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Prime Time Special - Child Care in Ireland (No Downloads - Please Read Post #1)

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    #212
    twirlagig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,374 ✭✭✭twirlagig


    Only watching now on Rte+1 so I'm an hour behind ye lot. Oh my God - I am sickened :( Hard to take in what I'm watching .... fcuking b1tches! Horrific viewing :mad::mad:


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    #213
    fatbhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 936 ✭✭✭fatbhoy


    Every creche needs to stream webcam feeds of all its rooms over the Internet, accessible via authentication to clients. We should trust no creche, nor their workers. Streaming live video of every inch of the creche premises is the only way forward. And it wouldn't cost much to implement.


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    #214
    oreilly1979
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭oreilly1979


    tayto lover wrote: »
    CCTV should be a requirement in order to get a licence for these establishments.
    Cameras all over the place and recorders too.
    Abusing children should never be tolerated. The Garda should be involved now. Prosecutions should ensue.


    A secure web sign in would surely stop any inappropriate use of web cam images where only parents had access to check in on the what was happening (most folk work on PC's these days and will check from work anyway...) - recon it'd be the only way to stop this, give peace of mind etc...


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    #215
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    robclay26 wrote: »
    These reports need to be online available to the public And it has to be done now!!!!!!! HSE me arse!


    For those that don't want to wait. You can FOI request the reports. It costs a little but though.

    My incredibly intelligent better half did it when we were choosing between two nearby crèches.

    It made the decision pretty obvious to us.


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    #216
    Sniipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭Sniipe


    gosplan wrote: »
    For those that don't want to wait. You can FOI request the reports. It costs a little but though.

    My incredibly intelligent better half did it when we were choosing between two nearby crèches.

    It made the decision pretty obvious to us.
    Could one get the information and then post it to all the public? Surely RTE would have done this?


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    #217
    Vego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Vego


    There was something in the news that at the end of last week where they will be making the reports accessible to the general public by this week


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    #218
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Can't believe this isn't going to be put online.

    What are the odds this will make itself available on the internet somehow? Really want to see it and missed it.


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    #219
    marxo
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭marxo


    denis160 wrote: »
    Do low wages really justify what some of these workers are doing? Basic human decency, compassion and kindness is what they lacked, trained or not.

    absolutely.


    That was terribly upsetting to watch, although I'm not exactly surprised, similar stories, worse even came out in the 80s and 90s. IT wouldn't surprise me if that's not as bad as it gets.
    I was never put in a crèche when I was a child because my mother was dead set against them.
    Although I'm only 24 and building a career, I always thought I would consider child care when I eventually had children. Having watched this programme I will never under any circumstance put my child into a crèche.

    Even if the children weren't being abused, man handled and shouted at, this conveyer belt system of care is all wrong anyway! a child that small should be in the loving arms of either one of their parents. It doesn't make any sense for a stranger to be looking after 11 toddlers who should be with their own parents. It's so expensive anyway so the excuse of having to work is just that, an excuse. Pure selfishness. Much easier going to the 9-5 rather than being at home all day.

    Unless you are willing to take 4-5 years off work (to look after your own child with proper care, and their own mothers love and affection) you should not be having children!


    ..and that vicious woman with the blond hair who told the child she would put the food in the bin and had him strapped into the chair for lengthy periods whilst he was in floods of tears, should face criminal prosecution, as should the woman with the northern accent from links childcare.


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    #220
    Stavro Mueller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭Stavro Mueller


    oreilly1979 wrote: »
    A secure web sign in would surely stop any inappropriate use of web cam images where only parents had access to check in on the what was happening (most folk work on PC's these days and will check from work anyway...) - recon it'd be the only way to stop this, give peace of mind etc...

    Some people don't want strangers looking at their kids via CCTV apparently. I can understand to a point where they're coming from but what was shown tonight was disturbing stuff. I wonder what would the parents of the kids who featured on the programme have to say about that? Which is for the greater good?


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    #221
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    marxo wrote: »
    It's so expensive anyway so the excuse of having to work is just that, an excuse. Pure selfishness. Much easier going to the 9-5 rather than being at home all day.

    Unless you are willing to take 4-5 years off work (to look after your own child with proper care, and their own mothers love and affection) you should not be having children!
    What a knee jerk nonsensical comment. But I expect more of the same throughout the wider media and online over the coming days.


