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Lack of sympathy over killing of Roma girl.

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    #62
    Old Tom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 237 ✭✭Old Tom


    wes wrote: »
    Simply put, the Roma are prehaps the most hated group in Europe.
    The question always is "why?"...


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    #63
    Giselle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Yes , Because... while it is tragic that this girl was killed, unfortunatly I would say almost all Irish peoples experience with roma (along with some other minority groups) are negative ones. Its the activities of the visible sect of the roma community that sheds a negative light on them, and so Irish people dont feel bad about crimes committed against them, considering the crimes perpetrated by the roma community against Irish people.

    Im not saying this girl specifically committed crimes, but when you say the word roma to an Irish person, they automatically think of beggars, thieves, the children standing at ATM machines trying to rob you. I wish I could say it was a minority of roma in Ireland doing this, but I know that is not the case.

    All you have to do is separate the person from the background. She was a human being, not some stereotype that somehow mitigates the disgust any decent person should feel.

    She was an 18 year old girl who died under totally horrific circumstances. On a human level every single person in the country should be outraged about that, no matter who she was, where she was from, or what her family business was.


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    #64
    Lawrence1895
    Registered Users Posts: 7,627 ✭✭✭Lawrence1895


    Old Tom wrote: »
    The question always is "why?"...

    Because people tend to pick a scapegoat in times of hardship...someone who appears to be different, which includes religion, colour of skin, ethnic origin, etc.


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    #65
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    wes wrote: »
    Simply put, the Roma are prehaps the most hated group in Europe. So, I think a huge chunk of the reason is that she was Roma.

    Bad reason. The Jews used to be the most hated group in Europe. Look how that turned out.


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    #66
    themandan6611
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭themandan6611


    Confab wrote: »
    Bad reason. The Jews used to be the most hated group in Europe. Look how that turned out.

    I dont see the roma people forming one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world :D


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    #67
    EGAR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    Giselle wrote: »
    All you have to do is separate the person from the background. She was a human being, not some stereotype that somehow mitigates the disgust any decent person should feel.

    She was an 18 year old girl who died under totally horrific circumstances. On a human level every single person in the country should be outraged about that, no matter who she was, where she was from, or what her family business was.

    Totally and utterly agree with this, she went through hell and was killed and discarded like rubbish.


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    #68
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,472 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    If I may channel the entire Irish people through me, as an avatar if you will of the entire nation, I think the death this poor girl suffered was absolutely horrific. And that the people who committed it were sub human scum who should be tortured, castrated, mutilated, hung, drawn and quartered. This is regardless of who the girl was or where she came from (seriously - what the ****....Roma, Irish, Martian - what difference does that make to anyone?)

    This is the typical reaction of any Irish person who is asked about the events and the murder in question. Nobody, absolutely nobody deserves a death like this girl suffered - except the people who carried it out who deserve worse. I'm not sure what the Gardai expect in response - I agree with the general logic that you see people more worked up about distant, remote injustices in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan etc, but he seems to forget that in Ireland we have a force thats dedicated to combating injustice - its called the Gardai.

    I really, really, really doubt that the people who carried out this sick crime were boy scouts prior to the event - if the Gardai were motivated to persecute habitual criminals for minor offences ... who knows...maybe they would prevent serious offences?


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    #69
    EGAR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    To be fair, it must be very frustrating to see criminals whom they arrested walk out of court scot free or get short sentences etc. Look at the guy who broke out of prison recently, he had nearly a hundred priors and got sent down for manslaughter of a Gardai.

    That must be immensely frustrating.


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    #70
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    People relate to people like them

    If I may bring up a common tactic in the famous Daily Mail
    Mrs Stephens was found murdered in her house with a value of quarter of a million.

    The value of the house means nothing but the editors insert it for a reason. You'll often see it in reports.


    As was said in other threads, if the McCanns were benefit spongers from the flats we may not even know their name and if we did there would be a lot less sympathy, less money and no book deals

    firefly explains it better earlier in the thread
    Look, what makes people outraged and kick up a fuss etc. is not the race or ethnicity etc. etc. - it's how much they can relate to the crime, and how much it affects them and their way of life.

    You read the story, do you relate to the person at all? You could say the same about films too but now I'm going way offtopic
    If you can't relate then it's hard to feel anything, not anger or outrage or sympathy, nothing but apathy


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    #71
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Old Tom wrote: »
    The question always is "why?"...
    I guess - in this country - the problem would be the begging and the not working and stuff. This is a totally separate issue to the appalling crime that was committed against that poor girl.


