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Government agreement: Free-To-Air RTE in NI, BBC in RoI on DTT platform

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭mrdtv2010


    RTE have always been interested in providing UK tv services if they can make money on the provision of them.
    They made money on cablelink while it was in service and on the sale of it later.
    Someone would have provided the service eventually RTE just got in there.

    They were behind the original government/quango scuppered dtt proposals by easy tv back in 2001.
    They're probably behind the provision of it anyway by stealth once the existing onevision consortium pull out but only on a quid pro quo.
    RTE will on the quiet be able to tell large trans national advertisers that they have a potential 1.5 million extra viewers in NI and not worry about the BBC as it won't be taking any of RTE's add revenue.
    It's ingenious.

    They know a big majority in the republic already have it[so making it easier for them is not an issue given the benefits to RTE of getting on dtt in NI] and this is the best plan to increase their add revenue by claiming a potential NI audience

    There are two problems with this, three if you ask who's going to pay for it,

    a) UTV will object in the courts if there is no quid pro quo. They are not on the Sky Ireland EPG and people will switch to a UK Freesat postcode to get all the HD channels in Ireland, this is going to happen in Scotland as STV's HD service won't be on the air in time for the World Cup.

    b) The proposals for NI carriage are based on a low power DTT multiplex (10-20kW) whereas post DSO Divis PSB muxes are 100kW. RESULT: poorer coverage than NI stations and indoor reception of RTE in urban areas such as Belfast will be decidely ropey. Not exactly a convincing sell to advertisers.

    I see this being delayed: it took years to get Clermont Carn cleared to transmit at high power into Belfast. The issues revolve around rights, revenues, regulation, competition and who carries the costs.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Prior to RTE Relays, and Cablelink, Dublin was an aviation hazard with all the tall TV masts getting TV from Wales and Divis. The provision of a capital wide cable system got rid of the eyesores. People were getting the UK TV anyway, so RTE along with others provided a service which made money. Commercial enterprise I think would describe it. If only there was more of it around now.

    Most people who want to receive BBC already do, either by satellite or cable (which I think includes MMDS). Giving it FTA on DTT has little impact on any of these modes of distribution, and therefore the rights question is a little academic. RTE would be affected if it was included in the FTA mix, but probably not their advertising revenue. However if UTV was included, then TV3 and RTE would suffer. I doubt if any court challenge would succeed as there are few, if any, grounds for such a challenge. Competition?

    Whether TV3 objected I do not know, but they would be affected, but how can they complain? They did not take up all there frequecies so as to increase their reach to the public they supposedly serve.

    This is all a bottle of smoke. When push comes to shove, the PayTV concept will be dead and RTE will be hard pushed to fill the DTT channels without resorting to shopping channels and slappers. They have 4 muxes each can take 8or 9 channels, that means 36 channels. Rte1, RTE 2, RTE 3, TG4, RTE1+1, RTE 2+1 TG4+1, TV3, TV3+1, RTE NEWS NOW, RTE1+2, RTE 2 +2, etc. etc.

    And all in HD.

    :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭mrdtv2010


    Prior to RTE Relays, and Cablelink, Dublin was an aviation hazard with all the tall TV masts getting TV from Wales and Divis. The provision of a capital wide cable system got rid of the eyesores. People were getting the UK TV anyway, so RTE along with others provided a service which made money. Commercial enterprise I think would describe it. If only there was more of it around now.

    Most people who want to receive BBC already do, either by satellite or cable (which I think includes MMDS). Giving it FTA on DTT has little impact on any of these modes of distribution, and therefore the rights question is a little academic. RTE would be affected if it was included in the FTA mix, but probably not their advertising revenue. However if UTV was included, then TV3 and RTE would suffer. I doubt if any court challenge would succeed as there are few, if any, grounds for such a challenge. Competition?

    Whether TV3 objected I do not know, but they would be affected, but how can they complain? They did not take up all there frequecies so as to increase their reach to the public they supposedly serve.

    This is all a bottle of smoke. When push comes to shove, the PayTV concept will be dead and RTE will be hard pushed to fill the DTT channels without resorting to shopping channels and slappers. They have 4 muxes each can take 8or 9 channels, that means 36 channels. Rte1, RTE 2, RTE 3, TG4, RTE1+1, RTE 2+1 TG4+1, TV3, TV3+1, RTE NEWS NOW, RTE1+2, RTE 2 +2, etc. etc.