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    #222
    chris85
    Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    Really am appalled by this. Not even a father or anything but that doesnt matter here. this is just human decency. Unsure what to do about it at this time of the night but I have sent an email to minister for children, Frances Fitzgerald, now for her failure to put herself (or send a representative) for the broadcast.

    This is obviously not the only thing wrong with the whole thing but felt necessary to ensure one of our public representative was aware of my feeling on an important matter.
    Sent to: frances.fitzgerald@oireachtas.ie

    To Frances Fitzgerald,

    I am writing this in reference to this evenings Prime Time special entitled "Breach of Trust" relating to inadequacies of our early child care facilities. I am not a parent but a young man who would hope to raise a family in the future in this country.

    My main point for you, as our Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, is to how you did not see fit to attend the Prime Time program in order to put forward the view of the government and the department for which you are the head of. If you were unavailable for this very important issue I am surprised you didn't feel the need to send a representative of your department.

    All sides need to take some responsibility and set forward how to improve the industry with the primary focus being the well being and nurturing of the children. Everyone needs to work together to make this happen and learn from the mistakes made in the past and to ensure this doesn't continue to happen.

    I look forward to either your response to this email or your public response to the broadcast which I am sure you will give promptly.

    Regards,

    Chris


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    #223
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,877 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    I know this won't be repeated on RTE player but is there anywhere I could watch this? I missed it and want to watch it :/


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    #224
    robclay26
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭robclay26


    chris85 wrote: »
    Really am appalled by this. Not even a father or anything but that doesnt matter here. this is just human decency. Unsure what to do about it at this time of the night but I have sent an email to minister for children, Frances Fitzgerald, now for her failure to put herself (or send a representative) for the broadcast.

    This is obviously not the only thing wrong with the whole thing but felt necessary to ensure one of our public representative was aware of my feeling on an important matter.

    Fair fecking play to ye Chris! Would you mind if I copy and email it too please? More people the better! It's very well put together.


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    #225
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    cymbaline wrote: »
    Some people don't want strangers looking at their kids via CCTV apparently. I can understand to a point where they're coming from but what was shown tonight was disturbing stuff. I wonder what would the parents of the kids who featured on the programme have to say about that? Which is for the greater good?

    Even an audio feed would have them minding what they where doing. Or they should be made to have cctv footage available to be viewed by parents when they wanted to. Would keep managers on their toes to make sure nothing untoward was going on.


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    #226
    monflat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭monflat


    marxo wrote: »
    absolutely.


    That was terribly upsetting to watch, although I'm not exactly surprised, similar stories, worse even came out in the 80s and 90s. IT wouldn't surprise me if that's not as bad as it gets.
    I was never put in a crèche when I was a child because my mother was dead set against them.
    Although I'm only 24 and building a career, I always thought I would consider child care when I eventually had children. Having watched this programme I will never under any circumstance put my child into a crèche.

    Even if the children weren't being abused, man handled and shouted at, this conveyer belt system of care is all wrong anyway! a child that small should be in the loving arms of either one of their parents. It doesn't make any sense for a stranger to be looking after 11 toddlers who should be with their own parents. It's so expensive anyway so the excuse of having to work is just that, an excuse. Pure selfishness. Much easier going to the 9-5 rather than being at home all day.

    Unless you are willing to take 4-5 years off work (to look after your own child with proper care, and their own mothers love and affection) you should not be having children!


    ..and that vicious woman with the blond hair who told the child she would put the food in the bin and had him strapped into the chair for lengthy periods whilst he was in floods of tears, should face criminal prosecution, as should the woman with the northern accent from links childcare.



    Never say never

    Working mothers who quit their jobs to look after their children are not necessarily entitled to any financial assistance from the state EVEN IF they had paid taxes for Years


    I find your comments to be quite insulting


    You are saying those mothers who stay at home and give full tine care to their children are more conscientious and better mothers than those mothers who send their children to a creche to pay for a creche and another bill or two with **** all money left at the end of it



    You may be 24 in age but not mature to see what REAL PARENTS have to do


    Its a major government issue if those grants of up to half a million pwr crèche went some how to help working mothers spend sone time at home then lots of women would gladly stay at home


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    #227
    racso1975
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭racso1975


    I really hope they talked to the parents before broadcasting this cause if i only found out about this happening to my child tonight well i could well be facing gbh charges tomorrow.

    What also sivkens me is if you go on any of those creche websites not a word mentioned about it.


