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The hypocrisy of After Hours

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  • 06-11-2012 3:18pm
    #1
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭


    Why is it that geography matters when people die or get hurt in AH.

    Today's thread about the girl who lost her hands on the DART. Cue outrage from the masses about how disgraceful it is to joke about such a thing. Here Mod action, cards doled out, no one allowed whatsoever to make further jokes after the mod warning.

    Polish man gets crushed by garbage bin, in Dublin. Some funny jokes are made and yet the masses again rise up against this, posts deleted, mod action, two lads banned from the thread. Here

    Pig famrer gets eaten by his own pigs. In the USA. Hilarious scenes in After Hours. No mod action, jokes aplenty and everyone is a comedian. Its fine sure, stupid Americans. :rolleyes: Here

    Chinese lad crushed by Steamroller. Again hilarity ensues. Mod takes action after the thread being open for two days to say no further jokes, no bannings or infractions here. Here

    Why is it that when a celebrity or Irish person dies that it has to RIP posts only with no discussion of the incident? Yet when someone foreign dies its hilarious and the same people why cry when jokes are made about us paddies dying make jokes about spring rolls and pig farmers. Absolute hypocrisy.

    There needs to be a ruling made on this sooner rather than later. Apply the being a dick rule to death threads regardless of geography or don't apply them at all. To be honest I'd propose banning of death threads, regardless of nationality or supposed fame. What do RIP posts achieve, absolutely nothing. A person dying doesn't make them immune from comment good or bad.

    A similar thread on this topic was closed recently in feedback, I'm stumped as to why but there needs to be a clarification from the powers that be.
    Post edited by Shield on


«134

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    #2
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    I would instead propose a new forum entitled "Death announcements & Tragedies".

    If no side other than the "single rolling tear" brigade are allowed to post in these threads, then its not a discussion and has no place in after hours.

    But i agree, mod them all equally or do away with them.


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    #3
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    There's a 'Book of Condolences' forum but no-one ever uses it.

    Everyone instead wants to post in AH so they can get maximum exposure for their nonsensical RIP post, tasteless joke, or show everyone how outraged they are by a tasteless joke on the internet.


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    #4
    Xavi6
    Registered Users Posts: 40,861 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    The first page of AH threads are generally good idiot filters.

    The whole place is full of hypocrisies day in day out, just the way it is.


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    #5
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Because people are tribal in nature, it's sad when it is someone we consider one of use and not so much when it happens to 'others'.


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    #6
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    There's a formula for this, it's much like gravity.

    The scale of a tragedy is proportional to the amount of devastation and inverse to the distance between the observer and the incident. So you can joke about ten people who die in a bombing in Jakarta, but if your next door neighbour is injured in a car crash, it's not funny.

    It's human nature, no use whining about it.


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    #7
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    I think it's because if it happens in Ireland, there's a very good chance that a friend or family member is reading and could take action against boards.
    If it's a famous person, it's likely to be picked up upon by a journo or someone or other, and again action taken against boards.
    But random mr Chinese or American man - chances are no one related is reading, anyone who cares enough to sue anyway.


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    #8
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,321 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Ares wrote: »
    A similar thread on this topic was closed recently in feedback, I'm stumped as to why but there needs to be a clarification from the powers that be.

    Maybe it was closed because one of the powers that be gave clarification about it:
    g'em wrote:
    There is one: don't be a dick.

    It amazes me how vehemently folk will argue for their right to be offensive on the internet.

    This is not Feedback, there is no case to be made.

    As well as one of the AH mods giving clarification:
    Micky Dolenz wrote:
    Irish related stories will always be treated differently. Firstly, these incidents are in our legal jurisdiction and secondly people related to the stories have every chance of reading the threads about it.

    It's not hypocrisy. It's all about a) the chances of people involved or knowing people involved reading the jokes, and b) any legal implications which might arise, which again are more likely to happen with incidents based in Ireland than elsewhere.


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    #9
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Ares


    Penn wrote: »

    It's not hypocrisy. It's all about a) the chances of people involved or knowing people involved reading the jokes, and b) any legal implications which might arise, which again are more likely to happen with incidents based in Ireland than elsewhere.

    But it kind of is hypocrisy with one set of rules governing Irish/British people and another set of rules for people from abroad.

