Reduced Capacity on Peak service

SeanW · 20-11-2013 1:27am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The 19:05 last Friday Foggy is not the only Sligo train.

All the peak hour Sligo and Longford trains have healthy loadings. On Friday evenings it should be expected to be worse.

ArmaniJeanss · 20-11-2013 1:28am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

This is Ireland, try telling someone that they cant get on or off at a stop when a train stops there and see what happens. Once the doors are open then they will get on or off.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Do you suggest to delay the train so that you can unload all the Maynooth passengers. If Irish Rail attempted to do that then this board would be on overload.
Are you suggesting also that the Sligo train becomes a secret train just for those going past Maynooth and that they sneek onto it without the others seeing??????

You are confusing the rights and wrong of the proposal (for all I know you may be correct that its unnecessary) with the ease of implementation of it.
Its actually relatively easy to do and has plenty of precedents as per the NY example given earlier.
All it needs is the removal of the Maynooth stop from information boards/web, a specific on-train announcement that 'this train will not be stopping at Maynooth', and an increased presence of ticket checkers on board for the first few weeks plus other enforcement staff at the Maynooth end for the same few weeks handing out warnings (and after a few days fines and confiscation of travel cards).

Theres nothing there that IR aren't capable of doing with a bit of effort, and nothing that Irish people aren't capable of understanding after an inital WTF period.

Hilly Bill · 20-11-2013 1:31am

SeanW wrote: »

That's one way.

The other would be to take a leaf from the book of the Metro North Railroad in New York and have RPU officers on the train from Connolly to Maynooth, checking tickets.

Though given that the difference in fares between GCT-Fordham and GCT-Stamford is potentially much larger than Connolly-Maynooth and Connolly-Kilcock, the disincentive would have to be the the penalty fare. You could still beat it by buying a one-way Maynooth-Connolly in the morning and a Connolly-Kilcock in the evening but that would be expensive.

DUH! Connolly-Maynooth faces many of the same issues with rat-running as Grand Central Terminal to Fordham does, and the option of implementing a restricted-stop regime should be open.

No, the Sligo/Longford trains are busy, full stop, and Irish Rail is dicking around with the carriage-lengths. If the Connolly-Maynooth loading gets any larger, or they continue running peak hour trains with 4 carriages, there will be a need to examine how the Maynooth stop is implemented.

Plenty of seats available on the 17:05 and the 4 piece 19:05 today.
What sense would it be to have prevented any Maynooth passengers from boarding that train and forcing them to use the commuter off platform 7 which would be standing room only already?

Hilly Bill · 20-11-2013 1:32am

SeanW wrote: »

All the peak hour Sligo and Longford trains have healthy loadings. On Friday evenings it should be expected to be worse.

And thats when the extra carriage would come in handy .

Hilly Bill · 20-11-2013 1:38am

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

You are confusing the rights and wrong of the proposal (for all I know you may be correct that its unnecessary) with the ease of implementation of it.
Its actually relatively easy to do and has plenty of precedents as per the NY example given earlier.
All it needs is the removal of the Maynooth stop from information boards/web, a specific on-train announcement that 'this train will not be stopping at Maynooth', and an increased presence of ticket checkers on board for the first few weeks plus other enforcement staff at the Maynooth end for the same few weeks handing out warnings (and after a few days fines and confiscation of travel cards).

Theres nothing there that IR aren't capable of doing with a bit of effort, and nothing that Irish people aren't capable of understanding after an inital WTF period.

Cant you see the amounts of complaints we would get on here if someone had paid for a ticket to Maynooth and then be fined for getting off at Maynooth?

Fred Swanson · 20-11-2013 1:39am

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SeanW · 20-11-2013 1:40am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Cant you see the amounts of complaints we would get on here if someone had paid for a ticket to Maynooth and then be fined for getting off at Maynooth?

If they were warned in advance of the policy and decided to do it anyway, they would have very little grounds for complaints.

Victor · 20-11-2013 1:43am

foggy_lad wrote: »

What are you smoking?

No need for such comments.

Moderator

ArmaniJeanss · 20-11-2013 1:43am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Cant you see the amounts of complaints we would get on here if someone had paid for a ticket to Maynooth and then be fined for getting off at Maynooth?

