Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

How do you perceive the overall work of the Gardai

13567

Comments

  • #102
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Bren1609 wrote: »
    I beg to differ. Anyway, fact is they werent disciplined.

    If you believe a company cannot take away your pension then you are wrong. If you think you are right then lets have some examples please.

    Also for those Gardai who resigned in Donegal were publicly disgraced and rightly so and lost their jobs even if they did resign. Is not enough for you though?


  • #103
    Bren1609
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭Bren1609


    Im just pointing out the details.


  • #104
    deadwood
    Registered Users Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    Jesus.
    I come home and it's like mammy and daddy are having a row. (and not the kind of row where, as a young deadwood, I saw mammy trying to bite off daddys not-so-dead wood. hugghhrrgghh)

    Good to see some fresh contributors. I recognise a few of the names of those who log on but don't post.

    It can get a bit clique-ish here, so some fresh opinions are a good way to stimulate debate.


  • #105
    djtechnics1210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭djtechnics1210


    I love to serve next to the heroic members of An Garda Siochana and all the members of ES who do such a hard job for little or no thanks..... there will always be people that want to bash AGS and other ES members though, but these people would never have the courage and bravery to do the job ES members do.


  • #106
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    djtechnics1210 wrote: »
    I love to serve next to the heroic members of An Garda Siochana and all the members of ES who do such a hard job for little or no thanks.
    I thought from your posts you were a member?
    Don't say you're a parking/litter/dog warden or some other wannabe and shatter my illusions. :D

    FWIW I echo your sentiments that the ES personnel are largely unsung heroes who do their utmost to make it safe for the rest of us to go about our daily lives.


  • #107
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    Bren1609 wrote: »
    Im just pointing out the details.

    Incorrectly.

    Gardai pay into a private pension fund. Its got nothing to do with the state and despite public opinion, is not simple handed out. Also despite what you think, no company or agency can remove your pension. Admit when your wrong and your opinions will be given more weight.

    As for simple retiring, the same for any company. If you boss finds you ****ed up you can resign or retire prior to getting sacked. Every worker has the right to leave their employment and every person once their have reached the adequate age/ service are entitled to retire. Should everyone or just Gardai be worked to death?

    In regards little action been taken (your wrong that none was but yes, it was minor). The system in place at the time did not allow for investigations to be taken against retired Gardai for discipline purposes (of course criminal could). Now the Ombudsman and internal affairs can investigate retired Gardai however what exactly do you expect to happen? They have retired, how can any company punish someone that no longer works for them? Deduct his non existent wages? Sack him after he left? Reduce his non existent rank? What?

    Perhaps we should just ignore all workers movements and what they achieved in the past or again, is it just emergency services that should have no rights or protections and be open to public flogging?


  • #108
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    metman wrote: »
    What a stupid, offensive and off-topic question.

    I take that as a no then, you wouldn't report an officer who was actively racist in his/her duties. Bloody typical.
    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    Last time I checked having a racist outlook isnt a crime its a personal opinion. Are we the thought police now as well?

    It should be one of the preconditions before being allowed to serve that you're not actively prejudice.
    I have given Gardai tickets, of course I have. Last time I checked my car didnt have 'Garda's personal car' stamped on it.

    Given your tag line, I'm a bit shocked at that.
    djtechnics1210 wrote: »
    I love to serve next to the heroic members of An Garda Siochana and all the members of ES who do such a hard job for little or no thanks..... there will always be people that want to bash AGS and other ES members though, but these people would never have the courage and bravery to do the job ES members do.

    They get thanked in the form of a pay cheque/ direct debit. If that's not good enough then find another job. I'm sick to the back teeth of the attitude that doing a hard and/or dangerous job deserves some form of special graditude. More people per capita are killed or seriously injured on building sites then in AGS. Next time I see a heroic plumber or plasterer I must thank him for having the courage and bravery to go to work.

    I couldn't hack being a member of AGS. I just couldn't find it in myself to show the level of indifference towards corruption, incompetence and the community I serve, which is clearly required.


