Bioshock Infinite - 'The Ending' Discussion Thread (Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers!) - Page 10 - boards.ie
Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
13-04-2013, 12:58   #136
joe123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,560
Still not gone on the ending the more I think about it. I know he went down two different paths but would the Comstock booker really be a completely different person after his Baptism?

Sure he might have different beliefs, but I mean he is drastically different. Hes racist for one, which is completely against what Booker was.

And one annoying thing, Comstock has a completely different voice to that of Bookers.....and the Comstock holding the baby before Elizabeth lost her finger looked nothing like Booker.
joe123 is offline  
Advertisement
13-04-2013, 13:44   #137
Otacon
Registered Abuser
 
Otacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: London
Posts: 6,121
Send a message via Skype™ to Otacon
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe123 View Post
Still not gone on the ending the more I think about it. I know he went down two different paths but would the Comstock booker really be a completely different person after his Baptism?

Sure he might have different beliefs, but I mean he is drastically different. Hes racist for one, which is completely against what Booker was.

And one annoying thing, Comstock has a completely different voice to that of Bookers.....and the Comstock holding the baby before Elizabeth lost her finger looked nothing like Booker.
All of the above is explained in the audio logs dotted around Columbia. Firstly, the baptism did change Booker/Comstock quite drastically. Firstly, the DeWitt that went through the baptism used it as a way to wash away his sins, not only allowing his mind to get over the shame but actually celebrate his actions and use them to turn him into a hero.

As for the different look and sound, it is explained that using the tears quite frequently has caused Comstock to age rapidly so what you are seeing is a fairly damaged version of DeWitt. Finally, the tears also eventually made him sterile, so when he wanted an heir, he set into motion the events of the game.
Otacon is offline  
13-04-2013, 14:55   #138
joe123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otacon View Post
All of the above is explained in the audio logs dotted around Columbia. Firstly, the baptism did change Booker/Comstock quite drastically. Firstly, the DeWitt that went through the baptism used it as a way to wash away his sins, not only allowing his mind to get over the shame but actually celebrate his actions and use them to turn him into a hero.

As for the different look and sound, it is explained that using the tears quite frequently has caused Comstock to age rapidly so what you are seeing is a fairly damaged version of DeWitt. Finally, the tears also eventually made him sterile, so when he wanted an heir, he set into motion the events of the game.
I picked up all but 9 audio logs I think but it still doesn't explain why Booker looks nothing like the Comstock we see just before the baby loses its finger. NOTHING alike. And this Comstock was still young with brown hair.

Still not gone on the explanation for the different voice too. Its drastically different.

And if I missed an audio log on how De witt totally changed his views on EVERYTHING after the baptism then fair enough. But I mean, hes not even close to having any of the same characteristics but if it was explained in a log I missed fair enough.
joe123 is offline  
13-04-2013, 17:00   #139
bleg
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,622
I was actually watching my housemate playing it there last night. At some points near the start of the game where Comstock is talking to Brooker, Brooker talks along with him. Quiet, subtle, but it's there.
bleg is offline  
13-04-2013, 20:45   #140
tok9
Registered User
 
tok9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe123 View Post
Still not gone on the explanation for the different voice too. Its drastically different.

But I mean, hes not even close to having any of the same characteristics but if it was explained in a log I missed fair enough.
The voice can be explained off through the tears and getting older.

Is there a side by side comparison of Comstock and Booker? I wouldnt say they look completely different. Obviously, the major difference I can see is the beard.
tok9 is offline  
Advertisement
13-04-2013, 23:38   #141
J. Marston
Registered User
 
J. Marston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: County Cork.
Posts: 7,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by tok9 View Post
Is there a side by side comparison of Comstock and Booker? I wouldnt say they look completely different. Obviously, the major difference I can see is the beard.
Booker (I found this on the Bioshock forums, not sure if it's actually official)



Young Comstock



Old Comstock (Best pic I could find that wasn't a poster in-game)



Booker and young Comstock are identical but for the beard, bit harder to see the old Comstock picture but the similarities are there.
J. Marston is offline  
(2) thanks from:
14-04-2013, 15:31   #142
Otacon
Registered Abuser
 
Otacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: London
Posts: 6,121
Send a message via Skype™ to Otacon
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe123 View Post
Sure he might have different beliefs, but I mean he is drastically different. Hes racist for one, which is completely against what Booker was.
Found this on the Giantbomb site:

Quote:
Why does Booker become Comstock? How does baptism turn him into a religious zealot and racist?

