Cork GAA Discussion Thread

zetecescort · 17-11-2013 10:46pm

Just after seeing on the Cork GAA twitter that Youghal are due to play the British Champions on Dec 1st. No mention if it's to be played here or in Britain

thinkstoomuch1 · 17-11-2013 11:10pm

zetecescort wrote: »

Just after seeing on the Cork GAA twitter that Youghal are due to play the British Champions on Dec 1st. No mention if it's to be played here or in Britain

I heard after the match its london irish or the club close to them.Be great if it was fulham,as theres a cork man doing great work over their,kilshannigs Ruby,think its michael or john.Thomas o leary was even helping them at some training.

rambojon · 18-11-2013 12:17am

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Would they go to newcastle west?a fine ptich and held the limerick county final.

Id say clyda would prefer a ptich like that than the gaelic grounds,the big open spaces wouldnt suit their style.

clyda will be helped by the conditions this time of year ..pitches getting very heavy.. miltown r small side physically.

havent got a kalou · 18-11-2013 12:52am

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Thats a great point and i think it could be their undoing against better sides but if they become only the third cork side to win the munster title at this grade,it would be some going considering macroom,ballincollig,mallow,all flatter to decieve.

Clyda play to their strengths,dont have top quality forwards but they get by without them.Their a credit to north cork and cork football,and unlike some mid cork teams dont blame everyone for their problems,they jurt get on with it .

Where is the final on?

Just saw a recording of the midelton game,and all my fears were proven,outside of lehane who was superb,a great goal of super reflexes,they had no real game changer.

Luke done okay,but how many times have i said,a man of hes talent must do more.
My biggest fears were at full back and half forward,and it reflects poor management they didnt react to the cracks that were evident.

I said midelton were like limerick up front,a hard working half forward line that would win ball but couldnt do what a forward must do is Score.

Ryan and o shea the main examples.Great honest players,but played out of position up front,cant score four or five points.

They ,i said would be exposed against better teams,today they were.

Full back,o mahony was awful,and the goal exposed him again as a ball player,not an orthdox full back.

For all those that say he is corks answer,i suggest people watch the u21 game against tipp,mallow last week,the county final and now today.What is sad is a very very good player is made look poor,simply because he is asked to do a job,he doesnt have the skills for.An out and out corner back,attacks the ball,never minds the square.Too clean a hurler for such a central posisiton.

Jamie nagle ,superb,this guy has been senasitonal all year,a rock today,a real leader when so many went missing around him,he fought for every ball.

A certainty for the league.

If cork don't unearth a full back,i would seriously think about playing him there.Should of been their today for midelton today.

He was strong,superb hand under the ball,tough,hard,and not afraid to mix it.He plays the man rather than the ball ,as rarely will both get past him.When cork have put o neil,murphy,o mahony in at full,they will surely see nagle has the attributes that may make him a top full back.

Plenty of hurling.He needs to be tried with spillane.The rock was a wing forward for midelton cbs until Bertie og murphy realised he had the makings for a full back.Mclirney of Clare was a forward but now a top full back.

They were all converted because they all had the physicality,hand and hurling to be a no 3.Nagle has the same attributes.

Bud hartnett again like all year ,flattered to decieve.Wont fight for the dirty ball.Missed a great goal chance.

Cormac walsh done well never gave an inch and a great touch.

Haughney was solid in fairness,and with the superb dowling he couldnt be faulted.

As for lehane ,like i said the bridge had a plan for him,but he was superb,it is a shame o farell and hartnett never stepped up to help him.
Jamie shanahan,golden,and morey were magnificent for the bridge ,and they deserved the win.
Giligan was very good,a great point ,and at 37 hes attuide and work rate ,a few of the midelton lads much younger ,should try and replicate.He always showed for the ball.

A dissapointment ,and cork really could have done with a good club run,and it really shows those stupid critics of newtown hurling, never realised how good cork hurling had it,when they were at the top of the game.Like clyda,in football,their a small club,an easy target,but people wont realise how good they were til their gone and we see what comes after them.

The one good thing,is midelton are a young team and i have no doubt they will come again but tactially they will have to be much shrewder,and realise that while you will get away with things in cork,weaknesses will be exposed in Munster.