    And all in HD.

    :mad:

    I was talking about NI mostly. UTV are canny and will go to court when it suits them. Only one mux DTT is now commercially viable in ROI: as a wag said over on DS today we have yet to see RTE in SD and HD is well down range. The absence of an announced launch date and the usual interminable foot dragging says it all...


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    A thought has struck me. If Onevision pull out, could RTE launch the DTT wholly in HD? The spec for STB calls for HD as standard, so if they decided to go HD from the start, upscaling the channels where SD, then that would be interesting. That would mean that two muxes could fill up quite quickly. Also, if we got the Beeb, FTA, it would be HD.

    There's a thought.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Believe it or not RTE then get a crack at the Commercial DTT licence themselves :)


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Believe it or not RTE then get a crack at the Commercial DTT licence themselves :)

    Not quite, they are only a part of EasyTV.


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,126 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Would it be for sure that EasyTV will get offered the DTT licence, should OneVision pull the plug?

    Or is there a distinct chance that the whole shebang goes back up for tender?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭carrolls


    byte wrote: »
    Would it be for sure that EasyTV will get offered the DTT licence, should OneVision pull the plug?

    Or is there a distinct chance that the whole shebang goes back up for tender?
    Byte, I'm not really sure if that is an option at this stage. Selling a sub-Freesat pay-tv package to the remaining 150,000 households who have dodged pay-tv up to this point will be doomed to failure.
    Also, I think that if the plug is pulled on analogue in 2 years time, RTE are doomed as a national broadcaster if the only FREE DTT choice is the RTEs, TV3, TG4 and the NewsLoop. Why pay for an STB that only picks up 4 free channels when you can get a freesat STB that can pick up 100s of free channels including HD? Oh and of course the Irish channels are encrypted on satellite so won't be included in the freesat package.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    byte wrote: »
    Would it be for sure that EasyTV will get offered the DTT licence, should OneVision pull the plug?

    Or is there a distinct chance that the whole shebang goes back up for tender?

    Naturally we won't know until either OneVision or the BAI withdraw from the current negotiations.

    If the withdrawal does happen I expect Easy TV to be offered the chance to operate the commercial muxes as OneVision were following the withdrawal of Boxer. The monthly BAI board meeting next Monday could end the current negotiations.

    Can RTÉ fund both the roll out of the DTT network and the launch of a commercial DTT service?

    I'm sure UPC (Liberty Global) might look favourably at the option for the following reasons - the declining MMDS subscriber base (78,500), the potential loss of some MMDS spectrum in the upcoming licence review, the greater population coverage of the three (future four or more) commercial multiplexes offering up to 30 channels initially (40 or more after ASO), a subscriber management operation already in place. Competition issues may be a problem with UPC already the main player in the cable and MMDS market.

    There is no Plan B in the public domain.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The Cush wrote: »
    I'm sure UPC (Liberty Global) might look favourably at the option for the following reasons - the declining MMDS subscriber base (78,500), the potential loss of some MMDS spectrum in the upcoming licence review, the greater population coverage of the three (future four or more) commercial multiplexes offering up to 30 channels initially (40 or more after ASO), a subscriber management operation already in place. Competition issues may be a problem with UPC already the main player in the cable and MMDS market.

    That last figure I saw for MMDS 74,300 down from 76,800 in a quarter and that was 117,000 3 years ago.

    Since the day they bid for the DTT licence in conjunction with RTE they have lost at least 1/4 of their MMDS customers.

    I don't think they can lose any more spectrum until the end. They lost the block between 2600-2690 around 6 or 7 years back and had to ditch analogue MMDS.

    What is more likely over the next two years is that certain MMDS masts are no longer worth running and are simply abandoned or else that they interfere with the LTE service in the UK as plotted by Comreg and rare tweaked a bit thereby losing customers.

    Each mast serves an average of around 4,000 customers down from nearer 6,000 in 2006 .

    mmds.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 848 ✭✭✭marclt


    Is penetration into the UK really that widespread?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    That last figure I saw for MMDS 74,300 down from 76,800 in a quarter and that was 117,000 3 years ago.

    Since the day they bid for the DTT licence in conjunction with RTE they have lost at least 1/4 of their MMDS customers.

