily he sawed it in 2 for me - Bailey's out with it for the last hour!

toadfly · 20-10-2012 3:48pm

Thanks guys have upped it to 4.5%

Only thing I can think might also be the problem is she barely chews the food so her body would have to work harder to process/digest it, or would that be a problem?

DogsFirst · 22-10-2012 8:57am

Not at all, it't they way they eat. Omnivores chew (meals need masticating), look at a cow. Carnivores gulp, let them at it. Don't worry re torsion / bloat and all thaT. The only diet links to those problems are gulping kibble and bowls up high. Never put a bowl up on one of those stands, especially for a deep chested dog. They're designed to eat head down! Also, it's a sign of appetance. I barely chew my takeaways on Saturday night but if anyone tries to stop me I snap at them. It's natural.

toadfly · 22-10-2012 9:13am

Haha thanks DF. I will leave her to it and hopefully she will put on a bit of weight.

DogsFirst · 22-10-2012 3:34pm

Stuff it in there. Three meals a day instead of two maybe? Why not

toadfly · 22-10-2012 4:13pm

Im doing that at the weekends but can't during the week as I work all day.

nala2012 · 23-10-2012 1:30pm

I've been feeding raw for a while now and when i was making up nala's food last night i started wondering if she's getting all the right vitamins and if i'm feeding what i should be so i'm just going to write up what she usually gets and i'd appreciate any opinions on if i should change anything or add something. Nala will be 2 in february, weigh's 33 kg now and i think this is her ideal weight because she doesn't look skinny any more. She does a lot of exercise being in doggy day care five days and on the weekends we go to the beach or the bog we also started agility. I feed her 800g a day. So an average week she gets chicken leg or poultry necks in the morning and for evening she gets mince, heart, liver, rice, egg and veg. She also gets green tripe and fish some days. I started putting salmon oil on her breakfast too. She's not really into bones she sometimes eats them but not every week. Is that ok? Should i be giving any supplements?

DogsFirst · 23-10-2012 1:39pm

That is an absolutely quality diet. Lucky dog.

Don't worry re bones, and all gnaw now and again will do fine. There's loads of bone in the necks so she's getting more than enough there.

Don't worry re supplements. Absolutely no need on that food, vitamin and trace element rich. Leave them for dry fed dogs.

LisaO · 23-10-2012 2:01pm

Have been following this thread with much interest as am now raw feeding 2 of my 3. Spent an hour earlier boiling large pot of rice & cooking veggies in pressure cooker - now all portioned up & in freezer.

Have found a butcher who has loads of stuff ideal (I think) for the dogs: whole pork liver - huge! for 1.99, I cut it up into small chunks (lovely job:() and put some in each meat bag before I freeze them; Big bag of pork bones for a euro; bags of chicken bits (the carcasses, etc after they have taken off fillets) for a euro. Came out with 2 carrier bags for a fiver. Then I buy the marked down packs of mince, chicken legs, etc in Lidl, few tins of sardines & our own duck eggs. I also add salmon oil to the rice & veg mix before I freeze it. Usually make 2 weeks worth at a time. Have to say the dogs love it and have seen great improvements in coats, smell & temperament.

I do have moments of doubt - are they missing out on anything, are they getting too much/not enough of any one thing, are they going to get perforated insides from bits of bones or bones stuck but keep reminding myself that they are dogs, not people, and so are engineered for this way of eating.

Also have the worries of am I feeding the right amount but guess the best way to judge is by eye and the scales and then adjust accordingly.

I would appreciate any suggestions for anything I could add (or should remove) from the menu. My only other concern is our rather stinky staffy. I know they are prone to flatulence as a breed & have been told it will improve as he gets older (7 months at moment). He is very windy - can be really toxic sometimes but more worringly he can often seem uncomfortable after eating. Any suggestions would be most welcome!! Thanks in advance.

Irishchick · 23-10-2012 4:47pm

nala2012 wrote: »

IShe's not really into bones she sometimes eats them but not every week. Is that ok? Should i be giving any supplements?

No its certainly not. Lean muscle is a very poor source of calcium. Ask the butcher if he will grind the bone into a powder that you can sprinkle over the dogs food.

