Gardai carrying Guns

FGR · 25-07-2012 1:35am

Not that I'd agree with Micheal Graham often but -

On the Right Hook he referred to an officer who saved his own life by shooting a madman who was driving directly at him.

I immediately thought of Garda McLoughlin. Rip.

K.Flyer · 25-07-2012 3:03am

bpb101 wrote: »

Guy got 6 years http://www.thejournal.ie/teen-sentenced-to-six-years-for-causing-gardas-death-83290-Feb2011/

I know I am slightly off topic here but, ONLY six years !!
7 years for causing the death of a Garda, why is 1 suspended?
5 years for endangering the lives of two other Garda.
3 years for stealing a car.
3 years for other burglary and criminal charges.
According to my calculator that equals 17 years. At most he will do 3 1/2 - 4 years.
They have to get rid of this concurrent Bulls**t and make them serve their time for what they have done wrong.
What an insult to the family and collegues of the Garda that was killed.

IRLConor · 25-07-2012 9:00am

Manic Moran wrote: »

1) I understand that there are a very few (we're talking under a dozen here) licensed full-auto firearms held by private citizens, one being a Glock 17C. The distinction being between a "Restricted" weapon, such as an assault rifle listed in SI 21 (2008), and a "prohibited weapon" in the Firearms Act, which as I read it is chemical weapons.

Full auto guns are prohibited EU-wide and to the best of my knowledge Ireland has implemented that directive.

I've heard about a Glock 18 (I presume you meant 18 rather than the more conventional 17 of which there are indeed several?) but as I understand it that was some comical cock up by the supplier and the firearm in question didn't spend very long in the hands of the owner who, if I'm told correctly, ordered a 17 and got an 18.

If other people legally have full auto stuff they're keeping it very, very quiet.

Manic Moran wrote: »

2) The technical definition of civilian. But that's another argument, depending on which dictionary edition you happen to be reading. I'm a traditionalist.

Fair point.

Zambia · 25-07-2012 1:38pm

With respect folks the conversation appears to be that firearms are required because Criminals have Firearms.

Lets not forget the common threat of Knives, baseball bats, Trolley Handles and other equally lethal weapons if used with intent.

http://www.herald.ie/news/garda-stabbed-in-face-on-street-2608558.html

The officer was injured as he took on the suspect, who was wielding a broken bottle, at Main Street, Raheny.

Minutes earlier the thug had stabbed another man, out walking with his partner and child, in an unprovoked attack at St Anne's Park.

The incident took place in daylight, at 6.30pm yesterday. The man who carried out the attack was aged in his late 20s.

A short time later a Garda approached a man on nearby Main Street and was also attacked. He received injuries to his eye and was taken to Beaumont Hospital but later released.

The fact is the Garda should have the option of going one level of force above the offender.

bpb101 · 25-07-2012 2:15pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

I know I am slightly off topic here but, ONLY six years !!
7 years for causing the death of a Garda, why is 1 suspended?
5 years for endangering the lives of two other Garda.
3 years for stealing a car.
3 years for other burglary and criminal charges.
According to my calculator that equals 17 years. At most he will do 3 1/2 - 4 years.
They have to get rid of this concurrent Bulls**t and make them serve their time for what they have done wrong.
What an insult to the family and collegues of the Garda that was killed.

in America the fella would be publicly hanged in Washington for all to see him. To show that you dont kill a cop and get away with it.

(obliviously exaggerated but through)

EDIT : might have got all them sentences but he serves them altogether

war_child · 25-07-2012 2:24pm

bpb101 wrote: »

Although it is rare that a garda would ever need a gun , You would never know.
I Remember the innocent of a few years ago where a driver drove his car at a gardí and into a wall , killing the garda.
If he was armed , this wouldn't have happened.

Although this is rare, i believe they should be armed

Edit : link http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-229816328.html
edit 2: guy got 6 years http://www.thejournal.ie/teen-sentenced-to-six-years-for-causing-gardas-death-83290-Feb2011/

This has to be one of the most stupid non sensical comments that has ever graced boards.

