"Southern" Ireland... do you mean 'Ireland'?

Slutmonkey57b · 11-04-2006 4:13pm

zuma wrote:

OMFFFFFFFG:eek: :eek: :eek:
I would have stared off into space in utter shock for a minute after hearing that, not making a sound due to the shock.
Then I would have walked out in pure disgust....!

Oh. My. God. Like. How. Gross!

**** beep beep beep beep beep ****
NEWSFLASH
**** beeb beep beep beep beep ****

The person behind the desk was probably "Joking", or possibly "Taking the piss" which is what "People with a sense of fu.cking humour" are known to do.

In fairness, there's nothing more amusing at times than quietly nudging the absolutely massive chip that a lot of Irish people have on their shoulder to see them foam at the mouth and flail around on the floor.

Isn't it strange though that people who have such massive over-sensitivity to phrases like "British Isles" tend also to be chronically abusive to English people? Yet they love the Scots, which is strange since the troublemaking Orangemen in the North are actually Scotsmen, not English.

Mr.Nice Guy · 12-04-2006 4:23am

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Yet they love the Scots, which is strange since the troublemaking Orangemen in the North are actually Scotsmen, not English.

They're actually Irish. From the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland.

Coconut · 12-04-2006 8:38am

I'm living in Stockholm now. One night I was out and an English guy (well dressed, well spoken) overheard myself and my friends talking. We got chatting, he asked where we were from...and his next comment was something along the lines of "Yeah, everyone loves Ireland, its, like, the fun part of the UK".
We were speechless...

Slutmonkey57b · 12-04-2006 11:05am

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

They're actually Irish. From the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland.

People blame the English for the colonisation of Ulster by bigoted religious fundamentalists. My point is that the fundamentalists in question were Scottish, not English.

Flex · 12-04-2006 11:14am

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

People blame the English for the colonisation of Ulster by bigoted religious fundamentalists. My point is that the fundamentalists in question were Scottish, not English.

Alot were English I thought. Correct me if Im wrong here, but generally arnt people in the CoI (ie. Anglican Church) people with ancestory in England originally, and Presbyterians are people with ancestory in Scotland originally. I thought they came from northern England and southern Scotland.

biko · 12-04-2006 12:09pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

People blame the English for the colonisation of Ulster by bigoted religious fundamentalists. My point is that the fundamentalists in question were Scottish, not English.

The Scots were encouraged there by their English rulers. Also it was only a short leap across the sound to get to Ireland, easy enough for the poor western Scots to move over as part of the planned plantation, very much like the plantation of Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

Slutmonkey57b · 13-04-2006 2:07am

Not as simple as that. Scottish peasants were always far more under the thumb of their local laird than they were of the English crown. As evidenced by the different state of property law between England and Scotland. If scottish peasants were planted by the English rulers, then if anything they were being saved by local tyrrany by a more progressive English state - and being accommodated by willing Irish noblemen. The problem with the Evil English Empire is that in actual fact it was less of an empire and more of a willing alliance. It couldn't have existed, especially on military strength, without the willing participation of part of the conquered lands.

murphaph · 13-04-2006 2:41am

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Officialy it's Northern Ireland and Ireland! Check your passport.

Under Irish law yes, but a person in Northern Ireland can quite legally and properly claim that it's "Northern Ireland" and "The Republic of Ireland". This is due to a thing called the "Ireland Act, 1949". This act of westminster parliament was needed following our government's declaration of a republic. The UK government believed it wise to stick with "Republic of Ireland" or "Irish Republic" as the legal names for the 26 counties so as not to offend there own british citizens in Northern Ireland who would not have liked the UK to recognise the name "Ireland" as being legitimate for the 26 counties to use as it implies an island of Ireland sovereign state which didn't and doesn't exist. So in summary, it's Eire/Ireland south of the border and Eire/Republic of Ireland/Irish Republic north of the border, hence the BBC use "Irish Republic". Confused yet?

Victor · 14-04-2006 1:36am

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

It couldn't have existed, especially on military strength, without the willing participation of part of the conquered lands.