Credit to the haven for another county title ,u16, truly the heartbeat of west cork football and indeed cork football this year.Another team that doesnt get the credit it deserves.

Hard luck to Boherbue ladies today.
Congratualions to kilshannig u14 ladies for their win yesterday.
Theirs a great game next week ,cork v kerry,ladies chairty match in Bantry for the late great Donal walsh(rip)

A great cause,i would go only for the clyda game.Credit to both teams for taking part and graham canty also for organising it.

Speaking of bantry,they beat mallow yesterday,u16 replay.But i heard mark foley (dentist 2-7 against tipp in 1990)son was meant to be awesome.

A big strong lad(meant to be very tall for he's age), but very pacey,i hear he was brillant ,and one with real talent for the future.

In regards ,newtown win yesterday it was a superb achievement to do the double.
Darragh guiney was masterful.

I was asked by a poster about,Josh beasang ,and garan manley ,they were okay ,tried hard but in truth newtown were on top all over the field,so its hard to judge any young lads.Just one of those days for mideleton.

They have been brillant all year,and for midelton cbs also.

Garan ,i think is u16 again next year,thats how good he is that he is in a dean ryan cup final next saturday.

How did that centre back play for Newtown??, he had some game over in blarney in the county final !

thinkstoomuch1 · 18-11-2013 1:59am

rambojon wrote: »

clyda will be helped by the conditions this time of year ..pitches getting very heavy.. miltown r small side physically.

I agree,and a heavy day suit them,but as the county final showed on a dry day they can play if needs be.Clyda play a possesion,tidy game,nothing high risk.

I don't know much bout miltown but any side that beats a kerry team deserves serious respect.Clyda ,unlike other cork sides wont get carried away with today.They have kissane,carey and sullivan from the cork minor 2010,but the single key ingredient for this team,and Ned english deserves immense credit,is the sum of the parts as a unit is greater than any indivual talent.

And as much as they rely on kissane and carey,they dont score much ,and arent the focal point of their attack,kissane may wear 11,, but number only,and thats good in a way as every single player knows must play their part or their in trouble.

Midelton for example relied too much on lehane,clyda dont have that luxury,so in a way there more fncused as they know all for one,one for all.

Its far easier for teams to negate the influence of a forward than a back,and kissane and carey influence at the back in defending will be key,today is the ist goal,they conceded all year.

They tend to defend as a pack,12 men at times and it will take a serious forward unit to break them.

They counter attack at pace.They also keep ball for long periods ,and critics dont like it,but lets be realistic, teams will be remembered more for being a winner than a purist,espiceally when the team doesnt have 15 silky players.

A credit to cork,such a small rural club,always fighting everday struggles,lost ray carey to america for a good part,but they never moan,they get on with it.

The Ned English factor cannot be underestimated.A born and proven winner,in contention for the clare job before.Drom broaford won munster senior with him.He will have clyda believing unlike teams before ,they are good enough to win.This is a great chance of a munster title.Miltown probably say the same.

Its a good blend of youth and expierence,and to loose three county finals and then win one,shows the heart,grit and battle hardened team they are.They are used to winning close gawes.

What they lacked in those finals was belief and compusure both on and of the field.English gave them that.A perfect fit,they are a marriage made in haven,as both the club and coach never believe their bigger than what they are,its the real ,we represent each other, the club,the people etc.English doesnt even claim expenses .He saw a lot of what he represents himself,no big name,no fancy dan,but the job gets done quitely and effectively.You will always get a hundred per cent effort wise,and their will be days ,even if they win munster,that they will fall short against one of the big boys up front,but that effort and hunger ensures they have more good than bad days as in munster with keel gone,Miltown are not unbeatable.

Their are Good footballer with mullane brothers,hanlon ,fitzgerald if fit ,kissane and carey ,their strong will relish this time of the year.kissane thrives now ,as he's stamina is second to none and hes energy and honesty was always top class.

Pace wise he wont be exposed at this time of the year,and he dominates at this level.

An interesting spice is he coaching clare next year.
The fact its a neutral venue,and the standard of cork football at club level would be better than clare,id expect clyda to win a close game.

It was mentioned that clare team beat st finbars a few years back.I wouldnt take much notice of that,st finbarrs are at hurling or football not . the force of old ,and that is due to their own neglect.

