MUX 2 launch date ?

Souriau · 28-08-2013 3:44pm

MUX2 transmitting from Clermont Carn on E56

eirman · 28-08-2013 4:09pm

Thanks Souriau, First time I ever managed to catch the tests before they disappear.

thomasking22008 · 28-08-2013 4:28pm

Will there have new launch new channel soarview ?

Elmo · 28-08-2013 6:56pm

thomasking22008 wrote: »

Will there have new launch new channel soarview ?

No I think it is unlikely. The real plan if you call it a plan is that RTÉ One, TV3 and TG4 will all go HD. But the regulators and government have pander to fee arguments for the last 5 years and because no one organisation is ready to say right lets do this the audience are left with a stalemate.

If MUX 2 does launch expect

MUX 1
RTÉ ONE HD
RTÉ TWO HD
RTÉ NEWS NOW
RTÉjr/RTÉ 1 +1
RTÉ Aertel
RTÉ Radio

MUX 2
TV3 HD
TG4 HD
3E

The other channels are fantasies. The IFB Channel has dissappeard, a +1 TG4 and Cula4 has been taken off the table, and TV3 have no money (according to them its down to the licence fee, not bad financial management).

The launch of MUX 2 will be just as much of a damp squib as the launch of Saorview.

pa990 · 29-08-2013 4:48pm

i'm beginning to think that by the time Mux 2 and 3 get going all of our equipment will be outdated.

will we end up using an out of date system.. or have to upgrade our HW

Machinehead · 29-08-2013 5:23pm

pa990 wrote: »

i'm beginning to think that by the time Mux 2 and 3 get going all of our equipment will be outdated.

will we end up using an out of date system.. or have to upgrade our HW

RTÉ One HD should be ready by Christmas if the tender for the HD gear is going to plan. TV3 are supposed to have the HD gear in place. TG4 are already HD on UPC. Just for the independent radio stations to get with the programme & that should have Mux2 sorted by Christmas.

The Cush · 29-08-2013 6:03pm

pa990 wrote: »

will we end up using an out of date system.. or have to upgrade our HW

No, they will use the same transmission standard as Mux1. If pay DTT ever launches those muxes may use the newer DVB-T2 standard.

pa990 · 30-08-2013 3:00pm

The Cush wrote: »

........ If pay DTT ever launches those muxes may use the newer DVB-T2 standard.

Thats what i mean.. my CAM slot will be useless on my TV if that happens.

although, i cant see myself paying for Subscription TV

Capt'n Midnight · 30-08-2013 9:04pm

pa990 wrote: »

Thats what i mean.. my CAM slot will be useless on my TV if that happens.

although, i cant see myself paying for Subscription TV

Subscription TV would have to compete with SKY, UPC, and the likes of Netflix and other internet or cable stuff.

SKY have very deep pockets and a subscription service could be killed at birth by them offering massive discounts.

And the big problem is where would a subscription service get enough unique channels to make it attractive enough to subsidise the transmitters and receiver equipment for nationwide coverage ?

You can point at topuptv in the UK but we don't have the economony of scale or a large number of potential customers seeing as how SKY and UPC have saturated the market

The Cush · 30-08-2013 9:13pm

pa990 wrote: »

Thats what i mean.. my CAM slot will be useless on my TV if that happens.

That's an issue the contracted commercial multiplex operator would have to decide on, the issue of existing equipment in people's homes versus the customer buying new equipment for commercial DTT and less capacity using the existing standard versus more capacity using the newer standard.

pa990 · 31-08-2013 1:19am

The Cush wrote: »

That's an issue the contracted commercial multiplex operator would have to decide on, the issue of existing equipment in people's homes versus the customer buying new equipment for commercial DTT and less capacity using the existing standard versus more capacity using the newer standard.

That's true

Elmo · 31-08-2013 8:51pm

No commercial operator will realistic change the set up for customers too much.

Boxer, EasyTV and One Vision if any of them had launched would have had to pay customers to install equipment including aerials this is a big portion of the cost associated with payTV.

ITV failed because Sky could afford to give "free" equipment. Pay DTT now won't have has much cost associated with it as most people on Soarview are ready for the PayTV operator to give them a cheap STB that they can plug into their existing equipment.

And the big problem is where would a subscription service get enough unique channels to make it attractive enough to subsidise the transmitters and receiver equipment for nationwide coverage ?

