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*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*
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Havent read any of the thread so presume all this has been covered already but any way here goes
We walked Kilkenny to the cliff edge and instead of throwing them off we shot ourselves in the foot...twice. The total naivety in defence cost us both goals and the match. Larkins one was the more obvious from the stupid free from DOG to the ridicuously slack marking in defence (were we actually playing a fcuking zonal defence in a hurling match FFS) how was larkin get a run on with 12 mins to go in an All Ireland semi.
Richie hogan was given the run of the field in the first half, Browne consistently backed on breen winning every puck out and attacked the space, when buckley won the ball, hogan was left in space. Consistently we were on the wrong side of hogan, our midfield was too far forward and left our half back line totally exposed.
A totally incoherent subs policy and a lack of depth here cost us, 3 of our subs would not have been brought on in any circumstances so you have to wonder why, dempsey and dromin athlacca player who's name escapes me werent involved. Certainly dempsey would have been more comfortable in the tom condon role, tom should only play orthodox corner back.
First thing for next year is to get nicky out of goals, we have two excellent keepers in murphy and hennessey and Nicky can be tried at half back. POB needs to be moved out of half back, there are plenty of players able to fill in and we need a bench option to come in off the bench. Just move downes to half forward, watch him play CF for Na P for the rest of the year.
Disappointing to leave that behind us and there's no point standing still we have to improve for next year, the players are there its up to management to select and get the best out of them.
Have said all year that the minor all ireland was the one to win this year and id be happy with that, will be very tough against a good KK side but they should do it.0 -
There were question marks over TJ and his usage of subs to be fair but to be honest that can be attributed to a lack of depth more than anything else. Most counties don't have the luxury of a Kilkenny standard bench- full of players who will have a positive impact.
We have two or three who usually make an impact and outside that we're basically rolling the dice when we throw a sub on. John Allen had his critics but questionable and all as his selection policy was he ensured that he had players on the bench he knew would make an impact.
I would agree that a few moments of naivety in defense cost us but Kilkenny punished those mistakes, had we been a bit cuter at the other end we could have similarly punished a few moments of naivety on Kilkenny's part at the back. But they had that extra bit of cuteness and luck (I don't mean to take away from them by using the word luck; in general teams make their own luck) in front of both their and our goalposts; otherwise there was nothing in that game. But whatever way you look at it, Kilkenny deserved it in the end.0 -
Totally agree with paddy above. It looks like the panel will be seriously bolstered in two year time but needs more depth from next year.
Next year will be a big test of this management team. Three main aims IMO: improve defensive unit, develop a bench to bring in, improve forwards interplay with a view to scoring goals an translating periods of dominance to higher scores. Beary in interviews prior to kk game alluded to forward movement improving so this is clearly something he is aware of and working on, next year will show if he has the capability to get this right (he certainly has some top forwards to work with).
The main thing for me will be to see the management giving some players a decent chance to stake a claim to start in their natural positions. Starting the same half back line all league again for example will show a lack of ambition, imagination, and ability on behalf of the management.
I already outlined a team above that I think is arguably a better 15 than what we started this year and would leave us with Walsh, king, Ryan, Paudie, Allis, dodge, Tobin as subs. That's decent cover if the backs are in trouble and Ryan, Paudie, Dodge and Tobin should be sprung from 50 mins on as a matter of course.
Having subs that can come in and perform coming early enough before starting players have run themselves into the ground is crucial these days. That, plus a bit more development of our forward play would give us that 5% improvement that would have got us over the line v kk.0 -
glasagusban wrote: »To conclude from my post above, I'd like the team next year to look something like:
Quaid
Dempsey (Walsh, King, Carmody as options/cover)
Richie
Condon
Wayne
Hickey
Gavin (wing cover: T Ryan, Morrissey, Paudie)
Browne (impact sub: Paudie)
J Ryan (i.sub: T Ryan)
Breen (i.sub: Dodge)
Downes/Hannon
Hannon/Downes (cover/sub: Reidy/Allis)
Mulcahy
Dowling
O'Brien/C Lynch/Tobin/Fitzgibbon
That's arguably a stronger team than this year with at least four subs up to the level of coming in from 50 mins on and making an impact.