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    #72
    EGAR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    skregs wrote: »
    To be honest, I don't give a shít. Bitch all you want, but clearly 99% of the country agrees with me. They're thieves and beggars and they'd have far more sympathy from the Irish people if they actually contributed anything ever to the country.

    No one wants gypsies here so we don't care what happens to them. Let them roam back to Romania and take their accordians with them.


    Quite pretentious of you to state as a fact that 99% of the country are behind you. That would infer 99% of the people living in Ireland have lost their ability to feel empathy. I somehow doubt that highly.

    Oh and what is an *accordian*?


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    #73
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,637 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    The buck responsible should be given cancer and have experiments carried out on him.


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    #74
    EGAR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    skregs wrote: »
    Not pretentious, merely the complete and utter lack of public outrage or sympathy towards the killing would imply that a large majority care as little as I do.

    Of course, my argument is obviously laughably ridiculous because I misspelled accordion.

    Indeed not, no one is laughing. There is plenty of outrage and sympathy at least amongst my friends and family, obviously not amongst yours.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/the-life-and-death-of-marioara-rostas-181766.html

    If you can read that and then tell me that you do not feel the slightest empathy for this girl then I think that you are a very jaded person.


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    #75
    Giselle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    skregs wrote: »
    To be honest, I don't give a shít. Bitch all you want, but clearly 99% of the country agrees with me. They're thieves and beggars and they'd have far more sympathy from the Irish people if they actually contributed anything ever to the country.

    No one wants gypsies here so we don't care what happens to them. Let them roam back to Romania and take their accordians with them.

    Actually you not giving a sh!it about the brutalisation, degradation, sexual torture and exploitation of another human being says a lot more about you than it does about the Roma, and I doubt you have the franchise to speak for '99% of the country'.


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    #76
    EGAR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    skregs wrote: »
    Not even the slightest bit.

    I pity you, I really do.


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    #77
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    GaryIrv93 wrote: »
    if that was an Irish Traveller, then I doubt it would be much different - there'd be little sympathy due to the vast majority of Irish people's views on both groups.

    +1, when an "ethnic" group as a whole decide to operate outside the law, they're not going to get any sympathy when they end up on the wrong end of things.


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    #78
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Lads if you have no sympathy for that girl after she went through all that there's something seriously wrong with you.

    I agree that certain groups have a reputation for being up to no good and by and large its warranted and I'd be as distrustful of them as the next person but regardless of all that what happened to that girl was sickening and should not have happened.

    Just because it doesnt publicly manifest itself doesnt mean people do not sympathise or are not outraged over this. As people have said its been drawn out over 4 years and a grisly end was expected.


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    #79
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Jack_Russell wrote: »
    @Jelly2

    some folk might argue all gypsies, travellers, roma etc. "had contributed to his/their own demise"

    'tis a very slippery slope

    The case of Ward is different. Ward was on Nallys farm with the intention of robbing him, thats why he was considered to have contributed to his own demise.

    As for the case with this girl, its easy to see why there was little outrage. The gardai only said that heinous things happened to this girl, there was no description of what actually happened to her, which would be necessary to elicit sympathy imo. Secondly, its been 4 years since she was abducted, and was living in Ireland on her own. No one knew her.


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    #80
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,407 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    The case of Ward is different. Ward was on Nallys farm with the intention of robbing him, thats why he was considered to have contributed to his own demise.

    As for the case with this girl, its easy to see why there was little outrage. The gardai only said that heinous things happened to this girl, there was no description of what actually happened to her, which would be necessary to elicit sympathy imo. Secondly, its been 4 years since she was abducted, and was living in Ireland on her own. No one knew her.
    She wasn't on her own. She came over and joined her family. Her brother was begging with her and gave a desciption of the car the picked her up. She was living with her family in a derelict house in Donabate.


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    #81
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    humberklog wrote: »
    She wasn't on her own. She came over and joined her family. Her brother was begging with her and gave a desciption of the car the picked her up. She was living with her family in a derelict house in Donabate.

    I stand corrected. Perhaps its the lack of media coverage that has caused the lack of outrage?


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    #82
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,407 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I stand corrected. Perhaps its the lack of media coverage that has caused the lack of outrage?

    The story has been covered very well. It was investigated very badly at the beginning. As I mentioned earlier in a post, the gardai thought she was married off within her own community.

    The story was very well covered in print media from day one.


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    #83
    skregs
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭skregs


    Giselle wrote: »
    I doubt you have the franchise to speak for '99% of the country'.

    I do yeah. I spoke to them all and they said they agreed with me so.