I've no doubt there'd be many alright, loads and loads at first.

And we'd patiently explain the rules much as we explain them to the regular 'I turned up late completely through someone elses fault, and there was a queue at the machine and my train was going to pull out so I hopped on expecting to pay at my destination and they fined me even though I was able to pay on board back in 1997' posters who genuinely think they've done nothing wrong.

We'd say 'thems the rules, pay the fine or take your chance in court'.

Hilly Bill · 20-11-2013 1:47am

SeanW wrote: »

If they were warned in advance of the policy and decided to do it anyway, they would have very little grounds for complaints.

That wouldnt stop the "Unfair fine" threads popping up .

Hilly Bill · 20-11-2013 1:49am

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I've no doubt there'd be many alright, loads and loads at first.

And we'd patiently explain the rules much as we explain them to the regular 'I turned up late completely through someone elses fault, and there was a queue at the machine and my train was going to pull out so I hopped on expecting to pay at my destination and they fined me even though I was able to pay on board back in 1997' posters who genuinely think they've done nothing wrong.

We'd say 'thems the rules, pay the fine or take your chance in court'.

Would you stop someone using a service even if there is plenty of room on it and forcing them onto a busier train?

animaal · 20-11-2013 4:31pm

This whole thread has me scratching my head. Irish Rail isn't meeting the demand that exists, and the customers then argue with each other about which of them has more right to fill the reduced space...?

Surely Irish Rail should be meeting the demand that exists? Not trying to make life so uncomfortable for the customer base that demand shrinks to meet the capacity they have in mind.

If there's too much demand for a particular service, why not add more carriages? Or schedule two trains a few minutes apart (as close together as is safe)?

I fail to see the logic in reducing the number of paying customers, while complaining about reduced revenues.

Hilly Bill · 22-11-2013 8:24pm

To the people on the 18.00 to Longford i sympathise with you. Over 100 people standing. Not good at all and that was before leaving Connolly.

LXFlyer · 22-11-2013 9:06pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

To the people on the 18.00 to Longford i sympathise with you. Over 100 people standing. Not good at all and that was before leaving Connolly.

The real question was how many were standing after Maynooth.

Jamie2k9 · 22-11-2013 9:32pm

An info on the size of 15.00 and 19.00 to Sligo sets were restored?

Hilly Bill · 22-11-2013 10:37pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The real question was how many were standing after Maynooth.

The real question??? I'd say plenty.

Hilly Bill · 22-11-2013 10:44pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

An info on the size of 15.00 and 19.00 to Sligo sets were restored?

19:00 was a 6 piece which was full as well , it was 7 piece yesterday.

Its not going to get any better soon. You might see a bit more 29 sets on that route.

Jamie2k9 · 23-11-2013 12:50am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

19:00 was a 6 piece which was full as well , it was 7 piece yesterday.

Its not going to get any better soon. You might see a bit more 29 sets on that route.

Would be interested to know what lost out as a result as the 15.10 to Waterford was restored to 6 piece. Another week another drama unfolded on this service. I'm pretty sure the 13.15 was cut last week and restored this week also.

SeanW · 23-11-2013 4:00pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The real question was how many were standing after Maynooth.

A few less, but it was still not much fun.

dowlingm · 23-11-2013 9:09pm

Dragging an extra engine between Maynooth and Sligo and back at 6 Eur/km seems like a waste to me if the passengers it would be needed to carry can be accommodated on another service terminating in Maynooth. A more comfortable long haul service can thereby be a more attractive and thus patronised service by long haul passengers, helping IE's bottom line by increasing passenger/mile ratio to seat/mile. Obviously a look at the loads west of Maynooth would determine just how sharp the drop off is, but IE isn't an open public body as it should be in this respect.

Because IE is both commuter and intercity operator there is not the ability to differentiate the way that can be done where there is separation, like how VIA Rail Canada will not sell a ticket Toronto-Guildwood or Guildwood-Toronto and a GO Transit ticket cannot be used to board the same service. Also, the queuing system I proposed upthread previously with a priority queue and a general boarding queue *would* allow Maynooth passengers to use standing room or unoccupied seats to ensure capacity is not wasted Connolly-Maynooth, but prioritising those customers who paid IE the most that day, the intercity and outer suburban users.

