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Feral teenage gangs - what can be done to protect us?

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    #92
    ascanbe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    I haven't heard of these feral teenage gangs but if they're bothering you they're probably just looking for food; put a plate of leftovers outside at night and that should satisfy them.
    Having grown up in the wild and reached their teens, it's probably too late for them to accliamatise successfully into mainstream society; besides they're obviously thriving in their natural enviroment and it would be best for all concerned to leave them be.
    I'd be much more concerned with developing a cogent social policy aimed towards limiting the anti-social problems associated with some of the teens who live amongst us; and investi,ng meaningfully in it.
    Heavy investment in education and reasonably financed, streamlined social services is the way to go.
    I know there are many people who grow up in less than perfect situations who manage to adapt and make good, law-abiding citizens of themselves; these people are to be applauded.
    Often, though, these people use themselves and are used by others as examples of why there is no point in trying to invest in the 'scum'.
    Some young people can't, by themselves, overcome the difficult situations they find themselves born into; if the thought of giving these people a leg-up bothers you just take into account the fact that it will, ultimately, benifit everyone.


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    #93
    citizen_p
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭citizen_p


    worst i seen (and im around the age in qustion) was beide the bus stop on eden quay (the boardwalk bit) where a few lads assaulted 2 polish guys. ohh and threw his trousers into the river
    ...when the gardai arrived the lads walked off and the two polish lads were all that was left. they then just sat back down.


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    #94
    Lone Stone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭Lone Stone


    A polish family moved in down the road from me a year ago, They never really spoke to anyone and there kid was a wild child couldnt speak a word of english and they always left him alone he was about 6.

    Anyway never had any trouble with them but one day there kid decide my mams wheel chair was a taxi and jumped on the back of it when she was going to the shops other than i never had any problems with them.

    But a bunch of feckin dublin scummy teenaged basterd from around here decided it would be funny to pour petrol all over there car and set it on fire.
    :mad:

    ugh i dont even know where to start like i was a bit of a wild teen myself but id never burn someone's car or harase someone cause there foreign.


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    #95
    dsmythy
    Registered Users Posts: 10,513 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    Proper citizen groups. Neighbourhood Watch doesn't really cut it. One issue from areas where there is a problem is that people won't get involved because then their own selfs or homes are targetted. If you can get the whole community as one to show intolerance to even the smallest of anti-social anti-community incidents then the gangs can't gain their retribution unless they want to smash up every single house on the estate.


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    #96
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Nobody cares. You might aswell close this thread. This topic has been dicussed countless times before and will continue to be discussed but at the end of the day nobody cares, especially the people with the power to change the situation.


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    #97
    RMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    So let me get this straight:

    * Guards are understaffed
    * No curfew
    * No/few after-school programs
    * No active parents - and especially no active fathers - in many of these homes

    Therefore, there is no figure of authority at home, in school, or in the streets that could check anti-social behavior from kids. Something has to give here; at the point where people in a community are too terrified to tell 14 year old kids to keep it moving, you're ****ed.

    A curfew might be a good start. The kids who aren't causing problems will be more likely to observe it, and the kids who are willing to break the law are the ones that the guards would be likely to have to deal with anyway. Plus if is the kind of curfew where you parents have to come get you and/or are fined, 2-3 months of strict enforcement at the outset might get the parents (even if they are deadbeats) to also help with enforcement if, for no other reason, to save themselves the bother of having to pay and/or go to the police station. So it may end up being only a short-term strain on the guards.

    I'm sorry, but why the **** should I have to stay at home because of other people's actions? How about to stem violent drunken assaults and other alcohol related crime we simply ban people consuming alcohol after say 9 O'clock?

    Same situation, I'm just removing the cause of the crime. Let me guess, you don't like that idea because you generally don't cause trouble after drinking? Unfair isn't it you suffer for other people's actions? This is putting yourself in my shoes, someone who doesn't break the law but now would be under curfew because of others.


