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Month and Week Decided this is getting Real

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    marienbad wrote: »
    You have no intention of voting yes , do the right thing because it is the right thing or else fcuk off and stop trolling, this is not an auction.

    Please dont accuse another poster of being a troll. Use the report post button.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Daith wrote: »
    Yeah that sounds better that what I was thinking. The only thing is regarding "sex" though. Wouldn't that lead to "floodgate" arguments. Could it not just be left at "All laws enacted by the State on a person’s eligibility to marry shall be made without distinction of gender."

    Actually the legislation mentions same sex so yeah could work.

    I included sex because the Constitution uses that word for other rights (e.g. No person may be excluded from Irish nationality and citizenship by reason of the sex of such person) but gender alone might work too.

    In any case, whatever the final wording, it doesn't need to be anything complicated. It just needs to state that people can't be barred from marriage because of their sex/gender.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭Coeurdepirate


    I have to say I admire all of your patience in managing to continuously reply to anony without completely losing your shít. I've genuinely lost count of the amount of times it has been explained in this thread that it's already illegal to discriminate customers.

    Anyway, I'm currently living in Germany and will be until next September. I'm planning on flying home to vote, but still am slightly annoyed to miss out on all of the campaigning, both for and against. Therefore pleeeease keep this forum updated once it begins!


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Great article from the current issue of GCN
    With the civil marriage equality referendum fast approaching, we all need to get armed and ready. Emotional buttons are likely to be pressed in different ways over the coming months. The tone of the opposition will sting like hell. We’ll all be facing comments about our lives and lifestyles, who we are, and what other people think we are, and we’ll be made vulnerable, especially those of us who aren't out, or who have self-esteem issues rooted in attitudes to our sexual orientation.

    But we’re going to have to rise above it all, remain positive and in the face of opposition, we’re all going to be challenged to step up and speak out one way or another. It might be in our staff rooms, it might be at our Christmas dinner tables, maybe it will be as simple as changing our Facebook/twitter profile pictures to one of those funky ‘Yes’ designs. For many of us, it will be about getting out there, knocking on doors, and for the first time in our lives, canvassing for votes.

    Of course, not everyone is a political junkie or activist. For many, referendums and elections are about ‘politics’ and political parties, which they find alienating. But the same-sex marriage referendum will be the best kind of voting opportunity, because it’s dealing with real-life, human stuff.
    I understand that the idea of knocking on people’s doors, asking them to vote and trying to persuade them how to vote is daunting. It conjures up all manner of fears and worst-case scenarios. I’ve been around a few blocks and worn out a few shoes myself, for a broad range of elections and I still get the heebie-jeebies. But if you go out canvassing for same-sex marriage, you won’t be alone in leaving your comfort zone. It’s rare that a referendum is about things like the equality of love. Politicians and political activists are hardly used to talking about same same-sex partners and their families.

    But going out, knocking on doors and talking about these things is fundamentally what it will take to get the referendum passed.

    Canvassers, both first time and seasoned, may be worried about the reactions they get on doorsteps, but think about the message we have to give. Passing this referendum won’t just be good for the LGBT-identifying couples who might one day choose to get married. Equality in all its measures is good for everybody, as is choice. The issues at the heart of the question this referendum will ask are centred on acceptance, respect and inclusion. Knowing this will make asking for support easier. When it comes to promoting democracy and equality, it’s hard to get it wrong and it’s hard to argue against.

    Over the years I’ve had a blast canvassing. I got to meet new people, make new friends and catch-up with old ones. I’ve stood at DART stations at dawn and on high streets across the island, alone and with like-minded colleagues, having the craic, wearing the t-shirt, creating the photo opp and spreading the word.

    Last year I got involved with the successful Seanad Referendum campaign. It was a such a great experience and at the end of six months I came away with new skills, essentially a changed woman. Changed by the knowledge that even when the task feels too big, the obstacles insurmountable, the challenge too personal; even when the opposition feels stronger and wealthier, it never pays to give up. I also learned that you don’t need to be an expert to share your story or voice your opinion and it’s okay to follow your own initiatives. I wrote my own articles and got them published. I accepted invitations to participate in debates against Government Ministers in community centres; I made my own signs and designed my own campaigning materials. During the Seanad campaign, one of my morning mantras was: “What can I do today to secure a vote?” Some days all I could do was re-tweet and others were off-the-scale exciting. I wholeheartedly accept that not everyone has a burning desire to help improve the world through the joys of noise-making or petition signing. And just because someone isn’t a card-carrying, placard-waving political animal, it doesn’t mean they aren’t making a difference in their community or contributing to a cause.

    The key to winning this referendum will be hearing the call for a ‘Yes’ vote from a broad array of voices in and outside of the LGBT community. The ‘Yes Equality’ campaign led the way on this strategy with the joined-up thinking of GLEN, ICCL and Marriage Equality. But other civic groups are already joining in to help maximise the message by reaching out to their members and constituents. We’re seeing the Trade Union movement for example launching its ‘Yes2Equality’ campaign. As a campaign activist of SIPTU LGBTQ Network I have been addressing Divisional conferences and asking ordinary members all around the country to support their LGBT co-workers and vote yes next spring. USI have been at universities and colleges around the country ensuring students are ready and registered to vote.