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    #228
    Stavro Mueller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭Stavro Mueller


    True...though an audio feed might be easier to tamper with? The problem is that you can never totally trust any creche to treat kids properly. You need some sort of outside force to police it.


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    #229
    chris85
    Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    robclay26 wrote: »
    Fair fecking play to ye Chris! Would you mind if I copy and email it too please? More people the better! It's very well put together.

    Yeah no problem. The more the better so if anyone else wants to copy it go for it.


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    #230
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    chris85 wrote: »
    Really am appalled by this. Not even a father or anything but that doesnt matter here. this is just human decency. Unsure what to do about it at this time of the night but I have sent an email to minister for children, Frances Fitzgerald, now for her failure to put herself (or send a representative) for the broadcast.

    This is obviously not the only thing wrong with the whole thing but felt necessary to ensure one of our public representative was aware of my feeling on an important matter.

    Apparantly, she'll be on Morning Ireland tomorrow morning discussing tonight's program and it's implications, along with a representative from the HSE.

    http://inagist.com/all/339376526388764672/


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    #231
    chris85
    Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    racso1975 wrote: »
    I really hope they talked to the parents before broadcasting this cause if i only found out about this happening to my child tonight well i could well be facing gbh charges tomorrow.

    What also sivkens me is if you go on any of those creche websites not a word mentioned about it.

    AFAIK, the recording was viewed by HSE, gardai and parents of children in the creches prior to broadcast this evening.


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    #232
    Skid X
    Registered Users Posts: 21,444 ✭✭✭✭Skid X


    From Twitter
    For those asking, we expect HSE on #MorningIreland after 8am, and Minister Fitzgerald after 830am. #rtept

    https://twitter.com/MurphyVincent


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    #233
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    cymbaline wrote: »
    Some people don't want strangers looking at their kids via CCTV apparently. I can understand to a point where they're coming from but what was shown tonight was disturbing stuff. ?
    Surely they'd see that being able to see that their child's welfare is being looked after is far far more important than the minuscule risk that someone out there has somehow got access to a secure login and is looking at a grainy camera feed of children playing?


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    #234
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,877 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    If anyone locates this online or if RTE DO decide to broadcast it, let me know. I'm raging I missed it. I work with children and some of the things I've heard about this programme have me in disbelief.


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    #235
    EyeSight
    Registered Users Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭EyeSight


    i don't wanna derail the thread, but some of the comments about "selfish" parents who use creches are uncalled for. Not everyone can survive on one income and some people don't have a spouse to rely on. What would you rather they do? Not all creches are bad, i was in a great one as a kid.

    I think parents assumed the HSE would have a bigger role in policing and inspections, but they showed themselves to be a joke. I guarantee you we will get a BS statement, some new guidelines and a "report" which will buy the politicians some time before it all blows over(it'll cost millions too for some reason)
    Inspections won't do much, of course they will be on their best behaviour with someone standing over them

    Why won't RTE repeat this? i only caught the end :(


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    #236
    cfc.forever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭cfc.forever


    The people on the program should be named and shamed, no child deserves to go through that, I can see this being on top of the media for a while.. I can't believe people on the program pitted the people working there because of there low-pay, they should still use there logic on how to work with children. Inadequate training and little pay is no excuse, although it certainly needs to be addressed.


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    #237
    robclay26
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭robclay26


    Slightly off topic , but the report isn't available on rte player?? Only the studio debate with Claire Byrne and the 4 on the panel.
    Anybody know what the craic is? I missed the start of the report


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    #238
    GT_TDI_150
    Registered Users Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    marxo wrote: »
    absolutely.


    That was terribly upsetting to watch, although I'm not exactly surprised, similar stories, worse even came out in the 80s and 90s. IT wouldn't surprise me if that's not as bad as it gets.
    I was never put in a crèche when I was a child because my mother was dead set against them.
    Although I'm only 24 and building a career, I always thought I would consider child care when I eventually had children. Having watched this programme I will never under any circumstance put my child into a crèche.

    Even if the children weren't being abused, man handled and shouted at, this conveyer belt system of care is all wrong anyway! a child that small should be in the loving arms of either one of their parents. It doesn't make any sense for a stranger to be looking after 11 toddlers who should be with their own parents. It's so expensive anyway so the excuse of having to work is just that, an excuse. Pure selfishness. Much easier going to the 9-5 rather than being at home all day.