How on earth can you quantify that if the Gaurd was armed he wouldnt have been killed. Shooting at a car doesnt mean its going to stop.

And even if he had by some miracle actually killed the driver of the car the vehicle would have then become more dangerous as it had no one controlling it.

In relation to the soldier v guard debate , on the whole all soldiers are trained to use deadly force , the gardai are not , i honestly think this whole thread is ridiculous the fact that we dont have armed guards patrolling our streets our neighbourhood our counties is the main reason i stay in this country, arming the police is just far to American and with all honesty knowing some guards in this country i personally wouldnt arm them.

pah · 25-07-2012 3:33pm

war_child wrote: »

In relation to the soldier v guard debate , on the whole all soldiers are trained to use deadly force , the gardai are not

All armed Gardaí are.

war_child wrote: »

i honestly think this whole thread is ridiculous the fact that we dont have armed guards patrolling our streets our neighbourhood our counties is the main reason i stay in this country, arming the police is just far to American and with all honesty knowing some guards in this country i personally wouldnt arm them.

Why is it so American??

I really don't get this. It gives the impression that your only frame of reference is TV & Movies.

Why isn't arming all police in this country too Canadian?, too Italian?, too French? too insert any nationality here bar the uk?

Other arguments in this thread about Gardaí on a power trip are farcical to say the least. The suggestion that a member(and I know plenty of them) who is on one, would suddenly start pulling his gun out and waving it around??? GTFO. He's still gonna be c**t and give you a ticket/give you a lecture/arrest you for being pissed...

How many threads are started here complaing that The Guard stopped me and I was a bit uncooperative so he pulled his ASP out and started twirling it around, with his pepper spray in the other hand pointed at my face??

The suggestion that members, given guns would start acting like cowboys is ludicrous. Endof.

In 6 years I have drawn my baton once, not used it and I haven't used my pepper spray yet. I think I've just been lucky tbh as I have had colleagues assaulted, injured, stabbed, hospitalised... A different shift or duty at the time and it could have been me.

I'd like to think that if I was in a situation where a firearm was pointed at me that I had the option of protecting myself, my colleagues and the public by taking action and not by running away.

Manic Moran · 25-07-2012 6:04pm

IRLConor wrote: »

Full auto guns are prohibited EU-wide and to the best of my knowledge Ireland has implemented that directive.

There's an 'opt-out' clause in Article 6 which merely requires that "this is not contrary to public security or public order". It doesn't state what the 'special circumstances' are, and appears to leave it at the discretion of the member State. The Czech republic is an example, the default position is that automatic weapons are not authorised, but exemptions can be granted by the police. Finland, similarly, categorises them as 'Especially Dangerous Weapons", and will only grant permits on a rare basis.

I suspect that Greece may be an interesting example. Due to the proximity with Turkey, private posession and acquisition of automatic weapons (Including belt-fed machineguns!) in Crete is common on the theory that it helps public security for the lads to be able to effect a defence until the Greek military shows up.

Then again, it's not so much a matter of the law saying as much in writing as Crete is still subject to the Greek law restricting firearms, but it is consciously not enforced.

NTM

Eru · 25-07-2012 8:22pm

war_child wrote: »

This has to be one of the most stupid non sensical comments that has ever graced boards.

How on earth can you quantify that if the Gaurd was armed he wouldnt have been killed. Shooting at a car doesnt mean its going to stop.

And even if he had by some miracle actually killed the driver of the car the vehicle would have then become more dangerous as it had no one controlling it.

In relation to the soldier v guard debate , on the whole all soldiers are trained to use deadly force , the gardai are not , i honestly think this whole thread is ridiculous the fact that we dont have armed guards patrolling our streets our neighbourhood our counties is the main reason i stay in this country, arming the police is just far to American and with all honesty knowing some guards in this country i personally wouldnt arm them.

What a pathetic post.

Really, I couldn't even be bothered pointing out the glaring holes in it so I will leave it to the many others that surely will.

deadwood · 26-07-2012 12:40pm

Eru wrote: »

What a pathetic post.