The answer to this is twofold. The religious zealotry comes from the visions that he believes are gifts from god in the form of prophecy, but are actually glimpses into alternate dimensions via tears. Everything he does, from raising Columbia, to kidnapping Elizabeth, to his endgame of a New York on fire, is a result of his attempt to fulfill these visions.

The racism ties in to one of the underlying themes of BioShock Infinite, forgiveness of oneself. The baptism is an attempt by Booker to come to terms with the atrocities committed at Wounded Knee. However, regardless of whether or not he accepts baptism, he is unable to forgive himself. In the "rejects baptism" reality this sense of guilt manifests itself in his horrible alcoholism and gambling debt. In the "accepts baptism" reality, Comstock forces himself to see non-whites as subhuman to make their wholesale slaughter more palatable in his mind.

"Comstock feels self-loathing for himself due to his implied Native American lineage - there are two recordings which heavily imply this. The first one has Comstock complaining that he was suspected of being mixed-race, which completely outrages him. The second is a recording of Preston E. Downes talking how he met the martyr!Booker. The recording states that Booker knows Sioux, which is how he helps him communicate with an Indian boy." -Ghostiet
Otacon is offline  
Thanks from:
15-04-2013, 23:53   #143
Grumpypants
Registered User
 
Grumpypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,103
Just finished it there, overall hugely disappointing the whole game was ruined knowing that there was some twist to come at the end and I felt everything I was doing was pointless and just to kill time before setting up some weird ending. It all got a bit Twin Peaks there near the end.

So many missions involve going from point A to point B then Back to A to get to C then back to B then through a tear into an alternative A,B and C shooting set number of enemies each time. I got fairly sick of back tracking. That whole lady Comstock thing was a pain.

Presentation was stunning I really liked the artwork and the feel of the city but boy did it lack any kind of exploration or anything to get invested in. So much work went into this it deserved better. The tears and bringing in things from other times/dimensions was a really good touch. But pretty forgettable game to be honest when you put it up against Bioshock 1 which I still think is a work of art.
Grumpypants is offline  
(2) thanks from:
26-04-2013, 16:02   #144
EmmyOk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Salinas, where the women go forever
Posts: 4
I quite enjoyed the ending. I had to read some summaries just to make sure I fully understood all of it, or at least most of it. I'm not sure if I still need spoiler tags, but I'll assume I do. I thought Spoiler: only one booker was drowned at the baptism, which closed off all the other potential Comstock/DeWitt realities because it was the branching point.

Someone mentioned earlier hearing a sound similar to Songbird in the original bioshock, and that it might be Spoiler: Songbird's death foreshadowed all the way back then. As cool as that would be, Levine mentioned that originally the Songbird was going to sound like a Big Daddy rather than high-pitched. So they couldn't have decided to put that Easter Egg in back when they were making Bioshock.

For me the most interesting part of the ending was Spoiler: "there is always a man and a lighthouse" etc.. Making the games all parallel stories exploring different themes. Most articles I read though drew the obvious similarities (Ryan -> Comstock, Jack -> Booker, Little Sisters -> Elizabeth) but connected Fontaine/Atlas with Daisy Fitzroy. Which seems wrong to me. In the same way Elizabeth is multiple people in Bioshock, I think Fontaine is multiple people in Infinite. Atlas is Fitzroy, but I think Fontaine's parallel would definitely be Fink.

Both are charismatic con-men who set up manufacturing businesses that are essential to the primary antagonist. Fontaine Futuristics and Fisheries as well as his homes for the poor are very similar to Fink MFG and how his workers live in the factory. I am not sure if he invented them in Rapture but Fontaine was definitely a manufacturer of Plasmids and of course Fink brought Vigors to Columbia. I also felt that Fink's massive golden statue was a stick in the for Comstock, it was like a Golden Calf. I think if Booker hadn't shown up, Fink and Comstock were destined to clash. Which would parallel Ryan trying to destroy Fontaine.

