td's wont be allowed to take communion if they vote for abortion.

orestes · 03-05-2013 3:17pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

that's what pi$$es me off about the church, if they had any balls at all they would kick out homosexuals, divorcees, single mothers and single fathers....but they don't they pick and choose when it suits them...

Because they believe that you can be absolved and receive salvation through the church if you repent for your sins. Kicking somebody out would be to condemn them to hell, when underneath it all the church does want people to be saved through the grace of christ and the church.

o1s1n · 03-05-2013 3:17pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

It reads to me as a bit of a 'solo run'.

Have the hierarchy in Ireland made any comment since the wording was finalised?

Did you ever read the article?

Cardinal Burke is prefect of the Apostolic Signatura – the supreme authority on justice in the church apart from the Pope. He made the comments in an interview with the Irish 'Catholic Voice' newspaper.

Ergo - what he says goes.

wandatowell · 03-05-2013 3:19pm

stupid church

orestes · 03-05-2013 3:20pm

ilovesleep wrote: »

Someone can very much be a catholic, not support the RCC and believe in abortion.

No, they can't. They can be a christian, but not a catholic. If you disagree with the catholic church, you are not a catholic. Also, their interpretation of the bible supersedes yours, scripture is to be interpreted by the clergy and passed down to the masses, another basic piece of catholicism. If you want to interpret the bible for yourself, you aren't catholic.

ilovesleep · 03-05-2013 3:21pm

Karona wrote: »

What a crock of sh*t!!

Seriously, are we gonna go back to the 1940's?? Are they gonna get rid of contraception because it is against catholic law.... we are a country not a church so we shouldn't have to follow another law that isn't the law of the land.

I think the TD's should tell the pope where to to.

Exactly. I'm sicked at the op. It's just another source of control for the RCC but it's making the jobs of tds much harder forcing them into choosing between their religion and christ and doing what's good for Ireland as in allowing women a choice for abortion if it's needed for them.

kylith · 03-05-2013 3:22pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Mary Magdalene was not an abortion practitioner.

No, but St. Brigid was

Brigid, exercising with the most strength of her ineffable faith, blessed her, caused the fetus to disappear without coming to birth, and without pain.

anna.fun · 03-05-2013 3:23pm

RobertKK wrote: »

If a TD votes for abortion, then they TD is not a Catholic and is not a practrising Catholic.
A person who says they are Catholic and who go to mass everyweek, is not a Catholic if they don't live a Catholic life.

Voting for abortion puts one in conflict with Catholicism.

just because the td are giving (non) religious people to get an abortion, does not mean the td would choose abortion for oneself.

giving other people a choice regarding other people's life can hardly be seen as sin. the church doesn't like people living together as a couple without getting married and still this is a legal option

NIMAN · 03-05-2013 3:25pm

Why not ban them from attending mass altogether?

RobertKK · 03-05-2013 3:25pm

kylith wrote: »

No, but St. Brigid was

Could you expand on the source, please.

Doesn't say she passed anything, says it disappeared.

ScumLord · 03-05-2013 3:26pm

RobertKK wrote: »

If a TD votes for abortion, then they TD is not a Catholic and is not a practrising Catholic.
A person who says they are Catholic and who go to mass everyweek, is not a Catholic if they don't live a Catholic life.

Voting for abortion puts one in conflict with Catholicism.

I have no problem with Christian living Christian lives, but they're morals have no place in the politics that run this country. I want my politicians to base their moral compass in this millennia not in a time of slavery and magic.

Just like if I employed an engineer I'd want him to know what he's doing rather than thinking a prayer was an important part of his engineering process.

RobertKK · 03-05-2013 3:26pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Why not ban them from attending mass altogether?

They should be excommunicated. We had hypocrites like the labour party doing church gate collections...

orestes · 03-05-2013 3:26pm

anna.fun wrote: »

just because the td are giving (non) religious people to get an abortion, does not mean the td would choose abortion for oneself.

giving other people a choice regarding other people's life can hardly be seen as sin. the church doesn't like people living together as a couple without getting married and still this is a legal option

Yes, and in catholic terms people who live together without being married are living in sin and should be refused communion.

listermint · 03-05-2013 3:26pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Could you expand on the source, please.

Doesn't say she passed anything, says it disappeared.

