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Comments

  • #552
    D1stant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    Great thread!

    I am building an extension to my very old semiD. It currently has storage heating and a G BER rating. Im burning coial like a steam train and the house is of course still freezing

    The rough plan (I am a novice) is to insulate the house up to an BER A or beyond spec, have solar panels for hot water (and possibly rads?) plus gas and wood/combi boilers on the same zoned system. I was looking at a Boru Carraig Mor 30kW combi boiler today

    The space the boiler is in is 15sqm, but can open (sliding panels) onto the kitchen which is 30sqm - so I would like a fair bit of heat coming from the boiler when needed and be able to control what percentage of the energy goes towards heating water versus room if possible.

    The boiler flue will go up 2 storeys as there is a void above where I want to put it (onto existing gable wall) so heat would rise upwards and heat the hall & bedrooms upstairs also

    We will have 10 double rads in the house if I go conventional OR 8 doubles + underfloor heating in the extension downstairs

    So questions and thanks in advance for your replies

    1. Is underfloor really worth it for the 45sqm part - I would still have to install the 8 rads and it might be more expensive to mix the techniques or have other knock ons

    2. Can I vary where the Boru sends the energy (to room or boiler)

    3. Is the Boru sufficient for what I am trying to do

    4. Do I need to ventialte the boiler in any special way as I am going towards airtighness in the house

    5. Is there a maximum distance I should be between the boiler and the water tank

    6. Any concerns with running the flue straight up 2 storeys?

    7. I am a little worried that Boru are not field proven yet. I'd like to buy Irish but if people have suggestions on other brands Id appreciate

    Thanks


  • #553
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    D1stant wrote: »
    Great thread!

    I am building an extension to my very old semiD. It currently has storage heating and a G BER rating. Im burning coial like a steam train and the house is of course still freezing

    The rough plan (I am a novice) is to insulate the house up to an BER A or beyond spec, have solar panels for hot water (and possibly rads?) plus gas and wood/combi boilers on the same zoned system. I was looking at a Boru Carraig Mor 30kW combi boiler today

    The space the boiler is in is 15sqm, but can open (sliding panels) onto the kitchen which is 30sqm - so I would like a fair bit of heat coming from the boiler when needed and be able to control what percentage of the energy goes towards heating water versus room if possible.

    The boiler flue will go up 2 storeys as there is a void above where I want to put it (onto existing gable wall) so heat would rise upwards and heat the hall & bedrooms upstairs also

    We will have 10 double rads in the house if I go conventional OR 8 doubles + underfloor heating in the extension downstairs

    So questions and thanks in advance for your replies

    1. Is underfloor really worth it for the 45sqm part - I would still have to install the 8 rads and it might be more expensive to mix the techniques or have other knock ons

    2. Can I vary where the Boru sends the energy (to room or boiler)

    3. Is the Boru sufficient for what I am trying to do

    4. Do I need to ventialte the boiler in any special way as I am going towards airtighness in the house

    5. Is there a maximum distance I should be between the boiler and the water tank

    6. Any concerns with running the flue straight up 2 storeys?

    7. I am a little worried that Boru are not field proven yet. I'd like to buy Irish but if people have suggestions on other brands Id appreciate

    Thanks

    Hi:) If it was my house I would install a boiler stove heating only rads throughout. The rads simplify the system. I would buy a triple coil cylinder or use a systemlink to link in the three heat sources. Ie boiler stove, gas boiler and solar panels. I would buy a traditional open vented regular condensing gas boiler and not combi or sytem.

    This would be the cheapest way of installing the system. You could also link all three with a thermal store but they are more expensive. The system link or triple coil cylinder would be the cheaper way. I favour the systemlink as it has zoning options built in. The thermal store is very expensive but good as there is very little heat loss from it.
    http://www.systemlink.ie/

    The boiler stove would fit in the existing fireplace and gas boiler anywhere on or near an external wall. It's best for the boiler stove and hot water cylinder to be above the stove upstairs.

    2&3) No, you need to have your rooms heat losses calculated with the new proposed insulation levels first as this will determine what size boiler stove is needed to:
    A) Heat the Kitchen and living room. (Directly from stove)
    B) The back boiler size to heat all the rads.
    I would install rads in the kitchen and living room anyway for when the stove isn't lit. Definately install these rads with thermostatic rad valves.
    The gas boiler sized to heat the whole system.

    4) Yes definately. Your stove installer will advice. You can get freestanding boiler stoves with an external air kit. This would be best if your house is very airtight. There are very few inset boiler stoves with external air kit.

    5) I would have the cylinder upstairs above the boiler stove. I would say 5m max. The less pipework linking to the systemlink or cylinder from the boilers the more efficient the system is.

    6)Which flue would this be? Is it for the stove? Is there a chimney in the house already? If there is, the boiler stove could use this chimney once lined. The gas boiler would be balanced flue with a small round outlet terminal on the wall.

    7) There are many brands, but until we know the total required output I can't advice on which stove would be best.

    I would get a heating expert in to calculate the required loads with the new levels of insulation on the boilers and then get quotes in based on these facts:).

    Woodwarm, Morso, Charnwood, Clearview are all excellent.

    Other makes are: Arrow, Hunter, Stovax, Dunsley. As well as Irish brands.

    Stove Fan.


  • #554
    D1stant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    Stove Fan wrote: »


    Thanks for the advice Stove Fan


    Hi:) If it was my house I would install a boiler stove heating only rads throughout. The rads simplify the system.

    Yep - I was coming to the same conclusion

    I would buy a triple coil cylinder or use a systemlink to link in the three heat sources. Ie boiler stove, gas boiler and solar panels. I would buy a traditional open vented regular condensing gas boiler and not combi or sytem. This would be the cheapest way of installing the system. You could also link all three with a thermal store but they are more expensive. The system link or triple coil cylinder would be the cheaper way. I favour the systemlink as it has zoning options built in. The thermal store is very expensive but good as there is very little heat loss from it.
    http://www.systemlink.ie/


    So I cant turn off zones with a triple coil cylinder but I can with a system link? Any idea on the rough systemlink total cost (unit, installation, plumbing)

    The boiler stove would fit in the existing fireplace and gas boiler anywhere on or near an external wall. It's best for the boiler stove and hot water cylinder to be above the stove upstairs.

    The Gas and stove boilers will be dowstairs and hot water tank upstairs about 4m and 9m away resp.

    2&3) No, you need to have your rooms heat losses calculated with the new proposed insulation levels first as this will determine what size boiler stove is needed to:
    A) Heat the Kitchen and living room. (Directly from stove)
    B) The back boiler size to heat all the rads.
    I would install rads in the kitchen and living room anyway for when the stove isn't lit. Definately install these rads with thermostatic rad valves.
    The gas boiler sized to heat the whole system.

    Makes sense - so no stove boiler allows you to mix where heat is directed between room and water?

    4) Yes definately. Your stove installer will advice. You can get freestanding boiler stoves with an external air kit. This would be best if your house is very airtight. There are very few inset boiler stoves with external air kit.

    5) I would have the cylinder upstairs above the boiler stove. I would say 5m max. The less pipework linking to the systemlink or cylinder from the boilers the more efficient the system is.

    Im looking at about 9m. Is this a big thing in terms of efficeincy if the pipes are well insulated?

    6)Which flue would this be? Is it for the stove? Is there a chimney in the house already? If there is, the boiler stove could use this chimney once lined. The gas boiler would be balanced flue with a small round outlet terminal on the wall.

    The stove boiler flue will go up 2 storey through a void. I am not considering putting the stove in an existing chimney at the moment

    7) There are many brands, but until we know the total required output I can't advice on which stove would be best.