All empires depend on their subjugated lands for support, most people just want to get on with their lives and will end up paying the same tax whether they are paying it locally or to the empire. Its only when things get out of hand do people rebel.

rogue-entity · 14-04-2006 3:56am

I can say that I have no opinion of the british themselves. I have no dislike for britain or its people. My opinion of its goverenment is a different matter entirely.

I am well aware of Irish history, and I cant understand why people in Ireland still have problems with britain today. What happened, happened more then 80 years ago, get over it people.

I like how, hypocriticlly, people in my school year used to love hassling some of my friends who were english, and yet had no problem speaking english or watching BBC, ITV and Sky 1. If those people, or people in general have such a strong dislike of the British, or indeed all things british, then stop speaking English and boycott english television and radio etc.

Now, I dont refer to britain as "the United Kingdom/UK" I always use the term "Great Britain/Britain". I dont consider "northern ireland" part of the UK per se, but merely under british juristiction.

I hate companies, particularly asian and american companies that group Ireland and Britain into the same "country". We are seperate countries with seperate currencies FFS. Asian motherboard makers and Expedia are particular examples of this problem. I already explained why an Apple computer in Ireland is more expensive then one in the US because they sell them at the price in GB£ converted into € which makes a laptop costing $2000 cost over €2200 instead of €1500. But Expedia are just as bad. They have there .com site and we went to buy tickets on it. We went to select our country on the list but lo and behold, Ireland was not listed. Every other nation on the planet was listed, bar Ireland (and britain). So we would have to buy the tickets on the .uk site. This would mean that instead of getting them 17% cheaper, they would be 45% more expensive. This is just not fair damit. Why cant they put Ireland into the same bracket as france or germany, instead of britain.

Eru · 17-04-2006 5:49pm

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Wrong. Irish comes from Ireland. The Scottish language comes from Irish. The Scots came from Ireland!

Guilty of the same crime it appears.

Eru · 17-04-2006 5:52pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

They're actually Irish. From the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland.

In Dublin?

palomca · 05-12-2008 1:13am

Sorry, but hearing a southerner say something along the lines of "no, I'm not southern Irish, I'm Irish" absolutely makes my blood boil!:mad:

As someone from Northern Ireland, something that annoys me even more (actually, INFURIATES me) is the fact that those in the Republic have the complete and utter arrogance to call their country just 'Ireland' in the first place, without any differentiator from the island as a whole.

In Northern Ireland we are as Irish as you southerners, but that does not mean that your state should try and pretend that you can sovereignty over the whole island (supposedly the constitution of the Republic was altered to remove this in response to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement).

I could even argue (in a partially tongue-in-cheek way) that in Northern Ireland we are more the true Irish than those in the Republic. We have not lost sight of our greater heritage within the British Isles (to me the identity in the south is more based on the flaky belief that you are 'not British' - this is undoubtedly true in modern political terms, but not in the greater geographical and cultural terms). Additionally, a large part of Irish mythology comes from Ulster.

If only those in the south would realise that there are a large amount of wounds that would be healed throughout the island if those in the Republic would have the decency to name their country in a much less-ambiguous fashion. Because of your choice to name your country in such an ambiguous way, we have unionist idiots here in the north that will not call themselves 'Irish', all because of the confusion that is caused by the shambolic naming of the southern Irish state. Prior to partition, all unionists/protestants would have called themselves 'Irish' - now not so. The only way they all will once more, is if those in the south have he forethought and intelligence to consider calling their state something more humble than just 'Ireland'. (I'm crossing my fingers here, but am not optimistic that the capability of that forethought in the south is actually possible...)

brianthebard · 05-12-2008 1:14am

palomca wrote: »

Sorry, but hearing a southerner say something along the lines of "no, I'm not southern Irish, I'm Irish" absolutely makes my blood boil!:mad:

As someone from Northern Ireland, something that annoys me even more (actually, INFURIATES me) is the fact that those in the Republic have the complete and utter arrogance to call their country just 'Ireland' in the first place, without any differentiator from the island as a whole.