    Cool, so this works on probability. Does that mean that jokes about people from Dublin are to be treated with more sensitivity than people from Mayo as more people from Dublin use boards than people from Mayo if Boards is going to anyalyse it from a probality viewpoint? After all that is what chance is..

    What kind of legal implications are we looking at from a joke in the hands thread? Or a joke from the Polish garbage truck death? They're puns as opposed to jokes. They don't insult the person who died, but take a humourful view of the circumstances behind the death. Is someone going to sue boards.ie because they posted the video of Father Ted with the fake hands. They'd be laughed out of court.


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    #10
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Are you arguing for the right to allow more tasteless dickish jokes or less? Because I'm confused.


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    #11
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,321 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Ares wrote: »
    But it kind of is hypocrisy with one set of rules governing Irish/British people and another set of rules for people from abroad.

    Cool, so this works on probability. Does that mean that jokes about people from Dublin are to be treated with more sensitivity than people from Mayo as more people from Dublin use boards than people from Mayo if Boards is going to anyalyse it from a probality viewpoint? After all that is what chance is..

    That's hardly a fair comparison when compared to an incident in Ireland versus an incident in America. The difference is chance between Mayo/Dublin is nothing compared to the chance of America/Ireland. Again, it's to prevent jokes being made when it's quite likely that the person involved (or someone related to the person involved) could be reading it. People in Dublin might even be related to a person in Mayo who the incident happened to.

    Think about it this way: A person in your town dies. You're in the local pub a week later. Would you make jokes about the person? There could be someone in the pub who was related to them and could overhear. Would you really be that desperate to make a joke about the person who died?

    The next day, you've flown out to Spain with some friends, none of whom know the person that died. You could make the joke there, and nobody there could possibly get offended.

    It's not just the comment/joke that matters. It's the situation and context.
    Ares wrote: »
    What kind of legal implications are we looking at from a joke in the hands thread? Or a joke from the Polish garbage truck death? They're puns as opposed to jokes. They don't insult the person who died, but take a humourful view of the circumstances behind the death. Is someone going to sue boards.ie because they posted the video of Father Ted with the fake hands. They'd be laughed out of court.

    I'm speaking more in general terms than specific instances.


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    #12
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Ares


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    Are you arguing for the right to allow more tasteless dickish jokes or less? Because I'm confused.

    Either. It should be that they're allowed or they're banned. Geography shouldn't come into it.

    A tragic death is a tragic death regardless of whether it happens in Cork or Chad.

    The way that Irish related threads are exempt from humour leads me to believe that an Irish death is in some way graver, or means more than a death from any other country.


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    #13
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,321 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Ares wrote: »
    The way that Irish related threads are exempt from humour leads me to believe that an Irish death is in some way graver, or means more than a death from any other country.

    But again, that's not what anybody is saying. It's to limit the chances of a person connected to the event reading jokes about it. Very likely when the incidents or deaths are based in Ireland. Not very likely when they happen elsewhere in the world.


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    #14
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Ares wrote: »
    Either. It should be that they're allowed or they're banned. Geography shouldn't come into it.
    Absolutely. If we lived in a world of moral absolutes.

    But we don't. Society is morally relativistic and always will be because we're human, not robots.

    Boards is a reflection of society in general and so attempting to impose moral absolutism on boards would be incompatible with society and destroy the site because people would leave.

    Irish deaths are considered of higher priority in Irish society and therefore will too on boards, boards being Irish. Boards is able to apply a little more tact and control than the man on the street, but imposing rules that are incompatible with everyday conversation is not only infeasible, but unreasonable.

    If everyday human hypocrisy irritates you, then after hours is probably not for you.


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    #15
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Ares wrote: »
    Either. It should be that they're allowed or they're banned.

    But that's how it is now.

    They are allowed.
    Or they are banned.

    To be perfectly honest the prevailing opinion of after hours at the time tends to have the most say in these decisions.

    A blanket rule in this case is not a step forward.


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    #16
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Ares


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    But that's how it is now.

    They are allowed.
    Or they are banned.

    To be perfectly honest the prevailing opinion of after hours at the time tends to have the most say in these decisions.

    A blanket rule in this case is not a step forward.

    All should be considered fair game or else all should be banned. Because someone has a Harp on their passport doesn't automatically make them exempt from humour.