Sky and UPC can both provide more channels than any DTT Pay operator. They will also supply most if not all FTA channels. The DTT Pay operator will have to look towards exclusive content and high end premium channels, IMO providing FTA channels would not work for such an operator, they would also have to provide some type of on-demand service. The list of channel suggested by Boxer, Easy and OneVision were simple re-transmissions of most FTA channels, all 3 would died after a year.

They would be better off providing a Pay Satellite TV service. IMO.

The Cush · 31-08-2013 9:18pm

Elmo wrote: »

Boxer, EasyTV and One Vision if any of them had launched would have had to pay customers to install equipment including aerials this is a big portion of the cost associated with payTV.

No they wouldn't, STBs and CAMs would be purchased (or rented???) by subscribers and the aerial was the subscribers responsibility.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-09-2013 2:24pm

The Cush wrote: »

No they wouldn't, STBs and CAMs would be purchased (or rented???) by subscribers and the aerial was the subscribers responsibility.

what would that cost ?

what % of homes only have saorview ?

and what % of them would be willing to pay for a subscription service now when they haven't paid for it before ?

Anyone who wanted extra channels has already got them.

I can't see a startup winning in a bidding war for stuff people will actually pay for like movies or sports in a landscape where streaming is a reality.

Ka sat means there's 475Mb/s of spot beam on this Island, another potential competitor that could take the rug out from under a DTT subscription scheme here.

The Cush · 01-09-2013 2:55pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

what would that cost ?

what % of homes only have saorview ?

and what % of them would be willing to pay for a subscription service now when they haven't paid for it before ?

My previous comments were in relation to the last commercial DTT process involving Boxer, Easy TV and OneVision and their stated plans at that time.

No idea what any future operator might do or the costs involved.

The report into the future of commercial DTT is due to be presented to the BAI board in early Sept.

Ka sat means there's 475Mb/s of spot beam on this Island, another potential competitor that could take the rug out from under a DTT subscription scheme here

Whatever chance there is of commercial DTT I can't see any operator going down the route of launching a service on KaSat with so little dishes pointing in that direction.

Elmo · 01-09-2013 4:13pm

Any DTT Pay service would not be of any interest to any current Pay TV subscriber and the few non-subscribers thinking of taking up subscription even back in '08

1. DTT provider gets viewer to pay for STB
2. DTT provider insists that the aerial is the subscribers own business

In effect this would mean that the Pay DTT provider would provide less channels at a higher initial cost, unlike UPC and Sky who can afford to provide STB and other equipment for Free.

Now that DSO has taken place the issue surrounding Aerials have been resolved for the payTV operator however the cost of STBs still remains for the new provider/potential customer.

PayTV on DTT can only work if it cuts out FTA and crap pay TV, aiming it at the part of the market that doesn't current take up Subscriptions (I would happily pay for Sky Atlantic over BBC 4, as I can get BBC 4 for free, I would happily pay for Sky Movies Premierre over MGM movies).

However I think that Pay DTT won't happen and as pointed out investment into a new Satellite Pay TV provider for Irish audiences might work out better, or investing in a new online on demand service.

There might be a possibility for it if MMDS goes.

The Cush · 01-09-2013 5:29pm

Elmo wrote: »

PayTV on DTT can only work if it cuts out FTA and crap pay TV, aiming it at the part of the market that doesn't current take up Subscriptions (I would happily pay for Sky Atlantic over BBC 4, as I can get BBC 4 for free, I would happily pay for Sky Movies Premierre over MGM movies).

However I think that Pay DTT won't happen and as pointed out investment into a new Satellite Pay TV provider for Irish audiences might work out better, or investing in a new online on demand service.

There might be a possibility for it if MMDS goes.

One of the issues raised here regularly by people moving from Sky/UPC to Saorview/Freesat is the lack of a combined epg for the Irish and UK channels. Any planned commercial DTT service will have to include them for viewer convenience alone.

Boxer in their submission were going to offer a basic/lite package of 7 channels (incl the 4 UK terrestrial) plus the FTA (now Saorview) channels for €10 at that time on a pay TV lite/pay-as-you-go basis.

from the Boxer submission at the time

In summary, it is clear that there is a significant market for a Pay TV Lite or Pay As You Go digital
television service in Ireland. The demand comes from Analogue Traditionalists who want simple,
low-cost access to their favourite channels; the Second Setters who want a low-cost digital solution
(research suggests that looking at all secondary sets, including third and fourth sets, Boxer’s DTT
service could become a significant provider); and Churners who would like to be released from the high
prices and commitment required by their current service.