  • #109
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    Boston wrote: »
    It should be one of the preconditions before being allowed to serve that you're not actively prejudice.

    So its OK to think it as long as you dont act on it?
    Boston wrote: »
    More people per capita are killed or seriously injured on building sites then in AGS.

    not true, more used to die. Not anymore and Gardai are injured in a far greater rate than builders per head. BTW, do you have anything to support these claims? Can you show me stats on how many builders were injured serving YOU in the past year? How many builders were injured going into a dangerous situation for the benefit of YOU in the past year?
    Boston wrote: »
    never time I see a heroic plumber or plaster I must thank him for having the courage and bravery to go to work.

    Thats not necessary but maybe you should spend more time on the builders and plumpers board telling them how to do their jobs and how lazy and useless they are? Personally I do thank my plumber when he fixes my leak, its called manners.
    Boston wrote: »
    I couldn't hack being a member of AGS.

    The truth shall set you free. No seriously, why dont you join up, at least as a reserve if you dont want to leave you cosy office, and reform us from within? Expose our failings and show us how it should be done by a supercop?


  • #110
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    So its OK to think it as long as you dont act on it?

    Absolutely. People should be free to think and feel whatever way they want and once it doesn't effect their work then it's no else's business. For example, I'm extremely anti drug use but I never let someone's personal recreational habits get in the way of working with them.

    Another example is that I had at least one homophobic teacher in school, who wasn't open about it and he never displayed a bias in class. I only knew due to picking up on an off the cuff comment once. I've huge respect for that man for many reasons despite his flaws. Far more respect for him then the Muppet teachers who came in trying to force his 'positive' attitude towards homosexuality and gay student onto everyone else.

    not true, more used to die. Not anymore and Gardai are injured in a far greater rate than builders per head. BTW, do you have anything to support these claims? Can you show me stats on how many builders were injured serving YOU in the past year? How many builders were injured going into a dangerous situation for the benefit of YOU in the past year?

    I recall looking at stats about 2 years ago which showed the building sector had the highest per capita rate of injuries and deaths over all sectors including the public sector (which AGS would come under). I'll try to find the site for you.

    As for how many where injured, the same number of AGS injured directly serving me.
    Thats not necessary but maybe you should spend more time on the builders and plumpers board telling them how to do their jobs and how lazy and useless they are? Personally I do thank my plumber when he fixes my leak, its called manners.

    Who said lazy? Who said useless? I wouldn't. Also I'm not telling you how to do you job.

    1) Lazy, hmm interesting you should mentioned that. "Its not my job to give a ****" seems to be a common theme with some gardai. Bare minimum to get through the day. Thats a flaw with the civil service though.
    2) Useless, hmm , I've actually got no grudge against the Gardai. I have against vigilantes based on experiences of the late 90s. So I know what a society without a police force is like. Hence I would never say useless.
    why dont you join up, at least as a reserve if you dont want to leave you cosy office, and reform us from within? Expose our failings and show us how it should be done by a supercop?

    Maybe I will! Can I start as a detective?


  • #111
    Bren1609
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭Bren1609


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    Perhaps we should just ignore all workers movements and what they achieved in the past or again, is it just emergency services that should have no rights or protections and be open to public flogging?

    You're hardly suggesting that public sector employees are held more accountable than private sector? You speak of workers movements and employee protection and rights, however non of this was achived by AGS.

    I'm sorry but did the members in question not break the law? Or is it just civilians who are open to prosecution? There were also other involved who were not disciplined at all.


  • Advertisement
  • #112
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    Boston wrote: »
    Absolutely. People should be free to think and feel whatever way they want and once it doesn't effect their work then it's no else's business. For example, I'm extremely anti drug use but I never let someone's personal recreational habits get in the way of working with them.

    well obviously we dont stand around and allow Garda KKK to hang black people. AGS like society does not, thankfully, accept and condone open racism. While people may have the opinion, its rarely manifested in action.
    Boston wrote: »
    I recall looking at statics about 2 years ago which showed the building sector had the highest per capita rate of injuries and deaths over all sectors including the public sector (which AGS would come under). I'll try to find the site for you.
    THose stats were for a period 2 or 3 years previous when that industry was still growing not shrinking and you had a lot of foeign nationals working in it who were either unaware of Irish law or simple used to lower safety and working standards. They were also printed in the papers as it was big news but it led to increased workers rights and safety standards in the sector. Accidents on sites are now rare and deaths even rarer.