    If an American drives down the wrong way of a motorway and crashed they'd be laughed out of AH. If it happens on the M50 then suddenly there is a flurry of RIP posts and humour/criticism is not tolerated.

    Its absolute hypocrisy.


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    #17
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Penn wrote: »
    But again, that's not what anybody is saying. It's to limit the chances of a person connected to the event reading jokes about it. Very likely when the incidents or deaths are based in Ireland. Not very likely when they happen elsewhere in the world.

    Should that be the basis for it though? Tasteless comments don't become any less tasteless just because family members aren't going to see them.

    Why anyone would feel the need to make a nasty joke/comment about the death or serious injury of another person is beyond me. It's not gallows humor either.. it's blatantly dickish carry on.

    Fcuk sake, people get banned for using certain phrases in AH yet making a joke about someone's death is no big deal unless they're Irish? It's bizarre tbh.


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    #18
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,321 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Should that be the basis for it though? Tasteless comments don't become any less tasteless just because family members aren't going to see them.

    Why anyone would feel the need to make a nasty joke/comment about the death or serious injury of another person is beyond me. It's not gallows humor either.. it's blatantly dickish carry on.

    Fcuk sake, people get banned for using certain phrases in AH yet making a joke about someone's death is no big deal unless they're Irish? It's bizarre tbh.

    As dr.bollocko said, there is no blanket rule to cover it all. Just because an incident happened in a foreign country doesn't mean posters are given free reign. If anyone feels a post or comment crosses a line, they report the post and the mods make a decision about it.

    Again, the main rule about the issue is "Don't be a dick"


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    #19
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Should that be the basis for it though? Tasteless comments don't become any less tasteless just because family members aren't going to see them.

    Why anyone would feel the need to make a nasty joke/comment about the death or serious injury of another person is beyond me. It's not gallows humor either.. it's blatantly dickish carry on.

    Fcuk sake, people get banned for using certain phrases in AH yet making a joke about someone's death is no big deal unless they're Irish? It's bizarre tbh.

    I am confused. The OP's post refers to a Polish gentleman and a Chinese gentleman in which mod action was taken.

    So I am not really getting the point, the hypocrisy....


    Except for the situation of the dude that got eaten by his own pigs. That 2 page thread which would function as a bizarre 1 paragraph article from the sun. In which most of the jokes were references to the movie snatch.


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    #20
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Nothing wrong with geographic sensitivity, most of us would like to think we could log on and not read heartless unthinking smart comments about our lives, boards.ie is so big within Ireland esp under 30s that this site and its users should be have a bit of common sense cop on.

    boardsiesmallvillage.jpg


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    #21
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    I am confused. The OP's post refers to a Polish gentleman and a Chinese gentleman in which mod action was taken.

    So I am not really getting the point, the hypocrisy....


    Except for the situation of the dude that got eaten by his own pigs. That 2 page thread which would function as a bizarre 1 paragraph article from the sun. In which most of the jokes were references to the movie snatch.

    I wasn't really talking about any thread in particular. Just seems odd to me that if someone were to post 'yore ma' in (for example) the DART thread; they'd be automatically banned or carded for it, yet cheap comments such as 'she must have been all over the place' or 'I'm stumped' are met with a gentle mod warning to knock it off.

    The hypocrisy isn't being shown by mods, it's been shown by users who feign concern for people in certain threads and make nasty jokes/comments about other people in separate threads.


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    #22
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    It's really not that hard to understand.
    Tragedies that happen closer to you affect you more.
    Thousands of people die daily. If you heard your friend died, you'd be sad.
    If you heard that someone you met a few times in the last few weeks died, you'd be sad.
    If you heard someone across the globe died that you have no connection to, you wouldn't care.

    Now, put that into a group context. Outta the few thousand people that visit Boards, you can safely assume that someone might know an Irish victim. You can also safely assume that they won't know the chap in NZ that died from being mauled by an animal.

    At least that's my understanding.


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    #23
    Super-Rush
    Registered Users Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    My name is URL wrote: »
    I wasn't really talking about any thread in particular. Just seems odd to me that if someone were to post 'yore ma' in (for example) the DART thread; they'd be automatically banned or carded for it, yet cheap comments such as 'she must have been all over the place' or 'I'm stumped' are met with a gentle mod warning to knock it off.