Really, I couldn't even be bothered pointing out the glaring holes in it so I will leave it to the many others that surely will.

The clue might be in the name, there.

Poccington · 26-07-2012 12:57pm

war_child wrote: »

In relation to the soldier v guard debate , on the whole all soldiers are trained to use deadly force , the gardai are not , i honestly think this whole thread is ridiculous the fact that we dont have armed guards patrolling our streets our neighbourhood our counties is the main reason i stay in this country, arming the police is just far to American and with all honesty knowing some guards in this country i personally wouldnt arm them.

After coming out of training, a Private is expected to carry out certain duties which put him out on the streets, while armed with something a bit bigger than a pistol and the responsibility of using said firearm comes down solely on that Private's shoulders.

A member of AGS spends longer in training than a Recruit in the DF, so surely it's no major task for them to learn how to use a firearm and the consequent ROE.

Seriously, being "trained to use deadly force" is nothing more than being given ROE and having a brain in your head.

war_child · 26-07-2012 1:57pm

Eru wrote: »

What a pathetic post.

Really, I couldn't even be bothered pointing out the glaring holes in it so I will leave it to the many others that surely will.

ERU how bout ya shove it up the darkest part of my lily white ....far to many gardai on here defending their menial jobs ...how bout ya go and arrest someone(actual criminals not people havin a drink) do your jobs for once.... its fun to slag someone elses post.

Hooch · 26-07-2012 2:09pm

war_child wrote: »

ERU how bout ya shove it up the darkest part of my lily white ....far to many gardai on here defending their menial jobs ...how bout ya go and arrest someone(actual criminals not people havin a drink) do your jobs for once.... its fun to slag someone elses post.

Infracted, Attack the post, not the poster(s)

Locust · 26-07-2012 4:37pm

war_child wrote: »

ERU how bout ya shove it up the darkest part of my lily white ....far to many gardai on here defending their menial jobs ...how bout ya go and arrest someone(actual criminals not people havin a drink) do your jobs for once.... its fun to slag someone elses post.

One would initially make the assumption that you were sincerely interested in responses to the challenges you make. I am sorry to have made that assumption, as your intemperate language seems like a mask for your inability to engage in ordinary discourse. I am a critical and rational thinker, and I respect those fellow boardsies who are the same. Inferring that a member 'go arrest a real criminal rather than those out for a drink' is just being juvenile and says a lot about you as a person.

Are you able to return to a discussion? Would you not agree that if a disciplined and trained guard had a handgun as part of his utility belt at a checkpoint - that it would serve as a major deterrent to criminals?

cocoshovel · 26-07-2012 10:45pm

war_child wrote: »

ERU how bout ya shove it up the darkest part of my lily white ....far to many gardai on here defending their menial jobs ...how bout ya go and arrest someone(actual criminals not people havin a drink) do your jobs for once.... its fun to slag someone elses post.

Oh wow get a load of this ignorance. Im curious to know what type of job you have btw?

Preset No.3 · 19-08-2012 11:53pm

Something that I have always found interesting. With the exception of uniformed armed units, you rarely see plain clothes officers having their weapon on display. Just last week, I saw 3 people get out of an unmarked car, 2 of which made sure to cover their gun, the third didnt bother.

Is it unwritten policy that if an armed member is out of the car that the weapon be concealed? I would have thought in today society that having a show of strength would deter crime of sorts from happening.

Final question, are all armed plain clothes members using the same weapon? Is it the Sig Sauer P229? Can an officer purchase his own firearm?

Locust · 20-08-2012 12:30am

Preset No.3 wrote: »

...Is it unwritten policy that if an armed member is out of the car that the weapon be concealed? ...
Final question, are all armed plain clothes members using the same weapon? Is it the Sig Sauer P229? Can an officer purchase his own firearm?

Guards are not permitted to discuss operational tactics, policies or strategies, nor disclose what firearms they may or may not carry... Google, Wiki and Garda Press office are there for you if you want it.

You would presume if they are in plain clothes that it would defeat the purpose.