    I don't think they can lose any more spectrum until the end. They lost the block between 2600-2690 around 6 or 7 years back and had to ditch analogue MMDS.

    The 78,500 figure comes from Comreg (Q3 2009), when they applied for the licence back in Q2 2008 the MMDS subscriber base was 96,300. According to Comreg there are still approx 2,500 analogue MMDS subscribers.

    The MMDS licences expire in 2012 and 2014 and the review of the licences can begin after 18 April 2010 (per regulation) with a renewal of a further 5 years guaranteed to 2019 subject to conditions.

    The conditions will probably include a loss of some 2.6 GHz spectrum which was proposed by Comreg back in 2003 together with an EU Commission Decision in 2008 on the efficient use of this part of the spectrum. The loss of some spectrum in the band could be alleviated by changing to higher capacity DVB-T2/C2 (with MPEG-4) multiplexes.

    The awarding of the DTT commercial licences to EasyTV may make it easier for Comreg to reassign some of the MMDS spectrum to the Digital Dividend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush




  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    That is where I got that graphic.

    The award of 3G LTE expansion spectrum in the UK and in Ireland will be a key part of any MMDS band consultation because MMDS is blocking that band right now.

    The Cush wrote: »


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Furthermore, the MoU never made the direct claim that BBC free-to-air was at hand in this country, it was only the press release. One is an international agreement of sorts, the other is simply a press release. It's much more plausible to suspect possible shortcomings in preparing a press release rather than the MoU itself.

    How many hands did that press release pass through before it was released? Particularly, a press release which involved 3 different civil service units (and probably the PSBs as well) and which would have been under significantly greater than normal scrutiny. I don't believe that all of these "tricky" civil servants, who are in a purportedly cosy relationship with the commercial incumbents, would manage to let such a press release into the wild if they were not agreed on the contents. And you can be sure they paid just as much attention to the press release as they did the MoU - that is what counts to their political masters after all.
    They were behind the original government/quango scuppered dtt proposals by easy tv back in 2001.

    "It's TV" ??
    A thought has struck me. If Onevision pull out, could RTE launch the DTT wholly in HD?

    Technically yes.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Apogee wrote: »

    Originally Posted by Sam Russell viewpost.gif
    A thought has struck me. If Onevision pull out, could RTE launch the DTT wholly in HD?


    Technically yes.

    But would they? If RTE was wholly in HD, RTE 1HD and RTE 2HD, then that would steal a march on TV3. Also if BBC1 was FTA, the RTE1HD could show East Enders and the like in HD and get viewers over BBC. TV3 would be hard hit, as they have not even managed to get widescreen yet.

    RTE have been very quiet about DTT up to now. They have not even commented on the ministers edict about launch nor have they made a comment on the MoU re BBC FTA and their own move north.

    Are they hiding something? And if so, what?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    RTE have been very quiet about DTT up to now. They have not even commented on the ministers edict about launch nor have they made a comment on the MoU re BBC FTA and their own move north.

    Are they hiding something? And if so, what?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Exactly. They are not even saying nothing.

    :D:D:D:D:D:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The award of 3G LTE expansion spectrum in the UK and in Ireland will be a key part of any MMDS band consultation because MMDS is blocking that band right now.

    According to the Ofcom reports MMDS "showed little or no measured interference from MMDS transmitters into north west England" and "virtually no MMDS coverage in England and Wales with MMDS coverage in Northern Ireland limited away from the border areas".

    Also, "the information presented here suggests that the existence of MMDS services is unlikely to have a material impact of the value of 2.6GHz spectrum. There are likely to be some constraints in some parts of Northern Ireland which suggests that future use of the 2.6GHz band in Northern Ireland may need to be more closely coordinated with ComReg and UPC".

    And of course there is an MoU - Annex 4 of this document Auction of spectrum: 2500–2690MHz, Information Memorandum


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    They have not even commented on the ministers edict about launch nor have they made a comment on the MoU re BBC FTA and their own move north.

    Are they hiding something? And if so, what?