Hilly Bill, I know it's comforting to say "ah sure we can't, 'tis Ireland, people feel entitled..." but IE is losing hundreds of millions at a time when that money is simply not there to be wasted. Queuing priority, exit validation and other measures can get the biggest fare revenue and the most passengers out of available rolling stock while increasing overall passenger comfort. Adding expenses by lengthening stock to cover a fraction of the diagram accommodating passengers who have an alternative isn't the way to go.

Adopting such a system would also allow reinstatement of a stop already withheld, Drogheda on the 1650 Mon-Sat Enterprise ex Connolly, to allow passengers for Newry and points north to board, not least since there is no prior service permitting a Drogheda-Dundalk-(connection)-Newry journey.

LXFlyer · 23-11-2013 9:42pm

Just to point out that there was never a stop on the 16:50 to Belfast at Drogheda, and until recently it didn't stop at Dundalk.

That service is supposed to be the key business train to Belfast - as such it should be making the minimum number of stops as with the 17:00 to Cork - realistically it should be first stop Newry.

corktina · 24-11-2013 3:35pm

Are there still ICR carriages stored out of use? If so it would seem that more units should be increased in length using those vehicles. Certainly, if there are those levels standing on the Maynooth line, there is a case for an express service omitting key commuter stations which can be served by a closely following stopper. After all 100 standing is more than half a 3 car unit on it's own

Fred Swanson · 24-11-2013 3:37pm

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corktina · 24-11-2013 4:03pm

if so, what justification can there be for standing passengers?

Fred Swanson · 24-11-2013 4:04pm

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LXFlyer · 24-11-2013 4:19pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There were something like 4 sets taken out of use, on rotation, over the normal maintenance spares. That hardly makes the depot "full" of unused ICR sets.

corktina wrote: »

Are there still ICR carriages stored out of use? If so it would seem that more units should be increased in length using those vehicles. Certainly, if there are those levels standing on the Maynooth line, there is a case for an express service omitting key commuter stations which can be served by a closely following stopper. After all 100 standing is more than half a 3 car unit on it's own

The sets that were out on rotation are I understand being brought back into use once this reformation process is completed, but two more Mark 4 sets are going into storage. The ICR sets will replace them.

I think that people need to remember a few things here:

1) There is a maintenance budget within which IE are constrained - in other words they can only afford to operate a certain number of trains - there is not a bottomless pit of money available. That's the reality within which the company have to operate.

2) Standing on a commuter service within the Short Hop area is a fact of life. The figure of (allegedly) 100 standing was on a 4 car 29k, which was on the 18:05 to Longford, that already runs non-stop to Maynooth, which should be able to comfortably take that. There is a stopping service to Maynooth after that service.

There will be a new timetable in the new year sometime, and that will in all probability have revised stopping patterns where they are needed that reflect the revised set sizes.

corktina · 24-11-2013 4:46pm

1) why did they buy them then if they are so careful with our money? So much Capital has been blown by IE over the past few years, will they get held to account one day ? (IMO)

2) A Sligo or Longford train is not a Commuter service. There should , it seems to me be a service non-stop past Maynooth that does not serve the commuter area so that long-distance passengers get a seat

end of the road · 24-11-2013 5:03pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

while the people on the rosslare still have to suffer 29 k operation on some services

LXFlyer · 24-11-2013 5:07pm

corktina wrote: »

1) why did they buy them then if they are so careful with our money? So much Capital has been blown by IE over the past few years, will they get held to account one day ? (IMO)

2) A Sligo or Longford train is not a Commuter service. There should , it seems to me be a service non-stop past Maynooth that does not serve the commuter area so that long-distance passengers get a seat

The lead in time in buying trains is significant. All of the trains were ordered before any sign of the economic collapse appeared. When they were ordered every public transport operator in the country was growing.

Or perhaps you have a crystal ball that foresaw the recession coming, but decided to tell no one?

I'm sorry, but the Longford service is a commuter service, just as those to Dundalk are. As for not stopping in Maynooth - I'm not sure that the people that join the train in Maynooth would be very happy with that idea.

