Abolish Seanad

View · 05-10-2013 2:12pm

Lisa2011 wrote: »

I too dont like the fact that priority is given to English either but I voted no to both. I want us to elect the senators not Enda. If its abolished in time people will be complaining that they should have voted no. It will be their own fault.

You think so?

Suppose for the sake of argument we abolished the Seanad 20 years ago. Who would today vote for its re-introduction in its current form? How many would vote to re-introduce it in any form? And, if so, which form would we want it to have?

Banjo String · 05-10-2013 2:17pm

NiallSparky wrote: »

You can throw in his comment too about how he won't bother reforming the Seanad, regardless of whether a no vote passes.

I think he will have to now.

I look forward to seeing his not so smug head on the tv now, telling us we're dopes for not swallowing his lies.

View · 05-10-2013 2:17pm

NiallSparky wrote: »

You can throw in his comment too about how he won't bother reforming the Seanad, regardless of whether a no vote passes.

The people voted against reform it seems. Therefore that's what they'll get.

Remember as soon as you put a specific reform idea on the table it is unlikely to survive as a) a lot of people don't want a Seanad, and, b) those that do will split as soon as the specific proposal is made - e.g. A "Chamber of the Regions" to counter-balance Dublin? Oops, Dublin hates it and the surrounding region rows in behind it...

Sierra Oscar · 05-10-2013 2:22pm

A spectacular defeat for the government, and a major embarrassment to the Sinn Féin leadership who decided to go against the opinion of their grassroots - showing that they will sell themselves out and enter government with FG when the time comes.

Fianna Fáil got this one right - anyone who is any bit connect to their local communities and those around them would know that reform is what people want, not some token gestures that feign reform.

Mr Cumulonimbus · 05-10-2013 2:24pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

OK, you just ignored it. Fair enough.

Excuse me?

Mr.Micro · 05-10-2013 2:25pm

With such a pathetic turnout, if the NO vote is carried it will be against the opinion polls that suggested the YES was comfortably going to win. So no point in people moaning then, if the Seanad is kept, with all its faults and corpulent members.

tayto lover · 05-10-2013 2:26pm

H.J Simpson wrote: »

I can't believe how dumb you paddies are, you had the chance of a lifetime to abolish the waste of space seanad eireann but instead you voted to keep it, just the way it is. Is it the fluoride in the tap water that has made you paddies so dumb ?

We were never going to gain from abolishing the Seanad anyway.
The money saved would have been diverted into the Dail for another bunch of idiots to waste.

Seaneh · 05-10-2013 2:33pm

View wrote: »

The people voted against reform it seems.

Well, that's plain nonsense.
The people weren't offered reform or non-reform.

Seaneh · 05-10-2013 2:36pm

H.J Simpson wrote: »

I can't believe how dumb you paddies are, you had the chance of a lifetime to abolish the waste of space seanad eireann but instead you voted to keep it, just the way it is. Is it the fluoride in the tap water that has made you paddies so dumb ?

Could be worse, we could live in a state that still has a monarchy.

Do you lot still have wizards and dragons as well?
What about faeries and witches?

Sierra Oscar · 05-10-2013 2:40pm

View wrote: »

The people voted against reform it seems.

Well that's not what the government seems to think. Michael Ring has just conceded defeat and stated that it is clear people are demanding Seanad reform, and that is what now must be done.

Why the government didn't realise that before now is beyond me.

Busted Flat. · 05-10-2013 2:44pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Well that's not what the government seems to think. Michael Ring has just conceded defeat and stated that it is clear people are demanding Seanad reform, and that is what now must be done.

Why the government didn't realise that before now is beyond me.

Arrogance, plain and simple, from taking office on day one.

My name is URL · 05-10-2013 2:44pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

A spectacular defeat for the government, and a major embarrassment to the Sinn Féin leadership who decided to go against the opinion of their grassroots - showing that they will sell themselves out and enter government with FG when the time comes.

Fianna Fáil got this one right - anyone who is any bit connect to their local communities and those around them would know that reform is what people want, not some token gestures that feign reform.

SF have been calling for the Seanad to be abolished for years though. I don't think they just tacked their support to the no side as a populist move.

Anyway, I really don't think that people for the most part voted along party lines in this referendum. It's not a victory for FF despite what they seem to think.

Banjo String · 05-10-2013 2:51pm

Senator calls on Kenny to resign over his €20m fcuk up.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/senator-calls-on-taoiseach-to-resign-over-20m-ego-trip-1.1551731

Harry Angstrom · 05-10-2013 2:58pm

Daragh O'Brien made an interesting suggestion on the radio an hour ago. He suggested that, as well as carrying out major reform, the Seanad elections should be held on the same day as a general election, which would stop those who lose their Dail seats from getting a consolation prize in the Seanad. A bit ironic, seeing as he himself took a Seanad seat after losing his Dail seat in 2007. Not much chance of it happening though.

tayto lover · 05-10-2013 3:00pm

Banjo String wrote: »

Senator calls on Kenny to resign over his €20m fcuk up.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/senator-calls-on-taoiseach-to-resign-over-20m-ego-trip-1.1551731

So arrogant he wouldn't even debate his own proposal.

seamus · 05-10-2013 3:01pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Daragh O'Brien made an interesting suggestion on the radio an hour ago. He suggested that, as well as carrying out major reform, the Seanad elections should be held on the same day as a general election, which would stop those who lose their Dail seats from getting a consolation prize in the Seanad. A bit ironic, seeing as he himself took a Seanad seat after losing his Dail seat in 2007. Not much chance of it happening though.

Presuming this fails, apparently a TD or Senator (I forget who) has a substantial Seanad reform bill which he is going to put to the Dáil on Monday. Part of that bill includes this holding of both elections on the same day and preventing people from running in both ballots. Which sounds ridiculously reasonable, so it will probably be ignored.

aloyisious · 05-10-2013 3:09pm

Maybe I'm being cynical and non-trusting (or think they are) but I got to thinking last night that the "abolitionists" and the "non-abolitionists" in Leinster House got all-cunning and put out ideas they knew joe soap would reject, so's they could (Pontius-like) wash their hands and say to us "well, YIOU decided"' Enda could also say (if there was a "yes" to abolish) "I got it right".

Personally, I feel the only way Joe Soap could have won would have been to leave the "abolish" ballot papers 100% blank, though I'm not sure how that result would be declared by the adjudicator: rejection or void.

CiaranIRL · 05-10-2013 3:12pm

The figures speak for themselves -

The turnout currently is 38.5%. It has to be assumed that the other 61.5% couldn't be bothered to vote OR are happy with the current set-up.

The YES vote running at 49% (or 18.9% of the electorate)
The NO vote is running at 51% (or 19.6% of the electorate)

So, over 81% of the electorate don't want any change and are happy with the current arrangement. Remember, the option for reform wasn't on the table.

Gawd help us... The majority of my fellow Dub are muppets..

spank_inferno · 05-10-2013 3:17pm

80% to retain the status quo.

It wont be for another generation at least to get the question again.

Mabey then at least 1/4 of us would like to see some change.

Sir Oxman · 05-10-2013 3:17pm

My name is URL wrote: »

SF have been calling for the Seanad to be abolished for years though. I don't think they just tacked their support to the no side as a populist move.

Anyway, I really don't think that people for the most part voted along party lines in this referendum. It's not a victory for FF despite what they seem to think.

IMO, that is certain.

Manach · 05-10-2013 3:19pm

I had thought a fundamental attribute of tables is the ability to be set easily. The No vote rejects the consolidation of power into the fused execute/legislative branch and also shows non-Party actors that came out to campaign for a meaningful change instead the government's change for Enda's sake change.

Pete_Cavan · 05-10-2013 3:22pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

For the life of me, I can't understand why FG tolerate this idiot as Taoiseach. They had their chance to get rid of him before the last election and they blew it. His retort to Micheal Martin that he wouldn't want to embarrass him if they had a televised Seanad debate was the sort of thing you'd hear in a school playground amongst a bunch of 8 year olds.

I am not a fan of Enda but I am glad he rejected Martins invitation to drag a vote on changing our Constitution down to a stupid populatity contest for his own benefit. Anyone who determines how to vote on any issue which will have far reaching consequences to our country for a long time to come based on one indiviual politician needs their head examined. Any change made on this issue is likely to remain for a very long time (likely over 100 years) yet Enda may not be Taoiseach after the next General Election. People should vote for changes to the Constitution based on the merits of the proposed change as the change will outlast any of todays politicians. I think it is very disrespectful to allow a referendum to be hijacked for political point scoring and very short sighted to vote based on personal opinions of individuals.

seamus · 05-10-2013 3:22pm

aloyisious wrote: »

Maybe I'm being cynical and non-trusting (or think they are) but I got to thinking last night that the "abolitionists" and the "non-abolitionists" in Leinster House got all-cunning and put out ideas they knew joe soap would reject, so's they could (Pontius-like) wash their hands and say to us "well, YIOU decided"' Enda could also say (if there was a "yes" to abolish) "I got it right".

Oh no doubt. Enda doesn't really care what way this goes. Part of his election platform was a promise for Dail and Seanad reform. Win or lose this referendum, he can say, "I tried".

Sir Oxman · 05-10-2013 3:24pm

CiaranIRL wrote: »

The figures speak for themselves -

The turnout currently is 38.5%. It has to be assumed that the other 61.5% couldn't be bothered to vote OR are happy with the current set-up.

The YES vote running at 49% (or 18.9% of the electorate)
The NO vote is running at 51% (or 19.6% of the electorate)

So, over 81% of the electorate don't want any change and are happy with the current arrangement. Remember, the option for reform wasn't on the table.

Gawd help us... The majority of my fellow Dub are muppets..

You see, I think the exact opposite.
Thankfully, Dublin and most of Leinster + very few other areas outside the East did not fall for this 'anything but reform' codswallop thrown to the public to enable Kenny say for once he was right - well, even on this seeming shoe-in our useless so-called leader failed.

tayto lover · 05-10-2013 3:25pm

seamus wrote: »

Oh no doubt. Enda doesn't really care what way this goes. Part of his election platform was a promise for Dail and Seanad reform. Win or lose this referendum, he can say, "I tried".

How do you equate abolition with reform?

BlutendeRabe · 05-10-2013 3:26pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

A spectacular defeat for the government, and a major embarrassment to the Sinn Féin leadership who decided to go against the opinion of their grassroots - showing that they will sell themselves out and enter government with FG when the time comes.

Pearse Doherty was one of the main people within the party arguing for abolition. Initially they had opposed the bill as it was being read in the Dail, stating that it should be decided by the constitutional convention.

I don't think there'll be much blowback in terms of support for the party. Low turnout and its common enough for people not to vote according to party lines in referenda.

I voted no but one side effect is that we'll have to put up with more of that irritating git McDowell.

Sir Oxman · 05-10-2013 3:34pm

Dublin Central - I'm thrilled by that result, 57.9% No

seamus · 05-10-2013 3:34pm

tayto lover wrote: »

How do you equate abolition with reform?

That's just me paraphrasing, to be fair. The actual wording of the manifesto was;

Fine Gael will cut the size of the Oireachtas by one-third by abolishing the Seanad, if the public approve in constitutional referendum

So it's a specific promise they have delivered whether or not the thing passes.

tayto lover · 05-10-2013 3:36pm

seamus wrote: »

That's just me paraphrasing, to be fair. The actual wording of the manifesto was;
So it's a specific promise they have delivered whether or not the thing passes.

Maybe he could save his embarrassment by now cutting the Dail by 33%.

Mr.Micro · 05-10-2013 3:37pm

CiaranIRL wrote: »

So, over 81% of the electorate don't want any change and are happy with the current arrangement. Remember, the option for reform wasn't on the table.

Gawd help us... The majority of my fellow Dub are muppets..

All the yes crowd left it to others to vote, believing it in the bag. The no crowd got off their a**es and voted. That's the difference here.

Abolish Seanad

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