Their starting to turn things around which is good to see at last,the relegation battle in hurling was a wake up,name alone is useless unless you put the work in.

thinkstoomuch1 · 18-11-2013 2:06am

havent got a kalou wrote: »

How did that centre back play for Newtown??, he had some game over in blarney in the county final !

A great talent ,darragh guiney.Good hurler,left and right,a wise head on young shoulders,very down to earth.He was immense against Aghada that day.
Any time i saw him,he was good.Been involved with cork last year and again this year.

zetecescort · 18-11-2013 2:04pm

Posted on the Munster GAA website

St. Joseph’s Miltown Malbay (Clare) will play Clyda Rovers (Cork) in the AIB Munster GAA Football Intermediate Club Championship Final on Saturday November 23rd at 2:30pm in the Gaelic Grounds Limerick.

thinkstoomuch1 · 18-11-2013 6:35pm

Alan o conor retired with the football.

Great servant but the correct call.

thinkstoomuch1 · 18-11-2013 6:39pm

The fact cuthbhert named him in the 38 panel really begs ?why was he named.

Clearly he was never talked to.Not good management ,to name a panel without knowing if their availble.

Horse84 · 18-11-2013 7:29pm

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

The fact cuthbhert named him in the 38 panel really begs ?why was he named.

Clearly he was never talked to.Not good management ,to name a panel without knowing if their availble.

Are u going to criticise every single thing cuthbert does before a ball is even thrown in? He wouldn't have been my choice either but all he's really done is name an extended training panel, there'll be plenty of time to criticise him during the year I'm sure

thinkstoomuch1 · 18-11-2013 8:16pm

Horse84 wrote: »

Are u going to criticise every single thing cuthbert does before a ball is even thrown in? He wouldn't have been my choice either but all he's really done is name an extended training panel, there'll be plenty of time to criticise him during the year I'm sure

I get no joy in criticising anyone but i call it as i see it,im not going to be a hypercrite say all is great,then as soon as they loose start.
I have valid concerns.
I said cleary should of got the job,but cuthbhert had a skill set and if cleary didnt want it cuthhbhert was the only real alternative,but g huge part of hes terenue would be who he selected as a management tean.
I had thought we would have gene o driscooll,and had some expierence.My hope is it works but i have serious concerns of the inexpierence in this management with former great players their,bar the strength and conditiong guy,a great addition,we are unproven else where.

Also any management team checks with players availbiity prior to naming a panel,and with expecation already their that alan would retire surely he would have consulted him?
Thats a valid question surely.

Does he now add a player to the panel and call up deane or some one that he just overlooked and wasnt thought good enough a few days ago .

Also the player he included like eoin keane,kevin o driscoll,alan sheehan,andrew o sullivan,john mcloughlin etc,does not inspire me,when their is better players at club in cork.

Horse84 · 18-11-2013 8:27pm

Yes you've said that you have concerns over him, ad nauseam. Grand, we get it, most of us feel similarly I imagine.
Nobody is asking you to be a hypocrite. Where is the benefit in going through every single detail, most of the time repeating yourself on why he's a bad choice?
The guy has a job to do and all I'm saying is all he has done is pick some of his back room team and training panel. As I say there's plenty time to criticise him later on.
As regards Alan o'connor how do u know he didn't consult with him? Sure maybe the guy just had a change of heart or couldn't commit for personal reasons. I honestly don't know but how or why do u see the need to use this as a stick to beat cuthbert with?

thinkstoomuch1 · 18-11-2013 10:04pm

Horse84 wrote: »

Yes you've said that you have concerns over him, ad nauseam. Grand, we get it, most of us feel similarly I imagine.
Nobody is asking you to be a hypocrite. Where is the benefit in going through every single detail, most of the time repeating yourself on why he's a bad choice?
The guy has a job to do and all I'm saying is all he has done is pick some of his back room team and training panel. As I say there's plenty time to criticise him later on.
As regards Alan o'connor how do u know he didn't consult with him? Sure maybe the guy just had a change of heart or couldn't commit for personal reasons. I honestly don't know but how or why do u see the need to use this as a stick to beat cuthbert with?

Its not a case for beat him with a stick.That makes it seem personal.
Nothing personal ,just my view so far im concerned with the scence so far .