Zambia · 20-08-2012 12:48am

At some piont almost every police force in the world had the Old Smith & Wesson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_10

You have already mentioned the Sig
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer_P226

In relation to buying their own firearms that's a bit of an american thing I would be prepared to bet heavily against that it happens in many other 1st world countries.

Preset No.3 · 20-08-2012 7:59pm

Locust wrote: »

Guards are not permitted to discuss operational tactics, policies or strategies, nor disclose what firearms they may or may not carry... Google, Wiki and Garda Press office are there for you if you want it.

You would presume if they are in plain clothes that it would defeat the purpose.

Thanks Gard for that really unhelpful answer. Im glad I came to this thread in this section of boards to get an answer like that! :mad::mad:

By the way, when a member gets out of a Ford Mondeo with LEDs front of the dash, and side repeaters and in the rear window, they dont exactly look like they are hiding anything. My point is that if we saw more of a presence of armed garda, it might deter day to day petty crime. Im not talking about gun totting officers, but being in simple plain view!

goldie fish · 20-08-2012 8:04pm

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Thanks Gard for that really unhelpful answer. Im glad I came to this thread in this section of boards to get an answer like that! :mad::mad:

By the way, when a member gets out of a Ford Mondeo with LEDs front of the dash, and side repeaters and in the rear window, they dont exactly look like they are hiding anything. My point is that if we saw more of a presence of armed garda, it might deter day to day petty crime. Im not talking about gun totting officers, but being in simple plain view!

Thats what the RSU is for. You don't carry firearms to intimidate, you carry them for self defence etc.

Locust · 20-08-2012 8:23pm

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Thanks Gard for that really unhelpful answer. Im glad I came to this thread in this section of boards to get an answer like that! :mad::mad:

By the way, when a member gets out of a Ford Mondeo with LEDs front of the dash, and side repeaters and in the rear window, they dont exactly look like they are hiding anything. My point is that if we saw more of a presence of armed garda, it might deter day to day petty crime. Im not talking about gun totting officers, but being in simple plain view!

You also asked what kind of firearms members carry and asked about carriage procedures - Gardai won't discuss policies & tactics in a public forum for obvious reasons. Simples.

I fully agree with you though, armed presence will deter crime, yes the logic is quite straight forward. I would prefer to see more uniform RSU/ARV types personally. I don't 'fully' agree with detectives who are supposed to be there to investigate the piles of and piles of more serious crimes being taken off their investigative duties to perform armed checkpoints... (although I know it does fall under their role sometimes as well) but why can't we have more proper RSU types for that and leave detectives to their detecting. Maybe in a semi-perfect world, thats just my thoughts. As someone said its for self defense, perhaps in a semi-perfect world each guard would be fully trained and armed with Glock pistol, as that deterrant/self defense measure.

Preset No.3 · 20-08-2012 11:35pm

goldie fish wrote: »

Thats what the RSU is for. You don't carry firearms to intimidate, you carry them for self defence etc.

I never said intimidate, I said deter day to day crime!

CharlieCroker · 21-08-2012 1:01am

Locust wrote: »

perhaps in a semi-perfect world each guard would be fully trained and armed with Glock pistol, as that deterrant/self defense measure.

In a semi-perfect world, we wouldn't need them!

Zambia · 21-08-2012 1:10am

Guns don't deter crime. They deter f**king with the people that deter crime.

Qualitymark · 25-08-2012 7:46pm

***newsflash*** All nine of those shot and injured outside the Empire State Building were casualties of police gunfire...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/video-shows-police-shooting-of-man-who-killed-former-colleague-outside-empire-state-building/2012/08/24/a90c30ce-ee4c-11e1-b624-99dee49d8d67_story.html

St. Leibowitz · 25-08-2012 8:16pm

Zambia wrote: »

Guns don't deter crime. They deter f**king with the people that deter crime.