That train is now usually an 8 piece 29k, but on Friday it was reduced as I believe they were strengthening other Sligo services to ensure that everyone got on to them. Hence you end up with sets juggled about a bit.

end of the road · 24-11-2013 5:17pm

great, more money down the drain, the mark 4s are 7/8 years old, we scrapped the mark 3s and wasted money on these and now IE are going to "store" them, and replace them with ICRS while other long distance lines suffer 29 k operation still, the transport minister should be sacked and jailed for allowing such waste to continue, he's ultimately responsible for not monitoring where the money goes and making sure that what its spent on gets used, but what would one expect, a line deliberately ran down having most of its stations demolished to turn people away from using it and then it being sacrificed 30 years later by having the service stolen by IE and the bunch of wasters in the NTA, to be replaced with a bus service that takes double the time and doesn't serve half the places the train did, just so a line which has less usage after having 106000000 spent on reopening it only for it to probably damage the good work that was done on one of the sections to get a commuter service up and running can suck more subsidy and so some politician can say how they got something for the wesht, banana republic indeed, but we must get on with it and mustn't complain

corktina · 24-11-2013 5:20pm

perfectly good mk3s scrapped before their time, a yard full of withdrawn modern commuter units in Limerick and no doubt elsewhere, almost new Mk4's stored, most of the relatively modern 201s withdrawn or stored, brand new 22s out of service.....how can you defend such a track record?

end of the road · 24-11-2013 5:20pm

corktina wrote: »

1) why did they buy them then if they are so careful with our money? So much Capital has been blown by IE over the past few years, will they get held to account one day ? (IMO)

2) A Sligo or Longford train is not a Commuter service. There should , it seems to me be a service non-stop past Maynooth that does not serve the commuter area so that long-distance passengers get a seat

theirs more chance of the west cork railway reopening then IE being held to acount, and as the chance of west cork reopening is 0 as it was made sure it wouldn't then i'd say the chance of IE being held to acount is -0

Fred Swanson · 24-11-2013 5:23pm

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end of the road · 24-11-2013 5:28pm

corktina wrote: »

perfectly good mk3s scrapped before their time, a yard full of withdrawn modern commuter units in Limerick and no doubt elsewhere, almost new Mk4's stored, most of the relatively modern 201s withdrawn or stored, brand new 22s out of service.....how can you defend such a track record?

theirs no defence of it, none, irish rail have a problem managing their rolling stock, people can try make excuses for it all they like but theirs none, the 2700s should be operating the cork commuter as that service is only ever 2 carriges anyway and the 2700s can't couple together anymore, then the 2600s and 2800s could be operating ballina, the limerick shuttle and some could strengthen dublin commuter services freeing up ICRS, however IE in their wisdom removed the gangways from these units (and they probably can't be put back on) so they have really screwed up any opportunities here, but what would you expect

LXFlyer · 24-11-2013 5:28pm

corktina wrote: »

perfectly good mk3s scrapped before their time, a yard full of withdrawn modern commuter units in Limerick and no doubt elsewhere, almost new Mk4's stored, most of the relatively modern 201s withdrawn or stored, brand new 22s out of service.....how can you defend such a track record?

I'm looking at the situation that the company find themselves in financially - there simply is not the money there to operate all of the trains that they have. Now if you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore that, by all means do so - but they cannot.

Frankly if the 22k sets hadn't been ordered, I would fear things would be far worse. Bear in mind that the number of services operated today across the network is much greater now than it could ever have been or indeed ever was with the locomotive hauled sets. The cost of running them is also far less, given you no longer need shunters or guards.

Some people here just don't want to accept that there are financial constraints within which the company, as with every company in Ireland, has to operate, and that they simply cannot afford to do everything.

I'd like to think that I am reacting to it within that context - rather than "defending" them.

I'd imagine that the current management would never have ordered the Mark 4 sets frankly - I think that they were a mistake to be honest.

end of the road · 24-11-2013 5:42pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm looking at the situation that the company find themselves in financially - there simply is not the money there to operate all of the trains that they have. Now if you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore that, by all means do so - but they cannot.

Frankly if the 22k sets hadn't been ordered, I would fear things would be far worse. Bear in mind that the number of services operated today across the network is much greater now than it could ever have been or indeed ever was with the locomotive hauled sets. The cost of running them is also far less, given you no longer need shunters or guards.