When will ye northerners get that we just don't want ye???

mikemac · 05-12-2008 1:18am

OP, you need to realise that Ireland was oh but a tiny spec of the British Empire.
They don't learn much about Irish history in British schools, they know about the "potato famine" but realy not that much about it.

Sure why would they, as they learn about every other country in the Empire "where the Sun never sets"

They call it Southern Ireland and I'd say many don't know it's a Republic. But what's worse if you go up north and elderly people call it the Free State which went in 1949, they realy have no excuse

Don't worry about it

javaboy · 05-12-2008 1:19am

This thread almost predates the treaty.

palomca · 05-12-2008 1:19am

brianthebard wrote: »

When will ye northerners get that we just don't want ye???

As a northerner, I don't particularly want yous in the south either, but would like to think that we could both be equally entitled to celebrate our greater Irish heritage.

mikemac · 05-12-2008 1:23am

Victor wrote: »

Um, Chapelizod is on the northside (Dublin 8).

Chapelizod is Dublin 20!

Dublin 8 is full of junkies

riff-raff · 05-12-2008 1:32am

THe scots came from Ireland originly ..so we just invaded ourselfs
scotia is a roman term for pirate .. or for the Irish sea raiders

axel rose · 05-12-2008 1:35am

I admit that I didnt read all of the posts so this may have been mentioned before but I thought everyone knew that history in its teaching is biased. Its one half of a story. It wasnt too long ago that that the map of the world put Africa the same size as India.

I have a degree in geography and can honestly say that I never ever studied any aspect of British phsyical or economic geography. (Barring a brief mention in secondary school that many of our exports go there). I consider history and geography teaching a great big tabloid paper experiment.

cson · 05-12-2008 1:44am

micmclo wrote: »

They call it Southern Ireland and I'd say many don't know it's a Republic. But what's worse if you go up north and elderly people call it the Free State which went in 1949, they realy have no excuse

Free state ceased in 1937 when Bunreacht na hEireann came into effect.

palomca wrote: »

Sorry, but hearing a southerner say something along the lines of "no, I'm not southern Irish, I'm Irish" absolutely makes my blood boil!:mad:

As someone from Northern Ireland, something that annoys me even more (actually, INFURIATES me) is the fact that those in the Republic have the complete and utter arrogance to call their country just 'Ireland' in the first place, without any differentiator from the island as a whole.

In Northern Ireland we are as Irish as you southerners, but that does not mean that your state should try and pretend that you can sovereignty over the whole island (supposedly the constitution of the Republic was altered to remove this in response to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement).

I could even argue (in a partially tongue-in-cheek way) that in Northern Ireland we are more the true Irish than those in the Republic. We have not lost sight of our greater heritage within the British Isles (to me the identity in the south is more based on the flaky belief that you are 'not British' - this is undoubtedly true in modern political terms, but not in the greater geographical and cultural terms). Additionally, a large part of Irish mythology comes from Ulster.

If only those in the south would realise that there are a large amount of wounds that would be healed throughout the island if those in the Republic would have the decency to name their country in a much less-ambiguous fashion. Because of your choice to name your country in such an ambiguous way, we have unionist idiots here in the north that will not call themselves 'Irish', all because of the confusion that is caused by the shambolic naming of the southern Irish state. Prior to partition, all unionists/protestants would have called themselves 'Irish' - now not so. The only way they all will once more, is if those in the south have he forethought and intelligence to consider calling their state something more humble than just 'Ireland'. (I'm crossing my fingers here, but am not optimistic that the capability of that forethought in the south is actually possible...)

Article 4 of the constitution states the name of the state is "Eire" or in english "Ireland". The Republic of Ireland act 1948 effectively only served to remove the last vestiges of the crown from the state, not to rename the state. The claim to territory of all of the island ceased after Article 2 was ameded following a referendum after the Good Friday agreement. This more or less ceded the North to the UK for the forseeable future.

To be honest, you're being very pedantic in dragging up a 2 year old thread basically to make a point about what the state is called. I'd hazard a guess that if i was as simple as the Unionists only having an issue with what Irish people referred to their State as, then the problem of partition would be solved easily. However as a resident of Northern Ireland I'm sure you can appreciate that the issues run somewhat more deeply than that.

