Whats considered a good salary?

CricketDude · 11-02-2012 11:18pm

Yahew wrote: »

I think the reason people don't believe you is simple. There is no way there are thousands of companies which pay no one less than a wage of €75k + €20k benefits in the private sector in the Irish Republic, if there were the average private sector salary would be much higher than €30k ish it is.

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Claiming you work in a "normal" company which isn't " the government, public sector, banking" which has that average wage is a big old claim. Obviously people would call you up on it. You have provided no proof, or no "slap downs" either. We are no closer to knowing where you work, or even in what sector you work in ( except that it isn't government of banking), and there is no such sector in Ireland.

And thats just killing you that i wont tell you where I work isnt it.
Do you seriously expect someone to post where they work on the internet?

I dont need to give you proof. It makes no difference to my life whether or not you know where I work or if you believe me or not. It makes no difference to your life either. But it seems to knaw at you.

All I wanted was to make the point that begrudgers will just begrudge, no matter how well off they are themselves.

And not only have I made the point, but you, and others, are proving it for me.

Yahew · 11-02-2012 11:24pm

CricketDude wrote: »

And thats just killing you that i wont tell you where I work isnt it.

Its not killing me, but I don't believe you.

Do you seriously expect someone to post where they work on the internet?

We don't even know the kind of job you have.

I dont need to give you proof. It makes no difference to my life whether or not you know where I work or if you believe me or not. It makes no difference to your life either. But it seems to knaw at you.

Why would it. I actually do earn more than 75K a year. Sterling. The reason why your pay come into it is you mention a fictional company where everybody earns more than 75K and everybody has benefits worth 20K, and that this was "common" with thousands o private sector companies in Ireland.

All I wanted was to make the point that begrudgers will just begrudge, no matter how well off they are themselves.

And not only have I made the point, but you, and others, are proving it for me.

You haven't made any point at all. I don't begrudge you your salary because I don't think you earn your salary. I don't think there are private sector companies in Ireland were everybody earns what you say, outside banking.

(possibly law, but people rarely call legal partnerships companies).

Yahew · 11-02-2012 11:26pm

Maybe its the ESB? Semi-State employees would defend the Public Sector :-)

CricketDude · 11-02-2012 11:35pm

Yahew wrote: »

Its not killing me, but I don't believe you.

We don't even know the kind of job you have.

Why would it. I actually do earn more than 75K a year. Sterling. The reason why your pay come into it is you mention a fictional company where everybody earns more than 75K and everybody has benefits worth 20K, and that this was "common" with thousands o private sector companies in Ireland.

You haven't made any point at all. I don't begrudge you your salary because I don't think you earn your salary. I don't think there are private sector companies in Ireland were everybody earns what you say, outside banking.

(possibly law, but people rarely call legal partnerships companies).

Yahew wrote: »

Maybe its the ESB? Semi-State employees would defend the Public Sector :-)

Yes, we can all see that its not killing you.

You're like a child now.

Im still not telling you where I work on the internet. If it bothers you that much send me a PM and i'll reply with what sector, but, please, give it a rest.

And, its none of the above. Its an ordinary job, well paid. Not a cent from any tax payer or govt agency goes into my company.

Yahew · 11-02-2012 11:47pm

CricketDude wrote: »

Yes, we can all see that its not killing you.
You're like a child now.

Im still not telling you where I work on the internet. If it bothers you that much send me a PM and i'll reply with what sector, but, please, give it a rest.

And, its none of the above. Its an ordinary job, well paid. Not a cent from any tax payer or govt agency goes into my company.

This thread is about whats considered a good salary. If there are "thousands" of "ordinary" private sector jobs which pay everybody what you claim then it should be posted on this thread, so we can redefine "good". Telling the sector will hardly identify you, and there is no chance of getting a PM from me.

In other words, when posting on the internet, have sources.

Heres a CSO link on average wages in Ireland - about 690 a week.

summerskin · 11-02-2012 11:54pm

Yahew wrote: »

CricketDude wrote: »

Yes, we can all see that its not killing you.
You're like a child now.

Im still not telling you where I work on the internet. If it bothers you that much send me a PM and i'll reply with what sector, but, please, give it a rest.

And, its none of the above. Its an ordinary job, well paid. Not a cent from any tax payer or govt agency goes into my company.