ROFL

Sarky · 03-05-2013 3:30pm

Always amusing how many Catholics know so little about Catholicism.

crazy cabbage · 03-05-2013 3:32pm

For **** sake. The church is the biggest joke of an organisation ever.

Plus so the **** what if the TD's can't commit cannibalism. That is a plus +1 in my book... :rolleyes:

SALE NOW ON. LIMITED TIME ONLY
Any tds out there that want some high quality holy bread just pm me. Resurrected the dead lord myself and baked him into some home made bread. Guaranteed to be 2 times holier then church bread or your money back. And all for less money than you put into the church basket :rolleyes:

anna.fun · 03-05-2013 3:32pm

orestes wrote: »

Yes, and in catholic terms people who live together without being married are living in sin and should be refused communion.

So TDs should also be refused communion because they don't change the law, which makes living together as a couple legal?

efb · 03-05-2013 3:33pm

RobertKK wrote: »

They should be excommunicated. We had hypocrites like the labour party doing church gate collections...

When do Lab do church gate collections?

RobertKK · 03-05-2013 3:36pm

efb wrote: »

When do Lab do church gate collections?

Well if you read the Sindo sting tapes you will see the irony...before and after mass once a year, same with FG and FF.
Not sure if they did last year, but they did upto 2011.

ilovesleep · 03-05-2013 3:36pm

RobertKK wrote: »

They are no longer allowed to be a priest and are reported to the authorities.

The church has nothing against gays as people. It doesn't mean it has to swing in the wind to agree with your position on gay sex or marriage.

In relation to your first bit here:
Ireland was under control of the RCC for decades and in recent years a lot of revelations came out on abuse.

What did the vatican do to offer compensation, can you tell me?

In your second bit, you contridicted yourself by saying the church has nothing against gay people, they only condemn gay sex.

kylith · 03-05-2013 3:58pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Could you expand on the source, please.

Doesn't say she passed anything, says it disappeared.

Where do you think it 'disappeared' to? The incident was recorded by Cogitosus, and reported on http://choiceireland.blogspot.ie/2008/02/happy-st-brigids-day-irelands-first.html

In the middle ages abortion wasn't seen as a big deal at all, at least until the soul entered the foetus, i.e. when the baby started to kick. Even in the bible it's only punishable by a fine. Exodous 22-23

RobertKK · 03-05-2013 6:50pm

kylith wrote: »

Where do you think it 'disappeared' to? The incident was recorded by Cogitosus, and reported on http://choiceireland.blogspot.ie/2008/02/happy-st-brigids-day-irelands-first.html

In the middle ages abortion wasn't seen as a big deal at all, at least until the soul entered the foetus, i.e. when the baby started to kick. Even in the bible it's only punishable by a fine. Exodous 22-23

Choiceireland - a very non biased source....

It says "he shall pay as the judges determine." it doesn't say a fine.

bodice ripper · 03-05-2013 6:55pm

surely all they have to do is go to confession after and they are golden, right.

Piss poor threat by the intermediaries of the sky man.

Derpington95 · 03-05-2013 7:04pm

I think many TD's are actually scared to vote or speak in favour this bill because as we know it is the parishes and constituencies that will get them back into the Dáil. Imagine how many votes they would lose (especially from the elderly) if the Christians in the parish found out they were for abortion. Awful shcandle altogether.

St.Spodo · 03-05-2013 7:09pm

As a pro-choice non-believer, I wouldn't be critical of the church for this. The Catholic Church is explicitly anti-abortion, seeing it as murder(most here including me won't agree, but that's besides the point), so it's a logical step to take action against those who are committing in their eyes one of the mortal sins. On another note, Sean Brady has today criticised the immorality of our new abortion law, stressing the importance of our existing civil law. Irony RIP.

admiralofthefleet · 03-05-2013 7:11pm

an easy way to solve all this is to just outlaw the catholic 'religion' and seize its assets

RobertKK · 03-05-2013 7:14pm

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

an easy way to solve all this is to just outlaw the catholic 'religion' and seize its assets

Eamon Gilmore would love to do that.

lazygal · 03-05-2013 7:18pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Eamon Gilmore would love to do that.

And I would applaud him for doing so. I'm getting mighty sick of men with collars who believe in supernatural beings having a national platform to spread their misogyny and be given air and TV time for pronouncements like this.

admiralofthefleet · 03-05-2013 7:18pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Eamon Gilmore would love to do that.

so would i and the majority of the population im sure

lazygal · 03-05-2013 7:19pm

Sarky wrote: »

Always amusing how many Catholics know so little about Catholicism.