Seeing as this is after hours I think this quote is appropriate in the circumstances;

"Freedom? Freedom's just a word. If I had to die for a word, it'd be 'poontang'."

Get over it.

mikemac · 05-12-2008 1:47am

cson wrote: »

Free state ceased in 1937 when Bunreacht na hEireann came into effect.

Tell that to the people of Northern Ireland.

I've read in the GAA forum about supporters being called "Free State bastards" by supporters from the 6 counties which is kind of contradictory from a GAA fan.
Having worked in Belfast I often heard "oh you're from the Free State"

Living in the past I tell ya

TheVan · 05-12-2008 1:57am

I lived in London last year and the 'Southern Ireland' thing drove me nutty too....and I'm the last person to actually care!

Of course, the traditional English were trampled all over by the Normans in 1066, the Normans came over here in 1169 and pretty much took over so in reality we're all the same really! If anything, we're all Vikings/French!

05-12-2008 2:13am

TheVan wrote: »

I lived in London last year and the 'Southern Ireland' thing drove me nutty too....and I'm the last person to actually care!

For most British people it's simple logic! if one part of the country is called "Northern Ireland" then logically the other bit must be "Southern Ireland"

Think North London, South London or Northern England/Southern England...

It's all the same, British people just prefer to use geographic terminology rather than political when referring to any location within the British Isles*

*another name that's a smoking gun for some republicans

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-12-2008 2:36am

History is nothing more than the science and teaching of hate.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 05-12-2008 3:04am

TheVan wrote: »

I lived in London last year and the 'Southern Ireland' thing drove me nutty too....and I'm the last person to actually care!

Why does it bother ya? I'm from dublin but living in derry, i often say I'm from "down south"

"southern" is just easier to say than " The Republic of"

Pride Fighter · 05-12-2008 3:11am

I am from Dublin. I am not from Southern Ireland. I am from Eastern Ireland and if anyone disagrees with me look at a bloody map.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 05-12-2008 3:12am

[PHP][/PHP]

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I am from Dublin. I am not from Southern Ireland. I am from Eastern Ireland and if anyone disagrees with me look at a bloody map.

You're from the eastern part of Southern Ireland. Like some one from Seoul is from north of South Korea

rossie1977 · 05-12-2008 3:26am

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Why does it bother ya? I'm from dublin but living in derry, i often say I'm from "down south"

"southern" is just easier to say than " The Republic of"

so what happens if you are from donegal and you are working in fermanagh or armagh or down, do you say I'm from "down south" when in fact you are from up north

in fact if you live in inishowen everywhere in northern ireland is down south

05-12-2008 11:21am

rossie1977 wrote: »

so what happens if you are from donegal and you are working in fermanagh or armagh or down, do you say I'm from "down south" when in fact you are from up north

yes. I live in Donegal and work in Tyrone and always refer to the "south" even though I'm more northern than anyone in NI!

Irlbo · 05-12-2008 11:28am

Just something that makes unionists comfortable by thinking its a strange foreign land afew miles South down the road from them,and allows britain to maintain its impereal nature by teaching the kids,that the North of Ireland is part of Britain and that the catholics and nationalists that live there are murdering terrorists,implanting a small notion in their minds that supports the occupation and that all Irish particulary ''Northern Irish'' are monsters

Latchy · 05-12-2008 11:38am

JaysusMacfeck wrote: »

I had the honour of reading some history books, British curriculum history books no less.. still used in England today.

The Brits in school are taught about "Irish" history in a very different way than we are, as I discovered. I put 'Irish' in quotes because it is taught as "other history of the British isles".

Irish history in the English curriculum is extremely scarce, and any mention of the island of Ireland refers to mainly Northern Ireland and the IRA terrorists killing the innocent British protestants - the rightful British landowners in Ireland who were “discriminated against” and "disrespected by the Catholics".