This thread is about whats considered a good salary. If there are "thousands" of "ordinary" private sector jobs which pay everybody what you claim then it should be posted on this thread, so we can redefine "good". Telling the sector will hardly identify you, and there is no chance of getting a PM from me.

In other words, when posting on the internet, have sources.

Heres a CSO link on average wages in Ireland - about 690 a week.

If 690 is the average then many earn less than that and many earn much more.

At my last company nobody was on less than 50k sterling basic plus bonus and benefits, in the private sector in the UK. 47 of us worked there, the top earners were on about 250k basic. It's not that uncommon.

ShadowHearth · 11-02-2012 11:54pm

After this thread I feel even more poor...

I got my hours cut so I earn even less then mentioned 350eu per week now.

Even at boom I was taking home 500-600 max.

I can't believe some of the salaries here mentioned to be "good" or "not bad". No wonder Ireland is in such ****. So many people overpayed as hell, and to make it worse they did not had a clue how to manage money...

**** this...

Yahew · 11-02-2012 11:55pm

summerskin wrote: »

If 690 is the average then many earn less than that and many earn much more.

At my last company nobody was on less than 50k sterling basic plus bonus and benefits, in the private sector in the UK. 47 of us worked there, the top earners were on about 250k basic. It's not that uncommon.

Whats the sector?

summerskin · 11-02-2012 11:57pm

Yahew wrote: »

summerskin wrote: »

If 690 is the average then many earn less than that and many earn much more.

At my last company nobody was on less than 50k sterling basic plus bonus and benefits, in the private sector in the UK. 47 of us worked there, the top earners were on about 250k basic. It's not that uncommon.

Whats the sector?

That was in oil and gas trading, engineering and exploration.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-02-2012 12:10am

ShadowHearth wrote: »

After this thread I feel even more poor...

I got my hours cut so I earn even less then mentioned 350eu per week now.

Even at boom I was taking home 500-600 max.

I can't believe some of the salaries here mentioned to be "good" or "not bad". No wonder Ireland is in such ****. So many people overpayed as hell, and to make it worse they did not had a clue how to manage money...

**** this...

Finally, someone who is actually real.
I'm definitely not in the E50k+ bracket, first I believe that the average figures are distorted by inflated salaries to a lucky few who will be paid E200k + bonuses, perks, mercs and expenses.
Average Joe does not earn E50k in ireland, he doesn't even earn E40k (still what I consider generous).
Many of us are struggling below that only for the state to constantly torpedo us and trying to sink us.
No more scones for me, I'm orf to play the grand piano, excuse me while I email my secretary.

summerskin · 12-02-2012 12:18am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

ShadowHearth wrote: »

After this thread I feel even more poor...

I got my hours cut so I earn even less then mentioned 350eu per week now.

Even at boom I was taking home 500-600 max.

I can't believe some of the salaries here mentioned to be "good" or "not bad". No wonder Ireland is in such ****. So many people overpayed as hell, and to make it worse they did not had a clue how to manage money...

**** this...

Finally, someone who is actually real.
I'm definitely not in the E50k+ bracket, first I believe that the average figures are distorted by inflated salaries to a lucky few who will be paid E200k + bonuses, perks, mercs and expenses.
Average Joe does not earn E50k in ireland, he doesn't even earn E40k (still what I consider generous).
Many of us are struggling below that only for the state to constantly torpedo us and trying to sink us.
No more scones for me, I'm orf to play the grand piano, excuse me while I email my secretary.

40k is far from generous for many jobs. Pay tends to, although not always, reflect your value to your employer. Some people, believe it or not, are worth their salaries, regardless of how high they may seem to you. Of course, some others aren't, just like some people who earn 25k aren't actually worth that even.

johnr1 · 12-02-2012 12:24am

It matters not one damm what one earns while one has the ability, health, sanity, and intellect to get up every day and earn it.
We either tailor our lifestyle and expenses to fit the salary or attempt to increase the salary to fund the lifestyle we want.

Magda lives very well in Donegal on the dole, while a Gerry Ryan was under pressure when his annual salary got reduced slightly to 450k ? or something.

We all make choices on what to do in life in our teenage years or early twenties, some careers are not open to everybody due to circumstances, academic ability etc, but VERY few people make these choices on future earning potential. This is as it should be.

