Lidl plans Castleknock store

Pat Dunne wrote: »

And this people tends to call in for a few items on the way by his local Lidl as well.

Walking?

Rosser wrote: »

It has already done what inappropriate developments in small locations do, Castlenock Flowers (a landmark in the village) has shut it’s shop after almost 30 years as their building is on the redevelopment site.

If anyone thinks that Lidl was ever going to do anything for Castlenock then perhaps a rethink is in order. This follows the relocation of Castlenock Mermorials (headstones) who also did not have their lease renewed by Lidl.

There is zero chance this would have got permission in Malahide for example where Fingal pay a disproportionate amount of attention. The only thing I see Fingal doing is producing a glossy plan and doing f-all about it....

Fingal initially refused it. Their eventual permission was endorsed by Bord Pleanala so this is nonsense.

People just don't want development of any kind. I understand why but it's not realistic.

It won't make any difference to the rush hour traffic. Why? Because people don't drive to the supermarket at 8am on a weekday. So maybe there'll be additional traffic off-peak but what can you do. Having it in the village at least offers people the option to walk if they wish.

As for the craft butcher and fishmonger, well, I've been here all my life and I don't know when we last had a fishmonger or butcher in Castleknock. The absence of a supermarket has not led to these businesses opening up, so a bit of a red herring to say that its presence will prevent them. However, the butcher and fishmonger in Roselawn seem to do just fine being adjacent to Tesco, so who knows, maybe Lidl will actually increase the likelihood of these type of shops opening.

beauf wrote: »

I've never seen a traffic jam around Roselawn Tesco. So that's an invalid comparison.

My comparison to Roselawn had nothing to do with traffic, it had to do with the viability of smaller retailers.

beauf wrote: »

Traffic queues in Castlknock 4~7.30 PM. Usually.

Indeed, but they're never as bad as in the morning so likewise the impact of Lidl won't be as bad.

beauf wrote: »

Did there not used to be butcher in where the silver spoon is. Either behind or in front? There is a butcher in Laurel Lodge.

You're right, but that is long, long, gone. There is a butcher in Laurel Lodge, yes - not sure that's relevant to Lidl though.

Myos doesn't get much traffic of any kind these days, it's dead.

Maybe you think they'd be ok with an ikea...

Rosser wrote: »

The Lidl at Hanlon’s corner is lovely but it’s not a Lidl issue it’s a traffic issue. Where I live we already have the staff from the shops in the Castlecourt Centre parking outside our houses because they’re not allowed take customer parking so a commercial entity makes it’s problem my problem.

If you look at the history of those shops for example, planning rejected by Fingal (probably DCC at the time) appealed to An Bord Plenala who approved it. Aldi got turned down in Clonsilla and Lidl get approved in Castleknock, not logic.

Fingal gave permission to demolish Ennis House beside Topaz when it’s 115 years there, doesn’t sound much like protecting the village character.

It's only 'not logic' if your assumption is that every application must be granted or every application must be refused. The reality is that every application is reviewed on its own merits. Aldi being refused permission in Clonsilla doesn't make the Castleknock development any more or less viable.

That place beside the Topaz was derelict for as long as I can remember. I'm not sure what it was contributing to the village character.

Former Former wrote: »

...That place beside the Topaz was derelict for as long as I can remember. I'm not sure what it was contributing to the village character.

Zero traffic...

I use East Wall road a lot. Traffic has been hugely effected there over the past few years. But that not just because of the shops.
Its a main route to the East link, Fairview, Tunnel and anywhere around the port. Its a major route. There is a ton of new housing, apartments, offices etc. Both in the area and feeding into East wall.
East Wall road for me used to be a 5 mins run in the morning, its not more like 20 mins. Used to be 10 mins in the evening now its queued back to the port.
There's also been continuous road works on some of the alternative roads around Castlforbes, Sheriff Street forcing more traffic down East Wall.

So there would be no point complaining about traffic from the Aldi/Lidl on East Wall. They do add more traffic. (and at a pinch point of traffic light and pedestrian crossing). But they have brought a lot of missing life and amenities to a previously very neglected area.