Sure this is a discussion forum,isnt it okay to give us a view.At least i made my views known,as a fan ,im entitled to give an opinion.
And your forgetting that the two most important things that shape a teams future are A, the management set up,and (b) the players.

He has picked the management and also picked the players.You say some of the backroom team.We know the main men,mccarthy,davis,sexton,o sullivan and the antrim strength and conditioning.Thats it,i don't think hes adding to that.

Yes the real judgment is on the ptich,but you can get indications from the players and personnael he picked, so far.

For example we were light on depth at midfield,with Aoc,now he is gone its lighter again.

Whats your view on the management set up?the training panel ,is their anything I'm missing or not seeing that gives us real positivity for next year.?id love for you to point out such things,cause believe me i want cuthbert to succeed,as i want cork to win an allireland,and shields,colm o neill,goulding,walsh etc to get which they deserve more than one all ireland.

You have not said your views?

kilmac14 · 18-11-2013 10:32pm

I agree with Horse84 that you cannot judge Cuthbert until the first ball is kicked. Im sure there are plenty of other players that he could have picked for his training squad but are currently involved with the colleges and there Sigerson teams.

As for the players you mention, dont know enough about Eoin Keane or John McLoughlin, but as for Alan Sheehan, Kevin O Driscoll and Andrew O Sullivan I feel that these players have the potential to be inter county players if given the right coaching and plus they might fit into whatever ideas Cuthbert may have regarding style and tactics.

Now Im all for giving players a chance and seeing if they can cut it at intercounty level but I think that its more important in getting a style of play that gets us results and gets us back to competing for All irelands. If that means going through as many players as possible to find the ones that fit his system best then so be it. Remember you have to break egs to make omelettes!!

Also I find it hard to think of any other players in the county that could make a difference for Cork in the intercounty scene. If you could point out these ''so called better players in the county'' than the ones he has in the squad at present then it would be appreciated

thinkstoomuch1 · 18-11-2013 11:21pm

I saw john mcloughlin last year in the league and he was exposed ,also against glanworth wed night he was taken to the cleaners by pierre o driscoll.
Eoin keane had an awful injury,and in 2010 It was felt he could make it hurling,but last year was out a lot.Never stood out in club games.

Andrew o sullian was around in 2007 and last year,made no impression.I would appreciate you give examples to prove me otherwise,games he stood out at intercounty?
Kieran o driscoll the same.

Sheehan has done what exactly?wasnt even mentioned for the club team of the year.

Michael o laoire was a superb u21 for cork,and really was pick of the bunch at junior last year.
He formed a superb midfield pairing with walsh at u21 and was superb against kerry in 20113 .Yes he may be light but eoin keane is hardly much bigger than him,and o laoire has oceans of football andrew o sullivan or keane dont have.

Rory sullivan a fine talent at u21 and junior,and only for injury would have played more.

Rory deane was a very good u21 and the only player to come out of the dublin game at u21 with any credit.Done well at junior ,and is strong and has the skills and done great with bantry.

Sean kiely of macroom done well in the league under counihan but didnt get picked,as counihan stuck with the tried and trusted.

Mark sugrue has stood out at minor and u21 is still u21 but surely he has more to offer than john hayes.

Hayes is a fine top top club player but has failed in really big games to do it for cork in the seven years he was their.Please tell me what he has added to hes game since to say he can do it.
Brillant skill i have no doubt,but surely its better going with players with potential than at 27 a guy who even under morgan coudnt impose himself.I saw him get three goals in an av b game in 2010 however i saw him fail in big games for cork also.
You have made a good point that he must look at as many players as possible,and i would have thought a panel of 45 or 50 would be better served ,as cork can train now as they have a new manager as long as none of the 2013 are involved.

Limerick have started likewise with john brudair.Cork could surely play them in a challenge and then cut the panel down to 38 etc.

You must look at a lot of players,however it musnt exceed the fiacso that 251 players ,yes 251,trialled out for the minor hurling in 2012.
The lions rubgy team wouldnt even match that.

corcaigh07 · 19-11-2013 2:40am

Going back to Alan O Connor, I got to agree with thinkstoomuch to a degree, Alan has been thinking for a while of his future with Cork, his season just gone with Cork was patchy, he wasn't making the team initially during the league and start of championship simply because he couldn't fully commit at the time. Why was he named on the December 8th panel only to retire soon after that announcement?