I have earned a very large 'wage' at times in my life, now I'm under pressure, while still earning what many would consider good money.
I look forward to a time in the not too distant future when I will have removed much of my current debt etc, and can base my decisions on what work to do on something else apart from numbers.
Im gonna be as happy as a pig in sh1t earning tiny wages and living within them

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 12:25am

woodoo wrote: »

The private sector also go by the acronym HTT or Holier Than Thou if you prefer the long version.

A opposed to the Purse Suckers of the Public Sector.:)

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 12:27am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I don't get that "Oh we're really poor us civil servants"
I know at least three German social workers who came over here, because they would earn more than double of what they can earn in Germany.
And Germany might look a tad cheaper if you're just in the supermarket on holidays, but the amount of taxes and charges over there is staggering.
And one of my German friends went back again, he could not hack the attitude and work practices, saying it was too 19th century. Plush Irish politics did his head in.
He earns half now and is happier.

Agreed. The amount of taxes they pay is unnatural. In some parts of Germany if the road is cobblelocked outside your home you can be billed for it.:eek:

JuliusCaesar · 12-02-2012 12:34am

gigino wrote: »

50k is pretty good all right. Its about 17k more than the average private sector salary, and 2k more than the average public sector salary, which is 48k. www.cso.ie

Stinicker wrote: »

It is disgraceful that the public salary is so high, the public sector should be at least 10 to 20% behind the private sector for job security alone.

Ah lads. Statistics. When is everyone going to learn that the AVERAGE isn't always the most relevant stat? Often the Mode or the Median tells you a LOT more.

Mode:

mode is the value that occurs the most frequently in a data set or a probability distribution

so it isn't going to be skewed by outliers, like the Average/Mean will be. This is much be useful and closer to the truth when you look at 'average wages'.

Median:

the middle value of the given numbers or distribution in their ascending order.

I know yous don't care. But you need to know! Before you go around making erroneous assumptions. Not that yous care about that either, so long as yous get a chance to expostulate and get outraged about something, and see it as simple and easily understood. Go for it! It makes you feel better!

Tonyandthewhale · 12-02-2012 12:35am

Once I can afford to eat mostly complex carbohydrates rather than relying purely on simple carbohydrates then I'm happy out. Also, a new rolex every week is a must.

gigino · 12-02-2012 11:20am

Yahew wrote: »

Heres a CSO link on average wages in Ireland - about 690 a week.

now thats useful information. Its in the 30 to 35k year bracket. If thats the average, we can conclude that anything above the average is "good".

I wonder what a "good" pension is. The average public service pension is in the early thirties too, and a gratuity of 18 months finishing salary tax free is paid ( the guts of a hundred grand tax free ). Would that be a good pension? I think so.

marketty · 12-02-2012 11:35am

CricketDude wrote: »

And its the Irish condition to want to pull anyone you perceive to be doing better than you down, instead of working towards your own goals.

So true, reminds me of a quote I heard from someone, can't remember who
'the difference between Ireland and America is that in America people see a wealthy man with a nice house and nice car and say "I want to be that guy" whereas in Ireland they say "I want to kill that guy" '
How come so many people expect guards nurses and teachers to work for minimum wage yet the same people often won't come off the dole for a minimum wage job?

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 12:40pm

gigino wrote: »

now thats useful information. Its in the 30 to 35k year bracket. If thats the average, we can conclude that anything above the average is "good".

I wonder what a "good" pension is. The average public service pension is in the early thirties too, and a gratuity of 18 months finishing salary tax free is paid ( the guts of a hundred grand tax free ). Would that be a good pension? I think so.

It's actually a joke - given the state of the nation's "finances".

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 12:43pm

marketty wrote: »

So true, reminds me of a quote I heard from someone, can't remember who
'the difference between Ireland and America is that in America people see a wealthy man with a nice house and nice car and say "I want to be that guy" whereas in Ireland they say "I want to kill that guy" '
How come so many people expect guards nurses and teachers to work for minimum wage yet the same people often won't come off the dole for a minimum wage job?