Putting it on a greenfield site creates more traffic, just in a different location, it sucks people and money out of the village centre and the urban sprawl continues.

That would be atrocious planning.

Having an anchor in the village means we have some prospect of a sustainable centre. If we're genuinely serious about reducing our use of cars, then we can't keep building generic boxes on the outskirts of towns and making everyone drive there.

I believe at one stage Tesco actually looked at that site. They either thought planning was more hassle than it was worth, or just not a good location for the type of store they wanted there.

I wonder what would be a good idea for that location. Probably apartments, just not as many as originally proposed. TBH even a Aldi or Lidl would be more reasonable if the entrance was not onto Castleknock Road. Or if they could move much of the through traffic away from the village.

beauf wrote: »

Considering its with walking distance of the bus, train, Ashtown, Castleknock, and effectively on the main commuting route. It won't drag traffic anywhere. Its already passing it.

I thought people were arguing it would reduce traffic. Now your saying it will create a load more traffic. Which was the issue people had with it in the first place.
Lets look at all the other Supermarkets in Dublin15, SuperValue, Tesco, Aldi, Lidl they all have large very busy car parks even where they are in the middle of a village or housing estate.
So it will drag traffic from all around to Castleknock. Probably kill off all the other small convenience/food shops.

Castleknock is booming with Restaurants, pubs, Cafes. How it will suck customers out of these business I have no idea. Lets go for drinks and a meal. No lets go to Lidl instead. Makes no sense.

I assume someone will bring up an example of how an Lidl keep some village alive in ballyinthemiddleofnowehere or another ludicrous comparison.

No, it's not. Blanch village is booming, there's another cafe opening very shortly to add to the four already there, the four restaurants, I don't know how many really good takeaways and we even have a trendy craft beer pub that sells gin in fishbowl glasses for ludicrous prices. It's awesome to see Blanch doing so well.

What would a supermarket do for Castleknock? The concept of the "anchor tenant" is basically page 1 of retail. People have to go to a supermarket for their groceries; while they're at it, they'll go to the pharmacy, the butcher, hairdresser, whatever.

I do my shopping in Roselawn and every week I go into the cafe afterwards, a cafe that is always busy and which is situated between a fishmonger and a butcher.

I drive to Tesco because no one can carry seven bags of groceries home, no matter how close they live. However, once I'm there, I go into all the other ancillary shops, shops which would go bust overnight without Tesco, without having to drive elsewhere. It's one car journey as opposed to multiple.

If you plonk Lidl on the Navan Road or some other greenfield site, then people go to Lidl and do their shopping. Then they have to get back into their car and drive elsewhere to go to the pharmacy, so you end up with MORE car journeys.

And instead of going to the butcher or fishmonger, they say "f**k it, I'll just get my meat and fish here", so the smaller shops lose out and more money goes to the supermarket.

Having Lidl in Castleknock won't reduce traffic in the village, I don't think anyone has said it would. However, the alternatives would also create more traffic but without the trade-off benefits. Traffic is not the be-all and end-all.

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Maybe 15 years ago...

We really are an instant gratification culture aren't we. If something has been opened a year its ancient.

beauf wrote: »

... or they'll just do it the supermarket and not go into the other shops. because generally supermarkets kill off competition.



So people will drive anyway to a supermarket.



So we have walking is nonsense, and thus greenfield is nonsense.
No impact on traffic is nonsense.
Basically you want to reduce traffic but all your proposals increase it.

Traffic is the only issue people have with Lidl going in here, and its traffic in the village not traffic half a mile away where people will be largely unaffected by it.

Ugh, the surest sign of a very poor argument is when you selectively quote the bits that suit your argument then leave out the bits that completely contradict it.

Your points are not coherent but when you stick rigidly to a single dogma, that is always going to be the outcome.

We have to build things; houses, shops, roads, whatever. All we can do is put them in the best places possible. People who oppose every new brick and every new slab of concrete live in a fantasy world that the rest of us don't have the luxury of inhabiting.

Good luck.