This guy has been busy of late, 2 infant kids, freshly built house that went up in a shot, a job to keep up and he is getting married in early January. I don't blame him too much for retiring, he's got enough going for him in life and has won a lot of honours as it is.

Horse84 · 19-11-2013 9:45am

But it's only a training panel that was announced. I assume and I'm giving cuthbert the benefit of the doubt here, that he knew he was losing a lot of experience in the squad and he wanted to give Alan every chance as he needed that experience, I don't see the issue here.
It's been stated that he wasn't sure himself and this morning it was reported that for personal reasons he couldn't commit to the season and one of the main reasons he said was the 6 hour round trip to cork for training. Fair enough if u ask me, and has been stated previously he has a lot of other commitments.
I just think too much has been read into it (see what I did there lol). If I'm wrong I'm wrong, just an opinion

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-11-2013 11:39am

I see where your coming from horse 84, and look, I geuinely are not one for adding 2 and 2 and getting 20.
I dont like false rumours,and remember i was very cautious when it emereged sheehan was training with the hurlers and certain to play against clare,that made the media headlines.

I also said seamus harnedy injury that he was a majior doubt for the final was again over dramtic just media spin.

Believe it or not im nt a dramatist and i have no doubt a lot my posts seem negative.But in fairness,its usally with the county bord, or bad management teams picked (i had said in advance that the hurlers at underage and the footballers from killarney were in dire trouble.

But i speak those views cause im a realist.I also stated the cork minors hurler,u21 football,and intermediate hurling have good management in place.

The junior footballers,i wont criticse as after last year super win,start brand new team.Im being realistic.

I speak postitve cause theirs a reason to.

Im sorry if that offends you:-o,i dont wisH to truthfully,but it is the oldage tiresome views of ah dont be too harsh on a manager,hes doing hes best,give him time,not hes fault,that just pisses me off to be frank ,as that is the problem in cork at the top table,their no set minium criteria of perferomanace that is in every job in ireland that must be met to justify your existence, and the failure to give real tough anayalis and not mickey mouse around it.If some thing is not right,i dont see why a spade can not be called a spade.

My main concern is Aoc had said today he was thinking of going for 8 months.Everbody had said even here that he was rumoured to go after st colums.

Slingerz said it,to be fair to him that he was gone,but Alan would say after the county final.

Aoc had this on hes mind for 8 months.Unlikely he made a decison, then changed the mind on a whimp.

It seems that people knew Aoc was going before Cuthbhert .Then cuthbhert names a 38 man panel?
Hes included.It is clear as daylight cuthbhert hadnt met with Aoc before the panel ,as if so why name him,and now put himself in the embarassing position of now picking a midfieler (a must as were so light with them ,as walsh playing hurling also)four days after initally deciding that player wasnt good enough.

Its not like a new addition that plays himself to the panel or an injury etc,its a case of picking a guy you overlooked ,within four days simply due to poor communiacation and proper planning ,(this was meant to be cuthbherts strongest quailty),that they couldnt of asked a man that doubts remained with hes availbity ,what hes intentions were before a panel was named.

Surley to god that nots much.Its presuming to assume,a bit like the board naming the cork management and ger cunnighanm their , and posters here got carried away ,thats a certainty hes staying put.

I blew that myth as rubbish ,as i said their was no offical statement from jbm or cunnigham to dismiss the rumours,so it was wrong to say he was staying.And it was proved,what embarrasment for them when he left.And everyone knew cunnigham was at an advanced stage in talks with limerick at the time.

And look at the end of the day i could be wrong with my opinions:-o and will admit if im wrong.

All im saying is i want cuthbhert to be corks best ever manager,but so far ,with whats happened it doesnt inspire great confidence .

And Horse,i would love to hear your views on the cork set up?panel selected.As a asked already,my reason is, i would love you to give me reasons to be postive for next year.

You gave your views on Aoc ,but havent said your views really on cuthbhert bar he wasnt your choice .Why wouldnt he of been?

halojohn · 19-11-2013 12:43pm

Right Iv read alot about the cork footballers and all the retirements and with the corks people republic of a cork a a closed shop with no1 new being able to comment, How come no1 has cum up with cuthbert being the problem ? in 73 days from counihan retiring to brian cuthbert (aka Muintur) being installed not 1 player retires but then 3 weeks after his appointment 6 retirements and 1 exile to Australia who had a chance to go under past management all go. Surely this is more then coincidence?? any opinions ?