No-one's expecting them to work for minimum wage. And FWIW - it's not those on the dole complaining. It's people like myself, whose taxes are going to fund the ridiculous inequity of the conditions and pay in the Public Sector - while the country continues to borrow €400m a week to fund it. Amazingly, were it not for the economic crisis, a lot of the information about PS pay & conditions would never have surfaced.

But I have no doubt that the IMF will force this issue to be tackled head-on. And the sooner the better.

Marcusm · 12-02-2012 12:55pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Ah lads. Statistics. When is everyone going to learn that the AVERAGE isn't always the most relevant stat? Often the Mode or the Median tells you a LOT more.

Mode: so it isn't going to be skewed by outliers, like the Average/Mean will be. This is much be useful and closer to the truth when you look at 'average wages'.

Median:

I know yous don't care. But you need to know! Before you go around making erroneous assumptions. Not that yous care about that either, so long as yous get a chance to expostulate and get outraged about something, and see it as simple and easily understood. Go for it! It makes you feel better!

Not trying to be picky but you need to tighten up your language. Bth the mode and The median are averages. When you refer to average, I assume you are referring to an arithmetic mean which is one of the cruder forms f average.

Dudess · 12-02-2012 1:10pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

gigino wrote: »

I doubt there is a company in the country like that. What sane company would pay its lowest paid employee - say for the sake of argument the 19 year old secretary - the guts of 100,000 a year ( 75k plus bonus + vhi + pension contribution etc )?

As long as they are not squandering taxpayers money they can do what they want, but I doubt any company would pay its lowest paid employee that.

Average public sector wages in the UK are 21.5k a year stg....and plenty of people over there complain about that.

It's certainly exactly like no company I ever worked for!
39 hours in our place and half the workforce (who where there for years) fired to be replaced with cheaper workers who barely get better than E10/hour.
Break times are not paid for anymore, but MUST be taken, so I'm working from 8 to 5.
Holidays, 20 days (i.e absolute minimum), the daily threats to our jobs on the noticeboard have ceased since the Union threatened the boss, but otherwise it's work like a dog and get abuse.

:eek:

What sector is it? That kinda stuff would cause a person to resign for their health!

LoanShark · 12-02-2012 1:19pm

puzzle factory wrote: »

prison officer,1749euro after tax,per week.

Where are you getting your figures from???????

It's not even anywhere near that for a fortnight!!

Dudess · 12-02-2012 1:19pm

LoanShark wrote: »

puzzle factory wrote: »

prison officer,1749euro after tax,per week.

Where are you getting your figures from???????

It's not even anywhere near that for a fortnight!!

Heh, had a feeling it would be wrong.

JuliusCaesar · 12-02-2012 1:51pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Not trying to be picky but you need to tighten up your language. Bth the mode and The median are averages. When you refer to average, I assume you are referring to an arithmetic mean which is one of the cruder forms f average.

Yeah, I know that, but the Average that everyone refers to here is what you and I call the Mean. As in the Average Wage. :rolleyes:

Dudess · 12-02-2012 2:10pm

Oh yes, the "I heard the average wage in the ESB is 70k" so they're all on 70k. Seems so difficult for a few to grasp that the average is a result of a small few getting very high salaries. But some folks just believe what they want to believe.

Yahew wrote: »

Maybe its the ESB? Semi-State employees would defend the Public Sector :-)

People who KNOW about the public sector and all the variables therein, working there or not, defend the public sector.

Would some people without kids need 50k to feel they're earning a good wage though?!

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 2:12pm

Dudess wrote: »

Oh yes, the "I heard the average wage in the ESB is 70k" so they're all on 70k. Seems so difficult for a few to grasp that the average is a result of a small few getting very high salaries. But some folks just believe what they want to believe.

People who KNOW about the public sector and all the variables therein, working there or not, defend the public sector.

Ever stop to think that majority ARE on it? Electricians gross, with benefits, some €96k per year. Just a thought.:)

munster87 · 12-02-2012 2:22pm

I get paid f##k all, but I don't really care. I get by. Complaining about others won't increase my wage. Some lads on here should really focus on their own lives and not be so bothered by other peoples jobs

Dudess · 12-02-2012 2:45pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

Ever stop to think that majority ARE on it? Electricians gross, with benefits, some €96k per year. Just a thought.:)

How do you know it's the majority? ":)"
Do you have access to their payroll?