    There is no ministerial edict about DTT launch, I assume you are referring to the Statutory Instrument directing RTÉ to have an operational multiplex available to 90% of the population by the end of Oct. The DTT launch date is a matter for RTÉ and the BAI.
    There is no definitive launch date for a DTT service in Ireland as yet. This is a matter for RTÉ (www.rte.ie) and the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (www.bci.ie) to determine.

    http://www.rtenl.ie/dtt.htm


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭carrolls


    RTE1HD could show East Enders and the like in HD and get viewers over BBC?
    Thats a bad example, because Eastenders is not produced in HD.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    The Cush wrote: »
    There is no ministerial edict about DTT launch, I assume you are referring to the Statutory Instrument directing RTÉ to have an operational multiplex available to 90% of the population by the end of Oct. The DTT launch date is a matter for RTÉ and the BAI.
    I would have thought that a statutory instrument instructing to have a PSB multiplex available by the end of October would count as a launch of the "saorview" service?? It's hardly "available" if there's engineering tests ongoing on this network, so this would really mean the Statutory Instrument is instructing a launch of RTÉ's DTT proper and not engineering tests which happen to cover 90% of the country.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    carrolls wrote: »
    Thats a bad example, because Eastenders is not produced in HD.

    Well maybe, but you get the idea. If RTE was on HD on DTT and not on HD anywhere else, then that would give the incentive for Sean Citizen to get DTT. Most TVs from now on will be able to receive it, just needs an aerial. It would save them migrating later. ITV1 HD will just be the usual programmes upconverted where HD is not available, so RTE could do the same.

    It clearly states in the minimum requirements for STBs and iDTVs that they must be capable of HD reception.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I would have thought that a statutory instrument instructing to have a PSB multiplex available by the end of October would count as a launch of the "saorview" service?? It's hardly "available" if there's engineering tests ongoing on this network, so this would really mean the Statutory Instrument is instructing a launch of RTÉ's DTT proper and not engineering tests which happen to cover 90% of the country.

    So would I. Why is there no respons to the SI.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    I would have thought that a statutory instrument instructing to have a PSB multiplex available by the end of October would count as a launch of the "saorview" service?? It's hardly "available" if there's engineering tests ongoing on this network, so this would really mean the Statutory Instrument is instructing a launch of RTÉ's DTT proper and not engineering tests which happen to cover 90% of the country.

    The official launch can happen on or before that date if agreed by RTÉ and the BAI but by the 31st Oct the S.I. requires the multiplex to be operational and available to approx 90% of the population.

    With TV3 no longer available and replaced by an RTÉNL testcard can we assume the engineering test are at an end on the main transmitters?

    Also before the launch can happen TV3 have to decide on which multiplex it will be carried and sign the relevant contracts.

    Matters should be clearer after next Monday's BAI monthly board meeting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    The Cush wrote: »
    The official launch can happen on or before that date if agreed by RTÉ and the BAI but by the 31st Oct the S.I. requires the multiplex to be operational and available to approx 90% of the population.

    With TV3 no longer available and replaced by an RTÉNL testcard can we assume the engineering test are at an end on the main transmitters?

    Also before the launch can happen TV3 have to decide on which multiplex it will be carried and sign the relevant contracts.

    Matters should be clearer after next Monday's BAI monthly board meeting.
    Yes that's fine, I felt you were implicitly saying that the launch of DTT may not take place until after October regardless of the statutory instrument, back there. Would there be any incentive for TV3 to be carried on a different mux to RTÉ, except for a significant difference in cost? As each multiplex appears to cost the same to provision, I can't see there being a massive difference in charges as far as RTÉNL is concerned.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Would there be any incentive for TV3 to be carried on a different mux to RTÉ, except for a significant difference in cost? As each multiplex appears to cost the same to provision, I can't see there being a massive difference in charges as far as RTÉNL is concerned.

    If OneVision accept the licence TV3 may be carried on the commercial muxes as they are part of that consortium. The downside there for the viewer is that the commercial muxes may not be available from all the smaller relays due to cost.

    RTÉNL's proposed DTT tariff indicates all multiplexes would be available from c.44 sites with 93% population coverage with the public service mux(es) available from c. 188 sites. The proposed tariff for the commercial muxes is between €1m and €2.4m below the PSB mux tariff depending on the number of sites rolled out.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Given there high commitment to the public, demonstrated their lack of taking up the frequencies allocated on the relays, I think that TV3 will of course take the lowest cost option. They already demonstate this by their low production values in their own productions and their slowness in bringing in the wide band standard employed by the other stations.