Absolutely, and the club c'ship needs to be thralled for any other players aswell surely doon are going to contribute a couple of players, i cant agree that the depth isnt there. There's 25 players there good enough to win the AI, mon ta fcuk management. Id move nicky out of goals on your team above.0 -
Watched first half there again and what was obvious before and on the day cost us. Condon had a disaster conceding 2 terrible frees and being ineffective, dempsey was available to play that roll or bring DOG back and pull downes out to half, cant agree that the depth wasnt there. POB was cleaned out. And the lack of protection for our half back line was shocking, if someone had stood the right side of richie hogan for the game KK would barely have registered a score, desperate stuff. Im going to go outside for a while before watching the 2nd half.0
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paddy no 11 wrote: »Watched first half there again and what was obvious before and on the day cost us. Condon had a disaster conceding 2 terrible frees and being ineffective, dempsey was available to play that roll or bring DOG back and pull downes out to half, cant agree that the depth wasnt there. POB was cleaned out. And the lack of protection for our half back line was shocking, if someone had stood the right side of richie hogan for the game KK would barely have registered a score, desperate stuff. Im going to go outside for a while before watching the 2nd half.
Half time is getting longer and longer0 -
Sorted out our midfield issues at HT and totally dominated before reaching for the Hari kiri button, some terrible defending there and management just cant send out that same defence next year.
Come on the minors in 3 weeks.0 -
I said it before yesterdays match, Limerick have to get out of division 1B and that Cork V Clare last year was an aberration on the norm. You will get competitive games in 1B but not against the best and it is against the best you must judge yourself. By all accounts Limerick have some fine prospects coming along especially at minor. Limerick have no choice next year but to play in 1B but the current minors wont be ready next year, but they should start to make their presence felt the year after. Let the young lads compete through out the league against the very best. Teams will not be as fit as for championship but skill is a constant and for these young Limerick lads to test themselves against the Kilkenny's and Tipp's and others and to learn the tricks at the highest levels is paramount for the future development of this Limerick team. No matter who else is in 1B, you will not be competing against the very best and will learn very little. Limerick should be playing Kilkenny every year and not just once every so often, 3 times I believe in 7 years is just not enough. Promotion is far more important I believe than winning next years Munster championship, if Limerick want to reach the ultimate summit.1A no matter what anyone says is very competitive and teams have to compete at the highest levels to avoid the dreaded drop. These five games and not the quarter, semi or finals are the breeding ground for most successful championship teams. Kilkenny and Tipp have proved t this over the past ten years, and for other less successful counties to maintain that Div 1A status is not a very important cog in the wheel of success is nonsense.0
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paddy no 11 wrote: »Havent read any of the thread so presume all this has been covered already but any way here goes
We walked Kilkenny to the cliff edge and instead of throwing them off we shot ourselves in the foot...twice. The total naivety in defence cost us both goals and the match. Larkins one was the more obvious from the stupid free from DOG to the ridicuously slack marking in defence (were we actually playing a fcuking zonal defence in a hurling match FFS) how was larkin get a run on with 12 mins to go in an All Ireland semi.
Richie hogan was given the run of the field in the first half, Browne consistently backed on breen winning every puck out and attacked the space, when buckley won the ball, hogan was left in space. Consistently we were on the wrong side of hogan, our midfield was too far forward and left our half back line totally exposed.
A totally incoherent subs policy and a lack of depth here cost us, 3 of our subs would not have been brought on in any circumstances so you have to wonder why, dempsey and dromin athlacca player who's name escapes me werent involved. Certainly dempsey would have been more comfortable in the tom condon role, tom should only play orthodox corner back.
First thing for next year is to get nicky out of goals, we have two excellent keepers in murphy and hennessey and Nicky can be tried at half back. POB needs to be moved out of half back, there are plenty of players able to fill in and we need a bench option to come in off the bench. Just move downes to half forward, watch him play CF for Na P for the rest of the year.
Disappointing to leave that behind us and there's no point standing still we have to improve for next year, the players are there its up to management to select and get the best out of them.
Have said all year that the minor all ireland was the one to win this year and id be happy with that, will be very tough against a good KK side but they should do it.
You're probably a bit harsher than most have been, but you're right. We're going to have to be harsh on ourselves if we want to go that extra yard further and win... that game was there for the taking.
I think you made the point about Condon in another post, it was madness leaving him on for that long. Condon is a fine hurler, but he was marking no one, coming out around midfield... that is not what he's good at. Of the 2 starting corner-backs, Hickey is clearly the one you want in that position. But with Hickey doing a great job defensively, take off Condon and stick Cathal King on (I don't think Dempsey was on the bench). But Dempsey is a lovely hurler and a fine corner-back and the lack of use of him this year was shocking really... I know he was involved with NaP and that disrupted his league but he's a class act.
Agree on moving Nicky out too, at least try him. Murphy is a fine keeper. Do we know that Nicky will definitely be up to outfield at intercounty level? Probably not... but he's definitely a more natural half-back than Paudie. But I'd be moving Hickey into that line too.zombieHanalei wrote: »There were question marks over TJ and his usage of subs to be fair but to be honest that can be attributed to a lack of depth more than anything else. Most counties don't have the luxury of a Kilkenny standard bench- full of players who will have a positive impact.