I'm not saying there aren't people paid extremely high salaries there, although I wouldn't say what the salaries are unless I actually knew. I certainly wouldn't just pretend the highest paid electrician is representative of all of them. We all know an entry level sparky is not being paid 96k.

That's just the networks side - what about admin/clerical? Facilities? Bar senior management, these people get paid miles and miles off 70-96k. But some folks pretend that's not the case.

The Master. · 12-02-2012 2:56pm

Katgurl wrote: »

In today's climate I think 50k+ is pretty good

What climate? I dont think temperatures have a big effect on what is a good salary. Unless you are an ice cream man.

JuliusCaesar · 12-02-2012 3:00pm

The Master. wrote: »

What climate? I dont think temperatures have a big effect on what is a good salary. Unless you are an ice cream man.

For me and most other people, a decent wage is about 10K more than we're getting at present.

Marcusm · 12-02-2012 3:38pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Yeah, I know that, but the Average that everyone refers to here is what you and I call the Mean. As in the Average Wage. :rolleyes:

Fail again, there are three Means, the Arithmetic Mean, the Geometric Mean and the Harmonic Mean. That's why I suggested you refer to the AM.

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 3:39pm

Dudess wrote: »

How do you know it's the majority? ":)"
Do you have access to their payroll?

I'm not saying there aren't people paid extremely high salaries there, although I wouldn't say what the salaries are unless I actually knew. I certainly wouldn't just pretend the highest paid electrician is representative of all of them. We all know an entry level sparky is not being paid 96k.

That's just the networks side - what about admin/clerical? Facilities? Bar senior management, these people get paid miles and miles off 70-96k. But some folks pretend that's not the case.

I siad did you ever stop to "think" that it might be? Equally, can you prove that it isn't? You go on about people "pretending", but have you stopped - even for a moment - to consider it? I know of four ESB electricians (two now retired) and their wages are phenomenal. Good luck to them. But it is a reality. Not a myth as you would like it to be.

CricketDude · 12-02-2012 3:45pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

I siad did you ever stop to "think" that it might be? Equally, can you prove that it isn't? You go on about people "pretending", but have you stopped - even for a moment - to consider it? I know of four ESB electricians (two now retired) and their wages are phenomenal. Good luck to them. But it is a reality. Not a myth as you would like it to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Appeal to ignorance: the claim that whatever has not been proved false must be true, and vice versa. (e.g., There is no compelling evidence that UFOs are not visiting the Earth; therefore, UFOs exist, and there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. Or: There may be seventy kazillion other worlds, but not one is known to have the moral advancement of the Earth, so we're still central to the Universe.) This impatience with ambiguity can be criticized in the phrase: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

12-02-2012 3:46pm

CricketDude wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

every time i wonder should i get a new sig, someone gives me a reason to keep it

gigino · 12-02-2012 4:16pm

munster87 wrote: »

Some lads on here should really focus on their own lives and not be so bothered by other peoples jobs

but the point is the system is very wrong and unfair when other peoples taxes are going to pamper one little section of society, though exceptionally high wages and pensions. Why should average public sector pay south of the border be 48k while north of the border / in the UK its 21.5k a year stg? I thought it was us whose government was bust / getting bailouts/loans from the IMF/EU/UK which will have to be repaid?
|Spending on our public sector, even with the recent small cutbacks, has still doubled in the past ten years.
Morale in the country will not improve until the public sector gravy train is tackled.

munster87 · 12-02-2012 4:21pm

gigino wrote: »

munster87 wrote: »

Some lads on here should really focus on their own lives and not be so bothered by other peoples jobs

but the point is the system is very wrong and unfair when other peoples taxes are going to pamper one little section of society, though exceptionally high wages and pensions. Why should average public sector pay south of the border be 48k while north of the border / in the UK its 21.5k a year stg? I thought it was us whose government was bust / getting bailouts/loans from the IMF/EU/UK which will have to be repaid?
|Spending on our public sector, even with the recent small cutbacks, has still doubled in the past ten years.
Morale in the country will not improve until the public sector gravy train is tackled.

Be thankful you yourself are earning enough to survive on and get over it

Dudess · 12-02-2012 4:33pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

How do you know it's the majority? ":)"
Do you have access to their payroll?