    I would get a heating expert in to calculate the required loads with the new levels of insulation on the boilers and then get quotes in based on these facts:).

    So insulate and put in Gas boiler first then decide on stove boiler make and spec?

    Woodwarm, Morso, Charnwood, Clearview are all excellent.

    Other makes are: Arrow, Hunter, Stovax, Dunsley. As well as Irish brands.

    Stove Fan.

    Thanks again


  • #555
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Originally Posted by Stove Fan viewpost.gif


    Thanks for the advice Stove Fan
    Your welcome:)

    Hismile.gif If it was my house I would install a boiler stove heating only rads throughout. The rads simplify the system.

    Yep - I was coming to the same conclusion

    I would buy a triple coil cylinder or use a systemlink to link in the three heat sources. Ie boiler stove, gas boiler and solar panels. I would buy a traditional open vented regular condensing gas boiler and not combi or sytem. This would be the cheapest way of installing the system. You could also link all three with a thermal store but they are more expensive. The system link or triple coil cylinder would be the cheaper way. I favour the systemlink as it has zoning options built in. The thermal store is very expensive but good as there is very little heat loss from it.
    http://www.systemlink.ie/


    So I cant turn off zones with a triple coil cylinder but I can with a system link? Any idea on the rough systemlink total cost (unit, installation, plumbing)
    You can if you fit seperate zone valves to the various radiator circuits. It's normal to have 3 zones. Upstairs/Downstairs and Domestic Hot water. You can have more zones if wanted. The system link would look neater and save time. No idea as to cost:(
    The boiler stove would fit in the existing fireplace and gas boiler anywhere on or near an external wall. It's best for the boiler stove and hot water cylinder to be above the stove upstairs.

    The Gas and stove boilers will be dowstairs and hot water tank upstairs about 4m and 9m away resp. Ideally you want the hot water cylinder nearest to the boiler stove. Your plumber will check your location to see if it's suitable. 9m is too far really to allow gravity circulation.

    2&3) No, you need to have your rooms heat losses calculated with the new proposed insulation levels first as this will determine what size boiler stove is needed to:
    A) Heat the Kitchen and living room. (Directly from stove)
    B) The back boiler size to heat all the rads.
    I would install rads in the kitchen and living room anyway for when the stove isn't lit. Definately install these rads with thermostatic rad valves.
    The gas boiler sized to heat the whole system.

    Makes sense - so no stove boiler allows you to mix where heat is directed between room and water? No, you can only buy a boilerstove with different room outputs and boiler outputs Generally 30% to room and 70% to boiler. This is why choosing a boiler stove has to be sized correctly for your home. If the room output is too high, hence too hot in the room with stove you would close the fire up and so your rads wouldnt be heating to the required temp.

    4) Yes definately. Your stove installer will advice. You can get freestanding boiler stoves with an external air kit. This would be best if your house is very airtight. There are very few inset boiler stoves with external air kit.

    5) I would have the cylinder upstairs above the boiler stove. I would say 5m max. The less pipework linking to the systemlink or cylinder from the boilers the more efficient the system is.

    Im looking at about 9m. Is this a big thing in terms of efficeincy if the pipes are well insulated?
    See previous.

    6)Which flue would this be? Is it for the stove? Is there a chimney in the house already? If there is, the boiler stove could use this chimney once lined. The gas boiler would be balanced flue with a small round outlet terminal on the wall.

    The stove boiler flue will go up 2 storey through a void. I am not considering putting the stove in an existing chimney at the moment
    Yes this is possible to create a new chimney by using a twin wall insulated chimney but far more expensive than using an existing chimney. It must be installed to the flue pipe manufacturers instructions.


    7) There are many brands, but until we know the total required output I can't advice on which stove would be best.

    I would get a heating expert in to calculate the required loads with the new levels of insulation on the boilers and then get quotes in based on these factssmile.gif.

    So insulate and put in Gas boiler first then decide on stove boiler make and spec? Yes, you could do that first, or do both together, it's really up to you and of course budget. If the budget is tight install gas first. I presume piped natural gas? If this is the case the gas will be cheaper to run than a boiler stove if paying top prices for fuel. If this is the case consider a non boiler stove:). Save on expensive plumbing but still gives heat to main rooms. You could still have domestic hot water only from it. If using tank LPG gas the boiler stove would be cheaper to run.

    Stove Fan:)


    Woodwarm, Morso, Charnwood, Clearview are all excellent.

    Other makes are: Arrow, Hunter, Stovax, Dunsley. As well as Irish brands.

    Stove Fan.


  • #556
    legrand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 681 ✭✭✭legrand


    Hello Stove Fan

    Have been following this thread with keen interest as currently shopping for multi-fuel stove (~6Kw). Like many others hoping you can offer some advise here :)

    We did the house up some years back and relocated the kitchen. We moved the aga to this new kitchen area. Where the aga was we now have an opening in readiness for a stove (or indeed regular fire place).

    In a thread above you mentioned a flue may need to lined - in the context of former use of this flue (where aga used to heat water and some rads) does a flue need to be lined for regular stove use or would a 'regular' flue be okay?

    I see also that you recommend some manufacturers above -any thoughts in the Dovre range (I was looking at the Dovre 250 or 425).

    incidentally, if a stove is (say) rated at 8Kw - is that an average figure or something that is only achieved after a couple of hours at max burn?

    Final question (is there such a thing? ;) ) Current opening is lined with plasterboard which in itself has default fire rating. At this time I'm probably looking at a clearance of ~150mm either side of a stove. Would I need to add fire-board or would current plaster board be sufficient?

    Many thanks for any advise given.


  • #557
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    :)
    legrand wrote: »
    Hello Stove Fan

    Have been following this thread with keen interest as currently shopping for multi-fuel stove (~6Kw). Like many others hoping you can offer some advise here :)

    We did the house up some years back and relocated the kitchen. We moved the aga to this new kitchen area. Where the aga was we now have an opening in readiness for a stove (or indeed regular fire place).

    In a thread above you mentioned a flue may need to lined - in the context of former use of this flue (where aga used to heat water and some rads) does a flue need to be lined for regular stove use or would a 'regular' flue be okay?

    I see also that you recommend some manufacturers above -any thoughts in the Dovre range (I was looking at the Dovre 250 or 425).

    incidentally, if a stove is (say) rated at 8Kw - is that an average figure or something that is only achieved after a couple of hours at max burn?

    Final question (is there such a thing? ;) ) Current opening is lined with plasterboard which in itself has default fire rating. At this time I'm probably looking at a clearance of ~150mm either side of a stove. Would I need to add fire-board or would current plaster board be sufficient?

    Many thanks for any advise given.

    Hi:) With regards to the flue it depends whether its clay lined or not. If the aga was gas/oil fired it may have a stainless steel liner already but its unlikely that this would be a solid fuel grade liner. You get liners suitable for gas/oil and Gas/ oil and solid fuel. A picture up the chimney would be great:)

    I have no experience of the dove range but you could look at reviews here by owners. http://www.whatstove.co.uk/reviews/stoves/stove-reviews/_c34.html
    The ratings are not accurate.http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove-heat-outputs.html
    I would of thought the outputs quoted would be the maximum:confused:

    If it's a decent manufacturer you could check the HETAS website. This gives efficiency figures and the refuel periods and heat outputs. Click each stove your interested in:)
    http://www.hetas.co.uk//appliance/search?manu=--select--&app_type=--select--&model=&fuel_type=--select--&eff=&submit=Search
    Not every stove is listed as it hasn't been tested by hetas.

    The plasterboard would have to be removed as it's not completely fireproof. You would need something like monolux or supalux or vermiculite board to line the opening out. You could just use sand and cement direct to the wall and plaster it although the heat may crack the plaster. This would be much cheaper.