We have two or three who usually make an impact and outside that we're basically rolling the dice when we throw a sub on. John Allen had his critics but questionable and all as his selection policy was he ensured that he had players on the bench he knew would make an impact.
I would agree that a few moments of naivety in defense cost us but Kilkenny punished those mistakes, had we been a bit cuter at the other end we could have similarly punished a few moments of naivety on Kilkenny's part at the back. But they had that extra bit of cuteness and luck (I don't mean to take away from them by using the word luck; in general teams make their own luck) in front of both their and our goalposts; otherwise there was nothing in that game. But whatever way you look at it, Kilkenny deserved it in the end.
There is a certain amount of truth in the slowness of our subs costing us... I think John Allen was too slow making subs too. Breen & Dodge should have been taken off earlier this year, Condon as already mentioned... and I know Gavin did well against KK, but the whole half-back line are too loose as markers... a mis-firing KK won that game because their half-forwards found space easily in the 1st half. Even one really tough, sticky half-back would be a help.
But we also have a lack of forward options on the bench, Niall Moran wasn't the answer. Tobin is one player, and he's fine. Tom Ryan isn't a half-forward really, I suppose he can do a job but that's it. We need to find at least 2 more forwards for next year, if not more.glasagusban wrote: »Totally agree with paddy above. It looks like the panel will be seriously bolstered in two year time but needs more depth from next year.
Next year will be a big test of this management team. Three main aims IMO: improve defensive unit, develop a bench to bring in, improve forwards interplay with a view to scoring goals an translating periods of dominance to higher scores. Beary in interviews prior to kk game alluded to forward movement improving so this is clearly something he is aware of and working on, next year will show if he has the capability to get this right (he certainly has some top forwards to work with).
The main thing for me will be to see the management giving some players a decent chance to stake a claim to start in their natural positions. Starting the same half back line all league again for example will show a lack of ambition, imagination, and ability on behalf of the management.
I already outlined a team above that I think is arguably a better 15 than what we started this year and would leave us with Walsh, king, Ryan, Paudie, Allis, dodge, Tobin as subs. That's decent cover if the backs are in trouble and Ryan, Paudie, Dodge and Tobin should be sprung from 50 mins on as a matter of course.
Having subs that can come in and perform coming early enough before starting players have run themselves into the ground is crucial these days. That, plus a bit more development of our forward play would give us that 5% improvement that would have got us over the line v kk.
Agree with all that.paddy no 11 wrote: »Absolutely, and the club c'ship needs to be thralled for any other players aswell surely doon are going to contribute a couple of players, i cant agree that the depth isnt there. There's 25 players there good enough to win the AI, mon ta fcuk management. Id move nicky out of goals on your team above.
Doon have some fine players... Cathal Mc was given a bit of a shot this year, but I'd give him one more go. Probably too late for Dinny Moloney, although he's a fine wing-back and has done well at intercounty level before.
Richie English will be in the squad, a very promising back. Don't know if Mike Fitz, Dean Coleman, Darragh O'Donovan, Niall Maher, Pat Ryan will be given a shot. Donovan will be a good player but maybe a bit young atm.0 -
savannahkat wrote: »I said it before yesterdays match, Limerick have to get out of division 1B and that Cork V Clare last year was an aberration on the norm. You will get competitive games in 1B but not against the best and it is against the best you must judge yourself. By all accounts Limerick have some fine prospects coming along especially at minor. Limerick have no choice next year but to play in 1B but the current minors wont be ready next year, but they should start to make their presence felt the year after. Let the young lads compete through out the league against the very best. Teams will not be as fit as for championship but skill is a constant and for these young Limerick lads to test themselves against the Kilkenny's and Tipp's and others and to learn the tricks at the highest levels is paramount for the future development of this Limerick team. No matter who else is in 1B, you will not be competing against the very best and will learn very little. Limerick should be playing Kilkenny every year and not just once every so often, 3 times I believe in 7 years is just not enough. Promotion is far more important I believe than winning next years Munster championship, if Limerick want to reach the ultimate summit.1A no matter what anyone says is very competitive and teams have to compete at the highest levels to avoid the dreaded drop. These five games and not the quarter, semi or finals are the breeding ground for most successful championship teams. Kilkenny and Tipp have proved t this over the past ten years, and for other less successful counties to maintain that Div 1A status is not a very important cog in the wheel of success is nonsense.
That has all been written on here before and i agree with it, but frankly we should be looking to win the AI and 1B next year. If we do win 1B we should be targetting a league final to get the extra match.