TooManyDogs · 23-10-2012 5:58pm

Friend of mine has a dog who doesn't do well with bones and she washes, drys and grinds up egg shells in her coffee bean grinder. She sprinkles some over each meal and it seems to be working well.

nala2012 · 23-10-2012 6:35pm

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Friend of mine has a dog who doesn't do well with bones and she washes, drys and grinds up egg shells in her coffee bean grinder. She sprinkles some over each meal and it seems to be working well.

I do give her the shells off the eggs. I've heard that giving calcium supplements when not needed do more harm than good so don't want to over dose her.

Irishchick · 23-10-2012 7:05pm

nala2012 wrote: »

I've heard that giving calcium supplements when not needed do more harm than good so don't want to over dose her.

Yes it can. Especially with Giant breeds. It can cause rapid bone growth leading to weakness and joint issues.

DogsFirst · 23-10-2012 8:32pm

Thumbs by one million on that one

bluecherry74 · 10-11-2012 6:43pm

Is it OK to feed raw pork liver without freezing it? I accidentally bought some today instead of lambs liver. I haven't fed any pork meat yet as I wasn't too sure about it.

I also got a giant hunk of roasting beef on the discount shelf.

They'll be dining in style this weekend!

fatmammycat · 10-11-2012 10:02pm

Heh, my guy got two med size mackeral for supper today, without sauce, just whole fish. It was entertaining to watch him work out the 'oh, this is my food! without much effort. Eyes, gills, guts, fins, bones- nommed.

tk123 · 10-11-2012 10:05pm

SO glad my guy is on raw after hearing somebody talk about their dog dying from bloat

If he was still on dry food that would have converted me on the spot!

fatmammycat · 10-11-2012 10:06pm

bluecherry74 wrote: »

Is it OK to feed raw pork liver without freezing it? I accidentally bought some today instead of lambs liver. I haven't fed any pork meat yet as I wasn't too sure about it.

I also got a giant hunk of roasting beef on the discount shelf. They'll be dining in style this weekend!

I'm sure it is. As an aside,does your dog like pork liver? My dog is very uninterested in liver of any kind- he ate it today because he was worried about the cats scoffing it. I feed him a lamb's heart once a week, and lambs' liver once a week, but he's cagey about the liver full stop ( today's was duck).

bluecherry74 · 11-11-2012 8:53am

fatmammycat wrote: »

I'm sure it is. As an aside,does your dog like pork liver? My dog is very uninterested in liver of any kind- he ate it today because he was worried about the cats scoffing it. I feed him a lamb's heart once a week, and lambs' liver once a week, but he's cagey about the liver full stop ( today's was duck).

This is my first time buying the pork liver and I haven't tried it yet. They love lambs liver and beef liver though, I just need to be careful not to give them too big a portion as it can give them the runs.

Funnily enough, the only thing they're reluctant to eat is raw whole mackerel! They'll eat it if it's well chopped up but seem to balk at a whole fish or even big chunks of it.

fatmammycat · 11-11-2012 12:05pm

bluecherry74 wrote: »

This is my first time buying the pork liver and I haven't tried it yet. They love lambs liver and beef liver though, I just need to be careful not to give them too big a portion as it can give them the runs.

Funnily enough, the only thing they're reluctant to eat is raw whole mackerel! They'll eat it if it's well chopped up but seem to balk at a whole fish or even big chunks of it.

Heh, that funy. My lad was looking at them, then back to me for a few minutes; I could see him thinking: 'Hmm, these smell like the things she gives me for lunch, but they're different. Maybe if I lick this one for a few minutes...okay, that's interesting, maybe I'll give this one a crunch and...OH! Fish! I like these.'

LisaO · 12-11-2012 9:33am

Yeah, it's funny when you give them anything new. We tried pigs feet last week & took a little while to figure out. Have to say, they last them for ages!

I give mine pigs liver, have a butcher who sells them whole - massive! I cut it into manageable chunks (lovely job

), freeze & defrost as needed.