    BTW, the number 1 on duty death rate globally are loggers and the number 1 for suicide is doctors. Police globally rank 2nd in both but its feasible that the military is not included nor every nation.

    I think I can put this too bed, at least between you and I. Gardai are doing the best they can with what they have for the most part. Sometimes people dont like how we deal with things (one person thinks wer too lenient and another to tough) but generally were trying.

    Try to remember that we have families. Mothers, daughters, etc. We have friends. We socialise. We live in communities, our children go to school and the local playground (assuming your lucky enough to have a house with one nearby). Do you honestly think we dont care about crime? that we dont care if theres junkies leaving needles in playgrounds or schools? If theres a sex offender out there? Or little ****s terrorising the estates? Of course we do, we worry about crime as much as everyone else

    At times its frustrating because we are in a position to do something positive about this but cant as we must act within the law. Other times we do something but it falls apart for reasons beyond our control.

    Finally, Gardai may seem disinterested or indifferent at times but like doctors, firemen and many many other occupations, ours requires a certain level of mental toughness and shielding to deal with these things everyday. As I said doctors and police are 1st and 2nd for suicide, thats not a coincidence, its because many cant turn off their emotions and get completely consumed by the cases they deal with.

    Imagine being a doctor and seeing young innocent children dying on an almost daily basis? Watching them lose the battle against cancer despite your best efforts? Having to deal with their parents? It would destroy you in no time if you werent able to remove yourself from it.

    Well, I think I have said my bit as best I can.


  • #113
    Paulzx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,978 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    Boston wrote: »




    I recall looking at stats about 2 years ago which showed the building sector had the highest per capita rate of injuries and deaths over all sectors including the public sector (which AGS would come under). I'll try to find the site for you.

    As for how many where injured, the same number of AGS injured directly serving me.




    Since when did the amount of injuries in a proffession become the benchmark in calculating how efficient its workers are. I would be of the opinion that if injury figures are going through the roof that people are in fact not doing their job properly. If Guards are constantly getting hurt on duty there is something wrong with the decision making process. The job is risky and carries inherent risks but it is important to view them ascalculated risks.

    You are probably a person who gives out about Gardai receiving compensation
    for on the job injuries yet you seem to want more of them to get hurt to prove to you that they are doing a good job. Weird


  • #114
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Paulzx wrote: »
    Since when did the amount of injuries in a proffession become the benchmark in calculating how efficient its workers are. I would be of the opinion that if injury figures are going through the roof that people are in fact not doing their job properly. If Guards are constantly getting hurt on duty there is something wrong with the decision making process. The job is risky and carries inherent risks but it is important to view them ascalculated risks.

    You are probably a person who gives out about Gardai receiving compensation
    for on the job injuries yet you seem to want more of them to get hurt to prove to you that they are doing a good job. Weird

    0_o

    Try following an argument from start to conclusion without inserting fiction in the middle. I never mentioned efficiency. Injuries where brought up in relation to how dangerous the job is, no one bar you connected it to efficiency or job ability.

    Of course someone injured either by accident of though the deliberate actions of another, while at work, deserves compensation. I'd go further and say that every possible resource and facility should be made available to help them should they decide to return to work.

    No decent person wishes to see a member of the Gardai injured. No decent person wishes to see anyone injured who is merely doing their job. I resent the implication that I would think differently. Hand on heart I don't trust the organisation as a whole, but if I'd been on Dorset street on Friday night I know which side I would have been standing on.


  • #115
    Terrontress
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    I think what is most interesting in all this is that the people who are speaking out against the Gardai here appear to be literate, lucid and coherent people. People who appear to have gained a decent education. In fact, the grammar and spelling from those speaking out against the Gardai seems much superior than those who have identified themselves as members.