I think patrickswell have been sensible with lynch and he's not starting at senior (or as sub i think) the fella has been allowed prioritise the minor AI, hats off to the well in that regard. Its a big call as to whether he should be a bench option next year, id wait to see how he goes at u-21 and bring him as a corner forward bench option for the seniors, his awareness and ability is whats needed with 10 to go.0 -
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paddy no 11 wrote: »That has all been written on here before and i agree with it, but frankly we should be looking to win the AI and 1B next year. If we do win 1B we should be targetting a league final to get the extra match.
I think patrickswell have been sensible with lynch and he's not starting at senior (or as sub i think) the fella has been allowed prioritise the minor AI, hats off to the well in that regard. Its a big call as to whether he should be a bench option next year, id wait to see how he goes at u-21 and bring him as a corner forward bench option for the seniors, his awareness and ability is whats needed with 10 to go.
I know there was a certain amount of controversy in the Well that he was training full-time for the Limerick U-21s but wasn't playing for the Well seniors during his Leaving Cert.
I'd bring him in tbh, he did well for the 21s this year on a day where we were beaten up. He'll do well wherever you play him... the only thing about having him at corner-forward is that you don't get the benefit of him winning breaking ball, which he is so good at. But he's also a natural scorer.
I think that if Austin Gleeson was good enough this year, and Hannon & Dowling were good enough; and Noel McGrath and there are others... then he is too. He's not a small guy. He mightn't be the same standout that he is at minor (he clearly won't be), but he'll hold his own and will be an option. I don't think we can afford to not have him in the squad if we want to win an All-Ireland next year. Should be in the league squad at least.0 -
Fireball, these are amateur players so anything i say is meant to be constructive criticism, they deserve huge credit, but if your going to make that effort why not do it properly and get the rewards for all your effort. The problems that cost the game have been highlighted on here and a management team should be able to sort them out. We've criticised the half back line all year and it cost us not going through it all again. The condon thing was highlighted but management repeated the mistake. I highlighted breens head down routine after the wexford game and when had his chance sunday he never got his head up and hit the ball straight at herrity, a goal would have won it for us.
Then there was the decision to push the midfield forward on sunday, we know it was a tactic because it changed at half time, madness, honestly who thought it would be a good idea to give richie hogan the freedom of the park.0 -
Fireball07 wrote: »I know there was a certain amount of controversy in the Well that he was training full-time for the Limerick U-21s but wasn't playing for the Well seniors during his Leaving Cert.
I'd bring him in tbh, he did well for the 21s this year on a day where we were beaten up. He'll do well wherever you play him... the only thing about having him at corner-forward is that you don't get the benefit of him winning breaking ball, which he is so good at. But he's also a natural scorer.
I think that if Austin Gleeson was good enough this year, and Hannon & Dowling were good enough; and Noel McGrath and there are others... then he is too. He's not a small guy. He mightn't be the same standout that he is at minor (he clearly won't be), but he'll hold his own and will be an option. I don't think we can afford to not have him in the squad if we want to win an All-Ireland next year. Should be in the league squad at least.
Yeah, the well arent going to win the county so its a great decision to priortise the u-21 minor, well done to whoever made that decision, i agree have him in the squad, not sure id have him for the league but wouldnt be set against it either..........definitely agree he has to be a bench option for next summer.0 -
paddy no 11 wrote: »That has all been written on here before and i agree with it, but frankly we should be looking to win the AI and 1B next year. If we do win 1B we should be targetting a league final to get the extra match.
I think patrickswell have been sensible with lynch and he's not starting at senior (or as sub i think) the fella has been allowed prioritise the minor AI, hats off to the well in that regard. Its a big call as to whether he should be a bench option next year, id wait to see how he goes at u-21 and bring him as a corner forward bench option for the seniors, his awareness and ability is whats needed with 10 to go.
I agree with you 100% about targeting both promotion and the AI. The point I am making is that Kilkenny were battle hardened and Limerick were not last Sunday week. It was the difference between winning and losing. A lot of Kilkennys battle hardness is developed during the league competing against the best and throwing in players to see if they can handle it against the best. Championship time is for disgarding those who could not and fine tuning those who could into the overall set up. You wont develop the same hardness competing in Div1B.0 -
paddy no 11 wrote: »Fireball, these are amateur players so anything i say is meant to be constructive criticism, they deserve huge credit, but if your going to make that effort why not do it properly and get the rewards for all your effort. The problems that cost the game have been highlighted on here and a management team should be able to sort them out. We've criticised the half back line all year and it cost us not going through it all again. The condon thing was highlighted but management repeated the mistake. I highlighted breens head down routine after the wexford game and when had his chance sunday he never got his head up and hit the ball straight at herrity, a goal would have won it for us.
Then there was the decision to push the midfield forward on sunday, we know it was a tactic because it changed at half time, madness, honestly who thought it would be a good idea to give richie hogan the freedom of the park.