    Stove Fan:)


  • #558
    doniepony
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭doniepony


    Stovefan

    I have been advised that with stoves that a straight flue is better but unfortunately this will not be possible with my new build as I would end up with very tall chimney stacks-this will look awful (and would not be condusive to my planning). I will therefore have to have have a turn in my flue-is this a problem do you think? Is there anything I should be telling the builder to do to make things work effectively in the long run.

    Also, the builder was asking me today about the size of the clay pots to use in the flue-I understand that an 8" is standard and I can use connectors to tie it onto the stove. At present I am looking at the charnwood Island 1 (think 8" is right here as there is a 6/8" connector). I will not be putting a stove in one room for considerable while (due to budget) so would 8" pots be the safest option here.

    Thanks again


  • #559
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    :)
    doniepony wrote: »
    Stovefan

    I have been advised that with stoves that a straight flue is better but unfortunately this will not be possible with my new build as I would end up with very tall chimney stacks-this will look awful (and would not be condusive to my planning). I will therefore have to have have a turn in my flue-is this a problem do you think? Is there anything I should be telling the builder to do to make things work effectively in the long run.

    Also, the builder was asking me today about the size of the clay pots to use in the flue-I understand that an 8" is standard and I can use connectors to tie it onto the stove. At present I am looking at the charnwood Island 1 (think 8" is right here as there is a 6/8" connector). I will not be putting a stove in one room for considerable while (due to budget) so would 8" pots be the safest option here.

    Thanks again

    Hi:) Yes the 8inch clay pots would be the best and is standard for an open fire. 8inch being the minimum size for an open fire. For your stove to connect into the clay lined pots you can as you say buy a clay liner adapter to go from the stoves outlet size to the 8 inch clay pots. This adapter is very important as it keeps tar/ condensation inside the flue to evaporate away safely.

    If your chimney with the clay pots needs to change direction, ie needs to use a bend in the flue use the least tight bend as possible ie 15 or 30 degree at the most. It's fine to have a 15 or 30 degree bend with clay pots between each bend to get away from any obstacle. This is providing your chimney is wide enough to accommodate this.
    The more vertical though the better:) This will make any future liner in an easy job to lower down.
    The charnwood Island is a fab stove:D

    Stove Fan:)


  • #560
    Valleys
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Valleys


    Hi Stove fan
    I wonder could you give some advise to me please, I have recently had a inset stovax studio2 installed in a false chimney. What should the false chimney be slabbed up with, what type of boards? Also should a single or twin wall flue be used? The stove is 2 feet off the ground and the flue is going approx 8.5 feet to before it turns at a 45 degree angle
    Thanks in advance


  • #561
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Valleys wrote: »
    Hi Stove fan
    I wonder could you give some advise to me please, I have recently had a inset stovax studio2 installed in a false chimney. What should the false chimney be slabbed up with, what type of boards? Also should a single or twin wall flue be used? The stove is 2 feet off the ground and the flue is going approx 8.5 feet to before it turns at a 45 degree angle
    Thanks in advance

    Hi:)

    The false chimney breast should be built out of non combustible materials. If it was me building it the chimney breast framework would be the metal stud railling system and then clad in monolux/supalux/scamolex or vermiculite board. I don't think the pink fireproof plasterboard would be suitable as it's paper lined?

    The chimney to the inset fire would be all twin wall insulated. The inset stove itself supported on concrete blocks.

    I have only built one false chimneybreast but the base and closure plate was all concrete block and cast concrete. The top being metal rail and plasterboard. The chimney exited out through the wall below the cast concrete closure plate so the plasterboard was well away from the heat source.

    Stove Fan:)


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  • #562
    about2build
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭about2build


    Hi Stovefan and everyone else!!
    Looks like my decision is between the Esse 350 GS and the Mulberry stoker...both provide what i was looking for i.e. insert, back boiler and with an external air supply (mvhr friendly)....any thoughts on either....the mulberry looks better on the eye and also has convection heating to the room whichmight sway the decision


  • #563
    DaisyBeeton
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭DaisyBeeton


    Hello Stove Fan, or anyone who can help, please,

    I would greatly appreciate your superb, expert advice, please.
    I am really at my wit's end with a new build with my heating system. I have had three plumbers look at the problems and each one is contradictating the other and having conflicting solutions. I contacted the manufactuers as well, who told me have a plumber look at it - a 4th one??!
    I am so confused now that I don't know where to turn, or what to do.

    I have a Hamco Glenmore 30B Boiler Stove. It is supposed to offer 23 KWs to the water and "service the largest of homes and the most demanding of central heating requirements". But, it won't even heat 8 double rads for me! My new build house is 3,300 sq feet, with excellent insulation.

    I have oil central heating with a Firebird Boiler C44. The back boiler stove was an after thought. It is located in a recessed inglenook style fireplace, (see the photo of the location that I have attached, please), with 8" clay flue pipes, with a 30 degree bend on it, through masonry wall. The room is an open plan area of 25' X 20', with 8' ceilings, with excellent insulation.

    But, the stove/plumbing system aren't heating my rads. The upper inch or so of the rads gets bearly luke warm, while the rest of the rad remains ice cold. This is in spite of a coal fire for 10 or 11 hours a day. The water in the taps is steaming hot and even the skim on the wall where the clay pipe is passing through, above the mantle beam, has a single crack on it (another upset), so there seems to be massive heat being emitted from the stove itself.

    I have attached a photo of the stove's enamel flue pipe attached to a stainless adapator, which in turn is attached to the clay liners. Should this adapator be clay too, to suit the clay liner? Is this why the clay liner seems to be absorbing so much heat from the stainless adapator, which might have caused the crack on the wall, above the mantle beam?

    There are four pipes at the back of the stove, but only two are connected. Only 1 out of the 3 plumbers said that the 4 pipes should be connected. The other said that 4 pipes won't make any dramatic difference. The pump and stat are located on the opposite side of the masonry wall immediately behind the stove, I attached a photo of this too.

    The stat is set at 50 degress, but the pump only comes on for two minutes, every 10 minutes, regardless of whether I burn turf, wood, or coal, for 10 hours a day. Surely it should remain on for longer than just 2 minutes. Is the stat located on the correct pipe? One plumber moved it to vertical pipe and then the 2nd plumber came and put it back on the horizontal pipe again! It didn't seem to make any difference.

    I have 15 double rads installed and there are 6 more yet to be installed (3 cast iron Victorian style rads - totalling 18,300 BTUs and 3 towel rails, totalling 10,100 BTUs.

    The 15 rads that are presently installed comprise of:-
    2 X (1600mm wide x 500mm high), double
    1 X (1400mm wide x 500mm high), double
    1 X (1300mm wide x 500mm high), double
    4 X (1000mm wide x 500mm high), double
    3 X (800mm wide x 500mm high), double
    4 X (500mm wide x 500mm high), double.

    I know that this is a very high demand on the stove, so I tried to reduce the load on it by closing down 7 of those rads, which left just 8 double rads to be heated, but there wasn't any big difference in the temp of the rads - still just bearly lukewarm on the top area.

    I have a 300 litre triple coil, unvented Joule cylinder in the hotpress if that information is needed.

    I would be grateful for any advice, please.

    Thanks a million for your time.


  • #564
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    about2build wrote: »
    Hi Stovefan and everyone else!!
    Looks like my decision is between the Esse 350 GS and the Mulberry stoker...both provide what i was looking for i.e. insert, back boiler and with an external air supply (mvhr friendly)....any thoughts on either....the mulberry looks better on the eye and also has convection heating to the room whichmight sway the decision

    I have never seen these stoves to judge their quality so can't say which is better:( Personal choice is the thing:)

    Stove Fan:)


  • #565
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    DaisyBeeton wrote: »
    Hello Stove Fan, or anyone who can help, please,

    Hi:) I have had a look!!