    I would be delighted if TV3 were encrypted on the new mux so we will not be able to receive it.:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,576 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    i presume TV3 will be FTA no matter what mux it appears on but also they have stated their want for 3e to be PSB also hence methinks they will have both on a different mux and free. Upside is RTE have lots more space to play with......


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    TheDriver wrote: »
    i presume TV3 will be FTA no matter what mux it appears on .....

    Yes, TV3 must be FTA - section 70 of the Broadcasting Act 2009, 3e can be "free-to-air or not" - section 34 Broadcasting Act 2001.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I hope TV3 is encrypted, along with 3E, preferably only available on $ky, and then only on $ky Italy.

    I feel over Xposed, and was hoping that TV3 would be unavailable for those females in my household who consider Xposure to be good for the soul, so I do not have to endure the low level TV show.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    This debate from the Seanad recently indicates that meetings are underway between the two governments in relation to matters covered under the memorandum of understanding.
    Television Reception.

    Senator Cecilia Keaveney: I thank the Cathaoirleach for allowing me to raise this important issue for my constituency and the Border area. I welcome the Minister of State.

    Irish language broadcasting in Northern Ireland received a boost when the Irish and UK Governments agreed a memorandum of understanding which provides a framework for continuing co-operation on broadcasting issues on the island of Ireland. The memorandum is aimed at ensuring a smooth transition during the digital switchover and the switch-off of analogue services on the island of Ireland. It was signed by the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, Ben Bradshaw. The memorandum commits the two Governments to facilitating the widespread availability of RTE services in Northern Ireland and BBC services in Ireland on a free-to-air basis. It will also ensure the continuing widespread availability of the Irish language channel, TG4, in Northern Ireland following the digital switchover.

    At the time the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources said the agreement was the culmination of a successful period of co-operation on broadcasting issues between the Governments of Ireland and the UK and its benefits would be important. A smooth transition to digital television throughout the island of Ireland is important, especially for TG4, and the agreement will facilitate the availability of RTE on an all-island basis. The agreement will also help the delivery of broader economic and social benefits which will be gained by all citizens from the release of digital dividend spectrum following the closure of the analogue service. The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, Ben Bradshaw, said he was pleased to sign the memorandum of understanding as it was an important step in ensuring everything went smoothly and that BBC services would continue to be available on the island of Ireland.

    I raise this issue because many of my constituents who pay the licence fee do not receive RTE’s channels. RTE has done a great deal of work at its sites in Holywell and Limavady in Northern Ireland. Will the work being done on both sides of the Border maximise reception quality for those who receive either no signal or a very poor one? Will it overcome existing problems in order that those who do not receive a signal will receive one and that when the switchover takes place those who have found a solution through free-to-air services from, for example, the Limavady transmitter will not find that the good service they currently receive will disappear? In the context of the memorandum of understanding, it is intended to provide a good service for people in the North and that from the North BBC services will be provided for people in the Republic. However, it should be borne in mind that many do not currently receive RTE services.

    In May 2008 the Inishowen Independent ran a story on how television services on Inishowen were going digital but that reception quality would not improve for householders. It was indicated that, although RTE was upgrading the transmitter at Holywell Hill, Altaghderry, Killea and that the digital service was due to come on stream by 2012, this would not address the problem of bad reception that had plagued areas across Inishowen. Scores of households in the Burt area have been forced to subscribe to satellite providers such as Sky in order to receive clear RTE television pictures. The fact that they have to pay the licence fee of €160 to RTE and €240 to Sky means there is an additional cost to them.

    RTE sought planning permission from Donegal County Council to build a prefabricated cabin at Holywell Hill to house the new digital broadcasting equipment. Experts in RTE say that, while the signal will be digital, it will be broadcast terrestrially. They also say it will not provide much comfort for those households that currently cannot receive clear analogue pictures. The spokesperson for RTE said that when the signal went digital, it would be no better or no worse than the signal currently received in households. RTE states it has met its legal obligations by providing coverage for 99% of the population and that local conditions mean 100% coverage cannot be achieved.

