Gay Rugby- A step forward or a step backward

Doc wrote: »

What my team-mate / opposition dose sexually off the pitch is of no concern to me as long as he acts appropriately towards me.

But off the pitch activities are a huge part of being in a club. The preferred social scene of a lot of gay people is different to that of straight people. So they either socialise with the other players in places they don't really go for. Or else they pursue their own interests away from the rest of the lads and become a bit marginalised because they hardly ever go out with the team.

If you forget the fact that it's sexuality we're talking about and pretend it's nationality. Would it be such a big deal if a club advertised themselves as "Polish friendly"? They don't discriminate and will let non-Polish people join but clearly the social side of things will be more to a Polish person's liking than other clubs.

Or something even more benign like a "heavy metal friendly" rugby team. Sure anyone can join but the odds are the nights out aren't going to be in some poptastic club.

javaboy wrote: »

But that's just it, there is no equality issue. People aren't complaining that the existing rugby clubs are illegally discriminating. It's just natural that the social side of a mostly straight team will be geared towards straight men.

Nobody's saying they're breaking the law and going to the equality commission would be overkill. It's just that the one gay guy in a squad of 30 will feel like a sap expecting the other lads to hit the George now and then.

Sorry, but it is. Like it or not, it is a form of segregation based on sexuality. You can say whatever you like, it doesn't change that fact.

javaboy wrote: »

Think of it like an Irish bar in Spain. Are they discriminatory? No. Are they racist or exclusive? No. It's just a convenient place an English guy on holidays can go where he's more likely to meet up with other English guys and where the music, bar food, television etc. are more likely to be to his liking.

There have been debates already on these types of venues being segregationist.


I think some of you are so caught up in being PC you are truly oblivious to the fact that attaining equality for gay/lesbian members of society cannot be achieved by perpetrating stereo-typical segregationist behaviour in an effort to 'enhance the social aspects' of normal life.

Equality in society means integration, not separation. The sooner some of you PC-friendly bleeding hearts association members realise that, the better.

jill_valentine wrote: »

It might be if straight people were barred from the team, but, as seem to vaguely recall mentioning, that's not the case.

you don't have to bar someone to make it inadvertently segregationist - implied is enough to make it so.

Why is this such a difficult fundamental to grasp for some people, or does everyone like skating up-hill?

DubArk wrote: »

Here gay people have all their rights!!!!!!



Here they are attaining equality for gays??

Which is it ven0m?

As a member of the PC-friendly bleeding hearts association and you being all knowing of exactly what rights gay people have or have not please infom us?

Handsome cake hit the nail on the head for me.


I am not all knowing, never once said I was - so less of the sarcasm, it's the lowest form of wit.

Go back to whatever you were doing before you decided to troll, & put on your 'love-me-love-the-world-love-even-an-emo' badge. Honestly, here's e thinking society had come far & finally gay & lesbian people (even labeling them by their sexuality I think is wrong - they're just people like all the rest of us) should be unafraid, unashamed & not require labeling, or labeling into groups, or find themselves needing to form 'friendly' groups.

Should just be a 'friendly' rugby club - why a need for 'gay friendly'?

ven0m wrote: »

Sorry, but it is. Like it or not, it is a form of segregation based on sexuality. You can say whatever you like, it doesn't change that fact.

It's not segregation because they don't stop straight people joining.

There have been debates already on these types of venues being segregationist.

Yeah and I was one of the people involved in one of the debates on it recently. My stance was that it's probably pretty annoying to be a gay guy trying to meet another gay guy only to find every second guy in the George is straight. Just like if you go to an Irish bar in Spain and most people in it are Spanish, you might feel a bit annoyed. I don't think it should be a rule or a law or anything though when it comes to those kind of venues. Just more of a general suggestion that it would be nice if people respected. But they don't have to.
The thing with the rugby club is slightly different because people generally aren't there to find a partner. They're there to play rugby and not feel excluded on the basis of their sexuality. So no gay guy is really going to feel aggrieved that his gay-friendly rugby club has loads of straight guys in it. As long as the straight guys are themselves gay friendly, there's no issue.

I think some of you are so caught up in being PC you are truly oblivious to the fact that attaining equality for gay/lesbian members of society cannot be achieved by perpetrating stereo-typical segregationist behaviour in an effort to 'enhance the social aspects' of normal life.