    This is not "scumbags" speaking out as they don't like having their nefarious activities curtailed. It's educated, middle class, law abiding citizens.

    From the outside looking in, it would appear to me that the Gardai have alienated the public by allowing crime to continue in certain sectors while clamping down hard on that middle class law-abiding, hard working sector of society.

    We've all heard the stories on Gerry Ryan of the kids at the Electric Picnic being passed a joint, being arrested and never being able to go to America while people feel unsafe walking along the Dublin quays due to junkies who can operate with impunity.

    Everyone has examples of people having their houses burgled and the Gardai can't come out for two days yet a guard is posted to stand on the N11 and shoot fish in a barrel in issuing speeding fines.

    It's the troublemakers who are expected to cause trouble that are given free reign. Once someone who should know better steps slightly out of line they will be come down upon like a ton of bricks.

    They are likely to be polite in the car and station, likely to plead guilty, not soil themselves and take their punishment like a decent person. And give the Gardai another crime solved statistic.

    I fear the day when I actually need support from a professional policing organisation in Ireland because I can be sure I am not going to get it, if past experience is anything to go by.


  • #116
    deadwood
    Registered Users Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    Terrontress wrote: »
    I think what is most interesting in all this is that the people who are speaking out against the Gardai here appear to be literate, lucid and coherent people. People who appear to have gained a decent education. In fact, the grammar and spelling from those speaking out against the Gardai seems much superior than those who have identified themselves as members.
    Education and Guards in the same sentence, how amusing - port anyone?

    Of course, Brendan Behan was right - guards were lured down from the hills with pieces of raw meat.

    I wouldn't presume to know anything about a persons education based on their posts here. My God, listen to any "professional" and you'll hear plenty of "I seen" and "I done".

    If such information was available, you'd see that a significant proportion of Gardai have completed degrees masters, hdips and so on - before they join.

    Many continue to study in the job. Plenty have a PhD and can do joined writing.

    I can read and you'd hardly see my lips move.

    And as for the poor middle classes, bless.

    Maybe you're right - guards should be policing those nasty working class types and leave the decent middle classes alone. They've made this country what it is after all.

    I find your post patronising, insulting and narrow minded.


  • #117
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    I hope you're not holding me up as an example of someone who can spell!


  • #118
    Jumpy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    I would normally lean to the yes side, but after this thread I am really tempted to vote no.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055374459


  • #119
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I've come across really good gardai who went beyond their job to help people but as an organisation I wouldn't trust them at all, far too many dodgy experiences, and I know far too many people who've had even worse experiences.

    Maybe the ombudsman will curb that over time, who knows.


  • #120
    andrewh5
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭andrewh5


    Here are my thoughts:
    1. Too much time spent on speeding duties yet no patrols on the motorways.
    2. No enforcement of the unaccompanied driving law.
    3. A 'we can do what we want attitude' A garda recently got shocked when I told him to put his seat belt on or I would report him.
    4. Arrogance and stand offishness from the gard on duty when going into a garda station to ask for advice.


  • Advertisement
  • #121
    djtechnics1210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭djtechnics1210


    andrewh5 wrote: »
    Here are my thoughts:
    1. Too much time spent on speeding duties yet no patrols on the motorways.
    2. No enforcement of the unaccompanied driving law.
    3. A 'we can do what we want attitude' A garda recently got shocked when I told him to put his seat belt on or I would report him.
    4. Arrogance and stand offishness from the gard on duty when going into a garda station to ask for advice.

    Exempt from seatbelts


  • #122
    andrewh5
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭andrewh5


    djtechnics1210 wrote: »
    Exempt from seatbelts

    Not as far as I am aware. If they are it is bloody stupid. They will die the same as anyone else not wearing them.


  • #123
    djtechnics1210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭djtechnics1210


    andrewh5 wrote: »
    Not as far as I am aware. If they are it is bloody stupid. They will die the same as anyone else not wearing them.

    Army dont have seat belts in their trucks either


  • #124
    andrewh5
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭andrewh5


    djtechnics1210 wrote: »
    Army dont have seat belts in their trucks either

    And soldiers have been killed because of it.