    Many have been trying to find a solution to the problem. Some who work in the industry say they have been able to install freeview systems using satellite dishes in recent months. The crux of the matter is how we determine whether the digital television transmitters in the North will carry RTE and TG4 on freeview services. We assume they will because if these services are to be provided for people in Belfast and Inishowen receives a signal from the North, it should cover the area. This is a technical subject, but people in my area do not care how the problem is solved. They experience enormous problems because they cannot receive a crystal-clear signal. The television pictures they receive are snowy. We had enough snow during the winter without having to worry about it now. In the Muff area there is a perfect signal received from Limavady, but there is a shadow effect in the signal received in Quigley’s Point and Redcastle. The signal received in the Clonmany and Urris areas also requires to be dealt with.

    A memorandum of understanding has been agreed and much work is ongoing. We need to find a solution to the problem on a cross-Border basis. Will the Minister of State indicate whether it is accepted that there is a problem with television coverage in the Inishowen area?

    Minister of State at the Departments of Health and Children, Social Protection and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy Áine Brady): On behalf of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Ryan, I thank the Senator for raising in the Seanad the issue of the availability of Irish television services in Northern Ireland in the context of the switchover to digital terrestrial television services.

    The development of digital broadcasting is an imperative at an international, European and national level. Throughout the world countries have agreed that traditional analogue broadcast services will no longer be protected from interference after 2015. Within Europe there is widespread agreement that all analogue broadcast services will cease by 2012. This provides an opportunity for Ireland to upgrade its terrestrial free-to-view television services from analogue to digital and, while so doing, seek ways in which to provide greater access to the Irish public broadcast services throughout the island of Ireland.

    It is important for Ireland to upgrade to digital terrestrial television services for a number of reasons. Analogue networks are becoming increasingly obsolete and expensive to operate. Digital technology is essential in order that our broadcasters can continue to compete with commercial broadcasters. Digital terrestrial television, DTT, is more spectrum efficient and versatile than the analogue television service. DTT can provide more services for television viewers. These include more television channels, more radio channels, electronic programme guides and even HDTV services. Because DTT is more spectrum efficient — it can provide eight television channels in the same amount of spectrum as one analogue television channel — spectrum in the television frequency band can be reallocated to other services such as broadband or mobile broadband services. This provides a digital dividend which has the potential to provide a significant economic benefit for the country.

    The Broadcasting Act 2009 provides for RTE and TG4 to provide their broadcast services, in as far as possible, throughout the island of Ireland. In addition, the Act provides for RTE to build and operate a free-to-view digital television service as a replacement for the current analogue service. This service must at least provide space for RTE One, RTE Two, TG4 and TV3. The RTE free-to-view digital television service is due to launch to 90% of the population by 31 October.

    In developing plans for digital terrestrial television services in Ireland the Minister was cognisant that the United Kingdom was also upgrading its television services to digital and, in particular, that the Northern Ireland switchover is planned for the last quarter of 2012. In this regard and in order to provide for a co-ordinated approach to the analogue network switch-off on both sides of the Border, the Minister’s officials entered into discussions with their United Kingdom counterparts. As a result of these discussions, a memorandum of understanding was signed jointly by the United Kingdom and Irish Governmendts on 1 February, the purpose of which is to provide a mechanism for co-operation between the Governments of Ireland and the United Kingdom in providing a framework for the transition to digital terrestrial television services and the analogue network switch-off; to provide for TG4 to be carried in Northern Ireland on the digital television network and to provide an opportunity for RTE to be transmitted within Northern Ireland and for the BBC to be transmitted in Ireland. The provision of BBC services throughout Ireland is a commercial decision for the BBC, as, unlike RTE, it does not have a mandate to provide its services throughout the island of Ireland. In regard to TG4, the memorandum of understanding draws on the Belfast — Good Friday — Agreement 1998 and the 2006 St. Andrews Agreement which provided for the availability of TG4 throughout Northern Ireland on the analogue network. The memorandum of understanding provides for TG4 to be carried on the digital network in Northern Ireland. In regard to RTE, the memorandum of understanding commits the two Governments to seeking to find a technical and cost-effective solution to the provision of RTE services throughout Northern Ireland.

    Since it was signed, officials from the two Governments have continued to meet and work together to provide for full implementation of the memorandum of understanding. The most recent meeting took place in March and a further meeting is planned for May. The meetings are examining practical ways in which the memorandum of understanding can be used to provide for a smooth transition from analogue to digital television services across the island of Ireland and how best to provide for RTE and TG4 services to be made available throughout Ireland.