Actually if I was being really PC about this I would say as you do that gay friendly label is segregationist. Instead I'm being practical about it and saying that if a certain category of person finds themselves marginalised at most clubs, then there's nothing wrong with a club being set up that explicitly aims to integrate them. Some people just want to play rugby now in an environment where they don't feel left out and can't wait around for equality to reach every corner of society naturally.

quality in society means integration, not separation. The sooner some of you PC-friendly bleeding hearts association members realise that, the better.

Like I said, you also have to be practical about these things. If 10% of the population are gay, then a squad of 30 rugby players will have only 3 gay people on average. They might feel left out at times, they might not. If they do, what's wrong with there being a gay-friendly rugby club where they are guaranteed not to feel left out based on their sexuality?

You can look on that as segregation if you want but imo that line of thinking is a bit PC bleedin' heart itself. Are gay bars segregationist? Are Polish bars segregationist? Are Irish bars segregationist? Or are they all just places where people with common interests/traits can conveniently find people with similar interests/traits?

jill_valentine wrote: »

It might be if straight people were barred from the team, but, as seem to vaguely recall mentioning, that's not the case.

Did you mention that? I didn't notice.

ven0m wrote: »

Handsome cake hit the nail on the head for me.


I am not all knowing, never once said I was - so less of the sarcasm, it's the lowest form of wit.

Go back to whatever you were doing before you decided to troll, & put on your 'love-me-love-the-world-love-even-an-emo' badge. Honestly, here's e thinking society had come far & finally gay & lesbian people (even labeling them by their sexuality I think is wrong - they're just people like all the rest of us) should be unafraid, unashamed & not require labeling, or labeling into groups, or find themselves needing to form 'friendly' groups.

Should just be a 'friendly' rugby club - why a need for 'gay friendly'?

Your as clear as mud again.... oops lowest form of wit!!

Im no troll, I have been in this debate from the onset, so drop your get out clause.

Sticks and stones.........:rolleyes:

Reflector wrote: »

People have to understand that it is difficult to be a gay guy on a team of predominantly straight people. I could play rugby for any team and I'd probably really enjoy it but the fact would remain that any time it came to socialising I would feel a little out of place. It wouldn't be as big a deal as maybe 10 years ago but we still have a long way to go.
For gay people although most are very accepting it is still very difficult. when you introduce someone as your boyfriend and you are always greeted with this bemused look or a laugh as if you had just made a joke. I think that from everyone of my straight friends there is only about 2 or 3 that I really feel totally at ease with as in their own minds they dont view me or my relationship any different. It's a long way from having the **** kicked out of you but it's still there and until it is 100% accepted by society there will always be a need for gay bars, clubs, cafes, hangouts.

Well I completely understand where you’re coming from. I have said this on another thread so I do apologise for repeating myself but I do think this applies here.

I come from a small rural area, as far as everyone knows everyone; that sort of a town. I've being out for quite some time and no one gives me a hard time. My game was rugby, since I was knee to a grass hopper I lived and breathe the game.


Someone has to be the first, and then things get better. I was more or less the first in my town to be so open, im not a screaming queen, so I just told people and as sure as eggs or eggs, it got around like wild fire.

Yes the odd remarks have been made from people who have a jar on them; I pay little or no attention to them and if they persisted, usually someone would go over to them, have a quiet word and well, things just settled.

It's was very important that I got support from those around me.
Really I’m only gay not a mass murder. I like to think I have a good bunch of mates around me and that’s very important to me. I don’t want to have to live in some sort of a gay community, I want to live near all my mates and family and socialise with them too.

Sure I slag the F*** out of my mates and yes they do the same but only in jest.

I work in manly a male workforce and again I am out to all my work colleagues and I am in a very long relationship; all that know me know that.

So im in a very confident position, one I earned by being the first to come out, one I have due to being in a relationship and being very good at my job.

NOT all gay people are so strong or lucky in life. I could of only dreamt of a local club advertising that it was “gay friendly” when I played first as the sheer torment I went through was so difficult to start with.

I don’t believe that tokenism works but this is not tokenism, this is just a statement, a statement that makes things a little easier for young men and women to fulfil there dreams of playing for a team of their choice.

As I said earlier I was one of the first to come out and I expect that with my example and the help of statements LIKE GAY FRIENDLY TEAMS that things will improve and down the road the statement will not be necessary cause it’ll be a given.

But at this stage in Ireland I feel it is necessary to spell it out.



Last word on the subject from me, Im tired of listening to me too.

Over and out!!!