I think that's all fair enough. We must learn from those mistakes. One more addition to the coaching team would be good, somebody astute & experienced who can assist TJ on the sideline...
He does have us playing a good style, that is getting the best out of our best players. It wasn't TJ's fault that Downes had a poor game. He could have played him at half-forward, but when Downes has a bad day, he hits awful wides. Getting Hannon playing like he did & Dowling/Mulcahy too is what we've been looking for for years. Our midfield are very good. Our half-back line is a bit too loose and that has to be solved.
We appointed our management team very late for this year though. TJ now has a whole off-season to prepare, to scour the county for players, to set plans in motion. 3 years is probably longer than I'd have given him! I'd probably have said 2... but I suppose you can't fault the County Board for backing him now. I wasn't overly happy with his appointment but he's done well... and he does have class; he's passionate and he holds himself very well in the public eye. But a nice guy doesn't always win the prize... let's hope he can.0 -
I think we played the same half back line for 10 games this year with cathal mac getting 2 waterford crystal games, thats lunacy, esp when at no point were any of those players too good to drop, in fact they should have been. Dodgy, morrissey, tomas ryan, quaid or cathal mac could all have been tried or given another shot in mac's case.0
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paddy no 11 wrote: »Yeah, the well arent going to win the county so its a great decision to priortise the u-21 minor, well done to whoever made that decision, i agree have him in the squad, not sure id have him for the league but wouldnt be set against it either..........definitely agree he has to be a bench option for next summer.
I don't know who made the decision, wouldn't be surprised if Ciarán was heavily involved tbh. Or maybe he made up his own mind, could be just as likely.
I just don't think that he'll be considered if he isn't in for the league. Especially in Division 1B, we can afford to give the likes of Lynch and maybe one or two more of the minors a go.savannahkat wrote: »I agree with you 100% about targeting both promotion and the AI. The point I am making is that Kilkenny were battle hardened and Limerick were not last Sunday week. It was the difference between winning and losing. A lot of Kilkennys battle hardness is developed during the league competing against the best and throwing in players to see if they can handle it against the best. Championship time is for disgarding those who could not and fine tuning those who could into the overall set up. You wont develop the same hardness competing in Div1B.
I don't know if it's so simple as that, but it certainly didn't hurt... really good teams win at all levels- league & Championship alike. We definitely need to win promotion... the failure this year was shocking since Cork basically handed us promotion on a plate.0 -
savannahkat wrote: »I agree with you 100% about targeting both promotion and the AI. The point I am making is that Kilkenny were battle hardened and Limerick were not last Sunday week. It was the difference between winning and losing. A lot of Kilkennys battle hardness is developed during the league competing against the best and throwing in players to see if they can handle it against the best. Championship time is for disgarding those who could not and fine tuning those who could into the overall set up. You wont develop the same hardness competing in Div1B.
I said to myself after last Sunday would 1A have made a difference and I think it would. Just having the practice of winning games when they are in the melting pot would be worth a lot to a team I think0 -
A last point, i was very disappointed with hickeys comment on the minors last night on the sunday game. When asked if the minors were going to flop in the AI (awful question from a dire presenter) instead of giving Des the treatment he said that "its limerick so anything could happen" WTF kind of loser attitude is that. What he should have said was No there an excellent team and using a form line through waterford it will be 50/50 game.
3 points up against cork after 30 mins go in at half time level. Level with 12 to play and then lose by 6.
3 up with 30 played against kk, go in at HT down by 2, get back in front by 2 and then concede a brutal goal to lose by 2.
Either our players arent fit enough to see out games, lose concentration or dont have the attitude to close out games. Whatever it is it needs to be sorted out ASAP.0 -
paddy no 11 wrote: »A last point, i was very disappointed with hickeys comment on the minors last night on the sunday game. When asked if the minors were going to flop in the AI (awful question from a dire presenter) instead of giving Des the treatment he said that "its limerick so anything could happen" WTF kind of loser attitude is that. What he should have said was No there an excellent team and using a form line through waterford it will be 50/50 game.
3 points up against cork after 30 mins go in at half time level. Level with 12 to play and then lose by 6.
3 up with 30 played against kk, go in at HT down by 2, get back in front by 2 and then concede a brutal goal to lose by 2.
Either our players arent fit enough to see out games, lose concentration or dont have the attitude to close out games. Whatever it is it needs to be sorted out ASAP.
At the same time, we fell behind against Tipp last year by 4 points and came back to win by 3.
This year, we were behind by 3 with 10 to go, had a goal disallowed... didn't let that bother us and won by 2.