Liver seems to be an acquired taste for many dogs, for one of mine, I had to start off with very small cooked pieces at first but now he wolfs it down raw. Our old JRT can't stand it - if you offer him even a tiny piece he will sniff it & nearly get sick!! It's one of the very few things he will happily let the others eat without trying to scoff it all himself

We have had mackerel here too in the last week but only the fillets from Lidl - they were on special offer & then reduced again. The dogs loved them & I would like to feed whole mackerel, which I am sure would be cheaper. Does anyone know if mackerel is in season at the moment & can they be easily got in a fishmongers?

fatmammycat · 12-11-2012 3:06pm

LisaO wrote: »

Yeah, it's funny when you give them anything new. We tried pigs feet last week & took a little while to figure out. Have to say, they last them for ages!

I give mine pigs liver, have a butcher who sells them whole - massive! I cut it into manageable chunks (lovely job ), freeze & defrost as needed.

Liver seems to be an acquired taste for many dogs, for one of mine, I had to start off with very small cooked pieces at first but now he wolfs it down raw. Our old JRT can't stand it - if you offer him even a tiny piece he will sniff it & nearly get sick!! It's one of the very few things he will happily let the others eat without trying to scoff it all himself

We have had mackerel here too in the last week but only the fillets from Lidl - they were on special offer & then reduced again. The dogs loved them & I would like to feed whole mackerel, which I am sure would be cheaper. Does anyone know if mackerel is in season at the moment & can they be easily got in a fishmongers?

You can buy sacks of Mackerel in the Asian market on Drury Street (I am sorry for assuming you're in Dublin, if you're not but I'm sure any Asian food shop have them) whole and mid sized, handy for the freezer, just defrost as required. I think there's 10 to bag, for 5 euros. Pigs feet sounds like a great idea! We've just ordered him an Stag antler too, for the chewing. A friend got one for his dog and it's apparently beyond gleeful as a chew toy.

LisaO · 13-11-2012 10:21am

fatmammycat wrote: »

You can buy sacks of Mackerel in the Asian market on Drury Street (I am sorry for assuming you're in Dublin, if you're not but I'm sure any Asian food shop have them) whole and mid sized, handy for the freezer, just defrost as required. I think there's 10 to bag, for 5 euros. Pigs feet sounds like a great idea! We've just ordered him an Stag antler too, for the chewing. A friend got one for his dog and it's apparently beyond gleeful as a chew toy.

Thanks for the info. No, not in Dublin but will chck out locally. Yeah, the pigs feet are brill, last for ages. Have been toying with the idea of a pigs head but not sure if I can bear to look at it in it's various stages of decomposition, as it would probably last a few days :eek: Plus I'm sure it would lead to "arguments"!! If you give them pig feet, make sure they are somewhere you can clean up easily afterwards as well, they can be a bit messy, what with all the gnawing! Bob likes to eat his outside which is great, Leon usually has his in his crate but he escaped with it once & took it up on the sofa. No bother, as leather sofa so easy to clean but I would not recommend picking up a warm, half-chewed pigs trotter, it was sooo gross:eek:

We have a Stag Bar here for Leon. He loves it for a bit & then goes off it but that seems to be the way with them. Bob is not very interested in it at all, unusual as he is very food driven

DogsFirst · 13-11-2012 10:30am

Funny stuff!! Pigs heads rolling around the garden. You've a tougher gut than I have, and that's saying something. How does your dog find the bones in the trotters? They're damn hard pig bones, full of iron and zinc to support the weight, my girl tends to leave them about the place. Heads must be even harder. Have seen lots of dogs doing away with sheeps heads mind, can't be that much difference.

LisaO · 13-11-2012 10:36am

DogsFirst wrote: »

Funny stuff!! Pigs heads rolling around the garden. You've a tougher gut than I have, and that's saying something. How does your dog find the bones in the trotters? They're damn hard pig bones, full of iron and zinc to support the weight, my girl tends to leave them about the place. Heads must be even harder. Have seen lots of dogs doing away with sheeps heads mind, can't be that much difference.

The trotters are very bony alright! Takes them a good while to get through them. They chew off all the skin, meat & soft bits & then just take their time at the bones. They seem to kind of grind them with their teeth as there are sometimes a few tiny bits left but they always finish them off completely.