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-11-2013 1:08pm

halojohn wrote: »

Right Iv read alot about the cork footballers and all the retirements and with the corks people republic of a cork a a closed shop with no1 new being able to comment, How come no1 has cum up with cuthbert being the problem ? in 73 days from counihan retiring to brian cuthbert (aka Muintur) being installed not 1 player retires but then 3 weeks after his appointment 6 retirements and 1 exile to Australia who had a chance to go under past management all go. Surely this is more then coincidence?? any opinions ?

I have made my opinions very clear the last few pages,so at the risk of being accused of repeating myself by others,i wont say them now,but i am far from convinced with this set up.

Horse84 · 19-11-2013 1:09pm

halojohn wrote: »

Right Iv read alot about the cork footballers and all the retirements and with the corks people republic of a cork a a closed shop with no1 new being able to comment, How come no1 has cum up with cuthbert being the problem ? in 73 days from counihan retiring to brian cuthbert (aka Muintur) being installed not 1 player retires but then 3 weeks after his appointment 6 retirements and 1 exile to Australia who had a chance to go under past management all go. Surely this is more then coincidence?? any opinions ?

Have u read any of the last few pages on this thread lol

?
There's been a spate of retirements yes but many would argue that they were needed and some should've prob went gradually over the past few years. With them all coming together, it's def set us back as the guys who will be filling their boots have had their development stunted under counihan.
Sheehan's loss to ozzie rules can't be laid at cuthbert's door to be fair.

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-11-2013 1:41pm

Horse84 wrote: »

Have u read any of the last few pages on this thread lol ?
There's been a spate of retirements yes but many would argue that they were needed and some should've prob went gradually over the past few years. With them all coming together, it's def set us back as the guys who will be filling their boots have had their development stunted under counihan.
Sheehan's loss to ozzie rules can't be laid at cuthbert's door to be fair.

Absoultey , sheehan leaving was for professional reasons.

And all the seven that retired went together ,and i had said shouldnt be picked.
The fact that they all retire do together ,raises the view cuthbhert is held in .

And i heard from well reliable scources the players werent singing from the rooftop with cuthbherts appointment.

The retirments bar sheehan won't set cork back at all bar sheehan ,in fact it will move cork forward if the right management were in place that picked the right young players to develop.But is that attuide that you share ,will buy cuthbhert at least a second term,4 years ,as the board like you will say retirments held us back.
Thats just nonenese.With good management we have a lot of young guys that could be developed and blended with loughrey,shields,cadogan,goulding etc.
This team isnt as young as the hurlers and unlike the hurlers most of the guys have underage success.Some hurlers dont even have munster medals at any grade.

But every excuse going will be made for cuthbhert if it goes pearshaped.

Cuthbhert has picked guys 24 or 25 that have done nothing to suggest their intercounty and at that age wont develop now.

Horse84 · 19-11-2013 2:06pm

What attitude do I share?? U ask what reasons do I have to be positive next year? None really I don't think they'll compete for an all Ireland but there is talent in the county thank god and I do believe that it's a steep learning curve for management and panel as a whole.
You're putting too much emphasis on a training panel and shouting for other players to be included, who's to say that they won't be in the future during the league and that?
All I'm saying is that it's way too early to be this critical, time enough for that later. What good does it do to forensically go through every little detail and make out that he is such a bad appointment? So u can come along after the first few bad results and be straight on here and say as usual " I said last November...." and "I told u so" to what end? I don't get it.
Do u honestly think that "my attitude" contributes one iota to cuthbert being given a second term? I mean seriously?? The county board listen to no one not to mind people like me who u seem to think have this acceptance of cork not being competitive.
All this even before a ball thrown in is just ridiculous. He's appointed now for good or ill and especially for the young players this negativity and constant bitching at this stage of the year isn't helpful in any way. Does that mean we have to put up or shut up? No, if he does turn out to be useless then grand he's fair game as far as I'm concerned

keane2097 · 19-11-2013 2:08pm

O'Connor probably hadn't made up his mind by the time the training panel was named, mountains and molehills here IMO.

