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Irish Rail - 4 Carriage DARTs and rising fares (speculation)

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    #152
    ButtersSuki
    Registered Users Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    The 17:15ish Dart from Sandymount Northbound was crazy yesterday - worst I've ever seen it (incl. around Christmas times or concerts). There was a minor altercation between some passengers getting on and off at bith Pearse and Tara Street but in fairness to the passengers there wasn't room to fart (:rolleyes:) let alone get on and off safely. People were standing the full length of the carriage I was on from Lansdowne Road to Connolly (I get off at Connolly so can't comment on what that was like). Would hate to think of the potential for carnage should one of these trains brake suddenly, heaven forbid crash or derail. Anyone else notice this?


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    #153
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    ButtersSuki wrote: »
    The 17:15ish Dart from Sandymount Northbound was crazy yesterday - worst I've ever seen it (incl. around Christmas times or concerts). There was a minor altercation between some passengers getting on and off at bith Pearse and Tara Street but in fairness to the passengers there wasn't room to fart (:rolleyes:) let alone get on and off safely. People were standing the full length of the carriage I was on from Lansdowne Road to Connolly (I get off at Connolly so can't comment on what that was like). Would hate to think of the potential for carnage should one of these trains brake suddenly, heaven forbid crash or derail. Anyone else notice this?

    It's probably safer the fuller it is as bodies can't be thrown any great distance.


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    #154
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    schemingbohemia wrote: »
    It's probably safer the fuller it is as bodies can't be thrown any great distance.
    Crush injuries are often worse than other fractures and cuts and bruises. Also for those seated, having people being thrown in on top of them with arms flailing will cause serious injuries.


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    #155
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    4 cars are too short for rush hour. I have seen the 17:15 Ex Howth as a 4 car the last few days. When it arrives at Clontarf Rd, it is creating a very dangerous situation where about 30 passengers have to run down the platform to catch the train as the driver pulled all the way down. Someone is going to fall and be injured in this stampede along the platform.

    All trains need to be 6 cars at least. The 8600/20s have been paired with the 8100s in the past. Maybe this is a solution to make the trains a little safer. Also it makes no sense to be paying for new trains and not using them when the demand is clearly there.

    How many more passengers fainting and causing delays before they realise their policy is not working.


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    #156
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Infini2 wrote: »
    Actually thad be stupid expecially considering those Units are not only in good condition but when they EVENTUALLY electrify the maynooth/m3 lines theyre gonna need those units to run on those lines. Or would u prefer 1 train an hour out that way forever now would ya? :P
    Returning the 2700s to service would fill a chunk of the void left, 29000s displaced by 22000s on the Northern Line some more with dieselisation of Howth and Greystones doing the rest. If there was any remaining gaps IE could talk to NIR about leasing some C3Ks since NIR appears to have more C4Ks than it can use.

    Not the way IE should be going but until such time as Transport for Dublin is created and takes control of DART/Suburban, DB, LUAS and other licenced city services and in particular converts DB into an orbital feeder system to ensure LUAS and DART are maxed out, you could see IE doing something about that desperate.


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    #157
    Northern Monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭Northern Monkey


    Someone fainted on my carriage again this evening. Looking at twitter 12 of the 26 tweets Irish rail has made in the last 24 hours are replies to complaints about lack of capacity.


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    #158
    delad
    Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭delad


    How much would fares have to increase before frequent and comfortable services could be provided? Like if they doubled prices, could we get a decent service or would taxpayers still be subsidizing rail journeys even with that increase?


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    #159
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,475 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    delad wrote: »
    How much would fares have to increase before frequent and comfortable services could be provided? Like if they doubled prices, could we get a decent service or would taxpayers still be subsidizing rail journeys even with that increase?

    double the price and you drive so many people away that you'd have no problem getting a seat.
    I though DART operation were one of the few profitable areas of IE already?


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    #160
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    I though DART operation were one of the few profitable areas of IE already?
    I read a few years ago that the only IE company that is sometimes profitable is BÉ. I remember thinking at the time "How the fook could DART not be profitable".

    But how can you determine profitability anyway when subvention distorts everything. Give them enough subvention and eventually they'll look profitable.


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    #161
    ButtersSuki
    Registered Users Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Just wondering does Barry Kenny of Iarnrod Eireann PR read these pages?


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    #162
    eigrod
    Registered Users Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭eigrod


    ButtersSuki wrote: »
    Just wondering does Barry Kenny of Iarnrod Eireann PR read these pages?

    Anybody got any updates from Barry Kenny's interview with George Hook on Wednesday ? Didn't hear it myself.


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    #163
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Well with the match at Lansdowne on tonight I doubt theyll keep 4 Pieces Running today(if they do theyre complete muppets). Expect moar space today D:


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    #164
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    If an urban public transit service is "profitable" (usually denoted as that fares cover >100pc of operating) there's probably not enough service being run.