    Activism comes in all sorts of shapes and guises, and every effort counts. Every tweet, re-tweet, share, ‘like’, badge worn, leaflet distributed, public forum conversation, local newspaper article, small gathering, chat with your nearest and dearest, even wearing a t-shirt to work – all of it will count when it comes to the end result. You don’t need to be an expert; all you need is to be willing, able and positive about change.

    The ‘Yes Equality’ campaign has excellent materials and resources for canvassing with. Go online and download the ‘Action Pack’. It’s a do it yourself guide to organising your own events and encouraging group initiatives.

    If you have an idea that you think will help change or encourage hearts and minds to support the extension of civil marriage to same-sex couples, get out and act on it.

    I firmly believe that the outcome of this referendum goes beyond the extension of civil marriage and belongs to no one group or special couple. It will ultimately serve to strengthen our democracy and pave a better and more inclusive way for future generations.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Is it too late to register? I didn't think I would be resident in the state at the time. Turns out I will


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Is it too late to register? I didn't think I would be resident in the state at the time. Turns out I will

    No.

    You will have to go onto the supplementary register though. That means you have to get forms stamped by the gardai.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,226 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Aodhan O'Riordan (Lab) has justified fears about the success of this referendum and said if it were held now it simply would not pass.

    Voter complacency and 'taking for granted' will be the biggest factors. Not a ringing endorsement, I hope their campaign plan is pretty robust and visible.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/labour-minister-warns-samesex-marriage-poll-faces-shock-defeat-30874701.html

    There is also the 'Stick it to the government' crowd as epitomised by this comment, this person needs a reality check I think.
    As long as Irish Water survives, I will oppose everything this Government favours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Hopefully somebody with that level of logic and engagement also is unlikely to get away from the keyboard/telly to vote their anti-FG/Lab opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I'm fascinated by the use of the term "their campaign". To me thats suggesting that the campaign in favour should only be carried out by parties and seasoned campaigners.

    To me that is part of what Aodhain O Riordain is saying. He is saying the campaign should be largescale.

    I've said it before and I will say it again the campaign needs YOU - every reader here to get involved.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Aodhan O'Riordan (Lab) has justified fears about the success of this referendum and said if it were held now it simply would not pass.

    Voter complacency and 'taking for granted' will be the biggest factors. Not a ringing endorsement, I hope their campaign plan is pretty robust and visible.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/labour-minister-warns-samesex-marriage-poll-faces-shock-defeat-30874701.html

    There is also the 'Stick it to the government' crowd as epitomised by this comment, this person needs a reality check I think.

    I just see this as a strategy to ensure the Yes voters actually come out to vote.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Daith


    I just see this as a strategy to ensure the Yes voters actually come out to vote.

    Esp when you hear things like people want the referendum month changed because they're off to Gran Canaria.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I just see this as a strategy to ensure the Yes voters actually come out to vote.

    I see it as much more. To me it really is a call to action to those whove never campaigned before to do so.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Daith wrote: »
    Esp when you hear things like people want the referendum month changed because they're off to Gran Canaria.

    My first thought when I heard of the May date was Gran Canaria Pride! I have no idea how many Irish people go to it, but I would guess it runs into the hundreds, if not thousands.

    I see the student's union wants a late April date rather than May.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Daith wrote: »
    Esp when you hear things like people want the referendum month changed because they're off to Gran Canaria.

    People and their priorities....


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Voter complacency and 'taking for granted' will be the biggest factors.

    I had what can only be called a BIG party in my house this week for new year.

    And due to my relationship and my status with - some - people I had a wonderful cross section of the gay community in my house this week.

    And amazingly although I did not preach the referendum but mentioned it here and there - my experience is that even the H.community that I casually associate might not even be aware this is coming up.

    And as I always tell people anecdote is worth nothing. This might just tell you about the kind of people who end up at my parties - but -
    I've said it before and I will say it again the campaign needs YOU - every reader here to get involved.

    My feeling is you could even get involved by just bring it up. Do not preach it - declare who should vote what or why (unless they directly ask of course! Then give it loads) but just bring it up. So what you can to just make sure it is discussed - that people know it is coming - that it is part of the public consciousness.

    Cos if even a straight (albeit weird relationship) guy like me has to inform people of it - theres a whole lot of talking out there that needs to still be done.

    And what I have learned in my time is that when people TALK about this - it always goes our way. It is when we do not talk it falls apart.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Yeah even a simple "Did you hear there's a referendum coming up" could do wonders for encouraging word of mouth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭AfterDusk


    Apologies if it's been asked already, but if we get a Yes vote how long would it take for gay marriage to be legalised? Is it instant?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    No it just removes the possibility of later legislation being unconstitutional.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    AfterDusk wrote: »
    Apologies if it's been asked already, but if we get a Yes vote how long would it take for gay marriage to be legalised? Is it instant?

    No.

    There would have to be law introduced. Its difficult to say how long that could take. Im guessing a year maybe. Theres a lot of things to take into account. What happens people who entered civil partnerships but dont want to be married for example.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    I'd say a year at least. Probably enacted by Q4 2016.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Daith


    Well if the Children and Family Bill is anything to go by...


  • Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Ash885


    If anyone on twitter found those sodomy tweets, they're quite hilarious. Maybe it's the spelling mistakes referencing the bible idk.

    What's even more hilarious are the holier-than-thou who claim it's gay people who made the leaflets in the first place!


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