Non Catholics: Educating Catholics about the real aspects of their faith since "insert a long time ago here.'

P_1 · 03-05-2013 7:23pm

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

so would i and the majority of the population im sure

Not too sure on that tbh.

Best way would be to have independent accountants look over the Church's books and deduct any 'profit' that they make once their charity is looked after.

A big trick was missed in not forcing the sale of any excess land a few years back mind

Pretzill · 03-05-2013 7:27pm

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

so they say nothing when scum like brady swears boys to secrecy yet are very quick out of the trap when it comes to them being upset

animals

Don't insult animals

Call me Al · 03-05-2013 7:42pm

So is this special treatment recommended only for Irish TDs, or does it also impact politicians living in other predominantly Catholic countries with liberal abortion laws (which is pretty much every catholic country I can think of in Europe).
I mean surely they must now be in the moral position of having to change these ungodly countries they all live in.

In fact I don't know how these priests can being themselves to live amongst all these murderous societies! Unbearable places they must be....

Knasher · 03-05-2013 8:13pm

Call me Al wrote: »

So is this special treatment recommended only for Irish TDs

I've heard the vice president of the US (who is catholic), being threatened with it also.

Míshásta · 03-05-2013 9:17pm

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

an easy way to solve all this is to just outlaw the catholic 'religion' and seize its assets

That's already been tried but it didn't work. Haven't you heard of the Penal Laws?

kowloon · 03-05-2013 9:27pm

ScumLord wrote: »

Just like if I employed an engineer I'd want him to know what he's doing rather than thinking a prayer was an important part of his engineering process.

I dunno, they did manage to build a boat big enough to hold enough of everything to respawn the planet with life. Out of wood. It shivers me timbers to hear someone ignore feats of biblical engineering so quickly.

Reindeer · 03-05-2013 9:37pm

awec wrote: »

It's also pretty hilarious that an organisation like the church is trying to take the moral high ground on this issue.

Is Sean Brady allowed to take communion?

They have "morals" when it suits.

Well, coercion and blackmail aren't mentioned specifically in the ten commandments so...

kraggy · 03-05-2013 9:44pm

No mention on RTE about this as far as I can see.

Nodin · 03-05-2013 10:58pm

kraggy wrote: »

No mention on RTE about this as far as I can see.

Thats because....

Bishops ‘have not discussed’ barring politicians from
communion over abortion stance

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bishops-have-not-discussed-barring-politicians-from-communion-over-abortion-stance-29240306.html

dixiefly · 03-05-2013 11:13pm

Has anyone a link to where the Catholic Church have said what is claimed in the OP?

kraggy · 03-05-2013 11:14pm

Nodin wrote: »

Thats because....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bishops-have-not-discussed-barring-politicians-from-communion-over-abortion-stance-29240306.html

I'm talking about the guy in Rome, not the Irish bishops.

Edit: As well as the Irish bishops i.e. I haven't seen anything about either on RTE. Just about Brady saying that aborition is immoral.

Nodin · 03-05-2013 11:16pm

dixiefly wrote: »

Has anyone a link to where the Catholic Church have said what is claimed in the OP?

As far as I know, they didn't say it, and I'm fairly sure somebody would have noticed if they did. Also, my post before this one.

Arpa · 03-05-2013 11:18pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Bill them for payouts the victims of clerical child abuse received - that will soften their cough.

The church should realise its on thin ice and avoid political discourse.

Sadly though, no matter how much thin ice the Church is on they will always have a following. There's a reason the congregation are called sheep...all followng blindly no matter what happens.

They don't need to be low key or avoid political discourse...they have enough old women clutching crucifixes around the globe to keep them going and it has been like that for hundreds of years. They're here to stay unfortunately...we just need to diminish their power...first thing being...reduce the sway they hold in Ireland. For too long we've had the weight of this fairytale movement on our shoulders.

kraggy · 03-05-2013 11:19pm

Am I right in assuming that the new legislation doesn't provide for somebody who has been raped and therefore she must have the baby unless she is suicidal?

Nodin · 03-05-2013 11:26pm

kraggy wrote: »

Am I right in assuming that the new legislation doesn't provide for somebody who has been raped and therefore she must have the baby unless she is suicidal?