    I would greatly appreciate your superb, expert advice, please.
    I am really at my wit's end with a new build with my heating system. I have had three plumbers look at the problems and each one is contradictating the other and having conflicting solutions. I contacted the manufactuers as well, who told me have a plumber look at it - a 4th one??!
    I am so confused now that I don't know where to turn, or what to do.

    I have a Hamco Glenmore 30B Boiler Stove. It is supposed to offer 23 KWs to the water and "service the largest of homes and the most demanding of central heating requirements". But, it won't even heat 8 double rads for me! My new build house is 3,300 sq feet, with excellent insulation.

    I have calculated you need 23kw just to heat your 15 double rads plus 9kw to heat the new rads to be installed:eek:. Then there is the heat needed to heat the hot water cylinder although this would heat up first with solid fuel and sounds like it's working.
    Too me the boiler stove just wouldn't be big enough as it's at it's maximum load already with the 15 rads. You would need to keep shovelling in coal to keep this heated.
    It should certainly run around half of the 15 rads. Have the oil heating on and then once the fire has been going switch off the oil heating. Try only having the first 5 rads on.
    How is the draw on the chimney? Does the thermostat work on the back of the stove?
    You can test this when the fire is lit by turning the thermostat knob down to it's lowest setting. The flames should subside and fire should slumber, conversly on the highest setting the fire should be very lively with plenty of flames until the temperature setting is satisfied by the stoves thermostat.
    Always set the thermostat on the stove on position 9 when lighting and turn down once rads and room are hot enough. The fire would need to blazing to get the rads hot for at least 90 minutes.
    The crack in the plaster is unusual unless it hadn't set before the fire was lit. Is the baffle plate correctly fitted in the stove? Follow baffle plate installation in the stoves user instructions if the stove has a baffle plate.
    On the plumbing photo with the pipe thermostat try moving it to the vertical position onto the left vertical pipe and set it to 43 degrees. There should be an injector tee fitted inside the compression tee on the compression tee fitting to the right of the pump
    These vertical pipes on the left of the photo do they connect to the hot water cylinder in the hotpress? On the pipework to the cylinder from the stove is there any valve on the return from the cylinder? A photo would help massively here:)
    On your pipes connected to your boiler stove it's only using the side outlets and not crossflowed. The bottom pipe should connect to the other bottom connection, so you have the pipe connections diagonally opposite.
    [/COLOR]I have oil central heating with a Firebird Boiler C44. The back boiler stove was an after thought. It is located in a recessed inglenook style fireplace, (see the photo of the location that I have attached, please), with 8" clay flue pipes, with a 30 degree bend on it, through masonry wall. The room is an open plan area of 25' X 20', with 8' ceilings, with excellent insulation.

    But, the stove/plumbing system aren't heating my rads. The upper inch or so of the rads gets bearly luke warm, while the rest of the rad remains ice cold. This is in spite of a coal fire for 10 or 11 hours a day. The water in the taps is steaming hot and even the skim on the wall where the clay pipe is passing through, above the mantle beam, has a single crack on it (another upset), so there seems to be massive heat being emitted from the stove itself.

    I have attached a photo of the stove's enamel flue pipe attached to a stainless adapator, which in turn is attached to the clay liners. Should this adapator be clay too, to suit the clay liner? Is this why the clay liner seems to be absorbing so much heat from the stainless adapator, which might have caused the crack on the wall, above the mantle beam?

    No this is fine in steel, but the wood should be removed!! Too close to the flue pipe.

    [/COLOR]There are four pipes at the back of the stove, but only two are connected. Only 1 out of the 3 plumbers said that the 4 pipes should be connected. The other said that 4 pipes won't make any dramatic difference. The pump and stat are located on the opposite side of the masonry wall immediately behind the stove, I attached a photo of this too.

    Only using two pipes is ok so long as the pipes are diagonally crossflowed. Some manufacturers state to link each of the 2 flows and two returns together.

    The stat is set at 50 degress, but the pump only comes on for two minutes, every 10 minutes, regardless of whether I burn turf, wood, or coal, for 10 hours a day. Surely it should remain on for longer than just 2 minutes. Is the stat located on the correct pipe? One plumber moved it to vertical pipe and then the 2nd plumber came and put it back on the horizontal pipe again! It didn't seem to make any difference.

    Set this to 43 degrees after moving to the left vertical pipe. What coal are you using? Is the wood well dry?

    [/COLOR]I have 15 double rads installed and there are 6 more yet to be installed (3 cast iron Victorian style rads - totalling 18,300 BTUs and 3 towel rails, totalling 10,100 BTUs.

    The 15 rads that are presently installed comprise of:-
    2 X (1600mm wide x 500mm high), double
    1 X (1400mm wide x 500mm high), double
    1 X (1300mm wide x 500mm high), double
    4 X (1000mm wide x 500mm high), double
    3 X (800mm wide x 500mm high), double
    4 X (500mm wide x 500mm high), double.

    I know that this is a very high demand on the stove, so I tried to reduce the load on it by closing down 7 of those rads, which left just 8 double rads to be heated, but there wasn't any big difference in the temp of the rads - still just bearly lukewarm on the top area.

    I have a 300 litre triple coil, unvented Joule cylinder in the hotpress if that information is needed.

    I would be grateful for any advice, please.

    Thanks a million for your time.

    Stove Fan:)


  • #566
    DaisyBeeton
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭DaisyBeeton


    Hi Stove Fan,
    Thank you ever so much for taking the time to reply and help me. I really appreciate it.

    You suggested changing the stove's own thermostat. I have tried this, but it had no effect whatsoever on the flames or fire. So, I dismissed that a long time ago.

    It's just the top inch of the rads that get luke warm, the rest remain cold. This is still the scenario even when I close off the upstairs rads, which leaves me with 8 doubles to be heated and the stove cant even manage that quantity on a bucket of coal every hour! The expense of it and absolutely no benefit for it. I am so disappointed with the stove's pathetic performance.

    The baffle plate seems to be fitted correctly. There isn't even a reference to it in the Manufactuer's Manual. But, it seems that it can only sit one way on the lips.

    Yes, the vertical pipes to the left of the pump photo do connect to the hot water cylinder in the hotpress. Yes, there is a gate valve on the return from the cylinder, which one plumber set it half open, and another plumber closed it almost completely, just left it open enough to let a trickle of water through, apparently. Which way would work best, in your opinion, please?

    I will need to get the pipes crossflowed alright at the back. I suggested that to each plumber that arrived ( as I tried to do my own research beforehand), but each thought that it wouldn't make all that much of a dramatic difference.

    Your suggestion about putting an injector tee inside the compression tee fitting to the right of the pump - is that to trigger the pump to come on more frequently?

    I burn Polish coal. I know you have recommendated to burn Smokless coal in your previous posts, but it's just I had the Polish coal bought already. There is a very strong draw on the chimney, which made me wonder if fitting a damper on the base of the upright flue out of the stove would help to retain some more of the heat in the stove body, maybe?

    What would your opinion be of my theory for the vertical crack over mantel - since the chimney has such a big draw, there seems to be raging heat travelling up through clay flues which seem to absorb and soak this heat behind the masonry and consequently crack the skim. The crack continues onto the overhead wall upstairs, in a vertical line as if following the clay flue.

    I thought that a twin wall insulated flue would help to retain the heat within the clay liner and not allow it radiate out into the surrounding lime mortar and masonry, but, I was told it's not an option for me to line the existing clay liners with an insulated flue now, because apart from it narrowing the stove's flue diameter, it would also be physically impossible to fit the twin wall up into the existing liners.