I don't really get this. Watched some of those late night shows on TV about British cops. They follow cops around various cities. EVERY time, whenever they do NI, the amount of abuse the cops get outside clubs in Derry or Belfast is hugely more than any other city. It seems to me that the public in NI are so accustomed to routinely armed police, and the yobs know that the cops can't use those weapons that the abuse they throw is an order of magnitude greater than elsewhere.

Your statement above implies that if you f**k with an armed cop, they'll pull the gun and use it. It that really what you think ?? Is that what'll happen ??? I don't think so.

Zambia · 25-08-2012 10:17pm

Words don't matter

monument · 26-08-2012 12:06am

Empire State Building shooting victim says NYPD fired 'randomly' into street

"Officers injured nine bystanders as they pursued gunman Jeffrey Johnson, who appeared to have just one intended target"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/24/empire-state-building-shooting-nypd-response

Eru · 28-08-2012 5:37pm

monument wrote: »

Empire State Building shooting victim says NYPD fired 'randomly' into street

"Officers injured nine bystanders as they pursued gunman Jeffrey Johnson, who appeared to have just one intended target"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/24/empire-state-building-shooting-nypd-response

Qualitymark wrote: »

***newsflash*** All nine of those shot and injured outside the Empire State Building were casualties of police gunfire...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/video-shows-police-shooting-of-man-who-killed-former-colleague-outside-empire-state-building/2012/08/24/a90c30ce-ee4c-11e1-b624-99dee49d8d67_story.html

Bastards! WHy did they not allow the murderer to kill them and then walk away? Weak willed pussy cops!

NEWSFLASH, only person killed by police was the original shooter with bystanders being hit by schrapnel. NYPD did not initiate a gun battle but they sure as **** stopped it and innocent people being KILLED

By the way Quality, you have just confirmed to me that your nothing nut a cop hater so ignore ignore ignore

Qualitymark · 28-08-2012 10:04pm

Eru wrote: »

Bastards! WHy did they not allow the murderer to kill them and then walk away? Weak willed pussy cops!

NEWSFLASH, only person killed by police was the original shooter with bystanders being hit by schrapnel. NYPD did not initiate a gun battle but they sure as **** stopped it and innocent people being KILLED

By the way Quality, you have just confirmed to me that your nothing nut a cop hater so ignore ignore ignore

I think the guy had killed himself already.

"Nothing nut a cop hater"???

Zambia · 29-08-2012 12:05pm

Qualitymark wrote: »

I think the guy had killed himself already.

What makes you think that?

Listen its a crappy situation to be in at the time nobody could be sure if this guy is going to roam the street popping people in the head.

The 2 officers suddenly found themselves facing a bloke pointing a gun at them.

I would not judge them to quickly unless you have been similar scenario.

Qualitymark · 29-08-2012 12:10pm

Zambia wrote: »

What makes you think that?

Listen its a crappy situation to be in at the time nobody could be sure if this guy is going to roam the street popping people in the head.

The 2 officers suddenly found themselves facing a bloke pointing a gun at them.

I would not judge them to quickly unless you have been similar scenario.

Oh, I was wrong - I'd heard that he killed himself, but in fact he was shot by police.

From your use of the term 'popping', may I guess that you are American?

Zambia · 29-08-2012 1:00pm

If you want to thats fine

monument · 29-08-2012 1:12pm

Eru wrote: »

Bastards! WHy did they not allow the murderer to kill them and then walk away? Weak willed pussy cops!

NEWSFLASH, only person killed by police was the original shooter with bystanders being hit by schrapnel. NYPD did not initiate a gun battle but they sure as **** stopped it and innocent people being KILLED

But others were shot by the police. I'm sure they are glad not to be dead, but not so glad they were shot by the people who are suposed to be protecting them.

There's still no sign that he was going to kill anybody else. Unlike some of the police officers, his shooting was very targeted.

Very good reason for guns to be limited to highly trained officers.

Zambia · 29-08-2012 1:22pm

monument wrote: »

There's still no sign that he was going to kill anybody else. Unlike some of the police officers, his shooting was very targeted.

Very good reason for guns to be limited to highly trained officers.