I agree that the 2 this year weren't good enough. I don't think it's attitude... not sure about fitness, we definitely don't have the same bench as others. And that does hurt us.0 -
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savannahkat wrote: »I said it before yesterdays match, Limerick have to get out of division 1B and that Cork V Clare last year was an aberration on the norm. You will get competitive games in 1B but not against the best and it is against the best you must judge yourself. By all accounts Limerick have some fine prospects coming along especially at minor. Limerick have no choice next year but to play in 1B but the current minors wont be ready next year, but they should start to make their presence felt the year after. Let the young lads compete through out the league against the very best. Teams will not be as fit as for championship but skill is a constant and for these young Limerick lads to test themselves against the Kilkenny's and Tipp's and others and to learn the tricks at the highest levels is paramount for the future development of this Limerick team. No matter who else is in 1B, you will not be competing against the very best and will learn very little. Limerick should be playing Kilkenny every year and not just once every so often, 3 times I believe in 7 years is just not enough. Promotion is far more important I believe than winning next years Munster championship, if Limerick want to reach the ultimate summit.1A no matter what anyone says is very competitive and teams have to compete at the highest levels to avoid the dreaded drop. These five games and not the quarter, semi or finals are the breeding ground for most successful championship teams. Kilkenny and Tipp have proved t this over the past ten years, and for other less successful counties to maintain that Div 1A status is not a very important cog in the wheel of success is nonsense.
Personally I wouldnt be bothered about what division Limerick are in.
We were in Division 1B every year from 1997 to 2011 AFAIK (could be wrong!) and we only made 2 munster finals.Playing in the top league has teams going through the motions sometimes. In that time we suffered some of our most disastrous championship results ever.
Since we exited the top division in 2010 we have had 4 reasonably decent championship seasons in a row.
The work done at underage is far more important.In fact for me it's not even close. Players will have high intensity games playing for their club, and at 2nd/3rd level during the league aswell as against other Limerick players at training.
We may or may not get out of 1B next season but well still more than likely perform in championship.0 -
shockframe wrote: »Personally I wouldnt be bothered about what division Limerick are in.
We were in Division 1B every year from 1997 to 2011 AFAIK (could be wrong!) and we only made 2 munster finals.Playing in the top league has teams going through the motions sometimes. In that time we suffered some of our most disastrous championship results ever.
Since we exited the top division in 2010 we have had 4 reasonably decent championship seasons in a row.
The work done at underage is far more important.In fact for me it's not even close. Players will have high intensity games playing for their club, and at 2nd/3rd level during the league aswell as against other Limerick players at training.
We may or may not get out of 1B next season but well still more than likely perform in championship.
You know the biggest shock any Kilkenny player gets is when he reports for county training for the first time and finds out just how much more he is expected to do over and above anything he ever did in club training and this is from a county who have produced more than their fair share of All Ireland club champions. But you are right on one thing it really does not matter what division you are in if you do not have the players and yes you must produce them first. Lastly your final statement is one that has afflicted Limerick for far to long and should not be accepted and I think will not be accepted by TJ Ryan "it is not good enough any more just to perform" It is time to win the McCarthy cup.Limerick have the talent but talent alone will win you nothing you need to train like the best and play the best. You are only dreaming if you think that division 1B hurling does not have an adverse effect on a team with championship aspirations.0 -
I'm with savannahkat on this one, winning 1B has got to be a priority for TJ and the panel next year, and looking at the opposition we really should be topping that group. Based on the last two years we are the standout team in 1B now, I don't know if they got complacent in the dying stages against Offaly this year but looking at how Offaly went on to perform in the championship we have to conclude that drawing with Offaly in the league was an absolutely terrible result.
Our opposition will be Waterford, Wexford, Laois, Antrim and Offaly. Laois showed positive signs of improvement at times this year, hopefully that will continue. Waterford and Wexford will both fancy having a crack at us in the league, Wexford in particular will want to make up for the quarter final capitulation. Surely Offaly can only improve on last year. But with respect to all 5 opposition teams in 1B this is a group we really should be winning. Yeah, the league is not the be all and end all but we should still take it seriously.
If the league is seen as a means to prepare for the championship, then it stands to reason that our preparations would be better served by playing in 1A rather than 1B. And we haven't played top level league hurling since 2010, and given the absolute disaster Justin Mac made of that year you could say we haven't had top level league hurling since 2009! Up to then our last year out of the top flight was all the way back in 1996. I'm fed up of second tier league hurling, time to put an end to it!!
Now, I'm off to the Gaelic Grounds; looking forward to the double header tonight!0 -
zombieHanalei wrote: »I'm with savannahkat on this one, winning 1B has got to be a priority for TJ and the panel next year, and looking at the opposition we really should be topping that group. Based on the last two years we are the standout team in 1B now, I don't know if they got complacent in the dying stages against Offaly this year but looking at how Offaly went on to perform in the championship we have to conclude that drawing with Offaly in the league was an absolutely terrible result.