    Would the regular, solid fuel, flexi flue liner be of any benefit in retaining the heat within the clay liners, or is it, in itself, a conductor of heat?
    Yes, it sounds like the plaster wasn't dry alright, but the baffling thing is that the plaster was dried out for over two years before the stove was lite. Plus, I slowly tempered the stove by gradually burning small fires in it when I first lite it, for the first 3 or 4 days, so it wasn't as if I lite a raging lite in a cold new house. So, it's a very difficult situation.

    Thank you vey much.


  • #567
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    DaisyBeeton wrote: »
    Hi Stove Fan,
    Thank you ever so much for taking the time to reply and help me. I really appreciate it.
    No problem, If I can help I will:)

    You suggested changing the stove's own thermostat. I have tried this, but it had no effect whatsoever on the flames or fire. So, I dismissed that a long time ago.
    It sounds very much like the stoves thermostat isn't functioning, the control knob marked up to 9:rolleyes: This would make a big difference as the stoves thermostat regulates the fires burn rate by controlling the air supply to the fire. I would try to get the manufacturer to visit as the stove should heat at the very least 5 double rads.

    It's just the top inch of the rads that get luke warm, the rest remain cold. This is still the scenario even when I close off the upstairs rads, which leaves me with 8 doubles to be heated and the stove cant even manage that quantity on a bucket of coal every hour! The expense of it and absolutely no benefit for it. I am so disappointed with the stove's pathetic performance.

    A bucket of coal an hour is a lot of coal for no rad heat:(

    The baffle plate seems to be fitted correctly. There isn't even a reference to it in the Manufactuer's Manual. But, it seems that it can only sit one way on the lips.

    There may not be a baffle because the boiler itself forms one.

    Yes, the vertical pipes to the left of the pump photo do connect to the hot water cylinder in the hotpress. Yes, there is a gate valve on the return from the cylinder, which one plumber set it half open, and another plumber closed it almost completely, just left it open enough to let a trickle of water through, apparently. Which way would work best, in your opinion, please?

    I would say the latter, open a bit. Also move the electrically operated pipe stat above pump to the far left vertical pipe and set it slightly above 40 degrees on the dial.

    I will need to get the pipes crossflowed alright at the back. I suggested that to each plumber that arrived ( as I tried to do my own research beforehand), but each thought that it wouldn't make all that much of a dramatic difference.

    Crossflowing will help as it's a combination of factors that can affect performance.

    Your suggestion about putting an injector tee inside the compression tee fitting to the right of the pump - is that to trigger the pump to come on more frequently?

    No, The injector tee is always mentioned to fit in any boiler stove circuit using a 2 pipe system like yours. I'm not fully sure why it should be fitted, but from a guess/looks yours may not have one.

    I burn Polish coal. I know you have recommendated to burn Smokless coal in your previous posts, but it's just I had the Polish coal bought already. There is a very strong draw on the chimney, which made me wonder if fitting a damper on the base of the upright flue out of the stove would help to retain some more of the heat in the stove body, maybe?

    Polish coal burns very hot and your main problem could well be the excessive draw on the chimney. Fitting a draught stabilizer or a damper may well help, This stabiliser needs to be installed by a competent stove installer as your air supply may need to be enlarged. Also check the stoves door seals to make sure they seal well. It looks as if most of the heat isn't being transfered to the boiler rather the chimney.


    What would your opinion be of my theory for the vertical crack over mantel - since the chimney has such a big draw, there seems to be raging heat travelling up through clay flues which seem to absorb and soak this heat behind the masonry and consequently crack the skim. The crack continues onto the overhead wall upstairs, in a vertical line as if following the clay flue.

    This needs investigating to make sure its only the plaster that has cracked.

    I thought that a twin wall insulated flue would help to retain the heat within the clay liner and not allow it radiate out into the surrounding lime mortar and masonry, but, I was told it's not an option for me to line the existing clay liners with an insulated flue now, because apart from it narrowing the stove's flue diameter, it would also be physically impossible to fit the twin wall up into the existing liners.

    The liner would of been ideal but as the stoves outlet is 8 inch and the clay liners are 8 inch, there wouldn't be any room to fit the new stainless liner down the clay flue:(

    Would the regular, solid fuel, flexi flue liner be of any benefit in retaining the heat within the clay liners, or is it, in itself, a conductor of heat?
    Yes, it sounds like the plaster wasn't dry alright, but the baffling thing is that the plaster was dried out for over two years before the stove was lite. Plus, I slowly tempered the stove by gradually burning small fires in it when I first lite it, for the first 3 or 4 days, so it wasn't as if I lite a raging lite in a cold new house. So, it's a very difficult situation.


    Thank you vey much.
    Has there ever been a chimney fire? This would explain the cracking.

    I think you really need the manufacturers to visit to verify everything and test the flue for over drawing. It should certainly perform much better than this:(.

    Good luck and I hope you get it resolved. Stove Fan:)


  • #568
    rpmcs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 186 ✭✭rpmcs


    looks like 3/4 inch pipes coming off stove, should these not be inch?


  • #569
    rpmcs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 186 ✭✭rpmcs


    i would have esse gswich before stoker any day, seen both in action


  • #570
    JMSE
    Registered Users Posts: 902 ✭✭✭JMSE


    esse 350gs with traditional cast iron door (rest of stove is steel having said that)

    IMGP3120.jpg


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  • #571
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    rpmcs wrote: »
    looks like 3/4 inch pipes coming off stove, should these not be inch?

    Could well be, but very difficult to tell from a photo? It should still work better than it is even if the pipes are only 3/4:(. The pipes to the cylinder should be 1 inch certainly.

    Stove Fan:)


  • #572
    Mutz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 822 ✭✭✭Mutz


    Got our stove installed on the 24th January 2012:

    It got great ratings from Whatstove.co.uk: http://www.whatstove.co.uk/firefox-stoves/firefox-5-stove.html

    Must agree the heat output is great and is easy to control. We were going to go with a Boru Croi Beag inset stove but due to being screwed around by the shop we were buying off we changed our mind and went with the Firefox. We are glad we changed our mind!

    Room size is 18' x 12' x 8' and we can leave the sitting room door open now without worrying about the cold!

    Pic:


  • #573
    Blanchguy
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭Blanchguy


    Hi,

    I had an existing fireplace removed a couple of years ago and a stove installed. The installer bricked up the fireplace ope, sat the stove in front of it and the rear flue from the stove is vented into the void where the fireplace was. However any soot that falls down the chimney builds up below the level of the flue from the stove and isn't very easy to remove.

    Is there any way around this - my only access is through the stove or through an inspection plate above the stove. Should I put another inspection plate below the stove - (it stands about 300mm off the floor) so I can shovel out any soot that falls down the chimney?

    Thanks,
    Blanch


  • #574
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Blanchguy wrote: »
    Hi,

    I had an existing fireplace removed a couple of years ago and a stove installed. The installer bricked up the fireplace ope, sat the stove in front of it and the rear flue from the stove is vented into the void where the fireplace was. However any soot that falls down the chimney builds up below the level of the flue from the stove and isn't very easy to remove.

    Is there any way around this - my only access is through the stove or through an inspection plate above the stove. Should I put another inspection plate below the stove - (it stands about 300mm off the floor) so I can shovel out any soot that falls down the chimney?

    Thanks,
    Blanch

    Yes, you need a way to remove the soot. A soot door may be an option below providing it's fully sealed and doesn't let smoke/fumes out.
    Another option may be a small section of flue pipe with removable cap?

    Or buy an ash vac and just lower the nozzle/hose down to suck it up.