  • #125
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Thats because the equipment is outdated. Any new trucks they buy have to meet new safety standards which require harness type support.


  • #126
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    andrewh5 wrote: »
    Here are my thoughts:
    1. Too much time spent on speeding duties yet no patrols on the motorways.
    2. No enforcement of the unaccompanied driving law.
    3. A 'we can do what we want attitude' A garda recently got shocked when I told him to put his seat belt on or I would report him.
    4. Arrogance and stand offishness from the gard on duty when going into a garda station to ask for advice.

    Gardai are exempt from wearing seatbelts. So they are not breaking the law by not wearing one.

    Who would you have reported him too for not wearing his seat belt?? Seeing as he was not breaking the law? Just a thought but maybe you should have minded your own business if you do not know the law.


  • Advertisement
  • #127
    andrewh5
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭andrewh5


    Chief--- wrote: »
    Gardai are exempt from wearing seatbelts. So they are not breaking the law by not wearing one.

    Who would you have reported him too for not wearing his seat belt?? Seeing as he was not breaking the law? Just a thought but maybe you should have minded your own business if you do not know the law.

    Just a thought but perhaps I was concerned he would be seriously injured through his own stupidity!

    My guess is that somewhere in their regulations they have a requirement to wear seat belts regardless of what the law says they can do.

    99.9% of gardaí DO wear their seat belts.


  • #128
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Depending on whatever duty they are on a garda may weigh up the risks against the possible result and decide he might be able to do the duty quicker and with a better result being unrestrained by a seatbelt.

    You will never know what duty he is doing so it might be better to just mind your own business. He could be sneaking up on a suspect, about to jump out and smash the windows of a stolen car..... the possibilities are endless.

    Or if you like pointing out to people that they are not wearing their seatbelt maybe a job in the gardai is for you. Or maybe the garda reserve if you are already happy in your career.


  • #129
    the locust
    Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭the locust


    Too much time spent on speeding duties? Not in my area that covers 200000 people.... haven't seen speed checks done in ages...

    Not enforcing unaccompanied driver law? People will have thier reasons and i understand that this is new to the Irish republic this law, but I just summonsed a rake of people for that and i wasn't tryin... Loads of our station does the same.

    We have excellent drivers on our unit, and i trust them daily, i confess i only wear my belt when blue lightin somewhere...

    andrewh5 where do you get the 99.9% statistic from? I doubt that.

    We are exempt under the Road Traffic Act and for good reason. You may never know what its like to have a hostile prisoner in the vehicle who has for example infectious diseases and you cant afford to be strapped down when you may have to restrain him at a moments notice. I may need to exit the vehicle in a hurry for a range of reasons as Chief stated...

    That said i do recognise that seatbelts save lives. I do wear a belt when sirens are on, because the risk of crashing into some eejit who's never bothered to pass his test or some ol'biddy who can't hear the siren, the chances of crash increase dramatically when blue lights are on.

    Please dont think we are arrogant or we can do what we want, there are good reasons for such...


  • #130
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Yes i trust them to a degree......But as a force they are useless, wouldn't even bother to ring them if i was a victim of crime.

    No matter what people say about their dangerous driving, on mobile phones constantly, and not dealing with scum who rule our streets i.e( the 50 or so members hiding behind their vehicles in dorset street the other night) they always have an excuse.

    I know safety is a massive issue, but there is more people killed and injured on Building Sites than in the whole of the Gardai, fire service, ambulances, prison officers put together, just get on with the job lads stop making Excuses because us the public are sick of them.

    OK next time you are on dorset street late at night, put yourself in a gardas boots. You are armed with little more then an extendable stick. You do nit have riot police readily available. Drunken scumbags in this country are known to be ruthless, walk up to them and get a bottle accross your face, as soon as that happens your down on the ground, everything kicks off. The girlfriends then come in screaming their knickers off because other gardai are trying to arrest their boyfriends.

    Pokerface your comments about more people getting killed on building sites is well and good, but knowing that your job involves getting a broken eye socket or a broken elbow cannot be of any comfort.