Another satellite TV provider in the Irish market is a non starter IMO.

As regards the ending of MMDS and the loss of up to 40,000 UPC revenue generating units as they call them (aka subscribers) I wonder if they've engaged with the consultant compiling the report for the BAI on the future of commercial DTT?

irishfeen · 01-09-2013 7:12pm

Elmo wrote: »

No I think it is unlikely. The real plan if you call it a plan is that RTÉ One, TV3 and TG4 will all go HD. But the regulators and government have pander to fee arguments for the last 5 years and because no one organisation is ready to say right lets do this the audience are left with a stalemate.

If MUX 2 does launch expect

MUX 1
RTÉ ONE HD
RTÉ TWO HD
RTÉ NEWS NOW
RTÉjr/RTÉ 1 +1
RTÉ Aertel
RTÉ Radio

MUX 2
TV3 HD
TG4 HD
3E

The other channels are fantasies. The IFB Channel has dissappeard, a +1 TG4 and Cula4 has been taken off the table, and TV3 have no money (according to them its down to the licence fee, not bad financial management).

The launch of MUX 2 will be just as much of a damp squib as the launch of Saorview.

In RTÉ's Autumn season launch it was announced that RTÉ One HD would launch in the "new year" ... so we won't probably see Mux 2 broadcasting at all this year.

Elmo · 01-09-2013 7:56pm

Boxer's set of channels according to Wiki

RTÉ One
RTÉ One +1
RTÉ Two HD
RTÉ News Now
TV3
TG4
Irish Film Channel
Houses of the Oireachtas Channel

(I have removed most of the channels from wiki on a FTA basis as they come from Easy TV proposal)

The "Boxer Starter Pack" includes 7 channels for € 9.99 per month (provisional): (I assume these are on a Free To View basis rather than a Free-To-Air basis)
BBC One (FTA)
BBC Two (FTA)
UTV (FTA)
Channel 4 (FTA)
Discovery
Eurosport
BBC News 24 (FTA)

The "Boxer Pack" includes the Starter Pack and 11 channels for € 22.99 per month (provisional):
Sky One
Living
Sky News
Film 4 (FTA)
MTV (time-share)
Nickelodeon (time-share)
Disney Channel
E4 (FTA)
Setanta Ireland
BBC Ireland (new channel composed of BBC 3, 4, CBBC and CBeebies it would also require more participation than normal from BBC) (FTA)
ITV Ireland (new channel composed of ITV 2, 3 and 4 it would also require more participation than normal from ITV) (FTA)

Two "Premium Packs" for € 24.99 each per month:
Three sports channels from either Sky Sports, Setanta Sports or rightsholders.
Three movie channels from Sky Movies, UPC or rightsholders.

All seems expensive IMO.

The Cush · 01-09-2013 9:04pm

Elmo wrote: »

Boxer's set of channels according to Wiki

The "Boxer Starter Pack" includes 7 channels for € 9.99 per month (provisional): (I assume these are on a Free To View basis rather than a Free-To-Air basis)
BBC One
BBC Two
UTV
Channel 4
Discovery
Eurosport
BBC News 24

The basic pack was to be encrypted at €10 p.m. on a pay-as-you-go basis.

The Cush · 01-09-2013 9:15pm

irishfeen wrote: »

In RTÉ's Autumn season launch it was announced that RTÉ One HD would launch in the "new year" ... so we won't probably see Mux 2 broadcasting at all this year.

Is there any official link to this?

This could tie in with Comreg's next consultation and decision on the wholesale transmission and multiplexing market (Consultation on the appropriate Weighted Average Cost of Capital for RTE/RTENL) expected in Q4 with a decision due in Q2 next year.

irishfeen · 01-09-2013 9:21pm

The Cush wrote: »

Is there any official link to this?

This could tie in with Comreg's next consultation and decision on the wholesale transmission and multiplexing market (Consultation on the appropriate Weighted Average Cost of Capital for RTE/RTENL) expected in Q4 with a decision due in Q2 next year.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/newseason2013/ ... click on the brochure and its under Glen Killane's welcome write-up (second last paragraph)

The Cush · 01-09-2013 9:45pm

irishfeen wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/tv/newseason2013/ ... click on the brochure and its under Glen Killane's welcome write-up (second last paragraph)

Thanks for the link irishfeen.

The relevant quote from the document

Glen Killane, Managing Director RTÉ Television

...