I'm not saying there aren't people paid extremely high salaries there, although I wouldn't say what the salaries are unless I actually knew. I certainly wouldn't just pretend the highest paid electrician is representative of all of them. We all know an entry level sparky is not being paid 96k.

That's just the networks side - what about admin/clerical? Facilities? Bar senior management, these people get paid miles and miles off 70-96k. But some folks pretend that's not the case.

I siad did you ever stop to "think" that it might be? Equally, can you prove that it isn't? You go on about people "pretending", but have you stopped - even for a moment - to consider it? I know of four ESB electricians (two now retired) and their wages are phenomenal. Good luck to them. But it is a reality. Not a myth as you would like it to be.

I acknowledged there are extremely highly paid technical staff there, but some people like to say it's like this across the board - it isn't. The average is due to the minority. It's unfair to sneer at e.g. a phone agent and assume they're earning a fortune on the basis of the salary of a senior technician in a separate department.

And I'm not someone who thinks a low salary is something that's actually kinda good. If I were on e.g. 30 grand I'd be loaded.

ToxicPaddy · 12-02-2012 4:47pm

Bash the public sector or don't bash the public sector.. It doesn't matter.

Unfortunately the general perception of all PS workers is that of a spoilt group of people riding the gravy train who will quite happily hold the country to ransom if they don't get their way.. Unjustifiably high salaries for certain groups and limitless monies to throw away on useless or unrequired projects while others such as education and healthcare suffer..

I know PS workers who like their jobs, work hard and do a good job. I also know ones that are a complete waste of space.

The general gripe most people have with the PS is their lack of accountability. If someone screws up, very little is done about it. Benchmarking didnt help as it gave everyone a payrise irrespective of whether they deserved it or not. The ones that did deserve it got tarred with the same brush as those that didn't.

The PS unions pushing for payrises when large portions of the private sector were wondering if they would a job or not in the near future.

The biggest problem the PS have is the way they are perceived by the general public and tax payer who is being taxed more and more and all they hear about is the gov paying huge percentages of its income in PS wages.

Yes those on lower pay scales are being hammered by levies etc while the fat cats at the top are getting larger salaries for doing SFA..

The only way this can be solved is a complete over haul and a private sector mentality brought in. The fat needs to be trimmed, less middle management and a more efficient PS workforce put in place with the resources to do their job properly. Incentives for increased productivity from workers etc.

Of course its never going to happen because PS unions have had every government by the balls since day one.

Maybe an overhaul of the unions might be the first place to start and make them more accountable..

gigino · 12-02-2012 4:49pm

munster87 wrote: »

Be thankful you yourself are earning enough to survive on and get over it

"i'm all right jack" is not the correct attitude to take. There is something very wrong and unfair with the nations finances, when public service pay north of the border is double what it is south of the border. And when you compare people from the private sector here doing the same job as the public sector. It does not matter if they are a vet or a security man - the public service person is practically always overpaid and overpensioned in this rotten little state.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-02-2012 5:14pm

munster87 wrote: »

I get paid f##k all, but I don't really care. I get by. Complaining about others won't increase my wage. Some lads on here should really focus on their own lives and not be so bothered by other peoples jobs

I get paid just about or slightly under the average.
And my taxes fund the public sector.
Why should I not ask where my money goes and how it is spent?
Also, "we the people" elect those muppets in power who decide how the money gets spent, so, YES, this is MY money, I should get to decide what is done with it (through my vote) and if I complain the right way, maybe, finally, there will be a slash and burn in the public sector, bringing down their gigantic payroll and therefore maybe even lowering my taxes.
So, to disprove your head in the sand argument, complaining about massive wages in the public sector WILL improve my salary.
Maybe right now we're not complaining the right way, but eventually the people will have to complain by voting in different politicians and if that doesn't work, we'll have to complain with pitchforks and torches and clean out the rat's nest that is Dail Eireann.

fat__tony · 12-02-2012 5:21pm

summerskin wrote: »

That was in oil and gas trading, engineering and exploration.

Not a very secure profession though.

Once the price of oil drops its bad news.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-02-2012 5:26pm

fat__tony wrote: »

Not a very secure profession though.

Once the price of oil drops its bad news.