Our opposition will be Waterford, Wexford, Laois, Antrim and Offaly. Laois showed positive signs of improvement at times this year, hopefully that will continue. Waterford and Wexford will both fancy having a crack at us in the league, Wexford in particular will want to make up for the quarter final capitulation. Surely Offaly can only improve on last year. But with respect to all 5 opposition teams in 1B this is a group we really should be winning. Yeah, the league is not the be all and end all but we should still take it seriously.
If the league is seen as a means to prepare for the championship, then it stands to reason that our preparations would be better served by playing in 1A rather than 1B. And we haven't played top level league hurling since 2010, and given the absolute disaster Justin Mac made of that year you could say we haven't had top level league hurling since 2009! Up to then our last year out of the top flight was all the way back in 1996. I'm fed up of second tier league hurling, time to put an end to it!!
Now, I'm off to the Gaelic Grounds; looking forward to the double header tonight!
The old 1b and 1a were both of equal ability. We lost to Kk in a league final under Joe Mc in Thurles before becoming unstuck against Tipp0 -
Jaysus, I didn't realise those games were on tonight.
South Liberties vs Ballybrown; and Murroe/Boher vs Patrickswell are very big games. As is Adare vs Ahane.
I expect NaP and Doon to win handily enough.0 -
Fair play to Ahane, a few of Adare's key players just never got going, Adare started well but Ahane dug it out, outfought Adare for the last 40/45 minutes and got their reward. Floodlights switched off as the players were in the middle of their warm down!!!
A nice tie in the final round; Adare v Patrickswell; winner goes through, loser goes out!!
Also, fair play to Granagh-Ballingarry, gave Na Piarsaigh one hell of a game, a cracker of a game by all accounts.0 -
I was strongly opposed to reducing the SHC from 16 to 12 teams but all in all the restructuring of the top two tiers has been a success in my opinion.
SHC Group One
Doon will qualify as group winners. If Ahane finish level on points, Doon take first place as in the event of two teams finishing level on points, the result of the game between those two teams determines who finishes ahead, and not scoring difference.
Ahane will finish second, except if they lose to Knockainey and Patrickswell defeat Adare, in which case Patrickswell would finish second with Ahane third.
The winners of Patrickswell and Adare qualify for the quarter finals. The loser goes out. Adare can only finish third if they win, a Patrickswell win would see them finish third or second (depending on the outcome of the Ahane v Knockainey game as outlined above.
Murroe-Boher can neither qualify for the knockout stages, nor can they be relegated. They are guaranteed a county cup place.
Knockainey are relegated. Best case scenario, they finish level on points with Murroe-Boher, but Murroe-Boher won the tie between the two sides.
SHC Group Two.
Na Piarsaigh are guaranteed to finish first, Kilmallock will almost certainly finish second unless in the unlikely event that South Liberties defeat Kilmallock in the final round, in which case South Liberties would finish second with Kilmallock third.
After that, there are a LOT of permutations, but if we assume that Na Piarsaigh will defeat Ballybrown and that Kilmallock will defeat South Liberties then it becomes far more straight forward. And I think we'll all agree that it is extremely unlikely Na Piarsaigh or Kilmallock will suffer defeat in those games, so I'll go forward with that assumption.
This should all boil down to the Effin v Granagh-Ballingarry game. If Effin were to win (combined with NaP and Kilm wins) then the final order would be as follows; 1-NAP, 2-KIL, 3-S.LI, 4-EFF, 5-BAL, 6-GR/B. So Granagh-Ballingarry would be relegated.
If Granagh-Ballingarry were to win (combined with NaP and Kilm wins) then the final order would be as follows; 1-NAP, 2-KIL, 3-GR/B, 4-S.LI, 5-EFF, 6-BAL. So Ballybrown would be relegated.
So based on the above, the final game is absolutely massive for Granagh-Ballingarry; win and they most likely make the quarter finals, lose and they are relegated.0 -
Yeah so we have:
Group One | Pts
Doon | 8
Ahane | 6
Patrickswell | 4
Adare | 4
Murroe/Boher | 2
Knockainey | 0
With:
Adare vs Patrickswell
Doon vs Murroe/Boher
Knockainey vs Adare
still to play. As expected, Knockainey are going down, they just don't have the strength of the other teams really.
Murroe/Boher are likely to be disappointed with their results, especially their last loss to the Well, that's a fair oul beating tbh. Patrickswell do have some very good young players coming through... obviously Cian Lynch, but Diarmuid Byrnes, Jack Kelliher, Kevin O'Brien and Mark Carmody were all U-21 this year; Seanie & Tommy O'Brien aren't much older; and the likes of Aaron Gillane & the younger Carmody. Still a bit off where they used to be, but they're up and coming.