    Stove Fan:)


  • #575
    Antxon
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Antxon


    Hi everyone

    First post so here it goes….. I was wondering if anybody out there is using heat from their stove downstairs to heat additional upstairs rooms via ducting in the open webbed joist system. My idea for a new build was to have a closable vent directly over the stove, and when the room is hot (i.e. too hot for comfort) to allow the extra heat to rise and distribute to upstairs by simple convection without the assistance of a fan. Is this even possible without a fan? By not having a fan I would hope there is not a large pressure difference that might affect the burn performance of the stove. Hope to install demand control ventilation with mechanical extraction, and have good airtight detailing, insulation etc and a pipe running under the floor to act as an external air supply beside the stove. All advice greatly appreciated!!


    Antxon


  • #576
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Antxon wrote: »
    Hi everyone

    First post so here it goes….. I was wondering if anybody out there is using heat from their stove downstairs to heat additional upstairs rooms via ducting in the open webbed joist system. My idea for a new build was to have a closable vent directly over the stove, and when the room is hot (i.e. too hot for comfort) to allow the extra heat to rise and distribute to upstairs by simple convection without the assistance of a fan. Is this even possible without a fan? By not having a fan I would hope there is not a large pressure difference that might affect the burn performance of the stove. Hope to install demand control ventilation with mechanical extraction, and have good airtight detailing, insulation etc and a pipe running under the floor to act as an external air supply beside the stove. All advice greatly appreciated!!
    Antxon






    The only problem with your idea of a diy job is the spread of smoke/ fire in the event of a fire.
    You can buy insert stoves with air duct options in France and probably here to help heat other rooms. You may find something similar here? Something like this:
    http://www.bricodepot.fr/tourlaville/node/479808
    Or
    http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Fondis-Passion-insert-stove.html Pricy:eek:

    A relative had the two vent setup in France in a cold uninsulated house and it wasnt great at heating other rooms:rolleyes: It may work well if the insulation is great. It took the chill off but that was all.

    Myself I would prefer a boiler stove and rads as the built in fan on the insert stove is quite noisy.

    Stove Fan:)


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  • #577
    Antxon
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Antxon


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    The only problem with your idea of a diy job is the spread of smoke/ fire in the event of a fire.
    You can buy insert stoves with air duct options in France and probably here to help heat other rooms. You may find something similar here? Something like this:
    http://www.bricodepot.fr/tourlaville/node/479808
    Or
    http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Fondis-Passion-insert-stove.html Pricy:eek:

    A relative had the two vent setup in France in a cold uninsulated house and it wasnt great at heating other rooms:rolleyes: It may work well if the insulation is great. It took the chill off but that was all.

    Myself I would prefer a boiler stove and rads as the built in fan on the insert stove is quite noisy.

    Stove Fan:)


    Thanks for reply Stove Fan. Yeah fair point about spread of smoke in a fire; maybe some kind of system damper connected to a fire alarm that automatically closed the vent in the event of a fire.

    Not so keen on the insert stoves or the fans (hence my idea) and yes that is far too pricy for my budget!
    I do like the idea of stove with boiler , but would also like to have a dry stove in case of power outage (from what I understand a boiler stove can´t be lit if no power in house ? ) , and also ease of plumbing design. Can you see theses as issues for not deciding on a boiler stove?

    The stove will be in living and kitchen area of about 40m2, (as I said with good insulation, airtightness etc) and also south facing with lots of glazing.

    What rating of stove do you think is required if you only need to heat this area (dry stove) in house with this kind of spec.

    Thanks again

    Antxon


  • #578
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Antxon wrote: »
    Thanks for reply Stove Fan. Yeah fair point about spread of smoke in a fire; maybe some kind of system damper connected to a fire alarm that automatically closed the vent in the event of a fire.

    Not so keen on the insert stoves or the fans (hence my idea) and yes that is far too pricy for my budget!
    I do like the idea of stove with boiler , but would also like to have a dry stove in case of power outage (from what I understand a boiler stove can´t be lit if no power in house ? ) , and also ease of plumbing design. Can you see theses as issues for not deciding on a boiler stove?

    The stove will be in living and kitchen area of about 40m2, (as I said with good insulation, airtightness etc) and also south facing with lots of glazing.

    What rating of stove do you think is required if you only need to heat this area (dry stove) in house with this kind of spec.

    Thanks again

    Antxon

    Hi:) We have a bungalow with only a boiler stove for heating and hot water. Our hot water is heated by gravity (In loft) and we also have a gravity rad near the stove in the event of a powercut 1.2kw.
    So far in the 2 years we have lived here we haven't had a powercut. But in the event of a powercut the hot water cylinder and heat leak rad(s) would stop the stove from boiling the water. I would close the fire up so it only slumbers:).
    You could get a plumber to design the system with several gravity radiators to dissipate the heat from the stove when the pump isn't running.

    In my opinion a solid fuel system can be designed perfectly safely in the event of a powercut:D Providing you have gravity hot water and several gravity radiators.

    To heat a 40sqm area with good insulation I would say 6 kw would be plenty:). If your room is virtually passive build practically next to nothing:D.

    Stove Fan:)


  • #579
    Antxon
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Antxon


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi:) We have a bungalow with only a boiler stove for heating and hot water. Our hot water is heated by gravity (In loft) and we also have a gravity rad near the stove in the event of a powercut 1.2kw.
    So far in the 2 years we have lived here we haven't had a powercut. But in the event of a powercut the hot water cylinder and heat leak rad(s) would stop the stove from boiling the water. I would close the fire up so it only slumbers:).
    You could get a plumber to design the system with several gravity radiators to dissipate the heat from the stove when the pump isn't running.

    In my opinion a solid fuel system can be designed perfectly safely in the event of a powercut:D Providing you have gravity hot water and several gravity radiators.

    To heat a 40sqm area with good insulation I would say 6 kw would be plenty:). If your room is virtually passive build practically next to nothing:D.

    Stove Fan:)


    I will have a chat with my plumber and see what we can come up with.He suggested a boiler stove in the first place , so he has no problem with integrating it with rest of the system. Hopefully house design will allow for boiler option if I do decide to go down that route. Thanks again for the help Stove Fan biggrin.gif


  • #580
    Sidd
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭Sidd


    Hi All,

    What would your opinion be on this stove?

    http://www.krby-bef.cz/en/product-catalogue/fireplace-inserts/start/start-6-cl

    Thanks!


  • #581
    biggs2010
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭biggs2010


    Hi All,

    I am looking to buy an insert stove for a 16 inch fireplace, I have been quoted €680 for a 4kw non boiler Fully fitted. Is this good value?

    Cheers!


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  • #582
    Katharee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭Katharee


    We installed a Boru Croi Beag in our living room just before Christmas. Cost of the stove and installation was €800.


  • #583
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Sidd wrote: »
    Hi All,

    What would your opinion be on this stove?

    http://www.krby-bef.cz/en/product-catalogue/fireplace-inserts/start/start-6-cl

    Thanks!

    Hi sorry I don't know anything about them:( If you can view there products and compare makes and quarantee and testing standards it would be great.

    Stove Fan:)


  • #584
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    biggs2010 wrote: »
    Hi All,

    I am looking to buy an insert stove for a 16 inch fireplace, I have been quoted €680 for a 4kw non boiler Fully fitted. Is this good value?

    Cheers!

    I really don't know:) Generally you pay around 800-1500 for a well known make insert stove, so sounds like a chinese import inset stove at that price;)

    It may well be very good, see if you can get owner reviews on the model you are interested in:)

    Stove Fan:)


  • #585
    creation mark
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭creation mark


    Hi Stove fan, I'm looking for a bit of advice please, i was asked to price a job today, the client wants a solid fuel stove (open system) to heat rads & hot water, combined with an oil fueled boiler A rated condensing (sealed system), rads & hot water with the addition of solar panels to do hot water only,it's a bugalow that she intends on converting the attic,hotpress is staying put downstairs, there are 5 zones & i hope to use a 5 zone system link instead of motorised valves

    1.bedrooms.
    2.living areas
    3.new bedroom in attic conversion.
    4.new office in attic conversion.
    5.Hot water.