Ireland (as we know it) is referred to as "Southern" Ireland only, which is a part the British Isles (pictures showing Ireland and Britain with "BRITISH ISLES" plastered all over Ireland - very misleading me thinks. This is why Brits ask me if I’m “southern Irish”. I say “No, I’m not from Cork, I’m from Dublin, I’m Irish….”

According to this book, the problems in N.I are due to the... “long established British protestants” and “the Catholic differences that opposed them and wanted to invade the protestant, British land”. Also, some vague mention of England granting "Southern Ireland" some sort of limited control over “some southern areas’.

OK, let’s pretend that I'm a British kid learning history in Britain. As far as I'm concerned, the island of Ireland belongs to the UK, all the people from Ireland were originally British, and the 'troubles' on that little island are due to the minority Catholic 'backward' people, and also the IRA terrorists. It’s these pesky ‘Irish’ people that became greedy and wanted the land in Ireland for themselves.

I AM TELLING YOU NOW – I have lived and worked in the UK for 3 years – This is what the majority of English people think.

You’d be surprised at how many think that the whole Island of Ireland is ruled by London and that the Irish people are of royal blood and that the Union Jack represents the two islands. I pity these people, I pity the fact that they have been fed bull**** for most of there lives.

Why do the Brits censor their shameful history? The Germans are taught EVERYTHING about their history - I respect the Germans in that they know the TRUTH about their country’s history. I also respect the Dutch because they are taught MORE about Irish history than the Brits– I cannot count the amount of times the Dutch have apologised for mistaking me as British!

Some 'facts' from British education:

"The Gaelic language comes from Scotland. All music, language and culture originated from British Scotland ....... The Southern Irish still use old Scottish Gaelic placenames on their road signs, they cling to their links with the other British languages."

Wrong. Irish comes from Ireland. The Scottish language comes from Irish. The Scots came from Ireland!

I think OP is generalising .You think of British / history in more recent times then one thinks of the NI troubles and your average british kid at primary level is thought that '' we won the war ,and we beat Hitler .But outside school they hardly give a monkeys for their own history or any other countrys ,never mind irelands and i cant really agree with OP's views .Students and adults of higher education will have a better grasp of 'Ireland ' southern Ireland ' EIRE ' in their learning and understanding of British/Irish history more than the average joe but i have at times over 20 years living here being surprised by how well up some ordianary english people are about British/ Irish history .

ibuprofen · 05-12-2008 11:49am

palomca wrote: »

Sorry, but hearing a southerner say something along the lines of "no, I'm not southern Irish, I'm Irish" absolutely makes my blood boil!:mad:

As someone from Northern Ireland, something that annoys me even more (actually, INFURIATES me) is the fact that those in the Republic have the complete and utter arrogance to call their country just 'Ireland' in the first place, without any differentiator from the island as a whole.

In Northern Ireland we are as Irish as you southerners, but that does not mean that your state should try and pretend that you can sovereignty over the whole island (supposedly the constitution of the Republic was altered to remove this in response to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement).

I could even argue (in a partially tongue-in-cheek way) that in Northern Ireland we are more the true Irish than those in the Republic. We have not lost sight of our greater heritage within the British Isles (to me the identity in the south is more based on the flaky belief that you are 'not British' - this is undoubtedly true in modern political terms, but not in the greater geographical and cultural terms). Additionally, a large part of Irish mythology comes from Ulster.

If only those in the south would realise that there are a large amount of wounds that would be healed throughout the island if those in the Republic would have the decency to name their country in a much less-ambiguous fashion. Because of your choice to name your country in such an ambiguous way, we have unionist idiots here in the north that will not call themselves 'Irish', all because of the confusion that is caused by the shambolic naming of the southern Irish state. Prior to partition, all unionists/protestants would have called themselves 'Irish' - now not so. The only way they all will once more, is if those in the south have he forethought and intelligence to consider calling their state something more humble than just 'Ireland'. (I'm crossing my fingers here, but am not optimistic that the capability of that forethought in the south is actually possible...)

Humerous post, it's veracity is questionable . I've a few comments on your post.

If you say you're Irish it means your from Ireland whether it be the north or the Republic same as saying your english means you're from England, Spanish from Spain etc. I wouldn't get too upset about it

The term british isles no longer exists in Ireland.