Yes and the beat cops can dodge "very targeted" .45 calibre bullets till they arrive.

source · 29-08-2012 1:31pm

monument wrote: »

Eru wrote: »

Bastards! WHy did they not allow the murderer to kill them and then walk away? Weak willed pussy cops!

NEWSFLASH, only person killed by police was the original shooter with bystanders being hit by schrapnel. NYPD did not initiate a gun battle but they sure as **** stopped it and innocent people being KILLED

But others were shot by the police. I'm sure they are glad not to be dead, but not so glad they were shot by the people who are suposed to be protecting them.

There's still no sign that he was going to kill anybody else. Unlike some of the police officers, his shooting was very targeted.

Very good reason for guns to be limited to highly trained officers.

How do you know he want going to shoot anyone else? He had already shot one person, police used necessary force, in a stressful and dangerous situation, in one of the most densely populated cities in the world.

Its easy to sit back in the comfort if your home and pick apart what happened, but firing a pistol is not as easy as the movies or video games make out. Innocent bystanders get hurt in these situations. It's regrettable but, if rather hear of a few injuries by ricochet, than to hear that the gunman managed to kill more people.

Policing is a dangerous profession, and as I said before in this thread, our police need the right tools to do the job. It just so happens the tool required for this profession is a firearm.

monument · 29-08-2012 3:54pm

source wrote: »

...police used necessary force...

I'd fully agree if they had not shot anybody else.

source wrote: »

Its easy to sit back in the comfort if your home and pick apart what happened, but firing a pistol is not as easy as the movies or video games make out. Innocent bystanders get hurt in these situations. It's regrettable but, if rather hear of a few injuries by ricochet, than to hear that the gunman managed to kill more people.

Actually firing a pistol in a lot of the computer games I've played is hard, or more so accuracy is hard. Accuracy is also hard in real life -- exactly why it should be left up to highly trained officers.

source wrote: »

Policing is a dangerous profession, and as I said before in this thread, our police need the right tools to do the job. It just so happens the tool required for this profession is a firearm.

You're not making the case for it and the NYC shooting goes against your cause.

bravestar · 29-08-2012 11:42pm

monument wrote: »

Actually firing a pistol in a lot of the computer games I've played is hard, or more so accuracy is hard. Accuracy is also hard in real life -- exactly why it should be left up to highly trained officers.

My god, you are actually comparing using firearms in computer games to real life, dynamic situations. I can tell you, they are not similar. You arguments might have more weight to them if they were grounded in reality. So why dont you go get some training in defensive pistol use, in REAL life, not on Xbox live, and then come back and tell us if you still think the same way?

IRLConor · 29-08-2012 11:51pm

bravestar wrote: »

So why dont you go get some training in defensive pistol use, in REAL life, not on Xbox live, and then come back and tell us if you still think the same way?

I would advise against that, unless monument wants to fall foul of this or this.

monument · 30-08-2012 12:01am

bravestar wrote: »

My god, you are actually comparing using firearms in computer games to real life, dynamic situations. I can tell you, they are not similar. You arguments might have more weight to them if they were grounded in reality. So why dont you go get some training in defensive pistol use, in REAL life, not on Xbox live, and then come back and tell us if you still think the same way?

No, I'm just saying that shooting people accuracy in computer games is not always as easy as the other poster made out.

There can also be "dynamic situations" in commuter games too, as well as highly advanced physics (to the point that they have to scale them back in many games to keep them fun) and there's moving targets etc. None of this is me seriously comparing games to a real situation that police can find them selves in!

bravestar · 30-08-2012 12:16am

IRLConor wrote: »

I would advise against that, unless monument wants to fall foul of this or this.

Im well aware of the law, thanks. Heaven forbid you could travel to a different country for such training...:rolleyes:

IRLConor · 30-08-2012 12:19am

bravestar wrote: »

Im well aware of the law, thanks. Heaven forbid you could travel to a different country for such training...:rolleyes:

It was more for monument's benefit than yours TBH. It's a stupid, NIMBY, Idontlikedalookadat kinda law, but then again that's nothing new with Irish firearms law as you know.

bravestar · 30-08-2012 12:31am

IRLConor wrote: »

It was more for monument's benefit than yours TBH. It's a stupid, NIMBY, Idontlikedalookadat kinda law, but then again that's nothing new with Irish firearms law as you know.