DogsFirst · 13-11-2012 10:43am

Yeah, mines the same. It's that grinding action though that I try to avoid with some of the bigger breeders. They have this fear of cracking teeth which is fair enough. It's probably more likely on cow leg bones and pig bones as the teeth clash a bit more. Still though when a dogs been getting a nice raw meaty bone diet all its life you have to assume they're going to have a more robust set of gnashers, its the "4/5 dogs with gum disease by three years" group that you need to worry about.......you know the ones I'm talking about!!!!

vibe666 · 13-11-2012 12:13pm

i might have missed it in the thread, but is there anywhere that has a good guide to feeding raw?

i've been giving ours a mix of various veg to try with spuds or rice and chicken legs/thighs, mackerel and salmon (whatever is cheap) as well as table scraps, but she doesn't seem interested in the veg, even if it's got gravy on it.

veg wise i tried a bag of cooked frozem mixed veg from lid, then fresh carrot, broc, cauli & peas, but she's just not fussed.

i tried hiding the meat under the veg, but she just moves it out of the way to get to the good stuff. i even tried feeding her the veg first when i knew she was hungry, but it didn't make any difference.

she really loves the fresh meat and fish though, she goes mad for it.

DBB · 13-11-2012 12:20pm

I'm sure it was mentioned here, but it might have been another thread.
Have you tried pureeing the veg and mixing it in through minced up meat? I'd only go for a wee bit of veg, and from experience with my dogs anyway, the brassicae (cabbage, kale, cauliflower, sprouts) seem to put dogs off, though they like carrots, green beans, peas... The sweeter veg, maybe?
Have a goosey at www.dogsfirst.ie for more info though!

LisaO · 13-11-2012 1:37pm

I would'nt be giving mine a huge amount of veg - maybe 20% max of their total food intake. Now bear in mind I'm pretty new to this myself, so may be totally wrong on quantities etc.

I mix the veg in with the rice/spuds - again around 20% of their food. I cook up carrots, celery, broccoli, sweet potato, don't peel anything. Then mix into just cooked (hot) rice/spuds with frozen green beans (already cooked pre-freezing, so no need to cook again). I added some spinach to the last batch, again mixed in raw and some shredded mint & rosemary - just cos it was growing in garden & DogsFirst posted here that rosemary is good. I usually add some salmon oil to this mixture as well & then divide it into portions for freezing.

I feed raw meat fo breakfast & then the veg mixture & more meat/fish at dinner. Mine usually scoff the veg mix first, then eat the meat - but they are both greedy pigs!!

DogsFirst · 14-11-2012 6:57pm

Yeah veg can ge good though it's certainly the least important in the mix for a dog. However a little bit, included in the right way (cooked / mashed) allows the dog to get some great nutrition (trace elements and vitamins) that they wouldn't of been able to get out of a whole lump of raw veg. It might cover some stuff that might be missing from your mix depending on how organised you are for the week/ month. I feel that they might help cover up some of the bases you miss by cutting out key bits like eyes (vitamin A), rectum (vitamin E and K) etc!!!!

But the veg these days is as expensive as the meat inclusions so more often than not I just feed meat and bone with some herbs now and again, bit of veg that I'm making myself. Rosemary is excellent immune soother, great for coats and possibly a decent anti-bug, like garlic. Rosemary is the best anti-microbial so a tiny amount in your mix helps preserve it in the fridge.

Kelp is far and away the best, packed full of everything, B vitamins (brilliant for hyper dogs and vitality), trace elements as well as a few polysaccharides that are found only in seaweeds which are proven to do a whole range of things, anti-cancer, aid digestion etc. Miracle stuff. Buy in bulk as it's expensive.

Also like calendula (anti-inflammatory, if you suspect digestive upset say), slippery elm for dickie tums, little bit of fresh garlic, parsley is great. Wormwood for worms (among a number of other things). Anyone got any more?!

DBB · 14-11-2012 7:20pm

Well, I don't know about everyone else, but after the above post, I'll never look at rectums in quite the same way again :-D

juniord · 14-11-2012 8:14pm

cleavers herb can be useful for a range of conditions in pets

DogsFirst · 15-11-2012 1:24pm

DBB wrote: »

Well, I don't know about everyone else, but after the above post, I'll never look at rectums in quite the same way again :-D

Were you looking at many rectums before this?!

Changed to Raw :-)

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