Being british means you are from britian. britian being the bigger of the two islands. I can't see why you would see that as being flaky or geographical or culturally true.

"Great Britain" is the eastern island of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Politically, "Great Britain" describes the combination of England, Scotland, and Wales, and therefore also includes a number of outlying islands such as the Isle of Wight, Anglesey, the Isles of Scilly, the Hebrides, and the island groups of Orkney and Shetland. It does not include the outlying islands of the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands as they have independent legislative and taxation systems.[6][7]

So unionists don't call themselves irish because of confusion in the name of the irish state. It has noting to do with unionist ideology???

Perhaps you could use some forethought and intelligence in relation to this matter instead of angrily casting blame and trying to force your opinion upon others...... just a suggestion.:(

p.s. if you want to persist pushing your view upon others why don't you set up a few user names and agree with yourself.:D

mike65 · 05-12-2008 12:02pm

Please lock.

cson · 05-12-2008 12:05pm

Lads, the thread is over 2 years old.

Let it slide.

thejuggler · 05-12-2008 12:08pm

Its an interesting discussion. I think that there is a lot of confusion by the British in what to refer to our nation as. Over the years I have received letters from the UK where the country is referrred to as Ireland, Southern Ireland, Irish Republic, Republic of Ireland and 'Eire'
Maybe there is too much terminology. I always use 'Republic of Ireland' when ordering something online but I frequently find that the country is changed to one of the other variations. It probably boils down to whatever term is most familiar to the individual.
As other posters have said I definitely don't think there is any malice involved. In fact some Brits I have spoken to don't realise that Northern Ireland is British. Ireland is Ireland to them and as a different island seems separate to their notion of the UK. Names and geography of other countries just aren't very important to the average person.

Saruman · 05-12-2008 12:16pm

Why is having Ireland as one of the "British Isles" misleading? We are a British isle!! We were a British isle before the english came to power on the Island they occupy now. Long before they invaded this Island.
Geographicaly we are, always have been and always will be a British isle.

Latchy · 05-12-2008 12:20pm

thejuggler wrote: »

It probably boils down to whatever term is most familiar to the individual.
As other posters have said I definitely don't think there is any malice involved. In fact some Brits I have spoken to don't realise that Northern Ireland is British. Ireland is Ireland to them and as a different island seems separate to their notion of the UK. Names and geography of other countries just aren't very important to the average person.

Indeed when i am posting parcels to ROI in local post office the girl always ask's ' southern or northern ireland ? .

Saruman wrote: »

Why is having Ireland as one of the "British Isles" misleading? We are a British isle!! We were a British isle before the english came to power on the Island they occupy now. Long before they invaded this Island.
Geographicaly we are, always have been and always will be a British isle.

Something I discovered as a kid after school in ireland .

DubArk · 05-12-2008 12:27pm

palomca wrote: »

Sorry, but hearing a southerner say something along the lines of "no, I'm not southern Irish, I'm Irish" absolutely makes my blood boil!:mad:

As someone from Northern Ireland, something that annoys me even more (actually, INFURIATES me) is the fact that those in the Republic have the complete and utter arrogance to call their country just 'Ireland' in the first place, without any differentiator from the island as a whole.

In Northern Ireland we are as Irish as you southerners, but that does not mean that your state should try and pretend that you can sovereignty over the whole island (supposedly the constitution of the Republic was altered to remove this in response to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement).

I could even argue (in a partially tongue-in-cheek way) that in Northern Ireland we are more the true Irish than those in the Republic. We have not lost sight of our greater heritage within the British Isles (to me the identity in the south is more based on the flaky belief that you are 'not British' - this is undoubtedly true in modern political terms, but not in the greater geographical and cultural terms). Additionally, a large part of Irish mythology comes from Ulster.