The price of oil dropping?
That's like saying the government will abolish VAT!
No wonder everyone's in that company gets paid E100k, as long as oil is needed (and it's needed to make plastic, not only to drive cars, remember that) it's the most secure gig to be in for at least the next 50 years.

Dudess · 12-02-2012 5:39pm

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

Bash the public sector or don't bash the public sector.. It doesn't matter.

Unfortunately the general perception of all PS workers is that of a spoilt group of people riding the gravy train who will quite happily hold the country to ransom if they don't get their way.. Unjustifiably high salaries for certain groups and limitless monies to throw away on useless or unrequired projects while others such as education and healthcare suffer..

I know PS workers who like their jobs, work hard and do a good job. I also know ones that are a complete waste of space.

The general gripe most people have with the PS is their lack of accountability. If someone screws up, very little is done about it. Benchmarking didnt help as it gave everyone a payrise irrespective of whether they deserved it or not. The ones that did deserve it got tarred with the same brush as those that didn't.

The PS unions pushing for payrises when large portions of the private sector were wondering if they would a job or not in the near future.

The biggest problem the PS have is the way they are perceived by the general public and tax payer who is being taxed more and more and all they hear about is the gov paying huge percentages of its income in PS wages.

Yes those on lower pay scales are being hammered by levies etc while the fat cats at the top are getting larger salaries for doing SFA..

The only way this can be solved is a complete over haul and a private sector mentality brought in. The fat needs to be trimmed, less middle management and a more efficient PS workforce put in place with the resources to do their job properly. Incentives for increased productivity from workers etc.

Of course its never going to happen because PS unions have had every government by the balls since day one.

Maybe an overhaul of the unions might be the first place to start and make them more accountable..

Very well put - far more intelligent than "Let's just bash all the public sector".

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 6:26pm

Dudess wrote: »

I acknowledged there are extremely highly paid technical staff there, but some people like to say it's like this across the board - it isn't. The average is due to the minority. It's unfair to sneer at e.g. a phone agent and assume they're earning a fortune on the basis of the salary of a senior technician in a separate department.

And I'm not someone who thinks a low salary is something that's actually kinda good. If I were on e.g. 30 grand I'd be loaded.

I would agree that 30-50k is a great salary by today's standards. Our own daughter is in her final year of accountancy and is not earning much more than the minimum wage. Sign of the times really.

Marcusm · 12-02-2012 6:26pm

fat__tony wrote: »

Not a very secure profession though.

Once the price of oil drops its bad news.

Money would be made from trading volatility, ie changes in prices, rather than rising prices. The issue with permanenetly low (or high) prices is that behaviour becomes static and people don't look for better deals giving traders few opportunities to trade.

franciebellew · 12-02-2012 6:28pm

Keg

Yahew · 12-02-2012 9:35pm

Dudess wrote: »

How do you know it's the majority? ":)"
Do you have access to their payroll?

I'm not saying there aren't people paid extremely high salaries there, although I wouldn't say what the salaries are unless I actually knew. I certainly wouldn't just pretend the highest paid electrician is representative of all of them. We all know an entry level sparky is not being paid 96k.

That's just the networks side - what about admin/clerical? Facilities? Bar senior management, these people get paid miles and miles off 70-96k. But some folks pretend that's not the case.

Jesus, if the admin/clerical and Facilities are badly paid, and less than 76K then the rest of the staff are making far more. On average.

People dismiss averages when it suits them ( not, say, when the average is male pay vs female pay). In this case we don't know that the senior managers are earning more than private sector jobs. If not then the average is bumped up across all sectors.

summerskin · 12-02-2012 9:38pm

fat__tony wrote: »

summerskin wrote: »

That was in oil and gas trading, engineering and exploration.

Not a very secure profession though.

Once the price of oil drops its bad news.

Not at all, and the exploration/engineering side of it will e in massive demand for at least three decades.

Since I moved to Ireland I'm in a different sector anyway, but it's good to have oil and gas as my safety net just in case.

Dubit10 · 12-02-2012 10:17pm

I'd say 800+ euro a week. Minimum wage is a complete joke in this country. I don't know how someone could survive on that sort of money tbh.

One of my good friends came off the dole last summer for a minimum wage job and lasted about seven weeks before he realised he was in a worse place financially every week. It's a mad system in this country tbh.

Whats considered a good salary?

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