    Your post frankly disgusts me beecause you have blatently mis read the situation that you outlined in your post.

    What else is there to do but hide behind a van?


  • #131
    eroo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    Terrontress wrote: »
    From the outside looking in, it would appear to me that the Gardai have alienated the public by allowing crime to continue in certain sectors while clamping down hard on that middle class law-abiding, hard working sector of society.

    Oh yes, because all those marked and unmarked cars, Gardai on bikes, Community Gardai on foot, Gardai on horses, that Garda helicopter, those RSU/ERU patrols and the CAB profilers hang around ''middle class law-abiding'' peoples houses on a regular basis.:rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • #132
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Everyone take a deep breath now and relax.

    There are too many people posting in what may appear a slightly aggressive manner and are getting equally aggressive posts from members back.

    If you have an experience or question please post in a civilised manner.

    Members I also expect a civilised response from ye too.

    Lets keep this debate going in a proper manner so we can all benefit from it.

    Thanks

    TheNog


  • #133
    pokerface_me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭pokerface_me


    donvito99 wrote: »
    OK next time you are on dorset street late at night, put yourself in a gardas boots. You are armed with little more then an extendable stick. You do nit have riot police readily available. Drunken scumbags in this country are known to be ruthless, walk up to them and get a bottle accross your face, as soon as that happens your down on the ground, everything kicks off. The girlfriends then come in screaming their knickers off because other gardai are trying to arrest their boyfriends.

    Pokerface your comments about more people getting killed on building sites is well and good, but knowing that your job involves getting a broken eye socket or a broken elbow cannot be of any comfort.

    Your post frankly disgusts me beecause you have blatently mis read the situation that you outlined in your post.

    What else is there to do but hide behind a van?


    Donvito, i assume you are a Garda and i feel for you guys , you do a thankless job with little or no job satisfaction i.e scum back on the streets hours after been arrested.

    My situation and the Dorset street example is. 50 members behind a van and a public order unit should be more than capable of dealing with 30 stone throwing scumbags i know you worry about your safety, but what about my safety the public's???????????
    Now from someone looking from the outside in at this incident, it doesn't make sense.

    When you decided your profession, did you not know what you were getting into, because you The Gardai don't seem to be capable of dealing with anti-social behaviour at any level, because of safety issue's i'm sure.

    My final line on the subject is, no one wants to see anybody killed or hurt doing there job, i have 2 young girls waiting for me at home everyday, but if your going to do a job, do it properly or don't do it at all.

    And if you read back from the first post to the last, yes there is always an excuse, wish my boss was as understanding.


  • #134
    pokerface_me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭pokerface_me


    Chief--- wrote: »
    Gardai are exempt from wearing seatbelts. So they are not breaking the law by not wearing one.

    Who would you have reported him too for not wearing his seat belt?? Seeing as he was not breaking the law? Just a thought but maybe you should have minded your own business if you do not know the law.

    Maybe if you practiced what you preach people wouldn't be so hostile towards you. Whats the big deal about pulling your seatbelt on, takes 2 seconds no big deal, and might safe your life.

    But your answer is mind your own business?? Must remember that one next time i'm stopped at a checkpoint. Where are you going son? I'm not breaking the law so mind your own business.

    Nog i know what your thinking, but this above comment has every relevance to the Question you are asking in this debate, its the Gardai's bad attitude to Joe Bloggs.


  • #135
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Neither Donvito or Chief are serving members.

    I disagree with you when you say we cannot deal with public order incidents. We deal with 100's of public order incident each week across the country but we are assuming that this particular incident on Dorset St may have been too serious to deal with with by uniform members. Or maybe the 50 Gardai were regrouping for another or first strike against them or waiting for back up from the public order unit as has already been said. It maybe worthy to note that 10 of these 30 people were arrested though.

    Does not tell you the incident was dealt with?


  • #136
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    TheNog wrote: »
    Neither Donvito or Chief are serving members.