Some people here just don't want to accept that there are financial constraints within which the company, as with every company in Ireland, has to operate, and that they simply cannot afford to do everything.

I'd like to think that I am reacting to it within that context - rather than "defending" them.

I'd imagine that the current management would never have ordered the Mark 4 sets frankly - I think that they were a mistake to be honest.

well they should have thought of the financial side when splashing out on new loco hauled carriges for the cork line and commuter stock that is now awaiting the breakers its all well saying "ah shur we'l buy new trains and itl be grand" but i'm paying for it, your paying for it, so therefore i demand they put what they buy to work

bikeman1 · 24-11-2013 5:47pm

I'd imagine the current management wouldn't have ordered all the 22s and taken the extra money and used it to maintain the good service they had. Instead of having nearly twice as many trains as they need.

It is a national disgrace and huge waste of public money what Iarnrod Eireann have allowed to go on. And I don't except the argument that nobody could see the recession coming. They, like everyone at the time, got easy money, wanted loads of new trains and no "old" trains. So they got a blank cheque and are left with this mess.

We will have the following in a few months:

Mk3 sets, perfectly good for service, all withdrawn. Approx 10 good sets. UK has Mk3s whizzing up and down at 125mph with slam doors which are older than ours.

3 push pull sets. One man operation. Perfect long distance commuter trains. Withdrawn.

201-205,210-214 plus 2 more all out of service. Barely half way through their life.

8200 DARTs, complete waste barely used.

2700s stored, surplus to requirement. After money was spent removing gangway doors and repainting??

Mk4s, 7 sets, only 3 to remain in traffic. Remember, each carriage costed 1m on average. Further 201s to be stopped.

22000s - As mentioned 4 sets surplus to requirement excluding maintenance spares. The ballsed up the order and ordered the wrong set sizes / 3 and 6 cars. Now they are spending money re-forming and loosing loyal customers in the process as it all has to be done asap.

How in Gods name can anyone be proud of what were extremely poor decisions by management in the past? The scale of waste is unbelievable, and that is only rolling stock.

Nobody can defend this in my opinion.

LXFlyer · 24-11-2013 5:48pm

end of the road wrote: »

well they should have thought of the financial side when splashing out on new loco hauled carriges for the cork line and commuter stock that is now awaiting the breakers its all well saying "ah shur we'l buy new trains and itl be grand" but i'm paying for it, your paying for it, so therefore i demand they put what they buy to work

Right so - then you are suggesting that you just simply ignore the changed financial situation that the country finds itself in now, as compared when those trains were ordered and delivered?

I'm no happier than anyone else to see trains not being in service, but if there is not enough money to do it, then they have no choice but to make hard decisions like this.

LXFlyer · 24-11-2013 5:51pm

bikeman1 wrote: »

I'd imagine the current management wouldn't have ordered all the 22s and taken the extra money and used it to maintain the good service they had. Instead of having nearly twice as many trains as they need.

It is a national disgrace and huge waste of public money what Iarnrod Eireann have allowed to go on. And I don't except the argument that nobody could see the recession coming. They, like everyone at the time, got easy money, wanted loads of new trains and no "old" trains. So they got a blank cheque and are left with this mess.

We will have the following in a few months:

Mk3 sets, perfectly good for service, all withdrawn. Approx 10 good sets. UK has Mk3s whizzing up and down at 125mph with slam doors which are older than ours.

3 push pull sets. One man operation. Perfect long distance commuter trains. Withdrawn.

201-205,210-214 plus 2 more all out of service. Barely half way through their life.

8200 DARTs, complete waste barely used.

2700s stored, surplus to requirement. After money was spent removing gangway doors and repainting??

Mk4s, 7 sets, only 3 to remain in traffic. Remember, each carriage costed 1m on average. Further 201s to be stopped.

22000s - As mentioned 4 sets surplus to requirement excluding maintenance spares. The ballsed up the order and ordered the wrong set sizes / 3 and 6 cars. Now they are spending money re-forming and loosing loyal customers in the process as it all has to be done asap.

How in Gods name can anyone be proud of what were extremely poor decisions by management in the past? The scale of waste is unbelievable, and that is only rolling stock.