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    #98
    caffrey
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭caffrey


    I too have seen teenagers who harass shop attendants/security Ireland. I was away on a trip for a nice weekend in manchester(as I have done in a few english cities). Over the weekend I was out and about as you do, not a spot of bother. I come back and am getting a taxi down the quays(about 3pm in the day), I see 3 lads being chased from a centra with items in hands, there are more yobs waiting outside so the security(foreign) stay back a bit. The "yobs" proceed to moon and jeer at the security while they call the cops. I just think to myself what tourists thought of that and you can be sure plenty saw it on the quays. this is indeed mild compared to the incident the OP mentions but is another instance where they give ireland a bad name.

    this adds to other examples of pissing in the main streets, stories of foreigners defrauding the system(i know there are those that do but there are plenty of irish doing it too), africans all being reffered to as "them nigerians" etc etc, our country is becoming more and more xenophobic/rasist and there will be little done, it will be ignored or the blame will most likely be put on people feeling bad because of the recession or some other tripe just like the usual attitude that not only the government have but a lot of people in society, "A sure what can ya do", "boys will be boys", "that money was just resting in my account", "I do not recall....


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    #99
    ToniTuddle
    Registered Users Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭ToniTuddle


    It doesn't just happen in Dublin or bigger towns.

    The hatred and ignorance towards Polish/Lithuanian/Slovakian...any of them, is unreal in small towns/areas.

    I know from being friends with a lot of these good, honest people and have been on the receiving end of abuse.
    For just even thinking about associating with them, nevermind when I actually hung out with them! It could have ended fatal for me and one of them, one night...over what? The fact they can't speak English as good as we can?
    They look down on them like they are sub-human things.
    I can understand the fear of change and fear of what you don't know...but JESUS come on.

    As for the comments "ohhhhh it's only snowballs". Who the hell throws snowballs repeatedly at random strangers(whether they Irish or not)???

    There are enough psychos and weirdos out there on nights without having to worry about bloody 14/15yr old farts.

    As other posters have said their issues run deeper and need to be sorted out from a young age.
    Something needs to be put in place for all age groups of kids.


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    #100
    caffrey
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭caffrey


    perhaps a nice way to deal with this is both with punishment for child and parent. the child gets community service and for repeat offences pictures of child and parent are put up in local shops/community centres with the crime commited on display. Most would be dettered by even the prospect of this. There is nothing to get someone parenting like cold, hard SHAME!!


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    #101
    ToniTuddle
    Registered Users Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭ToniTuddle


    caffrey wrote: »
    perhaps a nice way to deal with this is both with punishment for child and parent. the child gets community service and for repeat offences pictures of child and parent are put up in local shops/community centres with the crime commited on display. Most would be dettered by even the prospect of this. There is nothing to get someone parenting like cold, hard SHAME!!

    That would probably end up with the parent battering the child behind closed doors for "shaming" them like that.

    The idea of community service for the teenagers is good.
    Ones that are younger than 12 would probably need something else.

    Sometimes it isn't the parents fault. Some kids are soo easily led it's shocking. Whatever punishment is handed out I'd say there will be a vicious cycle of other crap as a result.


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    #102
    Angry Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭Angry Troll


    nummnutts wrote: »
    Round them up and put them in chain gangs. We would have a very clean country, in fairness. There's enough of the scumbags to go round.
    [...]


    yep, in chain gangs dressed in bright orange overalls...and use them to clear ireland's roads and walkways of ice and snow among other things...seems nobody else can do that or gives a damn anyway...


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    #103
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Promac wrote: »
    Your counter-argument is just as old and does nothing but allow the problem to continue.

    The point is there is no problem, people just manufactured hysteria.

    If any of this kind of "kids out of control" nonsense was true society would have collapsed aeon's ago, seeing as older people have been whining about it since forever.

    aDeener wrote: »
    "encouraging a better home" im sorry but that is hilarious, 1. how does one encourage a better home? 2. You think they are going to listen?

    where has this been shown can you tell me? i can tell you what there was sweet fcuk all people breaking windows of houses and roaring verbal abuse/intimidating strangers on the street when there was "zero tolerance ****" i speak for my own area which has since become a shithole/ breeeding ground for these people you want "social programs" for. dear me

    I'm sorry the world outside your door terrifies you, but zero tolerance closely relates correlation with causality, a reasoning which is prone to fallacy, while the effectiveness of the social programs you mock is based in actual empirical research.