The relationship between Fink and Daisy kind of buggers the theory a bit though.
EmmyOk is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
26-04-2013, 16:29   #145
SeantheMan
Registered User
 
SeantheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Korea
Posts: 4,841
Send a message via Skype™ to SeantheMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpypants View Post

Presentation was stunning I really liked the artwork and the feel of the city but boy did it lack any kind of exploration or anything to get invested in. So much work went into this it deserved better. The tears and bringing in things from other times/dimensions was a really good touch. But pretty forgettable game to be honest when you put it up against Bioshock 1 which I still think is a work of art.
I'm of the same opinion, enjoyable game, I had a great time playing it. But I wouldn't be going around praising it all day and giving it 10/10 .
When anyone asks if I played it I say yes...and then ask them if they've played Bioshock 1....to which most say no. I then just try convince them to play Bioshock 1 as it is a much better game.

There were never any "tense" moments, like the way you had to plan about attacking a "big daddy"

My favourite part of Bioshock Infinite was when I was back in rapture.

Biggest disappointment about the game, the plasmids ....no need for them whatsoever. I didn't need to use about 70% of them. Electricity here and there, and upgrade the "crow trap" to full....so they constantly make crow traps, and then just upgrade certain weapons and it's as easy.
SeantheMan is offline  
26-04-2013, 16:37   #146
boneyarsebogman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Final Front Ear
Posts: 18,890
Send a message via MSN to boneyarsebogman
My brain is on fire. Whut just happened? Well, I get bits and pieces, but I think I need to replay soon, with the ending fresh in my mind. Its so good. It was great to have a fully wrapped up game, with seemingly no chance of a sequel. Well, hopefully.

What did they mean at the beginning by, "he doesn't row"?

Last edited by boneyarsebogman; 26-04-2013 at 16:44.
boneyarsebogman is offline  
26-04-2013, 17:05   #147
EmmyOk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Salinas, where the women go forever
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyarsebogman View Post

What did they mean at the beginning by, "he doesn't row"?

The Lutece's are checking to see what changes each time they bring a Booker to try and get Elizabeth. For example at the coin toss Booker's choice might change but it always lands on heads no matter what. That is why Robert has the chalkboard with all the strikes for heads. The amount of strikes is also the reasoning behind which number Booker the one we play is. When they say he doesn't row, they mean no Booker they have brought through to rescue Elizabeth has ever rowed, hence "He doesn't row". Constants and variables as Elizabeth later says.
EmmyOk is offline  
26-04-2013, 22:58   #148
boneyarsebogman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Final Front Ear
Posts: 18,890
Send a message via MSN to boneyarsebogman
Can anyone explain the whole asylum thing? I was a bit lost with that. What exactly was that guy?

Also just noticed.. the attack on New York happened in or around 1983/1984. If you look in the background of this clip, you can see a news ticker which says "Columbia Sky City threatens New York something/01/83 Evacuation".


Last edited by boneyarsebogman; 26-04-2013 at 23:05.
boneyarsebogman is offline  
26-04-2013, 23:51   #149
humanji
Category Moderator
 
humanji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: with ceiling cat
Posts: 17,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmyOk View Post
I'm not sure if I still need spoiler tags, but I'll assume I do.
You're fine. The thread is about the end, so there's little chance of not having spoilers here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmyOk View Post
For me the most interesting part of the ending was Spoiler: "there is always a man and a lighthouse" etc.. Making the games all parallel stories exploring different themes. Most articles I read though drew the obvious similarities (Ryan -> Comstock, Jack -> Booker, Little Sisters -> Elizabeth) but connected Fontaine/Atlas with Daisy Fitzroy. Which seems wrong to me. In the same way Elizabeth is multiple people in Bioshock, I think Fontaine is multiple people in Infinite. Atlas is Fitzroy, but I think Fontaine's parallel would definitely be Fink.
You have to remember that they hadn't planned out this game when the first one was made, so there's bound to be plot holes when tying the two stories together.

The "there is always a man and a lighthouse" line basically said to me that the ending was pointless, as there's no possible way to stop it from happening, since there's an infinite amount of possibilities.
humanji is offline  
26-04-2013, 23:59   #150
boneyarsebogman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Final Front Ear
Posts: 18,890
Send a message via MSN to boneyarsebogman
Just found this.. very interesting.

Apparently throughout the game you could hear some ambient noises. Someone then took this noise and sped it up.. seemingly its an actual melody and song that are playing.



(you can switch between the different speeds to hear it)
boneyarsebogman is offline  
Thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet