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*Everything HPAT and Medicine 2015*
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I don't understand why so many posters on here are dwelling on abolishing the Hpat. Its something we as aspiring med students must do, talking about how we should get rid of it is only wasting our time (until it actually is gotten rid of!). This year was my second time repeating the hpat, I found it a lot worse than last year but hoping nonetheless for that CAO offer come august!
I know HPAT can seem unfair for people who can't afford prep courses. Last year I couldn't afford ME and so just did it without prep, I just focused on how I was doing it on my own and being honest I was jealous of others who had the benefit of doing the prep course. Getting an average score last June just made me realise that its the only course that I actually want to do, so I just worked and saved all summer to pay for the prep course this year. I may have been at a disadvantage last year without the prep course but without the HPAT I wouldn't have a hope of getting med with an LC result of 565 :P so for now Im grateful its in place. 0 -
I don't understand why so many posters on here are dwelling on abolishing the Hpat. Its something we as aspiring med students must do, talking about how we should get rid of it is only wasting our time (until it actually is gotten rid of!). This year was my second time repeating the hpat, I found it a lot worse than last year but hoping nonetheless for that CAO offer come august! I know HPAT can seem unfair for people who can't afford prep courses. Last year I couldn't afford ME and so just did it without prep, I just focused on how I was doing it on my own and being honest I was jealous of others who had the benefit of doing the prep course. Getting an average score last June just made me realise that its the only course that I actually want to do, so I just worked and saved all summer to pay for the prep course this year. I may have been at a disadvantage last year without the prep course but without the HPAT I wouldn't have a hope of getting med with an LC result of 565 :P so for now Im grateful its in place.
Totally agree! It's gives everyone a chance and takes the pressure off a perfect LC!0 -
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I actually have UCD down merely as a formality. Not particularly interested in going there (not that I'd turn a place down). It's a huge uni + mandatory 6 years + every other med representative at Higher Options told me why they were better than UCD + the representative from UCD was really unhelpful and unfriendly.
Everyone seems to look down to RCSI? I guess because it's just a college. I have a lovely chat with the people from there and I liked the community vibe they had going on.
To each their own. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Just a warning, if you go to RCSI you'll have 350+ people in your year. A lot bigger than UCD, so I don't think size is too applicable.
I've spent a year in UCD and almost a year in RCSI. From a personal stand point, I much prefer UCD. I'd go straight into the 5 year for UCD so I suppose that factor doesn't apply to me (but premed is honestly meant to be one of the most fun years of college, ever).
I'm more so looking from a societies and extra curricular stand point. RSCI is very limited from that perspective, societies don't meet up on a regular basis. The way I've been taught hasn't been largely different from UCD tbh and once you have your medical degree, where it comes from won't matter too much. But exactly as you said, to each their own.
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dalta5billion wrote: »What would be a satisfactory way in which to ensure fairness for all candidates given the "5 minute" incident? Should a CAO Med Applicants Union be set up to raise the issue directly with the HEA and the Department of Education?
At a minimum IMO, reviewing of scripts should be facilitated, and a full marking scheme should be published (the fact that this is not the case already is testament to the opaque nature of the exam). I would want the Department of Education to oversee a speedy investigation into how the exam was run this year, with a view to completing a later review of the HPAT as a whole.
If you're affected, you need to start the complaints procedure now. Email ACER, making clear that this is a formal complaint (I believe this has to be completed within 7 days of the exam). The issue can almost certainly be escalated to the Ombudsman (and indeed the Children's Ombudsman if you're <18), as the HEA falls under its remit, despite the fact that the HPAT is run by a private company. Making your initial complaint now is vital.
Is there any appetite for setting up such a union? All I see on this thread is this exam turning people against each other, and it's really distressing.
Although i fully encourage everyone who was affected to complain, i don't think a union is viable or feasible. About 200 people were affected and i'd be surprised if more than ten use boards. 200 would be a formidable lobby group but it'll only be possible to get in contact with a small fraction of those actually in the centre, unfortunately!
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Doctorhopeful wrote: »Although i fully encourage everyone who was affected to complain, i don't think a union is viable or feasible. About 200 people were affected and i'd be surprised if more than ten use boards. 200 would be a formidable lobby group but it'll only be possible to get in contact with a small fraction of those actually in the centre, unfortunately!
Everyone who took the exam this year will be affected if scores are changed to account for the "5 minute" candidates. Therefore the integrity of the HPAT as a deciding factor for medicine admissions is completely compromised.
ACER is a private entity, which is most certainly going to cover its own ass (hence the secrecy of marking schemes). Student's need someone to represent their interests.
Facebook would be the best way to contact as many people as possible. Obviously the union would not represent everyone but would at least be able to interact with the media and to be big enough to make a level-headed and professional demand for clarity on this issue.0 -
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Gallagher1 wrote: »Just curious, if everything went to plan, what would your desired outcome be of all this?
The exam was run perfectly this year imo apart from one invigilator making a stupid, stupid mistake? Only complaint I have is that they spent ages(forever) counting out the scripts beforehand and everyone seemed to be getting irritable, but when you take into account that every paper has to be accounted for, it seems to be a trivial complaint. This '5 minute' mistake happens in the LC too somewhere every year? Just because it happened in the HPAT (I know it is such a high stakes exam and therefore anger levels are through the roof..) doesn't mean a full report should be done into the exam, calling into question it's purpose and existence. I know you feel outraged (and rightly so!) but the invigilator is at fault;not ACER nor the concept of the HPAT exam itself. It was just horrifically cruel bad luck...
A) The union would firstly demand clarity on how marks will be adjusted. The Leaving Cert is transparent in that scripts can be viewed, and the marking scheme is published. A defined appeals process exists. All that HPAT candidates will get is a score, with no indication of how it was calculated. The union would demand for a marking scheme to be published and a facility to view scripts to be made available.
The union would acknowledge that differing views on the merits of the HPAT as a whole exist among students and indeed among medical educators and practitioners. Therefore the union would call for a review of the HPAT by an independent party (a review which should, among other things, analyse the impact of this particular incident on all students who took the HPAT). All relevant parties with interests in the HPAT should be consulted, including students. The union would not take a stance on the abolishing/not abolishing argument, unless mandated to do so by a vote. 0 -
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dalta5billion wrote: »A) The union would firstly demand clarity on how marks will be adjusted. The Leaving Cert is transparent in that scripts can be viewed, and the marking scheme is published. A defined appeals process exists. All that HPAT candidates will get is a score, with no indication of how it was calculated. The union would demand for a marking scheme to be published and a facility to view scripts to be made available. The union would acknowledge that differing views on the merits of the HPAT as a whole exist among students and indeed among medical educators and practitioners. Therefore the union would call for a review of the HPAT by an independent party (a review which should, among other things, analyse the impact of this particular incident on all students who took the HPAT). All relevant parties with interests in the HPAT should be consulted, including students. The union would not take a stance on the abolishing/not abolishing argument, unless mandated to do so by a vote.
Scores are calculated by computers in each section using incredibly complex mathematical/statistical algorithms, so if we were presented with it, we simply wouldn't understand but I presume it is done in a fair manner(Why wouldnt it?). I can guarantee that you filled in the remaining dots as guesses or left them blank on the answer sheet for S3 , so there's no point arguing/appealing with ACER over a wrong answer you've provided regardless of time constraints because they simply wont entertain it. That is like saying to the SEC "You went to take my Biology exam up early so i guessed the last few answers and they might be wrong, however I demand that it be moved from a B2 to B1". Your actual issue is a timing f*** up on the invigilator's part, not the standard of correction which ACER provide, so why would you want to see your script and appeal the result?
Publishing actual marking schemes to exams and publishing actual exams themselves does sound a reasonable argument however ACER want to try and keep this "you cant prepare for HPAT" motto going and as a result, they will never ever do that. Ever.
Dr Súin O'Flynn from UCC did a very detailed 'investigative' report on the HPAT in 2012 and I'm pretty sure it is online somewhere to read. This did include recommendations on the future of the exam and might be worth a look. One reason why I personally think it wont be abolished is because things would revert to the old system where you pretty much needed 600 points; and that system isn't very fair and the interview/statement option is way too open for bias.0 -
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I remember the good old days when I was young. Now I'm old and have responsibilities. *sigh* 
This discussion has been closed.
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