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    #104
    neil_hosey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭neil_hosey


    hooradiation wrote: »
    The point is there is no problem, people just manufactured hysteria.

    If any of this kind of "kids out of control" nonsense was true society would have collapsed aeon's ago, seeing as older people have been whining about it since forever.




    I'm sorry the world outside your door terrifies you, but zero tolerance closely relates correlation with causality, a reasoning which is prone to fallacy, while the effectiveness of the social programs you mock is based in actual empirical research.

    haha.... i wonder where you live that you dont see kids burning out cars and motorbikes on a weekly basis.. :rolleyes:


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    #105
    Angry Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭Angry Troll


    i think we need to discern between short-term and long-term solutions here.

    short term: gangs running wild need to be stopped dead in their tracks. social programs etc. will not stop antisocial behaviour in the here and now. this is where police presence, tough community response and some of the other ideas discussed here come into play. once “feral teenagers” understand they are likely to end up at the receiving end, get beaten up by irate community members, arrested and put into chain gangs etc., the situation will improve. in everyday real life it is much more important to protect victims and prevent crime than to be nice to perps. guns and baseball bats tend to work wonders here. “zero tolerance” does work if done right.

    long term: social programs etc. can only ever be a (small) part of the solution. what needs to change is the attitude and mentality of those people. this again requires a healthy economic climate with jobs and opportunities, intact families and many other things we cannot just change or improve overnight. to be honest, i am not overly optimistic for any serious improvement anytime soon in this country.

    and of course, even the healthiest society will always have a certain percentage of scumbags and scumbags need to be neutralised, by force if necessary.


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    #106
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Young teens who are thugs know the law can't touch them then they are under 16 and by the time they are older they know how to hide thier faces so that they can't be clearly ID by the people they are harrashing and attacking.

    It's gotten worse over the last 5 years and prolly will be on the rise with the recession and lack of jobs.

    I watched Harry Brown last night and the thing is a lot of what is portrayed in that film in terms of the carry on of such thugs on the street happens here every night of the week in certain areas andit's not limited to those areas as they rove in packs.


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    #107
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    neil_hosey wrote: »
    haha.... i wonder where you live that you dont see kids burning out cars and motorbikes on a weekly basis.. :rolleyes:

    I wonder how you're getting an Internet connection from the set of Escape from New York


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    #108
    neil_hosey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭neil_hosey


    hooradiation wrote: »
    I wonder how you're getting an Internet connection from the set of Escape from New York

    I take it you live in a well to do area with low crime rates among teenagers. Currently I live in meath, but I grew up in Finglas (for 20 odd years). It makes me laugh to read the post i originally replied about becuase you are so far off the mark its scary.

    Take your head out of your arse and go stay in an area where these little bástards do be, then come back to me with the smart comments.

    You are clueless on this issue, alot like 99.999% of politicians.. they dont have to deal with anti-social little eejits in their neighbourhood, so they do nothing about it.

    Where do you think the scum bags that are blowing the **** out of eachother every other week come from??? did they just turn into criminals when they hit 18??? its bred into them from a young age, product of their surroundings. You can spot the kids that will be little knackers from the age of 6 or 7, usually ending up locked up or on the scratcher fleecing people like their older brothers and da.


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    #109
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    hooradiation wrote: »
    I wonder how you're getting an Internet connection from the set of Escape from New York

    The st patricks day riots didn't happen on the film set of a movie.
    You'd not fair well in Berryfield at all, or summerhill or parts of clondakin or talla.


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    #110
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,159 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    It's ALL about the parents.

    Easily led by others?
    Bringing stolen gear home and not being asked where you got it?
    Out at 1.00am and no-one bothering to look for you?
    Clearly drinking underage, often supplied by parents?
    Giving abuse to the guards?

    They don't lick it off the stones.