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    #84
    G.muny
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭G.muny


    I was disgusted when I heard about this case, as were most people I know. I wasn't aware that people apprantly didn't care. Everyone I know thought it was horrendous. God luv the poor girl and I hope the scum that done it to her rot.


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    #85
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,407 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    G.muny wrote: »
    I was disgusted when I heard about this case, as were most people I know. I wasn't aware that people apprantly didn't care. Everyone I know thought it was horrendous. God luv the poor girl and I hope the scum that done it to her rot.

    But it's only the GRA's PJ Stone saying that in the GRA's own publication. That doesn't make it fact. What is fact is that the Gardai didn't care and he's trying to mirror that onto general Irish society.

    This bonzo's deflection is sickening.


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    #86
    carlmango11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭carlmango11


    Realistically is it not totally understandable that the average Joe Soap wouldn't be outraged about the death of a Roma?

    I mean the only view the Irish get of them is the pushy, rude beggars that are all over the streets of Dublin (I can't comment on other cities). To a lot of them begging is their culture; they don't do it out of necessity. There have been countless immigrants to Europe of all different ethnicities and no other group but the Romas have decided to beg for generation after generation instead of getting jobs.

    Compare this murder to that of the Polish lads who got stabbed with the screwdriver. People were disgusted over that and there was a huge deal made about it. Simply because the general Irish opinion of the Polish is that they are hard working, good people.

    Of course people are going to care more about a race which is tangibly more integrated and productive in society. Why would the public mourn or be deeply moved by the death of someone who spends their life as a leech on society. I know I sound like a racist, heartless bastard but I'm being realistic. I think there's an element of PC bull**** about this. It was a horrible crime, the culprits should be locked for life but I can understand why the Irish public haven't made a big fuss.


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    #87
    G.muny
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭G.muny


    the groutch wrote: »
    +1, when an "ethnic" group as a whole decide to operate outside the law, they're not going to get any sympathy when they end up on the wrong end of things.
    The 16 year old girl that was shot in tallaght was a traveller and there was outrage. Reguardless of where that girl was from she was 18 years of age...barely an adult. She was brutally raped by more than one of those bastards, during which time she probaly knew she would be murdered. NO ONE...deserves that. Reguardless of weather she was on the right ot wrong side of the law. So she may have bothered a few people with her begging probaly something she was brought up to do so sure who cares then, if she is beaten up, raped and killed? I really don't understand people. When did everyone get so cold. The thoughts of how afraid that girl must have been don't bare thinking about :(


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    #88
    Jack_Russell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Jack_Russell


    G.muny wrote: »
    The 16 year old girl that was shot in tallaght was a traveller and there was outrage. Reguardless of where that girl was from she was 18 years of age...barely an adult. She was brutally raped by more than one of those bastards, during which time she probaly knew she would be murdered. NO ONE...deserves that. Reguardless of weather she was on the right ot wrong side of the law. So she may have bothered a few people with her begging probaly something she was brought up to do so sure who cares then, if she is beaten up, raped and killed? I really don't understand people. When did everyone get so cold. The thoughts of how afraid that girl must have been don't bare thinking about :(


    When did everyone get so cold.

    let me see? the 30s, the 40s or 50s when society turned a blind eye to the rape of little children by our clergy.

    don't get me wrong what happened to that poor Roma girl was truly appalling, but i dont buy this "and we used to be such a compassionate society" mullarkey.


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    #89
    LH Pathe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭LH Pathe


    A lack of sympathy?! .. might be borne out of the possibility she was willing to go there. i'm not gonna practice the last saving grace of the desperate by claiming "i hate perverts" .. But I do; you know?! and even if there's a bit of one in all of us dubbed sexual urges this was completely bottom rung. And should be re-enacted in love/hate to drive home the grimey reality -she certainly has my sympathy, and international embarrassment past the point it went particularly awry n she stopped enjoying her evening


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    #90
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    the groutch wrote: »
    +1, when an "ethnic" group as a whole decide to operate outside the law, they're not going to get any sympathy when they end up on the wrong end of things.

    Isn't it great to see the advance in human empathy over the last few centuries.


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    #91
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LH Pathe wrote: »
    A lack of sympathy?! .. might be borne out of the possibility she was willing to go there. i'm not gonna practice the last saving grace of the desperate by claiming "i hate perverts" .. But I do; you know?! and even if there's a bit of one in all of us dubbed sexual urges this was completely bottom rung. And should be re-enacted in love/hate to drive home the grimey reality -she certainly has my sympathy, and international embarrassment past the point it went particularly awry n she stopped enjoying her evening

    ...and whats that supposed to mean, in english this time....?


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