Correct.

Also the life of the mother has to be threatened, as distinct from the health.

Fatal foetal abnormalities aren't covered either.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/a-very-real-tragedy-behind-a-human-rights-case-230194.html

jobeenfitz · 03-05-2013 11:27pm

greenpilot wrote: »

Just heard this on RTE. Is this the last gasp of a dying church?

Hope they die fast, they have really fukcd up the minds of too many people in this country especially any of us born in the 60's and before.

Good riddance, Saint Patrick and all your snakes.

Busted Flat. · 03-05-2013 11:28pm

greenpilot wrote: »

Just heard this on RTE. Is this the last gasp of a dying church?

I do not like this present regime, but if they stand up to these perverts, and their sick child molesting views I may support them the next time out.

kraggy · 03-05-2013 11:42pm

Nodin wrote: »

Correct.

Also the life of the mother has to be threatened, as distinct from the health.

Fatal foetal abnormalities aren't covered either.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/a-very-real-tragedy-behind-a-human-rights-case-230194.html

I've just been reading the Guardian's article here http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/03/ireland-pro-choice-campaign-risk-prison

While reading it, at times I was thinking to myself, what sort of barbaric country would imprison people forr 14 years for handing out information about abortions in Britain? And then I remember that I'm reading about my own country.

Read the article in the link. It's ****ing ludicrous. Supposedly the women on the streets in Galway and Dublin who are handing out info this week could go to prison for up to 14 years merely for providing information. I didn't know this was the case. Is it a case that seeking information is allowed but providing it is not?

And also, the issues of rape and incest are not being dealt with in this legislation. What the actual..? And furthermore, women who have been told that their foetuses are not going to make much more than minutes of life after birth are still going to be forced to go through with their pregnancies all the way through birth. For what? Who does that benefit?

People reading about all of this in other countries must think we're the most backward shíthole on the entire planet.

Lost for words.

jobeenfitz · 03-05-2013 11:57pm

kraggy wrote: »

I've just been reading the Guardian's article here http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/03/ireland-pro-choice-campaign-risk-prison

While reading it, at times I was thinking to myself, what sort of barbaric country would imprison people forr 14 years for handing out information about abortions in Britain? And then I remember that I'm reading about my own country.

Read the article in the link. It's ****ing ludicrous. Supposedly the women on the streets in Galway and Dublin who are handing out info this week could go to prison for up to 14 years merely for providing information. I didn't know this was the case. Is it a case that seeking information is allowed but providing it is not?

And also, the issues of rape and incest are not being dealt with in this legislation. What the actual..? And furthermore, women who have been told that their foetuses are not going to make much more than minutes of life after birth are still going to be forced to go through with their pregnancies all the way through birth. For what? Who does that benefit?

People reading about all of this in other countries must think we're the most backward shíthole on the entire planet.

Lost for words.

It makes it a little easier to understand when you factor in that most of the population including our law makers were all brainwashed by the catholic church. Its great to see that most of the young people now are not accepting without questioning and thinking for themselves.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 04-05-2013 12:02am

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Hope they die fast, they have really fukcd up the minds of too many people in this country especially any of us born in the 60's and before.

Good riddance, Saint Patrick and all your snakes.

They aren't going anywhere imo, a worldwide religion with over 1 billion followers. I do hope that they reform, a new Vatican Council maybe to bring widespread meaningful change, It can happen but it will take a strong leader to do it. The problem in Rome is that the Curia tie up each conclave to ensure a new Pope doesn't ruffle any feathers, they're still seeding from John XXIII, nobody knew of his intentions when he was made Pope, they assumed he was a quiet old man who they could control

jobeenfitz · 04-05-2013 12:11am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

They aren't going anywhere imo, a worldwide religion with over 1 billion followers. I do hope that they reform, a new Vatican Council maybe to bring widespread meaningful change, It can happen but it will take a strong leader to do it. The problem in Rome is that the Curia tie up each conclave to ensure a new Pope doesn't ruffle any feathers, they're still seeding from John XXIII, nobody knew of his intentions when he was made Pope, they assumed he was a quiet old man who they could control

Ye as much as I may dislike it "they" probably wont be going away any time soon.
Maybe our alien ancesters will return to straighten it all out soon.

td's wont be allowed to take communion if they vote for abortion.

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