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    #165
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    dowlingm wrote: »
    If an urban public transit service is "profitable" (usually denoted as that fares cover >100pc of operating) there's probably not enough service being run.

    Unfortunately, they are more interested in what's in their wallet than the passengers (customers) themselves. Over the last few weeks, I've been commuting a lot and peak hour services as far as Greystones have been operated by 4 carriage DARTs. The latest move by the wonderful rail operator is the decision to send 29000s down to Rosslare instead of 22000s. I can only hope that Dick Fearn, the new CEO will be able install some sense and customer awareness back into the company.


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    #166
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    patrickbrophy18 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, they are more interested in what's in their wallet than the passengers (customers) themselves.
    nothing new there, been like that since the formation of CIE.
    patrickbrophy18 wrote: »
    Over the last few weeks, I've been commuting a lot and peak hour services as far as Greystones have been operated by 4 carriage DARTs.
    they want to drive away all the passengers so they can shut up and lift the lot of the railway and sell off the land.
    patrickbrophy18 wrote: »
    The latest move by the wonderful rail operator is the decision to send 29000s down to Rosslare instead of 22000s.
    29s never stopped operating some services to and from sligo and rosslare even though both lines got 22000s. are they operating more services to and from rosslare now days? haven't traveled in a little while so i'm wondering are they putting 29s back on all services in the hope of finally driving away the passengers so they can finally shut and lift everything south of greystones?
    patrickbrophy18 wrote: »
    I can only hope that Dick Fearn, the new CEO will be able install some sense and customer awareness back into the company.

    Dick Fearn is the current CEO, he retires soon, can't see the new CEO being any better but i'm willing to give him a chance (probably at my peril)

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #167
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    This is starting to get ridiculous. For the second time this weekend (Late Friday night) and now on a SUNDAY night, I am travelling on an 8 car DART. It is working the 20:10 ex Malahide.

    There are enough passengers for about two per carriage. What are they playing at? I am not aware of any match or major event that requires extra capacity.

    Irish Rail really need to cop on. I'm getting annoyed with seeing resources being wasted at off peak times meanwhile their own passengers who keep the money coming in (Mon-Fri peak pax) are suffering.

    I could get a 6th class student to do a better job.


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    #168
    eigrod
    Registered Users Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭eigrod


    Haven't seen any 4 carriage DARTs at peak time for a couple of weeks now. Perhaps they've (finally) listened to the customer complaints on this one ? Or maybe I've just been lucky!


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    #169
    kingshankly
    Registered Users Posts: 7,543 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    bikeman1 wrote: »
    This is starting to get ridiculous. For the second time this weekend (Late Friday night) and now on a SUNDAY night, I am travelling on an 8 car DART. It is working the 20:10 ex Malahide.

    There are enough passengers for about two per carriage. What are they playing at? I am not aware of any match or major event that requires extra capacity.

    Irish Rail really need to cop on. I'm getting annoyed with seeing resources being wasted at off peak times meanwhile their own passengers who keep the money coming in (Mon-Fri peak pax) are suffering.

    I could get a 6th class student to do a better job.

    It's all got to do with links have you thought that when that train is finished on the Sunday night it will be in place for Monday morning and it wasn't logistically possible to make it an 8 carriage any later


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    #170
    Hungerford
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    kingshankly wrote: »
    It's all got to do with links have you thought that when that train is finished on the Sunday night it will be in place for Monday morning and it wasn't logistically possible to make it an 8 carriage any later

    That makes sense. But what about all the four carriage Darts running around during peak times?


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    #171
    carveone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭carveone


    As Kingshankly says, for an 8 carriage dart to leave from Howth, it has to get to Howth first! And there seems to be issues creating 6 carriage darts on the newer stock .... (Just googled - er, ok, that's been done to death here...).

    But there are scheduling problems that are making it worse. The 7.39 Dart from Howth Junction is always about 2-3 mins late. But passengers arrive continuously at that time. So what would be just about ok with a 4 carriage dart suddenly becomes a problem when the dart arrives 3 mins late. And then people start sprinting for this dart and the driver nicely waits and it just gets worse and worse.

    So by the time it leaves Clontarf, it could be 5 mins late and miss whatever slot they assign for it at Connolly. And I miss my 8am Maynooth connection... I'm not sure if it's the driver's fault - but it's critical that they leave the terminus to the second and they aren't. Often they wait for the saunterers. They did have a 6 carriage on that time slot for a week and every day it was at most 2 mins late by Connolly...

    Plus putting a 4 carriage Commuter to Dundalk on at 6.20pm is madness the way it's done - that train should not stop at Howth Junction - people were practically hanging out of the doors. People are inherently selfish, they'll take the train and bump a dundalk passenger rather than wait the 2 mins for the next dart.


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