    I disagree with you when you say we cannot deal with public order incidents. We deal with 100's of public order incident each week across the country but we are assuming that this particular incident on Dorset St may have been too serious to deal with with by uniform members. Or maybe the 50 Gardai were regrouping for another or first strike against them or waiting for back up from the public order unit as has already been said. It maybe worthy to note that 10 of these 30 people were arrested though.

    Does not tell you the incident was dealt with?

    I don't know all the details. But most people I know would (I presume) think that if 30 hoods rioted in front of 50 gardai, then most of them should have been caught. Not just 1/3.


  • #137
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    I don't know all the details. But most people I know would (I presume) think that if 30 hoods rioted in front of 50 gardai, then most of them should have been caught. Not just 1/3.


    To be fair Tallaght, in various situations over the years I have had to restraint a few people, 1/3 sounds quite reasonable to me. Unless you are going to go in very hard and heavy it can take two to three people to restraint a person in a safe and reasonable manner. If they were to go in that heavy there would more than likely be cries of foul.


  • #138
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Donvito, i assume you are a Garda and i feel for you guys , you do a thankless job with little or no job satisfaction i.e scum back on the streets hours after been arrested.

    My situation and the Dorset street example is. 50 members behind a van and a public order unit should be more than capable of dealing with 30 stone throwing scumbags i know you worry about your safety, but what about my safety the public's???????????
    Now from someone looking from the outside in at this incident, it doesn't make sense.

    When you decided your profession, did you not know what you were getting into, because you The Gardai don't seem to be capable of dealing with anti-social behaviour at any level, because of safety issue's i'm sure.

    My final line on the subject is, no one wants to see anybody killed or hurt doing there job, i have 2 young girls waiting for me at home everyday, but if your going to do a job, do it properly or don't do it at all.

    And if you read back from the first post to the last, yes there is always an excuse, wish my boss was as understanding.


    I am not a garda. Sorry if I came across as one. I got a bit hot under the collar there. I appreciate what you are and were trying to say, sorry for the misunderstanding.

    Matt


  • #139
    the locust
    Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭the locust


    I think i heard that they (the guards that were 'hiding' behind cars) had been told to hold off by an officer and wait for further instruction/public order units.

    To be honest if an affray goes to a riot - you have to meet that situation with a proportionate response
    - 50 independantly operating police with asps would cause more chaos and trouble. Its safer to use the more organised for the job - public order unit. Don't forget the city centre is riddled with cctv too.

    The Gardai know all to well who those people are and the '1/3' that got arrested will rat on thier mates guaranteed.


  • #140
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    As far as I am aware there is a public order unit, but it is more along the
    lines of this...66068.jpg

    And heres another pick...66069.jpg

    Were going a bit off topic here people.


  • #141
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Odysseus wrote: »
    To be fair Tallaght, in various situations over the years I have had to restraint a few people, 1/3 sounds quite reasonable to me. Unless you are going to go in very hard and heavy it can take two to three people to restraint a person in a safe and reasonable manner. If they were to go in that heavy there would more than likely be cries of foul.


    But 50 gardai? Catching just 10 rioters?

    Now, in fairness, I know nothing about policing. I'm just commenting on the way that comes across.


  • Advertisement
  • #142
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    I thought it was 30 yobs.

    No wait, 50 scumbags and 30 gardai...

    I'm genuinely confused now!


  • #143
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    But 50 gardai? Catching just 10 rioters?

    Now, in fairness, I know nothing about policing. I'm just commenting on the way that comes across.

    I see your point but how many times have you seen three or four people trying to contain one person who doesn't want to be cotained. I'm just merely saying that its harder to get some to do something if the are really determined not to. I sure your have seen it yourself within a hospital environment how much havok one determined person can cause.


  • #144
    pokerface_me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭pokerface_me


    In fairness to the Gardai its 10 less scum off the street if even only for that night, they should be commended for that, because this has been the first mention of any arrests.

    Nog maybe you should look at a new thread, this one has gone way off course, but keep the debate going, i've really got a good insight into a Gardai's life in the last 72 hours, its help to educate me on the daily difficulties they face and changed my perception towards them in a positive manner.