A strong Ahane can only be good for Limerick hurling, and they've got 2 1-point victories over their closest rivals; Patrickswell & Adare. It's great to win those tight games and they've done well this year, but I still don't think they're title challengers really.
Are Doon? Disposed of everyone handily enough, even if they only beat Patrickswell by a point in the end. Apparently Darragh O'Donovan scored 2-6 against Knockainey? That's serious scoring... players who are putting up that kind of total, and are already talented should be ones we look at for senior. Again, they're a very young team... the backbone of last year's minor team + a couple of older headers; Dinny Moloney, Cathal Mc, Mike Fitz, Niall Maher... They've won their group handily enough, but are they good enough to beat Kilmallock, and then NaP? I think they might reach the final. They had no Cathal Mc, Mike Fitz or Darragh Stapleton last night though.
Adare will obviously be gutted about losing to Ahane... any team who have Hannon, Fitzgibbon & Griffin should be able to rack up a good few scores but they are a team in decline atm. Need some more young players to make an impact. The game against the Well should be a cracker, winner takes all.
I'm going to say barring a masterclass from Hannon that the Well sneak it, Adare don't have much pace and the Well have some very nippy forwards.
Group Two| Pts
Na Piarsaigh| 8
Kilmallock | 6
South Liberties | 4
Ballybrown | 2
Effin | 2
Granagh/Ballingarry | 2
Effin vs Granagh/Ballingarry
Kilmallock vs South Liberties
Na Piarsaigh vs Ballybrown
I think this one went as expected too... the big two at the top, the rest fighting for both the final quarter-final place and relegation.
I thought Ballybrown would take the 3rd knockout spot from the group, and now they are in big trouble. Can't see them beating NaP. Have some very good young players, but are maybe lacking a few class, experienced heads. Hard to know. A 1-point loss to South Liberties last night must have been sickening, but that bad loss to Effin was a killer.
And after Effin got beaten badly by Liberties the first night, it looked like they'd be the ones to go down, but they've come back and battled gamely in every game since. And they can't go down bar a shock in the Ballybrown-NaP game; which is a fair reward.
Sounds like Granagh/Ballingarry were very very unlucky not to beat Na Piarsaigh though, and I can see them beating Effin and sending Ballybrown tbh, they survived at the end last year and I can see them doing it again...
Kilmallock haven't set the world alight... South Liberties have got 2 good wins, but a bad loss to G/B could cost them a quarter-final spot... but in Tom Ryan, Barry Nash & William Hickey, they've got some good young hurlers.
Dave Dempsey and Downes got the goals to pull the game out of the fire for the champions, but they have so many good players and strength in depth, it's hard to see beyond them. Certainly nobody can live with them once they get going.
I think it'll be Doon & NaP in the final, I hope it is, because I think they're the best 2 teams.
Knockainey & Ballybrown to go down.
Could be a lot of very good games left in this Championship, starting with Adare v the Well.0 -
We've had good minor teams for the past couple of years, culminating in the teams of this year and last year, where we are as good as anyone around.
The policy seems to have a good few of the panel each year carry over, which does make sense, I guess. We definitely won't be as strong next year... we are losing some pretty phenomenal players for this grade who have backboned the team for the last 2 years, but we still should be pretty strong.
Players who are underage again next year:
Eoghan McNamara- starting goalkeeper, very solid, fine puck-outs.
Paddy O'Loughlin- this year's full-back. Probably not a natural in the position, but a very good player and will be key next year. Maybe in the half-back line.
Conor Byrnes- came into the squad later than a few others, plays senior for Murroe/Boher... quieter than Ryan/ALTC but a handy player all the same.
Seamus Flanagan- when it comes to work rate and vision, not many better. Shooting accuracy lets him down at times but he'll be a star next year.
Peter Casey- Graeme Mulcahy-esque, he is simply electric inside. Give him a bit of space, and he'll run riot.
That's 5 of this year's starting team. They mightn't be quite of the same calibre as Finn, ALTC, Ryan, Nash and the Lynches carrying over from last year, but they are all good players.
Then add in subs like Thomas Grimes, who is very highly-rated with Na Piarsaigh; Barry Murphy of Doon, who is starting senior for them is a very dangerous scoring threat; Conor McSweeney & Brian Ryan, both of South Liberties and you have 9 players who have already featured at this level.
And people talk about players like Joe Lonergan of Cappamore, Luke Doran of Ballybrown, Darren O'Connell of Pallaskenry, Ian Coates of Old Christians and Eoin Mulcahy of Mungret... and I'm sure there are plenty of others too. The future is bright.0 -
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Conor Fitzgerald is definitely underage. No so sure about Cian O'Brien who done his cruciate.0
This discussion has been closed.
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