    Senator Cecilia Keaveney: I asked one specific question. Given that the officials responsible for the memorandum of understanding will meet in May, can the Adjournment Matter I have raised be brought to their attention regarding the difficulties experienced in the Inishowen area? The officials might need to talk to RTE spokespersons to obtain further details on the technical difficulties experienced. Solutions can be found. I ask that the response of the officials be brought to my attention.

    Deputy Áine Brady: I will ask if that can be done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    The provision of BBC services throughout Ireland is a commercial decision for the BBC, as, unlike RTE, it does not have a mandate to provide its services throughout the island of Ireland.

    Anyone hazard a guess what particular mandate RTÉ has "to provide its services thoughout the island of Ireland"?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    "RTE has done a great deal of work at its sites in Holywell and Limavady in Northern Ireland. Will the work being done on both sides of the Border maximise reception quality for those who receive either no signal or a very poor one?"
    Didn't know RTE had a site in Limavady! Anyone any more info on this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    Apogee wrote: »
    Anyone hazard a guess what particular mandate RTÉ has "to provide its services thoughout the island of Ireland"?
    Not sure what mandate is in place if any, but I've always thought that RTÉ (and Radio Éireann before it) always sought to provide 32 county coverage of its services as much as it was practical to do so in line with national aspirational aims (in particular with the old Articles 2 & 3 of the Republic's constitution) of it being a PSB, hence Clermont Carn and Holywell Hill being sites lying next door to the border, Truskmore not very far from it and a number of others both main sites and relays (Carin Hill, Moville etc.) intend to have part of their coverage reach into Northern Ireland as well.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    lawhec wrote: »
    Not sure what mandate is in place if any, but I've always thought that RTÉ (and Radio Éireann before it) always sought to provide 32 county coverage of its services as much as it was practical to do so in line with national aspirational aims (in particular with the old Articles 2 & 3 of the Republic's constitution) of it being a PSB, hence Clermont Carn and Holywell Hill being sites lying next door to the border, Truskmore not very far from it and a number of others both main sites and relays (Carin Hill, Moville etc.) intend to have part of their coverage reach into Northern Ireland as well.

    You also have to remember that the DG is from Derry and the Head of Programming is also from the North.

    And not unlike UTV being available in ROI advertising possiblities are available in NI, Setanta would also view this as a reason. As do C4 and Sky.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    "RTE has done a great deal of work at its sites in Holywell and Limavady in Northern Ireland. Will the work being done on both sides of the Border maximise reception quality for those who receive either no signal or a very poor one?"
    Didn't know RTE had a site in Limavady! Anyone any more info on this?

    I think she means her constituents are watching UK services from Limavady. Look at the misunderstanding over freeview and freesat or why RTE licence payers pay to watch RTE on Sky. All in all, no wonder the roll out of DTT has taken so long and is in such a mess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭culabula


    Elmo wrote: »
    You also have to remember that the DG is from Derry and the Head of Programming is also from the North.

    And not unlike UTV being available in ROI advertising possiblities are available in NI, Setanta would also view this as a reason. As do C4 and Sky.

    DG is from Ardoyne!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    lawhec wrote: »
    Not sure what mandate is in place if any, but I've always thought that RTÉ (and Radio Éireann before it) always sought to provide 32 county coverage of its services as much as it was practical to do so in line with national aspirational aims (in particular with the old Articles 2 & 3 of the Republic's constitution) of it being a PSB, hence Clermont Carn and Holywell Hill being sites lying next door to the border, Truskmore not very far from it and a number of others both main sites and relays (Carin Hill, Moville etc.) intend to have part of their coverage reach into Northern Ireland as well.

    Perhaps Montrose are imbued with the spirit of de Valera. Or maybe Áine Brady is bullsh*tting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Two questions asked in the Dáil earlier this week regarding speculation about transmitters in the border area. Did anyone come across this in the press?
    Broadcasting Legislation.