If only those in the south would realise that there are a large amount of wounds that would be healed throughout the island if those in the Republic would have the decency to name their country in a much less-ambiguous fashion. Because of your choice to name your country in such an ambiguous way, we have unionist idiots here in the north that will not call themselves 'Irish', all because of the confusion that is caused by the shambolic naming of the southern Irish state. Prior to partition, all unionists/protestants would have called themselves 'Irish' - now not so. The only way they all will once more, is if those in the south have he forethought and intelligence to consider calling their state something more humble than just 'Ireland'. (I'm crossing my fingers here, but am not optimistic that the capability of that forethought in the south is actually possible...)

You're a very angry person.

Rather then getting your knickers in a knot and making huge generalisations in only your second post, why dont you celebrate what we have in common and stop trying to put a wedge between both communities.

We're all sick of the old days when people couldn't agree about place names and so forth, so much blood spilt!!

I live in Dublin and i will call myself Southern Irish if you take a deep breath and realise that making your blood boil over such things is not good for your health or those you're aming your anger at.

asdasd · 05-12-2008 12:36pm

I dont mind the Southern Irish thing. Two things bug me

1) Most English people dont know anything about Potato famines, Penal laws, Cromwell etc. And if they do we should just get over it. The dogs on the street know that Ireland was neutral in WWII.
2) It is fairly common to believe that we Irish are fighting amongst ourselves in Northern Ireland. It is part of the UK. This is rarer but when people ask me what is going on with the Irish problem, I am quick to wonder what is going on with the British problem, in the UK part of the Island i was born into. That can be very confusing to them.

as in

British chap : What is going on with you Irish in Northern Ireland?
Asdasd: what is going on with you British in the UK up there?

I realise this kind of talk will also piss off some northeners.

Irlbo · 05-12-2008 12:43pm

Its Ireland,not Eire or 'republic' of Ireland,not Southern Ireland',not Northern Ireland,Ireland,we dont have to go by governments and establishment to be told what to call our country,and in regards British Isles,who says they are the British isles,just because some long dead person said so

Latchy · 05-12-2008 12:53pm

asdasd wrote: »

I dont mind the Southern Irish thing. Two things bug me

1) Most English people dont know anything about Potato famines, Penal laws, Cromwell etc. And if they do we should just get over it. The dogs on the street know that Ireland was neutral in WWII.
2) It is fairly common to believe that we Irish are fighting amongst ourselves in Northern Ireland. It is part of the UK. This is rarer but when people ask me what is going on with the Irish problem, I am quick to wonder what is going on with the British problem, in the UK part of the Island i was born into. That can be very confusing to them.

as in

British chap : What is going on with you Irish in Northern Ireland?
Asdasd: what is going on with you British in the UK up there?

I realise this kind of talk will also piss off some northeners.

Reminds me of the quote a very famous (deceased) irish actor gave to royalty once when he was presented to them at an award .This was at the height of the troubles In NI .He was introduced to the Queen who said to him '' I see your having problems over in your country ? to which he dryly replied '' that's the problem you see ,you think it's ( country ) yours''.

Something I was wondering about and that is .....was our education at irish school ( in my case the de la salle ) very anti british based ?

I left school hating the english due to the years spent in class learing about the famine and all the atrocities comminted by the british over the centurys .But looking back i can see how the christian brothers teachings were not only hard and cruel at times, but also leaned heavly, towards republicinism ,in the same way the german youth were taught anti semitisim .I am a lot older and mature now to look back and understand were all that hatred and frustration came from and see that ireland in the late 60s was still very much the Rebel country ( before the troubles began which added more to the hatred )

were we taught this hatred at school ?

Just wondering about others thoughts on this ?

Scoobydoobydoo · 05-12-2008 12:55pm

dbnavan wrote: »

Its silly arguments that can get out of hand, if northern ireland is northern ireland well then obviously the Republic is southern Ireland, has nothing to do with politics or irish vs english, its just simple geography.

This does annoy me a bit to be honest, as obviously the Republic consists of a lot more than the South. I consider the south to be Munster in general. If I'm on the phone to a customer care dept in the UK and they refer to me as being in Southern Ireland, I say no, I'm in in Dublin, which is in the east. Just stating a fact, I don't care what anyone thinks of that. I don't live in the south, simple as that. If I lived in Cork, I wouldn't have anything to say!
If someone mentioned southern Britain, would that be considered to be places such as Cornwall, Devon, Sussex etc. - or the entire countries of England and Wales?