Couldn't agree with you more, and after reading over my last post to you, I see that it may have come across a bit hostile. Apologies for that, was meant in a light hearted way

audidiesel · 30-08-2012 1:04am

monument wrote: »

No, I'm just saying that shooting people accuracy in computer games is not always as easy as the other poster made out.

There can also be "dynamic situations" in commuter games too, as well as highly advanced physics (to the point that they have to scale them back in many games to keep them fun) and there's moving targets etc. None of this is me seriously comparing games to a real situation that police can find them selves in!

having a liking of fps and also having firing off at least a thousand rounds from a handgun over the last few years, i can confirm they are absolutely nothing alike in reality. recoil, adrenline, even types of clothing being worn all come into play.

its like playing a racing game and thinking you can drive a real racing car quickly around a track. even if you can do it well with all the game aids turned off, its not the same experience in reality.

i know your not seriously comparing the reality with games. but believe me they arent alike at all.

Manic Moran · 30-08-2012 6:08am

monument wrote: »

But others were shot by the police. I'm sure they are glad not to be dead, but not so glad they were shot by the people who are suposed to be protecting them.

There's still no sign that he was going to kill anybody else. Unlike some of the police officers, his shooting was very targeted.

Very good reason for guns to be limited to highly trained officers.

By the video, he pointed his firearm at them. Should they wait for him to shoot first, hope he misses, and then shoot back?

Eru · 30-08-2012 3:26pm

If ever a person deserved a comment that will result in a ban its you Monument.

Your sir are a complete and utter ****wit of the very, very highest caliber.

(PM sent Hooch)

monument · 30-08-2012 3:49pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

By the video, he pointed his firearm at them. Should they wait for him to shoot first, hope he misses, and then shoot back?

I'd expect them to do it without shooting nine bystanders. I'd expect them to be far better trained before getting guns to use in crowded areas.

Eru wrote: »

If ever a person deserved a comment that will result in a ban its you Monument.

Your sir are a complete and utter ****wit of the very, very highest caliber.

(PM sent Hooch)

Not a great sign of the level of maturity of the people calling for Irish officers to be armed.

audidiesel wrote: »

i know your not seriously comparing the reality with games. but believe me they arent alike at all.

Agreed.

Eru · 30-08-2012 4:22pm

monument wrote: »

Not a great sign of the level of maturity of the people calling for Irish officers to be armed.

Quote where I called for routine arming please

IRLConor · 30-08-2012 4:39pm

monument wrote: »

I'd expect them to do it without shooting nine bystanders. I'd expect them to be far better trained before getting guns to use in crowded areas.

Shooting a pistol accurately is hard even if you're not stressed.

Your options as the head of the NYPD are (in no particular order):

Withdraw firearms from the majority of your officers and only issue them to highly trained units. Watch as the public bitches about the inability of the police to respond to armed assholes and watch as your officers get shot in the line of duty.
Massively increase the firearms training hours. Watch as the public bitches about the reduced number of officers on the beat and the increased costs.
Switch from pistols to shoulder fired weapons (probably MP5 or M4 to match the current inventory for the ESU) since these are easier to shoot accurately. Watch as the public bitches about the increased cost and the militarisation of the police force.
Stick with the pistols and current training regimen and accept that sometimes innocent bystanders will get hit. Train your officers to use good judgement to minimise the total number of people injured/killed. Watch as the public bitches when innocent people get hit by police rounds.

The public will bitch no matter which option you take. You can save officers' lives, bystanders' lives or money - pick any two.

Hooch · 30-08-2012 5:06pm

Eru wrote: »

If ever a person deserved a comment that will result in a ban its you Monument.

Your sir are a complete and utter ****wit of the very, very highest caliber.

(PM sent Hooch)

Infracted for above comment.

No further comment on this needed.

Gardai carrying Guns

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