    346. Deputy Alan Shatter asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources his plans regarding Irish broadcasting masts in the vicinity of the Border following the signing of a memorandum of understanding between the Irish and UK governments, which provides a framework for continuing co-operation on broadcasting issues on the island of Ireland; if it is envisaged that control and or ownership of such masts will be transferred to a cross-Border holding body or other co-operative or joint arrangement or if they will remain in the ownership of this State; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17823/10]

    349. Deputy Olivia Mitchell asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the official position in respect of reports that Irish broadcasting masts located near the Border may be transferred to a cross-Border holding body; his views on whether these transmitters are strategic State assets providing additional revenue for public service broadcasting and are part of a network which is an essential national asset in the event of any national emergency; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18119/10]

    Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): I propose to take Question Nos. 346 and 349 together.

    There are no plans to transfer broadcasting masts located near the border to a cross border holding body. The information referred to by the Deputy is based on inaccurate press reporting. There are no provisions in the Memorandum of Understanding that would allow for such a development.

    A copy of the Memorandum of Understanding is available on www.dcenr.gov.ie.

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20100505.XML&Node=2843#N2843

    Also came across this article from early Feb regarding switchover in NI - http://www.agendani.com/going-digital


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    With the Dáil back from their holidays the MoU made its reappearence last week in Dáil questions.
    Broadcasting Legislation

    1574. Deputy Leo Varadkar asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the discussions that have taken place with British authorities on developing an all Ireland digital free to air carrying all the British and Irish freeview and saorview channels; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33150/10]

    Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): There are no plans for a single all Ireland digital free to air network carrying all the UK Freeview and Irish TV channels.

    The Memorandum of Understanding that I signed with my UK counterpart, Secretary of State Ben Bradshaw, MP, on 1 February 2010, deals with broadcast services and related radio spectrum issues in the context of the provision of digital terrestrial services on the island of Ireland.

    The Memorandum aims to facilitate the widespread availability of RTÉ and TG4 in Northern Ireland and also provides an opportunity for the BBC to make itself available in the south. It is my intention that RTÉ services will be available on a ‘free-to-air’ basis throughout the island of Ireland. The manner in which any BBC services would be provided is primarily a matter for the BBC.

    My Department continues to engage with ComReg, the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, the Department of Foreign Affairs, RTÉ and the Authorities in the UK to provide for the availability of RTÉ and TG4 throughout Northern Ireland.

    A copy of the Memorandum of Understanding is available on www.dcenr.ie.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Freesat for Us and Saorsat for Them, then.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It would be great to get the UK freeview service in the south, guess it will always just be a dream then, looks like ill just have to keep my Freesat and Sky subs.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It would be great to get those channels on Freeview but not on Freesat, like Dave.

    I do not understand why they are not on it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    It would be great to get those channels on Freeview but not on Freesat, like Dave.

    I do not understand why they are not on it.

    Yep, can't quite understand that myself Sam. The channel 5 varients are another example.

    Still, Freesat is miles better than Freeview Lite. Can't understand though, why they can't put RTE's 1 and 2 along with TG4 free to Air for viewers in the North but not the rest of the UK. I'm sure this is technically possible. Didn't they do it with the Saint (a radio station in Southampton) a few years ago ?

    Personally, I think Freesat should also be available to viewers in the ROI, although i suppose RTE would object strongly.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Personally, I think Freesat should also be available to viewers in the ROI, although i suppose RTE would object strongly.

    It is available, all you need is a dish and receiver.:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Personally, I think Freesat should also be available to viewers in the ROI, although i suppose RTE would object strongly.

    The only broadcasting company that will complain about either FreeSat or SaorSat in ROI will be TV3 due to the number of ITV channels available on such a system. RTÉ actually understand that they are in constant competition with the UK channels and have been for 50 years, TV3 only understand that the suppression of ITV in ROI can only help them. I might be proven wrong but I can't see TV3 being part of SaorSat if it starts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 393 ✭✭Tom Slick


    Elmo wrote: »
    The only broadcasting company that will complain about ... FreeSat ... in ROI will be TV3 due to the number of ITV channels available on such a system....TV3 only understand that the suppression of ITV in ROI can only help them.

    Bit late for that now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Tom Slick wrote: »
    Bit late for that now.

    Oh but TV3 are only a small liklle company and they are only as newbie in broadcasting, Think of the Children. One of the reason TV3 didn't go ahead in 1989 was because the want to replace UTV on MMDS systems.

    Anyway we will see what ITV do in relation to Pay TV over the next year or so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Anyway, no ITV or UTV on Saorsat, It's only Saorview channels. TV3 can sleep nights :)


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