Archer3083 · 19-11-2013 2:13pm

Of all the retirements, I'm very disappointed to see Alan O' Connor retiring. He's only 28. He still has something to contribute to the Cork set up. I couldn't see O'Connor starting big games next year but he might have been an impact player. He did very well against Kerry in the Munster final when he came on at half time. I think he's retired because of personal commitments and I also think that Cuthbert would have let him know what role he expected from him in the coming year. I think Cuthbert told the retiring players they weren't in his long term plans and would be unlikely to start big games next year. Afterall, let's be honest without insulting any of the players. Cork wasn't good enough in 2013 and 2012 with these players, they certainly weren't going to improve in 2014. However, it would have been better if these retirements were phased out. Counihan should have began that process sooner. Cuthbert is presented as the baddie now because he has to do it.

I'd also like to make the point that the players that have retired are all Counihan's players. He either gave them their start like O'Connor and Kissane or they were players that were perfect for his slow, handpassing and running game. I think Cuthbert will be implementing a new style next year and I think he prefers other players to execute his style. I think Cuthbert is going for players that are highly mobile, light on their feet, nimble but who can also hold their own. I think he'll also favour a more mobile midfield rather than a big strong fetcher like O'Connor who has just retired. It's all part of the evolution of the game now. Cian O'Sullivan and MD McCauley are a very mobile midfield for Dublin, so are Buckley and Maher for Kerry. O'Connor simply couldn't keep with their pace.

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-11-2013 3:50pm

Horse84 wrote: »

What attitude do I share?? U ask what reasons do I have to be positive next year? None really I don't think they'll compete for an all Ireland but there is talent in the county thank god and I do believe that it's a steep learning curve for management and panel as a whole.
You're putting too much emphasis on a training panel and shouting for other players to be included, who's to say that they won't be in the future during the league and that?
All I'm saying is that it's way too early to be this critical, time enough for that later. What good does it do to forensically go through every little detail and make out that he is such a bad appointment? So u can come along after the first few bad results and be straight on here and say as usual " I said last November...." and "I told u so" to what end? I don't get it.
Do u honestly think that "my attitude" contributes one iota to cuthbert being given a second term? I mean seriously?? The county board listen to no one not to mind people like me who u seem to think have this acceptance of cork not being competitive.
All this even before a ball thrown in is just ridiculous. He's appointed now for good or ill and especially for the young players this negativity and constant bitching at this stage of the year isn't helpful in any way. Does that mean we have to put up or shut up? No, if he does turn out to be useless then grand he's fair game as far as I'm concerned

It looks like we both dont have any great confidence in the set up,we have different views on how and when to portray them.

Fair enough you want to hold back and go along with a belief theies hope, thats your choice .But i don't sit on the fence,i call it straight .I am not going to say i think great of the set up and based on the last two weeks say a lot of confidence, is well based just for the sake of it.

And this isnt btichness.Go to a kerry thread or kilkenny thread and they and rightfully so dont hold back,and they have much more to be positive than us,they set the standard,don't accept failure as normal and an acceptance.I certainly don't when their is so much ,potential with cork football.

And the panel of 38 now 37 was picked.He wont deviate much from that.That panel a clear statement can be got how he intends to play and hes judgement on players.Based on that panel with some notable additions as well as asbantees it doesnt bode well for the season ahead.

Horse84 · 19-11-2013 4:04pm

Whoever accused u of sitting on the fence? I'm not either I've already stated that I thought Cleary was a better option.
All I'm merely saying is that I don't see the point in repeating the point over and over and over again about why he's wrong. Once is enough to say a thing.
Let the Kerry and Kilkenny fellas look after themselves I'm not one bit interested in what goes on in their thread. what I am interested in is Cork success and I don't believe castigating a team before a ball is thrown in is helpful, that's all.