Hagar · 05-12-2008 1:26pm

palomca wrote: »

Additionally, a large part of Irish mythology comes from Ulster.

Indeed it does. But you would do well to remember that it all predates the Plantation of Ulster when the English ran the descendants of those mythological Irish off the land or murdered those who refused to leave and replaced them with Scots. So the heritage you are trying to claim was never yours in the first place.
Go back to Scotland ye cross dressing blackguards.

:D

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-12-2008 1:36pm

Irlbo wrote: »

Its Ireland,not Eire or 'republic' of Ireland,not Southern Ireland',not Northern Ireland,Ireland,we dont have to go by governments and establishment to be told what to call our country,and in regards British Isles,who says they are the British isles,just because some long dead person said so

So instead of what officialdom or some "long dead person" says, we should, instead, take the word of a guy who's postedjust over 100 times in an internet forum as bible...?

dlofnep · 05-12-2008 1:50pm

Saruman wrote: »

Why is having Ireland as one of the "British Isles" misleading? We are a British isle!! We were a British isle before the english came to power on the Island they occupy now. Long before they invaded this Island.
Geographicaly we are, always have been and always will be a British isle.

We are NOT a British Isle. It implies ownership of the Island. The two Islands collectively are Britain & Ireland. British Isle is not only offensive, but outdated. Not once did I ever hear the term "British Isles" in Irish geography. It was always Ireland & Britain.

ibuprofen · 05-12-2008 1:53pm

Saruman wrote: »

Why is having Ireland as one of the "British Isles" misleading? We are a British isle!! We were a British isle before the english came to power on the Island they occupy now. Long before they invaded this Island.
Geographicaly we are, always have been and always will be a British isle.[/quote

NOt quite right ,Britian is one of the Islands, To use the phrase British Isles is incorrect as it denotes ownership, which may have been true a along time ago but not now. You're living in the past.

It has no legal or official status in Ireland and that is unquestionable.

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face=Arial size=2>The introduction of the Folens atlas follows a recent entry on the online encyclopaedia Wikipedia on the term "British Isles" which stated that the phrase could be "confusing and objectionable to some people, particularly in Ireland".

Irlbo · 05-12-2008 1:53pm

asdasd wrote: »

I dont mind the Southern Irish thing. Two things bug me

1) Most English people dont know anything about Potato famines, Penal laws, Cromwell etc. And if they do we should just get over it. The dogs on the street know that Ireland was neutral in WWII.
2) It is fairly common to believe that we Irish are fighting amongst ourselves in Northern Ireland. It is part of the UK. This is rarer but when people ask me what is going on with the Irish problem, I am quick to wonder what is going on with the British problem, in the UK part of the Island i was born into. That can be very confusing to them.

as in

British chap : What is going on with you Irish in Northern Ireland?
Asdasd: what is going on with you British in the UK up there?

I realise this kind of talk will also piss off some northeners.

So your of those fanticists that believe that the North of Ireland is actually a part of Britain?,even though it is an island and as a whole has a unique culture and identidy,it being part of the Uk is due to Britain forcably occupying the North,and hence christening it 'Northern Ireland' as part of UK,but just because they claim so,doesnt make it so

ibuprofen · 05-12-2008 1:57pm

It has no legal or official status in Ireland and that is unquestionable. AS shown below stated by Minister for Foreign affairs Dermot Ahern

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face=Arial size=2>The introduction of the Folens atlas follows a recent entry on the online encyclopaedia Wikipedia on the term "British Isles" which stated that the phrase could be "confusing and objectionable to some people, particularly in Ireland".

dlofnep · 05-12-2008 1:58pm

I'm sure it's been mentioned in this thread already, but the most northern point of Ireland is infact in Donegal. So to refer to the 26 counties as southern Ireland is misleading.

Ireland is Ireland. It has 32 counties.

"Southern" Ireland... do you mean 'Ireland'?

Comments