    My questions are,

    1. How do i connect an open vented system to a sealed system,i've read of a kind of baffle system, any ideas??

    2. As the cylinder is staying put downstairs & she doesn't want her floors dug up/disturbed, is it possible to run the flow & return from a solid fuel device (stove), up the wall,across the attic and down? I vaguely remember only ever being able to rise those pipes to the cylinder if its located upstairs or dropping them in the floor then rising to the cylinder if, as in this case, its located on the ground floor...can you shed any light on this please?

    Thank you,

    Mark


  • #586
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    creation mark wrote: »
    Hi Stove fan, I'm looking for a bit of advice please, i was asked to price a job today, the client wants a solid fuel stove (open system) to heat rads & hot water, combined with an oil fueled boiler A rated condensing (sealed system), rads & hot water with the addition of solar panels to do hot water only,it's a bugalow that she intends on converting the attic,hotpress is staying put downstairs, there are 5 zones & i hope to use a 5 zone system link instead of motorised valves

    1.bedrooms.
    2.living areas
    3.new bedroom in attic conversion.
    4.new office in attic conversion.
    5.Hot water.

    My questions are,

    1. How do i connect an open vented system to a sealed system,i've read of a kind of baffle system, any ideas??

    2. As the cylinder is staying put downstairs & she doesn't want her floors dug up/disturbed, is it possible to run the flow & return from a solid fuel device (stove), up the wall,across the attic and down? I vaguely remember only ever being able to rise those pipes to the cylinder if its located upstairs or dropping them in the floor then rising to the cylinder if, as in this case, its located on the ground floor...can you shed any light on this please?

    Thank you,

    Mark

    Hi:) You can buy stoves which you can plumb in direct to a sealed heating system
    http://www.broseleyfires.com/Link-Up-Systems.html

    http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Aquatherm-Eco-F15-insert-boiler-stove.html

    There are probably others:)

    The only other way to link the two appliances is a open vented thermal store.

    If it's a new installation I would chose an open vented oil boiler linked to a systemlink.

    I'm sure you can link the two with a systemlink but it still needs to be open vented on the stove side. Sealed on oil side.

    Personally though I think it would be best to just fit a non boiler stove:D


    Stove Fan:)


  • #587
    creation mark
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭creation mark


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi:) You can buy stoves which you can plumb in direct to a sealed heating system
    http://www.broseleyfires.com/Link-Up-Systems.html

    http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Aquatherm-Eco-F15-insert-boiler-stove.html

    There are probably others:)

    The only other way to link the two appliances is a open vented thermal store.

    If it's a new installation I would chose an open vented oil boiler linked to a systemlink.

    I'm sure you can link the two with a systemlink but it still needs to be open vented on the stove side. Sealed on oil side.

    Personally though I think it would be best to just fit a non boiler stove:D


    Stove Fan:)

    legend, thanks for the info bro, it's been a while since i installed an open system lol. it's a heating upgrade,boiler is going to be a firebird heatpac system boiler, just wasn't sure on linking the two, much appreciated


  • #588
    DickyRock
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭DickyRock


    Hi Stove Fan. I recently bought a Morso 1430, which has a 5" flue, and have been told by a potential installer that because the company from which he sources his parts doesn't sell 5" twin-wall that he would be using a 5-6" adapter and then running 6" the rest of the way. If a stoves efficiency is based on the flue width of the stove being maintained through the system, should I be thinking twice about hiring him? His quote for parts and labour is quite competitive, and he's HETAS certified, so I'm in two minds about it. The fact that I've a stove in my dining room with a candle in it 'for effect' and it's baltic outside at the moment is not helping my ability to make an informed decision either! ;)


  • #589
    Putty Man
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Putty Man


    Quick question on how to make a flue airtight...

    Its a new build and I'm spending a fortune trying to make it airtight. I'm installing 2 stoves and we're at the stage of fitting the twin wall flues which will run up side by side.

    Where these flues go through the upstairs ceiling and into the attic, how can I make this airtight? At the moment its basically a big hole in the membrane, equilalent of an open window.

    Any advice greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.


  • #590
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    DickyRock wrote: »
    Hi Stove Fan. I recently bought a Morso 1430, which has a 5" flue, and have been told by a potential installer that because the company from which he sources his parts doesn't sell 5" twin-wall that he would be using a 5-6" adapter and then running 6" the rest of the way. If a stoves efficiency is based on the flue width of the stove being maintained through the system, should I be thinking twice about hiring him? His quote for parts and labour is quite competitive, and he's HETAS certified, so I'm in two minds about it. The fact that I've a stove in my dining room with a candle in it 'for effect' and it's baltic outside at the moment is not helping my ability to make an informed decision either! ;)

    Hi:) Increasing the flue size is fine. In fact the 6 inch is now a requirement in the UK on non defra approved stoves of 5 inch flue and should use 6 inch. This is because 5 inch blocks up quicker.

    Ie non defra approved 5 inch flue should use 6 inch.

    Defra approved can use 5 inch as cleaner burning so less soot.

    Stove Fan:)


  • #591
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Putty Man wrote: »
    Quick question on how to make a flue airtight...

    Its a new build and I'm spending a fortune trying to make it airtight. I'm installing 2 stoves and we're at the stage of fitting the twin wall flues which will run up side by side.

    Where these flues go through the upstairs ceiling and into the attic, how can I make this airtight? At the moment its basically a big hole in the membrane, equilalent of an open window.

    Any advice greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

    Probably a masonry chimney would of been better for going through the roof except the cold thermal bridge:rolleyes:.

    I don't really know but I don't really see any problem. So long the ceiling plate to loft is sealed well and it's installed to regs.

    A prime need for a room sealed stove with external air supply.

    Not much help I know:(

    Stove Fan:)


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  • #592
    DickyRock
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭DickyRock


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi:) Increasing the flue size is fine. In fact the 6 inch is now a requirement in the UK on non defra approved stoves of 5 inch flue and should use 6 inch. This is because 5 inch blocks up quicker.

    Ie non defra approved 5 inch flue should use 6 inch.

    Defra approved can use 5 inch as cleaner burning so less soot.

    Stove Fan:)

    Interesting, and of course it makes perfect sense when you talk about it like that. Thanks Stove Fan :)


  • #593
    Putty Man
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Putty Man


    Thanks Stove Fan.

    Yeah we have a room sealed stove, which will have external air when we get to that stage.

    Would have went for a masonary chimney (as the SS flues only last for 10-12 years apparently!), but due to the shape of the house this was not possible.

    You may have answered my ques tho. Is this ceiling plate to the loft airtight? I kind of assumed these plates/firestops etc. weren't (checked the company websites) but I really hope I'm wrong about that.


  • #594
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Putty Man wrote: »
    Thanks Stove Fan.

    Yeah we have a room sealed stove, which will have external air when we get to that stage.

    Would have went for a masonary chimney (as the SS flues only last for 10-12 years apparently!), but due to the shape of the house this was not possible.

    You may have answered my ques tho. Is this ceiling plate to the loft airtight? I kind of assumed these plates/firestops etc. weren't (checked the company websites) but I really hope I'm wrong about that.