    The hypocrisy isn't being shown by mods, it's been shown by users who feign concern for people in certain threads and make nasty jokes/comments about other people in separate threads.

    So its everyones fault?


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    #24
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    My name is URL wrote: »
    I wasn't really talking about any thread in particular. Just seems odd to me that if someone were to post 'yore ma' in (for example) the DART thread; they'd be automatically banned or carded for it, yet cheap comments such as 'she must have been all over the place' or 'I'm stumped' are met with a gentle mod warning to knock it off.

    The hypocrisy isn't being shown by mods, it's been shown by users who feign concern for people in certain threads and make nasty jokes/comments about other people in separate threads.

    I think in the case of the dart thread we got a large number of RP's in a short space of time and I believe, though I have not read the thread, that jokes were banned from the thread for the sake of cop on.

    I guess in retrospect the serial offenders of this kind of posting you refer to, the jokes which are just offensive and disgusting specifically would be no bloody loss.

    However I think the OP paints us in a somewhat unfair light by suggesting we have one rule for one thing and one rule for another when his own examples suggest that is not the case.

    I am not saying we're all on the same page but if you're going to call me a hypocrite back it up with some links that don't contradict themselves or your point.


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    #25
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Ares


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    I think in the case of the dart thread we got a large number of RP's in a short space of time and I believe, though I have not read the thread, that jokes were banned from the thread for the sake of cop on.

    I guess in retrospect the serial offenders of this kind of posting you refer to, the jokes which are just offensive and disgusting specifically would be no bloody loss.

    However I think the OP paints us in a somewhat unfair light by suggesting we have one rule for one thing and one rule for another when his own examples suggest that is not the case.

    I am not saying we're all on the same page but if you're going to call me a hypocrite back it up with some links that don't contradict themselves or your point.

    It clearly has. Irish examples see swift action taken, people warned as soon as moderator's are aware of the thread's.

    Chinese man killed mod issues a post saying no more jokes after two full days. The same mod who initially closed the thread within minutes of it opening due to NSFW images. Yet its only two days later that said comments are considered offensive.

    If Michael from Enniscorthy gets killed by a steamroller there is no way that thread gets off the ground. I'd be surprised if it got to twenty posts without a warning.

    With regards the pig farmer thread no mod action taken despite what could be termed offensive material.

    If Seán from Birr gets eaten on his pig farm, again there is no way in hell that jokes are gonna be allowed by the moderating team.

    One rule for one nationality, a completely different one for another.

    What I propose is that every death thread either allow puns/jokes that don't break the forum charter, some of them are very, very funny

    Or else a blanket ban for puns/jokes on death threads. Nationality shouldn't come into it.


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    #26
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Reported posts see swift action. I didn't even know the pig farmer thread existed.

    Out of curiosity, do you want to be allowed to make fun of everyone, or no one?


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    #27
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Ares


    humanji wrote: »
    Reported posts see swift action. I didn't even know the pig farmer thread existed.

    Out of curiosity, do you want to be allowed to make fun of everyone, or no one?

    I've already clarified this earlier in relation to Dr.Bollocko.

    I want either a blanket ban or none at all. I'm not in the business of making offensive comments on teh internetz but I do believe that the inconsistencies being witnessed in relation to death threads is not on and that something needs to be done about it.


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    #28
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    That doesn't answer my question. What outrages you more:

    A) Not being able to make fun of people in certain threads
    B) People being able to make fun of others in certain threads

    Which would you prefer?


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    #29
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    My problem with "abortions for some and miniature American flags for others" is that it always gets quoted out of context.


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    #30
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Ares


    humanji wrote: »
    That doesn't answer my question. What outrages you more:

    A) Not being able to make fun of people in certain threads
    B) People being able to make fun of others in certain threads

    Which would you prefer?

    I'm indifferent. Either would be nice. None would be preferable. The cowardly action whereby we have to respect the Irish that die but not the others. That's what I have an issue with.


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    #31
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Ares wrote: »
    I want either a blanket ban or none at all.
    Oh, do you?

    Also, it's not just the nationality of the victims of these tragedies - as has been pointed out, it's geographical location. If Pavel from Poland was killed on a pig farm in Portmarnock, I think you'd find we'd be pretty quick to clamp down on the tasteless jokes.


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