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    #111
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    There are many ways to neglect and abuse a child, children who are not cared for who's parents care more about themselves and thier drink and an easy life and as long as the kids are not under their feet or bothering them when they are loaded or hungover or jonesing the next day is more important then teaching thier kids respect.


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    #112
    ColmDawson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭ColmDawson


    kraggy wrote: »
    If I were in government, I'd have it that 16 year olds and younger have to be accompanied outside by an adult after 9pm.

    This suggestion is massively unreasonable for almost any suburban area I've ever been to.


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    #113
    OnTheBalls
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭OnTheBalls


    To fix this country the following groups need to be shot
    1. The Gangland types
    2. The scummers
    3. All practicing members of the catholic church
    4. All others who practice religion
    5. Fianna Fail
    6. D4 heads
    7. Anybody else who causes trouble
    In that order!


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    #114
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    OnTheBalls wrote: »
    To fix this country the following groups need to be shot
    1. The Gangland types
    2. The scummers
    3. All practicing members of the catholic church
    4. All others who practice religion
    5. Fianna Fail
    6. D4 heads
    7. Anybody else who causes trouble
    In that order!
    Add sleep inducing boring humourless atheists to the list and you have your first deciple.....


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    #115
    Ciaran187
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭Ciaran187


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    There are many ways to neglect and abuse a child,

    THAT'S the attitude. How can we abuse these little sh1ts? I'm in favour of branding. A large scar across their foreheads so they carry it with them everywhere. Big letters saying "THIEF", "THUG" or "RAPIST" right accross their forehead. Or make them wear targets, that's a good one.

    I'm sick of the young scum around. I think a lot of the younger ones are worse than the "settled" criminals.

    What I don't understand is if I let me dog out and he nips someone, he'd be taken off me. But if I had a kid that was out and beat someone within an inch of their life, nothing would be done.


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    #116
    OnTheBalls
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭OnTheBalls


    meditraitor wrote: »
    Add sleep inducing boring humourless atheists to the list and you have your first deciple.....

    I'm not an atheist. I just cannot get my head around manmade organised religion.


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    #117
    neil_hosey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭neil_hosey


    OnTheBalls wrote: »
    I'm not an atheist. I just cannot get my head around manmade organised religion.

    who made ur religion? :P


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    #118
    whadabouchasir
    Registered Users Posts: 942 ✭✭✭whadabouchasir


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    There are many ways to neglect and abuse a child, children who are not cared for who's parents care more about themselves and thier drink and an easy life and as long as the kids are not under their feet or bothering them when they are loaded or hungover or jonesing the next day is more important then teaching thier kids respect.
    Then these Kids go to school and start causing trouble there and they get away with it.Why?Because there isn't an adquate system of punishment in place.this is true when these kids leave school as well.I'm not saying that corporal punishment is right,but at least in the 50's and 60's we didn't have teenagers assaulting people unprovoked and for no reason.


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    #119
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    spurious wrote: »
    It's ALL about the parents.

    Easily led by others?
    Bringing stolen gear home and not being asked where you got it?
    Out at 1.00am and no-one bothering to look for you?
    Clearly drinking underage, often supplied by parents?
    Giving abuse to the guards?

    They don't lick it off the stones.
    It's not just the parents fault, peer pressure has maybe more to do with it. If the community you grow up in calls you a scumbag and calls for you to be shot simply based on the clothes you and your friends wear it's no wonder they follow the ones that "are only having a bit of craic" (in their minds) This whole "their scumbags" attitude creates an atmosphere of hatred where you've two sides on polar opposite minds of view and no hope of reconciling the problem.

    I'm sure your argument will be to throw it back at them but that just proves my point. Your doing nothing to help the problem, just pointing fingers.


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    #120
    OnTheBalls
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭OnTheBalls


    neil_hosey wrote: »
    who made ur religion? :P

    Christ? The four apostles who spread christianity? I just can't see why something that happened two hundred years ago and is on par with fairytales can be seen to have relevance to our lives today. Not to mention the church has been reformed so much it is not what it originally was. Hence man changes it. Don't even get me started on protestantism.


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    #121
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Dublin City of God


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