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-11-2013 4:13pm

Archer3083 wrote: »

Of all the retirements, I'm very disappointed to see Alan O' Connor retiring. He's only 28. He still has something to contribute to the Cork set up. I couldn't see O'Connor starting big games next year but he might have been an impact player. He did very well against Kerry in the Munster final when he came on at half time. I think he's retired because of personal commitments and I also think that Cuthbert would have let him know what role he expected from him in the coming year. I think Cuthbert told the retiring players they weren't in his long term plans and would be unlikely to start big games next year. Afterall, let's be honest without insulting any of the players. Cork wasn't good enough in 2013 and 2012 with these players, they certainly weren't going to improve in 2014. However, it would have been better if these retirements were phased out. Counihan should have began that process sooner. Cuthbert is presented as the baddie now because he has to do it.

I'd also like to make the point that the players that have retired are all Counihan's players. He either gave them their start like O'Connor and Kissane or they were players that were perfect for his slow, handpassing and running game. I think Cuthbert will be implementing a new style next year and I think he prefers other players to execute his style. I think Cuthbert is going for players that are highly mobile, light on their feet, nimble but who can also hold their own. I think he'll also favour a more mobile midfield rather than a big strong fetcher like O'Connor who has just retired. It's all part of the evolution of the game now. Cian O'Sullivan and MD McCauley are a very mobile midfield for Dublin, so are Buckley and Maher for Kerry. O'Connor simply couldn't keep with their pace.

All the retirtments had to go,like you said.
The problem is the miscommunication with Aoc,were now down to 37.
The poins you raise about nimble,fast players,i salute those words of wisdom myself,totally want cork to win with footballers than 6'7 lads that couldnt kick snow of a rope.

It begs the question though why was andrew o sullivan,around two different panels now still there.He is more muscle and brawn,not nimble footed like michael o laoire,yes light,but jesus can he play.Some footballer.

Kevin canty,Eoin keane are hardly gifted.John mcloughlin is poor ,good at junior but even exposed their for cork.

It begs the question ,hes school of thought the way he wants to play the game is not matched by the personnael he picked to train.

slingerz · 19-11-2013 4:49pm

halojohn wrote: »

Right Iv read alot about the cork footballers and all the retirements and with the corks people republic of a cork a a closed shop with no1 new being able to comment, How come no1 has cum up with cuthbert being the problem ? in 73 days from counihan retiring to brian cuthbert (aka Muintur) being installed not 1 player retires but then 3 weeks after his appointment 6 retirements and 1 exile to Australia who had a chance to go under past management all go. Surely this is more then coincidence?? any opinions ?

Ciaran Sheehan received notice of intention from Australia late in the day and had the Intermediate County Final to prepare for. If he came out then with the news it may have upset his clubs prep for the final

Paudie Kissane had the Premier Intermediate football County Final to prepare for and wanted focus on that rather than his retirement and Alan O'Connor similarly had the Junior Football county final to prepare for and didnt want to rock their preparations with news about his retirement

Noel O'Leary had his mind made up to retire at the end of this season as he is getting married in the next month. He chose to wait until the new manager was in place so that he could inform them of his decision himself. Same goes for Pearse O'Neill, Graham Canty and Alan Quirke who had chosen to retire prior to Cuthbert's appointment but all of these announcements have to be staggered to the media to give each their deserved moments.

Now it is not beyond the realms of possibility that if a JBM type figure took over the footballers that they may have stayed for 1 more season and it is also possible that Cuthbert felt that the time was right to cut them adrift as well. We can only speculate on that point but we will never know for certain.

With the exception of Ciaran Sheehan, these players were on a downward curve in their careers with Quirke, O'Neill, Kissane, O'Leary and Canty all the wrong side of 30. Alan O'Connor may have another year under 30 however he was shown up for pace this season as well as having family commitments to consider.

All of these things are plausible alternatives to the hysteria that they retired due to Cuthbert's appointment. I am not saying that Cuthbert will be a good or bad appointment but to write him off before a ball is kicked is premature.

He had a difficult task ahead of him made even more daunting with the retirements. But the retirements bring opportunities for others. There will be players involved initially who wont quite cut the mustard at that level but unless you break some eggs you'll never make an omelette

corcaigh07 · 19-11-2013 5:57pm

Good post Slingerz.

Counihan definitely should have started phasing a few fellas out sooner but I still think that the players that have gone could still contribute off the bench or definitely in Sheehan's case, starting.

I reckon we wouldn't have as many retiring with Denis Cleary appointed.

Midfield is looking very light now, Alan gone, Pearce gone and even Canty played there a fair bit last season.

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