A refocused RTÉ One and RTÉ Two, will sit alongside RTÉ
One+1, which offers greater flexibility for the audience, RTÉ
Two HD which offers an enhanced viewing experience, as well
as, RTÉ One HD which we will launch in the New Year.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/newseason2013/pdf/AW_RTE_NewSeason_Launch_Brochure_2014.pdf

Hotblack Desiato · 01-09-2013 11:32pm

Given the level of disconnect between RTE and RTENL during the lead up to analogue switch-off, RTE's hostility towards Saorview, and that Oireachtas TV has launched on UPC but still isn't available on Saorview, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if RTE 1HD was to lauch on UPC and/or Sky with no plan and no date set for its launch on Saorview.

The Cush · 02-09-2013 12:19am

ninja900 wrote: »

Given the level of disconnect between RTE and RTENL during the lead up to analogue switch-off, RTE's hostility towards Saorview, and that Oireachtas TV has launched on UPC but still isn't available on Saorview, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if RTE 1HD was to lauch on UPC and/or Sky with no plan and no date set for its launch on Saorview.

What do you mean by the level of disconnect between RTÉ and RTÉNL?

During the whole process they were one in the same company. Most if not all of the tenders for the network upgrade were done by RTÉ. RTÉ has guaranteed the €38 million loan facility. The commercial DTT applicants and the BAI blamed them for the failure of the that project. Only in the last 6 months has there been any degree of separation between them.

As regards the Oireachtas channel UPC carries it for free, an option not available to Saorview under the legislation enacted by the Oireachtas.

As Saorview is owned by RTÉ I can't see RTÉ One HD launching elsewhere before Saorview.

Elmo · 02-09-2013 10:02am

The Cush wrote: »

The basic pack was to be encrypted at €10 p.m. on a pay-as-you-go basis.

10 euro for 6 channels 4 of which are available either on your current subscription or free via satellite. Even as a top up it wouldn't be worth it.

I can imagine RTÉ One HD launching next summer AKA 31/08/14. :rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight · 02-09-2013 11:02am

Elmo wrote: »

10 euro for 6 channels 4 of which are available either on your current subscription or free via satellite. Even as a top up it wouldn't be worth it.

I can imagine RTÉ One HD launching next summer AKA 31/08/14. :rolleyes:

The "Boxer Pack" includes the Starter Pack and 11 channels for € 22.99 per month (provisional):

wow

that offers nothing you can't get with FTA + the basic TV you get with UPC internet

OK Eurosport is FTA in German but still

And the HUGE problem that they are relying on SKY for their movies. Very small margin. Even a big company like UPC didn't go medieval on the dodgy boxes for years because they weren't loosing that much margin.

SKY and UPC more or less have a duopoly with local monopolies. UPC can't poach rural SKY customers, SKY can't poach UPC customers who want internet / can't get or want satellite dish. So it makes sense for SKY to sell stuff to UPC.

A DTT startup would be trying to steal customers from both so why would SKY want to sell stuff to them at a price where they could make a profit ??

Elmo · 02-09-2013 12:01pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

A DTT startup would be trying to steal customers from both so why would SKY want to sell stuff to them at a price where they could make a profit ??

I don't know about this. Your right to say that Sky are very protective but If sky can in some way get the 12% that don't subscribe they will be very happy to do so. Sky lose very little as they are still the main pay TV broadcaster in this country, from basic pay tv channels all the way up to premium sports channels, they have agreements in place for UK versions of multinational TV services. Sky are probably too big to have to worry about DTT taking their subscribers.

eirman · 02-09-2013 3:51pm

I think that there is a near zero chance of anything encrypted ever appearing on Soarview. Once mux2 starts, it's wide open to any advertising supported channels to join. As the majority (90% ?) of saorview viewers watch tv live, they have a good chance of surviving.

...... and the sooner the better for the Oireachtas channels to transmit terrestrially.
It chews up bandwidth at the moment.

The Cush · 02-09-2013 4:33pm

eirman wrote: »

I think that there is a near zero chance of anything encrypted ever appearing on Soarview. Once mux2 starts, it's wide open to any advertising supported channels to join. As the majority (90% ?) of saorview viewers watch tv live, they have a good chance of surviving.

Saorview is the brand name for the PSB/FTA channels on the PSB Muxes 1 and 2 and maybe 3 if required, it was never meant to carry encrypted channels and there is no Conditional Access requirement within the Saorview spec.

MUX 2 launch date ?

Comments