  • #145
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Ask yourself, would you have got that insight without free ranging debate?
    I thought the debate was great. Both sides sounded off but both sides learned something. That wouldn't have been possible without the leeway allowed by the mods. Personally it think it was very worthwhile.


  • #146
    pokerface_me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭pokerface_me


    Hagar wrote: »
    Ask yourself, would you have got that insight without free ranging debate?
    I thought the debate was great. Both sides sounded off but both sides learned something. That wouldn't have been possible without the leeway allowed by the mods. Personally it think it was very worthwhile.

    100% agree, excellent moderation well done guys.


  • #147
    Terrontress
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    eroo wrote: »
    Oh yes, because all those marked and unmarked cars, Gardai on bikes, Community Gardai on foot, Gardai on horses, that Garda helicopter, those RSU/ERU patrols and the CAB profilers hang around ''middle class law-abiding'' peoples houses on a regular basis.:rolleyes:

    Nope, they don't but what about the examples I have given about junkies selling heroin with immunity along the quays?

    What about people begging in the streets?

    What about stone-throwers and people setting bonfires?

    I have experience of a Garda being so disinterested in dealing with a crime that he invented a murder. I agreed with him that my broken-into car was unimportant and let him get on his way. Lo and behold, no murders in the news.

    We all know what manpower is being put into speeders. The teams of Gardai who go to music festivals to try to infiltrate student types smoking cannabis.

    I can't think of the last time I have seen community Gardai on foot. The only place I've seen them on foot is Dublin city centre. Even then, Grafton Street seems to be patrolled mainly by a Mondeo which I'm sure the occupants are more concerned in getting the pedestrians to move over.

    No idea what the helicopter does. Horses? Only ever seen them on Henry Street. And what would happen if someone snatched a bag and ran into the Ilac? Break into a canter through the mall?

    The force is failing the majority of law abiding people and letting the criminals get away with it.

    As I've said, the normally law-abiding will come quietly, be more compliant, show remorse, plead guilty and give a crime-solved statistic.

    Pathetic.


  • #148
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    andrewh5 wrote: »
    Just a thought but perhaps I was concerned he would be seriously injured through his own stupidity!

    or perhaps you were so sick of being caught breaking the law you thought you could get one up on the Garda.

    I know you pay their wages and all but come on ;)


  • #149
    brayblue24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭brayblue24


    Terrontress wrote: »
    What about people begging in the streets?

    I have experience of a Garda being so disinterested in dealing with a crime that he invented a murder. I agreed with him that my broken-into car was unimportant and let him get on his way. Lo and behold, no murders in the news.

    Firstly, there are no laws in this country outlawing begging-the courts kindly removed them. If you are going to apportion blame at least find the facts first and then point your finger of blame in the right direction.

    .....and secondly,?????

    (ps as a serving Garda I did not vote).


  • #150
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    But 50 gardai? Catching just 10 rioters?

    Now, in fairness, I know nothing about policing. I'm just commenting on the way that comes across.

    As a public order trained officer, the role of a public order unit is not to arrest those engaged in a public order incident, though this is often a by-product, the primary role is the restoration of public order (the clue is in the title). Post incident when order has been restored a detailed investigation commences and the agitators usually receive rude awakenings at silly o'clock when their front door is put in and they are arrested for whatever offences they have disclosed on the day.

    Its not rocket science as if you use up your public order troops in effecting arrests you quickly lose your pubic order capability.

    Just because a fraction were arrested on the day is not to say the remainder won't be rounded up over the coming months.

    Primary goal = restoration of order.
    Secondary goal = arrest & prosecution of offenders.


  • Advertisement
  • #151
    brayblue24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭brayblue24


    Terrontress wrote: »
    I can't think of the last time I have seen community Gardai on foot. The only place I've seen them on foot is Dublin city centre. Pathetic.

    I was on the beat every evening last week-yes, depsite the weather. I was not out yesterday or today due to my being on rest days but I will be on shanks mare tomorrow, or on the bike don't know yet-and while I am stationed in Dublin it is nowhere near Grafton Street!!


Advertisement