    Unless you are willing to take 4-5 years off work (to look after your own child with proper care, and their own mothers love and affection) you should not be having children!


    ..and that vicious woman with the blond hair who told the child she would put the food in the bin and had him strapped into the chair for lengthy periods whilst he was in floods of tears, should face criminal prosecution, as should the woman with the northern accent from links childcare.

    In no way do i condone what the evil staff were shown to be doing in the prime time show,nor am i picking on the quoted reply in particular but there have been a few replies here now which seem to put responsibility at the parents door for even considering putting their kids in creches/play school...

    Thing arent that simple, for many couples it is financially not possible for one to give up work to mind the kids, mortgages and bills still need paying, food and other daily basics still need to be provided. At the end of the day if child care cost 1000p/m and the parents take home pay is 1200p/m, by staying home and minding the kid the household is down 200p/m that is probably a1-2wk grocery budget.

    A lot of parent probably didnt intend on going the creche route but cant afford not too


    Also, and the following is from personal experience where does an only child make friends etc when they arent afforded some time with their peers?! Eventhough my wife doesnt work our little fellow attends playschool 2 mornings a week and has blossomed since he started, where else does an only child of three years old get play with and learn with other 3yr olds. He is an only child, am i meant to go knocking on peoples doors asking to borrow their kids for a morning?!

    And ... I would like to think you get a good idea of the person minding the kids by holding a coversation with them, turning up early to collect ghe kids every so often - an inpromptue inspection as it were...


    And remember not all creches/ childcare personel are evil!!


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    #239
    chris85
    Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    My presumption of the broadcast not being shown on the player it may not be helpful to the parents of these children to have the footage circulating constantly.


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    #240
    Dstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Dstep


    Anyone know where I can watch this? I was in work and missed it!!


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    #241
    Concerned123
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Concerned123


    Our little girl was in a Giraffe creche for a period of eight months until end of 2012. Several of the incidences shown on this program have confirmed our suspicions and many of the issues we raised with management in Giraffe.1. On numerous occasions upon collecting our child we found her strapped in a chair this is mostly when we arrived unexpectedly 2. We collected her at 11am one morning because she was unwell to find her diary complete up to 5pm stating what a wonderful day she had all her food etc 3. In her diary the carer paid reference to the fact that she loved clapping her hands to music...my daughter didn't start doing that for at least anrother 3 months...4. On a different occasion we arrived to find severe bruising on her face and a black eye which we were told was a direct result of her trying to get up from the chair too fast and slamming her face off the table - which was similar to footage on program tonight whereby infant was strapped to chair and hit their head off table. 5 on numerous occasions her nappy wasn't changed and it appeared to be like that for hours 6. There were various times when the number of carers were inadequate or number of children left in the room and all the infants seemed to be moved around from day to day to suit shortages of staff. It got to the point where we had to search for our daughter in the evening because we didn't know what room she would be in. 7. the last room our daughter was put in was an extremely unpleasant experience 1 carer in particular was extremely loud and the other seemed ill-equipped to deal with infants. It got to the point that my child would start crying in the car when we went down the slip road on exit 16 and when I brought her to this particular room she was absolutely inconsolable - this went on for a number of days and when I raised it with a carer for the last time I was more or less given a lecture on how hard it is to mind so many children - can't take the pressure and having problems at home - this carer's behaviour actually really concerned me so much so that I thought she may have done herself some harm - I raised my concerns with the manager of the creche and requested my child be moved immediately and to possible get some help for the carer or at least supervise her. The next day we were confronted by the other carer stating that under pressure etc and arguing that they were doing nothing wrong - Once my child was moved from that room she was less upset and it has since come to my attention that both carers are still together in the same room and their behaviour remains the same. We are completely devastated as parents having witnessed that footage tonight and it seems to me that Giraffes policy is to employ anyone off the street without doing the necessary checks to ensure their competency -Whats even more distressing is that Giraffe have only suspended the employee that was abusive to the infants in their footage- that says a hell of a lot about their policy and their priorities!! We were paying almost 1000 per month for our daughter to be nourished and cared for and I would hate to think of what pain my little one endured it really is preying heavily on my mind - only hope it hasn't caused too much long term damage. RTE should be given a medal for highlighting these abuses and hopefully this will force the government and HSE to ensure that all carers are properly vetted and educated to a high standard with no exceptions


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