Nobody can defend this in my opinion.

I agree with you - I don't think you can defend that.

I'm merely looking at the situation as it stands - and people just need to realise that the current senior management (most of whom were not in place when all of the above decisions were made) have got to work within the financial constraints that they find themselves.

foggy_lad · 24-11-2013 8:08pm

There are 22000sets running empty between Docklands/Connolly to M3 Parkway when some two car 2800s would do perfectly, There are also several of these 22000s being used on the Maynooth Commuter service as well as on the little used western rail corridor.

Yet there are several intercity services which are run using dirty stand-in commuter stock because there are not enough 22000 units to provide a full intercity service, The worst of the services is the Sligo line and the Rosslare line, Maybe there are no important people living in those areas who can manipulate Irish rail to provide a better service to their areas but who lives out towards M3 Parkway or Nenagh/Birdhill and Maynooth/Leixlip?

end of the road · 24-11-2013 8:33pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

There are 22000sets running empty between Docklands/Connolly to M3 Parkway when some two car 2800s would do perfectly, There are also several of these 22000s being used on the Maynooth Commuter service as well as on the little used western rail corridor.

true foggy the 2800s being 2 car would be perfect for the m3 parkway shuttle, i don't mind 22000s being used on the WRC if running a full galway limerick service as the commuter stock would be 2 uncomfortable for the journey it takes to do the full length of the line, commuter stock for limerick ennis is fine, are their any athenry galway only commuter services?

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yet there are several intercity services which are run using dirty stand-in commuter stock because there are not enough 22000 units to provide a full intercity service, The worst of the services is the Sligo line and the Rosslare line, Maybe there are no important people living in those areas who can manipulate Irish rail to provide a better service to their areas but who lives out towards M3 Parkway or Nenagh/Birdhill and Maynooth/Leixlip?

thats it i'm afraid, all though i don't mind people trying to improve services on the nenagh line even if it will be to no avail as i believe it has been deliberately ran down just like the rosslare limerick line which part of it has all ready been ran into oblivian with stations being destroyed back in the 80s to help with the process, and the rest will be ran into oblivian also, all to help to divert funds to the western fail rail, while the 22 k shambles on the nenagh line shouldn't have happened i still wish the lads down there the best as their hearts are in the right place, but i've no doubt the CIE machete will be on the way soon to rip up the lot to sell off the land to some local farmer for a vote in the next election

Hilly Bill · 25-11-2013 12:12am

lxflyer wrote: »

There were something like 4 sets taken out of use, on rotation, over the normal maintenance spares. That hardly makes the depot "full" of unused ICR sets.

The sets that were out on rotation are I understand being brought back into use once this reformation process is completed, but two more Mark 4 sets are going into storage. The ICR sets will replace them.

I think that people need to remember a few things here:

1) There is a maintenance budget within which IE are constrained - in other words they can only afford to operate a certain number of trains - there is not a bottomless pit of money available. That's the reality within which the company have to operate.

2) Standing on a commuter service within the Short Hop area is a fact of life. The figure of (allegedly) 100 standing was on a 4 car 29k, which was on the 18:05 to Longford, that already runs non-stop to Maynooth, which should be able to comfortably take that. There is a stopping service to Maynooth after that service.

There will be a new timetable in the new year sometime, and that will in all probability have revised stopping patterns where they are needed that reflect the revised set sizes.

Its not allegedly, its fact and it looked far from comfortable.

MDFM · 25-11-2013 6:37am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its not allegedly, its fact and it looked far from comfortable.

5.40am Longford-pearse is a 4 carriage 29 this morning....this should be 'interesting' or at least it will be by time it gets to Connolly

Emme · 25-11-2013 10:34am

Passengers who go onto the 6.05 Waterford-Heuston train were standing from Athy, Kildare and Newbridge. This was a 6 carriage train. People were packed into the aisles between seats as well as the space between carriages. Some of those standing were coughing and spluttering all over those who were seated. People were fainting and when the train got to Heuston a girl seemed to be waiting for medical attention.