    Yes I would certainly think the firestops were airtight from underneath but had a grille above to let heat escape from around the flue where it passes through timber floors:) It would certainly be bad if they weren't as they would spread smoke/flames:D

    Stove Fan:)


  • #595
    Putty Man
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Putty Man


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Yes I would certainly think the firestops were airtight from underneath but had a grille above to let heat escape from around the flue where it passes through timber floors:) It would certainly be bad if they weren't as they would spread smoke/flames:D

    Stove Fan:)

    I don't quite follow you here Stove Fan. What I need is something that will stop any air from passing from underneath the ceiling, around the outside of the flues, to above the cieling into the attic. I'm hoping the flues themselves will keep the smoke and flames in!


  • #596
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Putty Man wrote: »
    I don't quite follow you here Stove Fan. What I need is something that will stop any air from passing from underneath the ceiling, around the outside of the flues, to above the cieling into the attic. I'm hoping the flues themselves will keep the smoke and flames in!

    When you buy the firestop parts you will have a solid steel plate screwed to the ceiling and above upstairs at floor level a grill only to let the heat escape around the pipe where it passes through the floor.
    This allows any warm air trapped to escape around the flue in the void between ceiling and floor, but does not allow air to pass through from downstairs as the steel plate fixed to the ceiling downstairs only has the right sized hole for the flue to pass through.

    Through the roof you will just have a interior decorative plate and external flashing kit.

    Stove Fan:)


  • #597
    DickyRock
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭DickyRock


    Hi Stove Fan, I have one more question which I hope you won't mind answering; single wall flue runs - is it better to have as much flue as possible within the room in which the stove is situated to maximise the heat return on the stove, or does the amount of heat radiating from a single wall combined with the speed at which the air is moving vertically through it not really going to make much difference on top of the heat radiating from the stove itself? I was planning on a 250mm run of single wall from the stove, into a 45 bend, then another 250mm connecting to the sw-tw adaptor similar to the pic attached Attachment not found., but I'm wondering would I be better off with a 1m run of single-wall instead? The room the stove is in has standard 8' ceilings and will only be marginally raised off the ground with 1cm tiles. The stove is on 250mm legs so the top flue exit on the stove is approx. 720mm off the hearth.


  • #598
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    DickyRock wrote: »
    Hi Stove Fan, I have one more question which I hope you won't mind answering; single wall flue runs - is it better to have as much flue as possible within the room in which the stove is situated to maximise the heat return on the stove, or does the amount of heat radiating from a single wall combined with the speed at which the air is moving vertically through it not really going to make much difference on top of the heat radiating from the stove itself? I was planning on a 250mm run of single wall from the stove, into a 45 bend, then another 250mm connecting to the sw-tw adaptor similar to the pic attached Attachment not found., but I'm wondering would I be better off with a 1m run of single-wall instead? The room the stove is in has standard 8' ceilings and will only be marginally raised off the ground with 1cm tiles. The stove is on 250mm legs so the top flue exit on the stove is approx. 720mm off the hearth.


    Hi, Your pic didnt work.
    Are you exiting out through the wall? If this is the case I would run 600mm of single wall and singlewall 45 degree bend and then join it to the twinwall going through the wall at 45 degrees to meet the 135 degree T piece.
    General quidance states no more than 1m of single skin flue pipe mainly because too much can cool the flue down too much. (See link) Personally I would fit a metre or 1.5 whichever looks the best if going vertically out the roof and then go to twinwall.

    Depending on the twinwall manufacturer you can buy a taper reducer which looks nicer than the different sizes if going vertical.

    Don't forget that the single walled pipe must be 3x the diameter of the pipe away from combustible surfaces unless heat shielded, ie plasterboard,timber etc.

    See. http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/flue-distance-to-combustibles.html

    Stove Fan:)


  • #599
    DickyRock
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭DickyRock


    Thanks Stove Fan. Sorry about the attachment. I've re-attached now. 600mm single wall it is so. Because the Morso 1430 has a rear heat shield I am hoping to be able to have the stove 150mm from a plastered cavity block wall, with the flue exiting through the wall. If I find that the plaster is beginning to crack then I will put a heatshield on the wall, although not scamalax as I don't like the look of it, so I would probably go for a metal sheet.

    My parts list now looks like this;

    1 x 600mm x 125mm single-wall matt black
    1 x 45 degree bend x 125mm single-wall matt black
    1 x 125mm to 150mm flue adaptor
    1 x single-wall to twin-wall adaptor
    1 x 150mm x 45 deg. rosette black
    1 x 150mm x 45 deg. twin-wall tee
    1 x twin-wall 150mm flue wall support
    3 x twin-wall 150mm adjustable bracket
    4 x 1000mm x 150mm twin-wall flue
    2 x 150mm x 45 deg. twin-wall bend
    1 x 150mm cowl

    Does this look about right to you? My house is a two storey dormer, so I may get away with just a 3m run of twinwall on the outside, although I am aware that total flue length is recommended to be at least 4.5m, but with the inside run, through the adaptors and into the tee, it should be over a metre, so if I can save myself a €100 on a length of 1000m twin-wall I'd like to do that if I could.


  • #600
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    DickyRock wrote: »
    Thanks Stove Fan. Sorry about the attachment. I've re-attached now. 600mm single wall it is so. Because the Morso 1430 has a rear heat shield I am hoping to be able to have the stove 150mm from a plastered cavity block wall, with the flue exiting through the wall. If I find that the plaster is beginning to crack then I will put a heatshield on the wall, although not scamalax as I don't like the look of it, so I would probably go for a metal sheet.

    My parts list now looks like this;

    1 x 600mm x 125mm single-wall matt black
    1 x 45 degree bend x 125mm single-wall matt black
    1 x 125mm to 150mm flue adaptor
    1 x single-wall to twin-wall adaptor
    1 x 150mm x 45 deg. rosette black
    1 x 150mm x 45 deg. twin-wall tee
    1 x twin-wall 150mm flue wall support
    3 x twin-wall 150mm adjustable bracket
    4 x 1000mm x 150mm twin-wall flue
    2 x 150mm x 45 deg. twin-wall bend
    1 x 150mm cowl

    Does this look about right to you? My house is a two storey dormer, so I may get away with just a 3m run of twinwall on the outside, although I am aware that total flue length is recommended to be at least 4.5m, but with the inside run, through the adaptors and into the tee, it should be over a metre, so if I can save myself a €100 on a length of 1000m twin-wall I'd like to do that if I could.

    H, Yes your parts list looks fine:) If your using a twinwall support base and a 45 degree T you will need an end cap for it.
    The 2, 45 degree twinwall bends are they for going around the eaves/gutters? If so try to use 30 degree bends, less resistance and easier to sweep although not as neat as the 45 degree bends. The less tight bends the better:)

    Where the twinwall flue goes through the wall at 45 degrees buy an adjustable length:D makes the job much easier!

    If your wall is direct wet plastered and not drylined then yes no problem with the single wall flue pipe being near it.

    You can always raise the height of the flue if there is a problem:)

    150mm from the wall is fine.
    http://www.knight-stoves.co.uk/Instructions/o4_instructions.pdf

    Stove Fan:)


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  • #601
    DickyRock
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭DickyRock


    Thanks for that link, and for 30 deg. bend tips Stove Fan. :D Every answer seems to lead to another question, so I hope you have the patience to bear with me! ;) Twinwall-support bases; the guy I have been in discussions with about doing the install has said one wouldn't be required to support a flue length of 3-4m. I was reluctant to agree with him, as the alternative is to run a metre length of twinwall at a 45 deg. angle through the wall and have a 45 deg. bend at the end of that on the outside, with the 3-4m run above it. The wall brackets would be providing horizontal support, but vertical support is then down to the metre of twinwall running through the wall. The installer is certified, so I am second guessing myself, but when looking at the recommendations of the companies that make twinwall flues, they all say the brackets are only for horizontal support, and that a base support is needed for the vertical. What would your opinion be on this?


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