If I were an evil scientist I would look no further than the trains mentioned in this thread if I wanted to introduce a pandemic into Ireland.

kc56 · 25-11-2013 5:25pm

Emme wrote: »

Passengers who go onto the 6.05 Waterford-Heuston train were standing from Athy, Kildare and Newbridge. This was a 6 carriage train. People were packed into the aisles between seats as well as the space between carriages. Some of those standing were coughing and spluttering all over those who were seated. People were fainting and when the train got to Heuston a girl seemed to be waiting for medical attention.

If I were an evil scientist I would look no further than the trains mentioned in this thread if I wanted to introduce a pandemic into Ireland.

I understand this was actually a 4-carraige train and not the usual 6-piece.

Jamie2k9 · 25-11-2013 5:26pm

kc56 wrote: »

I understand this was actually a 4-carraige train and not the usual 6-piece.

Indeed they cut yesterdays 18.40 down service and only 1 6 piece set was in Waterford for the 07.50.

L1011 · 25-11-2013 5:55pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

There are 22000sets running empty between Docklands/Connolly to M3 Parkway when some two car 2800s would do perfectly, There are also several of these 22000s being used on the Maynooth Commuter service as well as on the little used western rail corridor.

During peak, the Docklands services are filling a 4 car 29k to fairly uncomfortable standing levels (in one direction only). Putting on a 2 car offpeak would be absolutely fine but won't release a larger train at peak.

The tiny number of people transferring to the Docklands services suggests that either there's a disordinate number of IFSC workers that live in Dunboyne or people either don't like transferring or don't realise they can. A single service for the 9/5:30 peak to Maynooth or Longford might be something worth considering, as would a Kildare line service if it didn't have to reverse.

TheBandicoot · 25-11-2013 6:28pm

A better way to operate the M3 branch would be to use a 4car 2800, and split it off peak. After morning peak, leave one of the two car units shut down in the siding at M3 Parkway during the day, pick it up just before the evening peak, park it up after, then at the end of the night pick it up and head back to Connolly(the branch train already operates out of service from M3 to Connolly after midnight). Alternatively you could split at Docklands and send the spare 2car unit to Drogheda or Connolly for maintenance etc.

However this is not possible because Drogheda depot no longer has the ability to maintain the 2800s. The withdrawal of the 2700s created huge problems on the Connolly side- the 2800s were removed over to the Heuston-side branches, and 22s were used to fill the diagrams the 2800s used to deal with. This is and has been a disaster, it is a waste of 22s and they are unable to handle the peak commuter loading the 2800s could, and shouldn't be asked to.

It is just an exercise in saving money on maintenance, but it is leading to total misuse of the 22k stock, which is quite good stock but should not be used on any service that is meant to be serving rush hour commuters.

foggy_lad · 25-11-2013 6:48pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Indeed they cut yesterdays 18.40 down service and only 1 6 piece set was in Waterford for the 07.50.

Begs the question why would they do this? was there a breakdown or train failure or was it just stupidity?

bikeman1 · 25-11-2013 8:42pm

TheBandicoot wrote: »

A better way to operate the M3 branch would be to use a 4car 2800, and split it off peak. After morning peak, leave one of the two car units shut down in the siding at M3 Parkway during the day, pick it up just before the evening peak, park it up after, then at the end of the night pick it up and head back to Connolly(the branch train already operates out of service from M3 to Connolly after midnight). Alternatively you could split at Docklands and send the spare 2car unit to Drogheda or Connolly for maintenance etc.

However this is not possible because Drogheda depot no longer has the ability to maintain the 2800s. The withdrawal of the 2700s created huge problems on the Connolly side- the 2800s were removed over to the Heuston-side branches, and 22s were used to fill the diagrams the 2800s used to deal with. This is and has been a disaster, it is a waste of 22s and they are unable to handle the peak commuter loading the 2800s could, and shouldn't be asked to.

It is just an exercise in saving money on maintenance, but it is leading to total misuse of the 22k stock, which is quite good stock but should not be used on any service that is meant to be serving rush hour commuters.

Why can't Drogheda maintain 2800s anymore? No reason why not. They did for all the years up to last year. No reason why that has changed.

22s are not a waste. People pay Intercity fares Dundalk to Gormanston, so giving them the odd Intercity train is hardly a waste. 22s work well on the Northern line. And I am speaking from experience.

Reduced Capacity on Peak service

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